Why Bash The W?

[PhoenixRise]

I never blamed the W for him not leaving her for me. I never wanted or expected him to do so. If he did leave his W, I’d have wanted it to be of his own volition and due to his unhappiness in his M, not for me. I did have a lot of ill feelings about his W though simply because I felt she was not living up to the standards of being a W and therefore was at fault for him cheating on her. The standards: she didn’t keep her appearance up, she didn’t “cater” to him, she didn’t make him feel appreciated or “manly”, she didn’t know her place, she didn’t know how to treat him like a husband should be. Towards the end of our R, my ill feelings turned to animosity. Now I hated her because despite all the things I was that she wasn’t, he still was content enough to play the “happy” couple and resume their daily lives and family outings and vacations and gatherings, and vehemently deny any A was taking place in order to keep his M intact. I didn’t understand how/why she would put up with years of suspicion of him cheating on her. I thought she was weak and pathetic for allowing it, different from me because I was the one who was better than her. He cheated on her not me, and I got him to do so. She was the one in the dark being lied to. I was the “winner”, the “better” woman. I really thought she was the “lesser woman” and it upset me that she was the receiver of all the benefits as his W and he was happy with that.

 

I think Skylar is just describing how she felt while she was in the affair and these feelings are why she would have bashed the wife at the time.

 

I don't think she is saying she was right or justified in feeling this way. But it is the way she saw things at the time.

 

IMO the viewpoint she is saying she held during the affair is pretty common. It is just rare that the person who held that viewpoint will admit it.

[NotMolly]

I think Skylar is just describing how she felt while she was in the affair and these feelings are why she would have bashed the wife at the time.

 

I don't think she is saying she was right or justified in feeling this way. But it is the way she saw things at the time.

 

IMO the viewpoint she is saying she held during the affair is pretty common. It is just rare that the person who held that viewpoint will admit it.

Common she is, yes. Her post was similar to my blog-writing H's OW, and so I read a few of her other posts. She staying friends with the married man, so as far as I am concerned, she might as well be keeping up the affair.

 

I didn't say anything out of line, looking at the scheme of things.

[PhoenixRise]

Common she is, yes. Her post was similar to my blog-writing H's OW, and so I read a few of her other posts. She staying friends with the married man, so as far as I am concerned, she might as well be keeping up the affair.

 

I didn't say anything out of line, looking at the scheme of things.

 

NotMolly

 

 

I never said you were out of line. I gave my OWN interpretation of Skylar's post. That is it.

 

I understand why her post would strike a nerve if the writing style or ideas expressed remind you of your husband's OW (I am a former BS so I really do get it). But most likely, nobody currently posting here is your husband's OW

 

I saw your posts on the other forum. Saw the post from the suspected OW. Saw the blog you are referring to. I really wish you the best of luck in getting to peace and to a healthy place while dealing with a truly unfair and messed up situation.

 

 

OP Sorry for the t/j

[Brokenlady]

Aren't you sweet? I'll bet your parents are so proud. My OW is just like you. She blames me for him straying, she blames me for him staying. It's as if she thinks I have him chained down in the basement, with his wee testicles planted in the pockets of my mom jeans.

 

I don't pretend to comprehend. Thanks to my attorney, those two will have a lot to comprehend come the New Year.

 

Let me tell you something, honey. Their marriage is none of your business, even if he invited you to make it so. I'm sure a lot of girls think like you. Men will always be willing to have sex with girls like you, but they never marry them.

 

Remember girls, a lady never accepts every invitation extended to her.

 

Notmolly,

Does this mean your H finally came clean to you? Or did you get incontrovertible evidence?

[frozensprouts]

i don't think that the wife or the other woman ( or husband and other man) can ever really know what is/was going on in the realm of the other party.

 

i was one of those people who tell their wayward spouses to go if that is what will make them happy( mind you, it took a while to get to that point)...i also told his other woman that too...that they should be together if that is what they both wanted, but that is not what happened.

 

I don't really know for sure what went on between the two of them ( he has given me his side, and i have read some things from her that give me an idea of her side, and she has told me her side as well, but even so, i don't know if it's the whole picture or not), just like she couldn't ever really know what things were like between me and him. even if he was telling me what he honestly believes to be the truth about the two of them, and vise versa, it can't be the whole story.

 

i do think people lash out when they are hurt, and that's probably where the anger you see on here from time to time comes from...sometimes it's almost "easier" to be angry than hurt...at least with anger you can turn it outwards , let it out of your system and and it fades away...hurt is so often internalized and seems to last an awful lot longer....sometimes you can't put it into words and it just stays with you...this is so much worse

[Spark1111]

I never blamed the W for him not leaving her for me. I never wanted or expected him to do so. If he did leave his W, I’d have wanted it to be of his own volition and due to his unhappiness in his M, not for me. I did have a lot of ill feelings about his W though simply because I felt she was not living up to the standards of being a W and therefore was at fault for him cheating on her. The standards: she didn’t keep her appearance up, she didn’t “cater” to him, she didn’t make him feel appreciated or “manly”, she didn’t know her place, she didn’t know how to treat him like a husband should be. Towards the end of our R, my ill feelings turned to animosity. Now I hated her because despite all the things I was that she wasn’t, he still was content enough to play the “happy” couple and resume their daily lives and family outings and vacations and gatherings, and vehemently deny any A was taking place in order to keep his M intact. I didn’t understand how/why she would put up with years of suspicion of him cheating on her. I thought she was weak and pathetic for allowing it, different from me because I was the one who was better than her. He cheated on her not me, and I got him to do so. She was the one in the dark being lied to. I was the “winner”, the “better” woman. I really thought she was the “lesser woman” and it upset me that she was the receiver of all the benefits as his W and he was happy with that.

 

SB, this is incredibly honest and I am proud of you for this insight!

 

And, how do you feel now? Was she truly a lesser person as portrayed by your MM, or did you finally begin to doubt his version of events?

 

I was the BS who learned he realized she (his OW) was not the one 6 months before DDAY, but he was in too deep and did not know how to tell her the truth.....just kept stringing her along.....

 

And I called him a coward on his treatment of HER....yep, I am a venomous BS.....

[TinaniT]

I've noticed that whether the OW gets the MM to leave the M or not' date=' many OW continue to have negative feelings towards her. The typical is that the W has "no self-respect" or "only likes his paycheck".[/quote']

 

 

1. I am not sure any OW gets a MM to leave a marriage. He does or he doesn't; if it's going to be at someone's pressure there's going to be a back and forth and implosion.

 

2. Envy is an ugly emotion. If you love someone, there will be a period of jealousy at their partner - right or not, for having what you want. It passes. You hear more here from OW in the thick of it. I certainly felt and expressed more trivial little comments when I was jealous and felt the lesser priority. Not saying that I had any right to that, but it remains. Some of it is quite embarrassing. A former friend of mine years ago was involved with a MM had expressed superiority in knowing the MM's secret (transvestite) and in not looking down upon it was the MM insisted his wife would if she know, of being so trusted. She went through anger and disgust at the wife because of that, then extreme anger at the married man for staying in what he insisted was such a bad situation, and then finally distaste at herself for participating, sympathy towards the wife because she didn't get the chance to know, and disgust at the married man for not giving his wife the chance to decide, and the realization that she wasn't so much trusted as inconsequential and safe for what he was embarrassed to express. I think there is a process and anger on the OW's part happens just as naturally as it does on the BW's parts - emotions are not usually rational at their inception.

 

3. On the "leave or not" aspect, I don't think most former OW who are now married are insulting the ex. From my experience, I am defending her more often (not that I always agree with what she does but unless it was a direct impact to me, I don't need to comment.) or trying to explain her position to my husband who has a little less sympathy for her quirks now that he is not married to her - I certainly don't think it's any more common than it is for second wives in general. (A reminder or decision making factor you did not choose individually to have involved in your life can cast a less favorable light on someone than if you had met them in a neutral situation.)

 

 

 

Oh, and just saw, Pink in the Limo... I have not seen Spark be cruel to anyone. I'm not here much, but I haven't seen it. Merely sharing one's situation is not bragging or trying to rub it in. What would we communicate if no one could share their own story?

[Quiet Storm]

I think a number of reasons. 1. whether we want to or not jeolousy, because he chose her and not us.

 

I think with most MM, it is not even a choice. They have BW in wife role, and even if they regret their choice, they stick with it. OW is supplemental, and MM doesn't usually consider her to be replacement for the wife.

 

OW is in a competition that she will never win, no matter how perfect she is, or how deep his connection is to OW. MM will never see her as his wife, because that role is already filled. This is why they rarely leave, because they are not looking to replace the wife. They are only looking to meet their needs. They are not seeking to change their life.

[MyApology]

Men are completely illogical in that they seem to believe they are entitled to great sex, beautiful ornaments on the side to get out all their fantasies, and the homemaker wife, will take them back and often astonishingly easily, and this is usually the case 80% of the time. However, in 90% of the cases in which a women strays for the same reasons, their husband does not offer the wife the same courtesy and consideration, he expects of his wife if it was he cheating. The men cannot handle it, and leave the women most of the time. They seethe at the thought and never get over it. Do not understand the double standard AT ALL.

[lavendera]

Sadly 90% of the time, the MM who strays has a career, a known family life, involved in social settings/functions, a reputation to upkeep, the good husband, father, and provider. This is what keeps them begging after being found out. Hush, do not say anything, let's keep on pretending we are happy.

It is the married man lying to himself and to his wife.

These misperceptions are ingrained in their minds.

I have found most individuals respect a person more for saying, hey this is fake, I am no longer happy in this arrangement, I am going to divorce, I can still involve myself in the utmost to my children, regardless being married or not, and make a new and healthier life.

There may be a few people who will frown upon it, but most never lose and regain their reputation, are able to maintain being an active and proper parent, but also gain the freedom of making their own decisions without hiding, cheating, or lying to another in order to gain fleeting happiness.

Also, the fear of dissappointing all immediate and extended family plays a role also.

Sorry, but a woman can believe the man's pleading, crying, and begging as love, but the truth is they are saving their own ass.

 

 

And if the "truth" is that they are simply saving their own ass when they beg to keep their marriage intact, what's your guessed percentage of married men who lie to the ow in order to begin the affair in the first place?

 

I think you believe what you want to believe. A BS just hit with the discovery of an affair wants to believe that her life was not a sham and that her husband is not a huge lying ass. An ow wants to believe that she's found a guy who thinks she's all that and a bag of chips, his marriage is a sham and he's not a worthless liar.

Edited December 13, 2011 by lavendera

[Heart On]

Or are you trying to relieve some guilt for your role in deception by telling yourself that she deserves to be deceived?

 

Bingo!

 

And the triangulation continues.

 

It doesn't escape me that there are rarely MM here posting in thier own defense,but there are plenty of "fighting" Ow and Bw hitting below the belt!

 

So sad that these people create such havoc and drama between women that don't deserve to be triangulated by unentitled narcissists.

 

Since when did a known or even unknown cheater become someone worth fighting over?We need to raise the bar ladies and see them for what they truly are.Con artists with selfish agenda's and misguided entitlement issues.

 

Not poor,pitiful,misundstood victims of thier marriages that we need to defend and protect let alone be sexual void filler for!

 

Who wants that in any way shape of form?

 

I fell prey to the game and in the end,wised up to the reality that it was a no win situation from day one because I was dealing with a man without a spine or a conscience.

Edited December 13, 2011 by Heart On

[PinkInTheLimo]

I don't have a mean bone in my body, ask anyone here at LS.

 

That's not my impression, Spark. You sure talk a lot about how good and empathic you are but I just don't buy it.

You certainly have never been good and empathic towards your H's OW. I don't see how and where you were!!! Were you not very angry with her because she did not want to talk to you?

[PinkInTheLimo]

Agreed---Spark has been consistently gracious & often helpful to the OW on LS here---which; considering her backstory----speaks volumes about how NOT venomous she is.

 

I was also pretty stunned to see that statement as well.

 

I think Spark's main agenda is showing the OW that the things their MM says is not true. She keeps repeating that she stayed with her H because he wanted to, that her H and her still had sex even though he told the OW something else, and that her M is so much better now that she and her H reconciled.

And I think she hates the OW's guts.

 

I constantly wonder why she still feels the need to come here if her marriage and reconciliation are so successful. I would think that in that case one would gladly move on and leave the unhappy episode behind oneself and not feel the need to constantly scream how good everything is.

 

In my opinion, Spark's reason for being here is to rub it in to the OW. "I got him, I got him, I got him!"

[PinkInTheLimo]

So, you basically told him, "Okay... (yawn)... let me know ifyou need help packing... Oh, you have shirts in the (yawn)... dryer, don't forget them. Bye and good luck, say hi to Jennifer!"

 

That's what she pretends but she was not that detached or indifferent. Because the moment the OW contacted her H again, it was Spark who told her to back off.

I don't believe the story of Spark's H being back because she had mercy for him. I think Spark needs her H and marriage as badly as her H did and till now has difficulties accepting that her marriage has a dent in it because of the affair.

[thomasb]

Know what? With your venom and bitterness towards one of the few posters here who is consistanly sweet, helpful and truly caring is only making you look... really bad. 'nuff said'.

[bentnotbroken]

I think Spark's main agenda is showing the OW that the things their MM says is not true. She keeps repeating that she stayed with her H because he wanted to, that her H and her still had sex even though he told the OW something else, and that her M is so much better now that she and her H reconciled.

And I think she hates the OW's guts.

 

I constantly wonder why she still feels the need to come here if her marriage and reconciliation are so successful. I would think that in that case one would gladly move on and leave the unhappy episode behind oneself and not feel the need to constantly scream how good everything is.

 

In my opinion, Spark's reason for being here is to rub it in to the OW. "I got him, I got him, I got him!"

 

We are all entitled to our opinions, you are no different. But it is clear you are in the minority with your assessment of Spark. There are a number of posters here who have successfully reconciled or moved on...yet we keep coming back. I don't think many here expect a BS to love or even like the AP, but Spark has been able to act with grace in her dealings.

 

Successfully navigating past a painful experience does not mean that one never is reminded of it or even wants to forget it( I don't want to forget it because it was the catalyst for regaining my life). Painful situations don't always hold pain when dealt with properly. They are just a fact of life and part of what makes us who we are today.

 

Spark is a long way from constantly screaming about anything, meaning you only read the posts that validate your opinion and nothing more or you dismiss anything that has to do with a BS being sincere in their feelings and/or journeys. Either way the projection is all yours.

[stillafool]

Men are completely illogical in that they seem to believe they are entitled to great sex, beautiful ornaments on the side to get out all their fantasies, and the homemaker wife, will take them back and often astonishingly easily, and this is usually the case 80% of the time. However, in 90% of the cases in which a women strays for the same reasons, their husband does not offer the wife the same courtesy and consideration, he expects of his wife if it was he cheating. The men cannot handle it, and leave the women most of the time. They seethe at the thought and never get over it. Do not understand the double standard AT ALL.

 

I thought this too. However if you look at the Infidelity section I notice quite a few husbands these days refuse to let the wife go even though she cheated. In fact I have never seen so many cuckolds.

[stillafool]

The standards: she didn’t keep her appearance up, she didn’t “cater” to him, she didn’t make him feel appreciated or “manly”, she didn’t know her place, she didn’t know how to treat him like a husband should be.

 

Did you ever once blame him for his standards: Not being man enough to live up to his marriage vows, not catering to her, he didn't make her feel appreciated or "womanly" because he cheated with you, he obviously didn't know his place, nor did you know yours, he didn't know how to treat her like a wife should be treated. Did you ever blame him for that?

[freestyle]

Funny..........I thought the title of this thread was "Why Bash The Wife?"

 

NOT

 

"Why Bash Spark?"

 

 

*scratching my head*

 

I think the fact that there are OW who will also speak in Spark's defense is a testimony to the fact that she has been fair, compassionate, and helpful to posters on both sides of the fence.

[MissBee]

That's not my impression, Spark. You sure talk a lot about how good and empathic you are but I just don't buy it.

You certainly have never been good and empathic towards your H's OW. I don't see how and where you were!!! Were you not very angry with her because she did not want to talk to you?

 

So let me get this straight.....being angry with someone...angry with someone having an affair with your husband is not being good and empathetic???

 

Honestly Pink...that makes no sense. Being "good" or empathetic is not akin to being a robot and embracing those who have wronged and hurt you.

 

There are so many BS's out there who would be quick to slap an OW in the face and spit on her...and the thing is, most of society would agree with her choice to do so! So the fact that many BS's do get "license" to treat the OW like complete shyt and some don't, and even choose to have conversations with them amid all the drama...says A LOT! I think you're just trying to tear Spark down so you're reaching at ANYTHING (and yes saying she wasn't carrying over apple pies to the OW and was angry at her is definitely reaching beyond good sense)....unfortunately it's not working, as what you're saying is irrational to most and most here disagree with your assessment....but you're free to feel as you wish.

 

The only person who sounds hateful right now TBH is you.....it seems that something in Spark's story hit a nerve with you, so you're having an over reaction to it.

[MissBee]

I think Spark's main agenda is showing the OW that the things their MM says is not true. She keeps repeating that she stayed with her H because he wanted to, that her H and her still had sex even though he told the OW something else, and that her M is so much better now that she and her H reconciled.

 

And I think she hates the OW's guts.

 

I constantly wonder why she still feels the need to come here if her marriage and reconciliation are so successful. I would think that in that case one would gladly move on and leave the unhappy episode behind oneself and not feel the need to constantly scream how good everything is.

 

In my opinion, Spark's reason for being here is to rub it in to the OW. "I got him, I got him, I got him!"

 

Are you secretly the OW who was with Spark's husband? As I don't see whose face she can rub it in, where it would matter, unless it is the actual OW who didn't get her H. But I think it has been successfully rubbed in your face it seems....soooo are you THE OW?

 

Anyway.....I think most people with good sense realize that they don't know the full story when they are in an affair. Whether it is by omission or outright lies. The BS can never know fully what happened between her H and the OW and the OW cannot know what happens fully with the MM and his W. That is a fact that doesn't even have to do with lies, it's just how it is. Most here are have been delusional at one point or other but lived to see for themselves (and not by "bitter BS's shoving at them) that many a times, all is not as it seems.

 

Some act as though people here don't actually live in the real world and come here with real experiences and many of them are similar.....no one needs to brainwash you into believing your MM doesn't always tell the truth or COULD be lying. That is a simple fact that it COULD be the case and one should consider it.....so if Spark's agenda is to show how in HER case, her huband made stuff up....then what's the problem??? Do you not believe that some MM lie and some do make stuff up??? I don't get the big problem with that....unless of course you are secretly her OW....

 

Lots of people are here for different reasons. I never came to LS when I was in A....didn't feel like I needed to. I came to this side of the boards this year....long after my A has been done and over with and my exAP and I are friends...no bitterness...nothing. I have come here to share, learn and grow, as it's not only about As but understanding relationships, problematic relationships, working through and thinking through things and helping someone else who is struggling and was once I was. With that said...I do not think that just because one is here means your marriage is not reconciled. I think once an A happens it changes the marriage or you may be more cognizant of certain things...I don't think it means that you can never thoughtfully discuss it again.

Edited December 13, 2011 by MissBee

[TinaniT]

My guess is that it's hitting a nerve because Spark's story is all too common. Not to say that Spark is common!

 

It seems common amongst OW to think that if OW/MM are true love soulmates, then BS should just step aside and let true love prevail. Well, Spark did step aside, and look what happened.

 

True love prevailed.

 

I saw some of the same stuff claiming any OW who married their MM and posted here was trying to rub it in. It was ridiculous then, and it's just as ridiculous now. Sharing one's own experience is not rubbing it in. Maybe PIL can explain it better to me.

It would give me smething to do while laying here sick as a dog, anyway.

[thomasb]

My guess is that it's hitting a nerve because Spark's story is all too common. Not to say that Spark is common!

 

It seems common amongst OW to think that if OW/MM are true love soulmates, then BS should just step aside and let true love prevail. Well, Spark did step aside, and look what happened.

 

True love prevailed.

 

 

Yes I beieve it did! As it certainly did with my dear wife and myself. I would be proud to have her jump up and down screaming I got him! And my wife did the same thing as Spark. Said, "Fine... go get her. You are no longer welcome here. I refuse to have an other woman beside me in my bed!" Wanted to puke when she said that. And it took a hell of a lot of work to get back 'in her bed'!

Sounds like sour grapes, her insinuations against Spark. Obviously, no matter what she says she didn't get , not her man, but some other wives man after all. And she is very bitter and lashing out at someone who didn't even try!

[MissBee]

My guess is that it's hitting a nerve because Spark's story is all too common. Not to say that Spark is common!

 

It seems common amongst OW to think that if OW/MM are true love soulmates, then BS should just step aside and let true love prevail. Well, Spark did step aside, and look what happened.

 

True love prevailed.

 

Perhaps that is the case....

 

Pink seems to be bothered that Spark's husband chose to be with her and that he lied to the OW and that seems to be the things she keeps bringing up...so maybe that is what bothers her, those possibilities.

 

Ever person...BS, W, MM, OW, OM, Single Person....should be smart and aware of ALL possibilities in a situation....even the possibilities you don't like! It shouldn't ruin your life to consider that your married, cheating, boyfriend/girlfriend possibly lies to you too....at least CONSIDER it with due diligence...and if after much consideration and observation it really seems not to be the case....then kudos for you. I do believe it may be possible that a MP doesn't lie through and through to the AP....but I also know that many, many, do...big, little, white, huge, small lies....those who are so against this fact that happens everyday need a reality check. To immediately dismiss it or want to claw someone's eyes out for suggesting it shows that you're just adamant about living in denial of the possibilities and just want to believe only the good at all cost. But sadly....whether or not you acknowledge negative possibilities doesn't make them any less true.

[skylarblue]

In address to NotMolly and as PhoenixRise pointed out, I was describing my feelings towards MM’s W as they were when I was in the A. I do not harbor those same feelings now. Sorry NotMolly but I was not the OW that your H was sleeping with as you are not the W that I hated. However, I can understand your disdain as it is BS like you that make me revert to the thought “glad your H f*cked around on you”.

 

Spark, I don’t feel MM’s W is the lesser woman anymore. My thoughts of her are she is a woman, a W, simply trying to do her best by her H, M and family. MM’s comments, though quite disparaging, were not the main influence of my perception of her. I’d already had her (as well as all other BSs) tagged long before I even knew a thing about her as a physically unappealing woman who didn’t know how to treat/keep her man. A woman who started off as one person and then changed not long after the ring and/or children into something the H didn’t deserve, desire, or want. MM’s W is not perfect, as no one is, but I believe she tries her best to be a good W and mother.

 

And no, I didn’t blame MM for cheating on his W. No, I don’t hold the same expectations for him as her. I admit to having somewhat archaic/traditional/unrealistic views of M and H/W roles that are quite unfair to the W, and I don’t hold the H to the same standards. I felt MM lived up to his part as the protector, provider, and father. He was a good H. He just made a bad decision.

 

BTW, Spark seems to be a lovely person. The type of person that I try not to believe MM’s W was because I hate to feel like I helped to destroyed such a good heart.