Why Bash The W?

[Brokenlady]

Caring about appearance is lower than cheating in your book and makes a person an abusive witch? Oh, ok! Must depend on one's definition of abuse. :lmao:LOL, easy. Because ladies with self respect don't cheat or date men who do.

 

Deluded much? No, she's an abusive witch because she's abusive to her children, her xh, and anyone else she can take advantage of. Not that I need to justify it to you.

[Spark1111]

what i honestly don't get is the 180 that people in affairs do when the affair ends and the married person chooses to stay with their spouse....all of a sudden, the married man is a jerk and his wife is a fool for choosing to stay with him... a guy who cheats. i wonder if the married guy would still be a jerk if he chose to stay with his affair partner rather than his spouse...would that make the affair partner a fool for choosing to be with a guy who cheats?

 

i figure that a lot of the nasty words are because of hurt more than anger. it hurts to be lied to...it hurts to invest your much time and emotion in a relationship and have it not work out, to feel that your love was rejected...that is true no matter whether you are the spouse or the affair partner if you are not he one the married guy chooses to be with

 

And that unspoken competition in a triangle is what KEEPS you focused on the differences, not the similiarities between the BS and OW.

 

Hopefully, with time and healing, you re-focus on yourself and your part in the triangle.

[stillafool]

I was thinking more about this thread and had a few more thoughts.

 

Competition between the ow vs the bs over the mm. When we love someone we usually feel a certain amount of jealousy, possessiveness and yes ownership of the relationship we "think" we have with that person. A triangular relationship automatically sets up that competition between the two women and who benefits, well the mm of course. It's quite silly in hindsight because sometimes both of the women wise up and realize he wasn't all that and a bag of chips anyway and if they are smart, both of them send him on his way, ALONE. The mm who cheats is no prize for either woman.

 

I hear what you are saying. However, I think if the people aren't married I can see where one would view it as competition because by not being married means he or she hasn't chosen a spouse yet so there is still a chance for marriage. If you are getting into a relationship with a married person it would seem you would already know, going in, that you will be second.

[stillafool]

Yes. That's different when they start off the affair with a lie.

[MyApology]

I am not sure how I feel about BS. I often wonder if she stayed with him all these years, with ill intent on her side, a need to control him, his behavoir, his being. She knows he had a couple of affairs and after finding out those facts decided to have children with this man anyway. Is it love or a need for control of a man. A need to control his love, heis needs, and wants.

I let him know early on, that if he likes this type of behavoir, he pursued the wrong girl, I would never place myself in the position to force a man to love me, force him to do as I wish. I will, however, hint at my expectations and needs, and if he takes the initiuative to do so, it is his choice, and if he decides not to, then I have the choice to either except his behavoir or leave it behind.

So far, I have been surprised how much he has showed concern to my expectations, some in which he was clearly avoiding in the beginning.

[MyApology]

Well I guess if you are looking at it from that stance which I do understand, I stay because of the intense chemistry and not sure exactly what I want. I would be able to see your point if I continued to date men in the future who are serial cheaters. I would not. What I am attempting to figure out is if he is trully unhappy and seeks outside the marriage from having that perspective. Why she stays and acts like a drill sargeant, why a man or woman would put up with that on either side. Might be that they are both off their knocker. Maybe I am. I do not know, that is what I am here to figure out.

[stillafool]

I am not sure how I feel about BS. I often wonder if she stayed with him all these years, with ill intent on her side, a need to control him, his behavoir, his being. She knows he had a couple of affairs and after finding out those facts decided to have children with this man anyway. Is it love or a need for control of a man. A need to control his love, heis needs, and wants.

I let him know early on, that if he likes this type of behavoir, he pursued the wrong girl, I would never place myself in the position to force a man to love me, force him to do as I wish. I will, however, hint at my expectations and needs, and if he takes the initiuative to do so, it is his choice, and if he decides not to, then I have the choice to either except his behavoir or leave it behind.

So far, I have been surprised how much he has showed concern to my expectations, some in which he was clearly avoiding in the beginning.

 

 

I doubt if she held a gun to his head to make him marry her. It seems if she constantly had him on the clock and managing his time why does he still have time to have an affair. If she is controling his money how can he spend money taking you out? How do you know her shrieking voice over the phone isn't because he has lied to her where he is (with you) and her intuition is telling her different. It seems to me that he is lying to her and lying to you too. They may have incredible sex for all you know and still he likes to get some on the side. I think you need to stop putting him on a pedestal and really take a good look at the liar you spend your time with.

[Brokenlady]

No, dear. I'm not deluded, and I don't have step-kids that hate me for good reason.

 

Really? If rather have a stepchild who is going to grow up and realize who cares for her and who manipulates her than a H who cheats on me for good reason.

[bentnotbroken]

Really? If rather have a stepchild who is going to grow up and realize who cares for her and who manipulates her than a H who cheats on me for good reason.

 

 

Careful he doesn't find a good reason for you too.

[lavendera]

You need only to spend a few minutes on an infidelity site filled with bw whose stories repeat time and again. When the married man returns to reconcile his marriage after being caught he is begging, he is pleading, he is on his best behavior and he is no doubt lying up a storm and trying to minimize the affair. It may take weeks, months or years before the whole truth finally trickles out. The wives love their husbands, that is why they stay. They were no doubt blind-sided with the news of this affair and although the first thought might be to kick the liar to the curb, when he is begging for forgiveness, it's a little hard not to take a second look and wonder if it can be saved. It would be a perfect opportunity for the mm to say he's sorry and go running to the ow to live in their perfect little world, but rarely does that happen. If he wanted to be with you, he would be. It has nothing to do with the wife wanting power. That's bizarre.

 

And regarding the mute, unaffected mm while the bw and ow battle it out, think again. He only appears mute to the ow who doesn't hear from him because he has realized she is not worth the end of his marriage. He is hardly mute in the home where he is busy trying to convince a devastated wife that he is sorry and will never hurt her again. He has the wrath of the wife. If she's harassing the ow in any way shape or form, guarantee that the mm's life is far from calm and pretty. Life is hell after a d-day. If he's refused to talk and listen at home, then he'll probably be out there lying and cheating within a year.

[MyApology]

You need only to spend a few minutes on an infidelity site filled with bw whose stories repeat time and again. When the married man returns to reconcile his marriage after being caught he is begging, he is pleading, he is on his best behavior and he is no doubt lying up a storm and trying to minimize the affair. It may take weeks, months or years before the whole truth finally trickles out. The wives love their husbands, that is why they stay. They were no doubt blind-sided with the news of this affair and although the first thought might be to kick the liar to the curb, when he is begging for forgiveness, it's a little hard not to take a second look and wonder if it can be saved. It would be a perfect opportunity for the mm to say he's sorry and go running to the ow to live in their perfect little world, but rarely does that happen. If he wanted to be with you, he would be. It has nothing to do with the wife wanting power. That's bizarre.

 

And regarding the mute, unaffected mm while the bw and ow battle it out, think again. He only appears mute to the ow who doesn't hear from him because he has realized she is not worth the end of his marriage. He is hardly mute in the home where he is busy trying to convince a devastated wife that he is sorry and will never hurt her again. He has the wrath of the wife. If she's harassing the ow in any way shape or form, guarantee that the mm's life is far from calm and pretty. Life is hell after a d-day. If he's refused to talk and listen at home, then he'll probably be out there lying and cheating within a year.

 

 

Sadly 90% of the time, the MM who strays has a career, a known family life, involved in social settings/functions, a reputation to upkeep, the good husband, father, and provider. This is what keeps them begging after being found out. Hush, do not say anything, let's keep on pretending we are happy.

It is the married man lying to himself and to his wife.

These misperceptions are ingrained in their minds.

I have found most individuals respect a person more for saying, hey this is fake, I am no longer happy in this arrangement, I am going to divorce, I can still involve myself in the utmost to my children, regardless being married or not, and make a new and healthier life.

There may be a few people who will frown upon it, but most never lose and regain their reputation, are able to maintain being an active and proper parent, but also gain the freedom of making their own decisions without hiding, cheating, or lying to another in order to gain fleeting happiness.

Also, the fear of dissappointing all immediate and extended family plays a role also.

Sorry, but a woman can believe the man's pleading, crying, and begging as love, but the truth is they are saving their own ass.

[donnamaybe]

Sadly 90% of the time, the MM who strays has a career, a known family life, involved in social settings/functions, a reputation to upkeep, the good husband, father, and provider. This is what keeps them begging after being found out. Hush, do not say anything, let's keep on pretending we are happy.

It is the married man lying to himself and to his wife.

These misperceptions are ingrained in their minds.

I have found most individuals respect a person more for saying, hey this is fake, I am no longer happy in this arrangement, I am going to divorce, I can still involve myself in the utmost to my children, regardless being married or not, and make a new and healthier life.

There may be a few people who will frown upon it, but most never lose and regain their reputation, are able to maintain being an active and proper parent, but also gain the freedom of making their own decisions without hiding, cheating, or lying to another in order to gain fleeting happiness.

Also, the fear of dissappointing all immediate and extended family plays a role also.

Sorry, but a woman can believe the man's pleading, crying, and begging as love, but the truth is they are saving their own ass.

Just because a man wants a little on the side does not mean he doesn't love his wife. In fact, there are several folks in this forum who have reconciled after an A. I would love to see anyone try to tell them their M is a sham.

[Heart On]

I've just never understood why it becomes a woman vs. woman scenario.

You've got a betrayed wife, and an OW- often both being misled by the MM- yet it seems HE is often exempt from contempt.

 

I know it's not always this way- but it often is. The wife blames the affair partner, and the affair partner blames the wife... Does the MM have any accountability in the affair?

 

It doesn't matter if he's just enjoying both women, staying in a marriage that he isn't happy with because of certain obligations, or stringing along another woman for his own personal satisfaction... He is accountable for his choices and actions as much as everyone else- regardless of his motivations.

 

I initially hated the woman my H had an affair with- without having had met her- I hated the "notion" of her... However, when it came down to it, he made the choices he made knowing it was unfair to both of us.

 

I think some of it comes from anger, anger at themselves, anger at the mm, yes even sometimes anger at the wife although if the ow is merely angry at the wife because he stayed married, then it's unjustified. So I say a lot of it is misplaced anger. The mm is where the majority of it should belong, after all he is one who lied and played two women at the same time.

 

'Misplaced' is an understatement.

 

 

I think these posts are right on the money and I think the animosity between OW and BW's stems from the continuation of the triangulation that the MM set up from the start.If he uses his manipulation tactics efficiently,he can set up a situation wherein he can deflect responsibility and wind up with the woman who considers herself the "winner" of his characterless/conscienceless self! Obviously they are good at what they do if either woman can see them as a worthy partner considering the circumstances!

 

It's too bad both women don't realize that the culprit is the MM and both make it perfectly clear by holding HIM 100% accountable by both parties leaving him in the dust!

 

It's a shame that they always "win" by keeping one or the other of the women in thier clutches when they don't deserve either of them.

 

IMO,if not for either woman's Betrayal Bond/Love Addiction to these men,they would never be considered a great catch,let alone continue to consider these types to be worth sacrificing our morals,hearts or bodies for! They are FAR from worthy no matter how much we subconsciously rationalize via Cognitive Dissonance.

 

http://www.sexhelp.com/am-i-a-sex-addict/betrayal-bond-index

 

I know for a FACT that my xMM's wife was not the problem.But that's not what I was lead to believe from day one! I found that out the hard way when he turned on me too!

 

The man I was groomed by had serious issues,(Narcissism)and he projected them all onto his wife to justify luring me into his web of deciept and when push came to shove,he pulled the same damn thing on me so he could back peddle back into the very marriage he pity ployed me about!

 

Most of these men are Confidence Artists that keep both women feeling as though they are competing for the boobie prize!

 

I couldn't hate a woman who I helped hurt! Even though to this day,she has no clue of my past existance in her life because he refused to come clean and threatened me if I outted him to anyone.That would be ludacrious!

 

Who I despise is him.She was just another one of his innocent bystanders.

 

If anything,I should hate myself for falling for his pity ploys and trying to "save" him from her,when in reality,she's the one who needed saving from him!

 

I am the winner for NOT winding up with a lying, cheating, manipulator!~

Edited December 12, 2011 by Heart On

[beenburned]

Heart On,

Great post!

 

Unfortunately for this BW, she will never know the truth about her deceiteful H, unless there is a D-Day or the OW chooses to tell her.

 

Most women would never choose to live with a serial cheater.

 

This is why I just can't understand why some OW that know the MM's past history, still choose to enter into an affair with him ,and further more want him to marry them.

[MyApology]

Heart On,

Great post!

 

Unfortunately for this BW, she will never know the truth about her deceiteful H, unless there is a D-Day or the OW chooses to tell her.

 

Most women would never choose to live with a serial cheater.

 

This is why I just can't understand why some OW that know the MM's past history, still choose to enter into an affair with him ,and further more want him to marry them.

 

Sorry, but you are assuming wrong, he has already been outed by two other women to his wife, they contacted her, and this was before she decided to have children with him. There comes a point when a person needs to take responsibility for their own unhappiness and circumstances.

[stillafool]

Sorry, but you are assuming wrong, he has already been outed by two other women to his wife, they contacted her, and this was before she decided to have children with him. There comes a point when a person needs to take responsibility for their own unhappiness and circumstances.

 

Have you told him to take responsibility for his own unhappiness and circumstance? If he is so unhappy with his wife who controls all his time and money, why hasn't he left? BTW she is doing a horrible job controling this man because he seems completely out of control to me.

[donnamaybe]

Sorry, but you are assuming wrong, he has already been outed by two other women to his wife, they contacted her, and this was before she decided to have children with him. There comes a point when a person needs to take responsibility for their own unhappiness and circumstances.

So your personal A story is this 90% you talk about who really hate their marriages and don't love their wives but stay with them? It may FEEL like 90% because that's what's going on in your case (or at least he tells you that), but I doubt that 90% of cheaters don't honestly love their spouse. They may not be showing it with the cheating, but when they realize what they stand to lose, most of them are jarred to their senses. Just read all the stories of reconciled M's in this forum.

[Heart On]

Sorry, but you are assuming wrong, he has already been outed by two other women to his wife, they contacted her, and this was before she decided to have children with him. There comes a point when a person needs to take responsibility for their own unhappiness and circumstances.

 

The same could be said for him! I mean really! 2 other women have outted him,and that's only the ones who weren't betrayal bonded to him,and yet you continue to fall for his BS? Wow!~

 

Talk about the writing being on the wall! If you ask why his wife stays with him,then why not ask why YOU stay with him?She at least is MARRIED to that serial cheater and probably has alot to lose.What do you have to lose by walking away? Alot more than you have to gain!

 

Since you are only a few months in,why not walk away and let him deal with his own issues,marital and personal and not sit on the sidelines and support this guys lack of conscience! Don't you see that even when his wife forgives him,he continues to cheat on her? What a total SOB!

 

What does that say about him,let alone you?

 

Let him take personal responsibility for his own "unhappiness and circumstances" instead of being just the next women in line to fall for his pity ploys! Why are you even considering defending a man who has cheated multiple times in the past? That is a HUGE red flag.If his wife chooses to stay with him that's her business,but why are you considering being his sexual go to woman,knowing that he will simply discard you when you begin to want more than he is willing to give you? Ask him what happened to the other women he used up and he will simply lie as all good cheaters do!

 

If a man wants a divorce,he get's one.If a man wants to keep his image,kids,money,life and wife and have a OW on the side,he cheats.

Pretty simple don't you agree?

 

Cheating means to illegitimately gain something you didn't earn.

 

In my book,that mean's both women get the short end of the stick and neither woman gains anything but a slap in the face or a stab in the back!

[MyApology]

So your personal A story is this 90% you talk about who really hate their marriages and don't love their wives but stay with them? It may FEEL like 90% because that's what's going on in your case (or at least he tells you that), but I doubt that 90% of cheaters don't honestly love their spouse. They may not be showing it with the cheating, but when they realize what they stand to lose, most of them are jarred to their senses. Just read all the stories of reconciled M's in this forum.

 

I am placing the 90% on those men who continue to seek outside the marriage for long term and multiple committments other than their marriage partner. Yes there are many oops bad move, too much to drink, mid life crisis, biggest mistake of my life, ONS or short term affair in which the men find the grass is not greener on the other side and love their wives. A man who continues to cheat on his wife, no, I do not believe there is love for the wife.

I was in a LTR in which the man was physically abusive, and claimed he loved me, and was sorry, well, it was my responsibility to take charge of my life and make decisions based on his treatment of me. He was leaving for a family funeral he had to go to, and before he left, he turned and asked in a sad questioning tone, you are going to leave me, aren't you. I said no, and hugged him. As soon as he was out the door, I called had the locks changed, a huge alarm system placed, his stuff hauled to storage, and a restraining order placed which stated he could not come near me.

My responsibility was to myself and to not have children with a man who could hurt me and them. My choices are different than hers. If he was serial cheating on me, no, I would not make the decision to put kids in the situation.

Again this is their dysfunction, not mine. I am not looking for a husband out of this man. Yes, he deployed the, "our marriage is done, it is horrible, we fight on a continuous basis, there is no love left, just the children's well being, my foot is way out the door." sigh

[woinlove]

I am placing the 90% on those men who continue to seek outside the marriage for long term and multiple committments other than their marriage partner. Yes there are many oops bad move, too much to drink, mid life crisis, biggest mistake of my life, ONS or short term affair in which the men find the grass is not greener on the other side and love their wives. A man who continues to cheat on his wife, no, I do not believe there is love for the wife.

I was in a LTR in which the man was physically abusive, and claimed he loved me, and was sorry, well, it was my responsibility to take charge of my life and make decisions based on his treatment of me. He was leaving for a family funeral he had to go to, and before he left, he turned and asked in a sad questioning tone, you are going to leave me, aren't you. I said no, and hugged him. As soon as he was out the door, I called had the locks changed, a huge alarm system placed, his stuff hauled to storage, and a restraining order placed which stated he could not come near me.

My responsibility was to myself and to not have children with a man who could hurt me and them. My choices are different than hers. If he was serial cheating on me, no, I would not make the decision to put kids in the situation.

Again this is their dysfunction, not mine. I am not looking for a husband out of this man. Yes, he deployed the, "our marriage is done, it is horrible, we fight on a continuous basis, there is no love left, just the children's well being, my foot is way out the door." sigh

 

I don't think it is very useful to try to analyze or quantify MM's love for his W. Different people have a different capacity for love and many serial cheaters have a limited capacity for really loving others. They may love their W as much as they are capable of loving anyone, which could be not very much.

 

As to this particular MM's BW, who knows? It is difficult to know what she knew and believed when they chose to have children together. You describe MM as if he is a charmer and he may well have convinced his BW that he was going to be a loving and devoted H and father. Or maybe their agreement was something else entirely. More relevant to you is what do you want and what role do you want this MM to play in your future?

[donnamaybe]

I am placing the 90% on those men who continue to seek outside the marriage for long term and multiple committments other than their marriage partner. Yes there are many oops bad move, too much to drink, mid life crisis, biggest mistake of my life, ONS or short term affair in which the men find the grass is not greener on the other side and love their wives. A man who continues to cheat on his wife, no, I do not believe there is love for the wife.

I was in a LTR in which the man was physically abusive, and claimed he loved me, and was sorry, well, it was my responsibility to take charge of my life and make decisions based on his treatment of me. He was leaving for a family funeral he had to go to, and before he left, he turned and asked in a sad questioning tone, you are going to leave me, aren't you. I said no, and hugged him. As soon as he was out the door, I called had the locks changed, a huge alarm system placed, his stuff hauled to storage, and a restraining order placed which stated he could not come near me.

My responsibility was to myself and to not have children with a man who could hurt me and them. My choices are different than hers. If he was serial cheating on me, no, I would not make the decision to put kids in the situation.

Again this is their dysfunction, not mine. I am not looking for a husband out of this man. Yes, he deployed the, "our marriage is done, it is horrible, we fight on a continuous basis, there is no love left, just the children's well being, my foot is way out the door." sigh

And you honestly think that 90% of people who are cheating don't love their spouse? I disagree. And just because the guy said he doesn't love his wife and the M is over you believed him? A cheater? You believed words coming out of THAT mouth?

[Spark1111]

I am placing the 90% on those men who continue to seek outside the marriage for long term and multiple committments other than their marriage partner. Yes there are many oops bad move, too much to drink, mid life crisis, biggest mistake of my life, ONS or short term affair in which the men find the grass is not greener on the other side and love their wives. A man who continues to cheat on his wife, no, I do not believe there is love for the wife.

I was in a LTR in which the man was physically abusive, and claimed he loved me, and was sorry, well, it was my responsibility to take charge of my life and make decisions based on his treatment of me. He was leaving for a family funeral he had to go to, and before he left, he turned and asked in a sad questioning tone, you are going to leave me, aren't you. I said no, and hugged him. As soon as he was out the door, I called had the locks changed, a huge alarm system placed, his stuff hauled to storage, and a restraining order placed which stated he could not come near me.

My responsibility was to myself and to not have children with a man who could hurt me and them. My choices are different than hers. If he was serial cheating on me, no, I would not make the decision to put kids in the situation.

Again this is their dysfunction, not mine. I am not looking for a husband out of this man. Yes, he deployed the, "our marriage is done, it is horrible, we fight on a continuous basis, there is no love left, just the children's well being, my foot is way out the door." sigh

 

Perhaps the bigger question to ask is NOT why SHE stays......

 

It is WHY DOES HE STAY? And why is that okay with you?

 

What is the payoff to him for staying in such a loveless marriage with a control freak who keeps him on such a short leash?

 

For HOW MANY years now?

 

iF YOU BUY into his scenario that he is a great dad, provider, blah, blah, blah...then on some level he has won you over by appealing to your empathy and you will keep your relationship a secret.

 

He has also insured you will not rat him out to the wife because you MUST protect his reputation at all costs.

 

He has also implied that you are the better woman; the only one who can rescue him from his sad, lonely life and if only.....sigh.... How empowering that is for your ego!

 

Do yourself a favor. Try NOT to have sex with him for the next two months. See what he does......

 

I bet he is still in his loveless marriage seeking his next OW so he can continue to empower himself by adolescently rebelling against his mean and controlling mommy (wife).

[donnamaybe]

Perhaps the bigger question to ask is NOT why SHE stays......

 

It is WHY DOES HE STAY? And why is that okay with you?

 

What is the payoff to him for staying in such a loveless marriage with a control freak who keeps him on such a short leash?

 

For HOW MANY years now?

 

iF YOU BUY into his scenario that he is a great dad, provider, blah, blah, blah...then on some level he has won you over by appealing to your empathy and you will keep your relationship a secret.

 

He has also insured you will not rat him out to the wife because you MUST protect his reputation at all costs.

 

He has also implied that you are the better woman; the only one who can rescue him from his sad, lonely life and if only.....sigh.... How empowering that is for your ego!

 

Do yourself a favor. Try NOT to have sex with him for the next two months. See what he does......

 

I bet he is still in his loveless marriage seeking his next OW so he can continue to empower himself by adolescently rebelling against his mean and controlling mommy (wife).

Nailed it Spark!

[MyApology]

I don't think it is very useful to try to analyze or quantify MM's love for his W. Different people have a different capacity for love and many serial cheaters have a limited capacity for really loving others. They may love their W as much as they are capable of loving anyone, which could be not very much.

 

As to this particular MM's BW, who knows? It is difficult to know what she knew and believed when they chose to have children together. You describe MM as if he is a charmer and he may well have convinced his BW that he was going to be a loving and devoted H and father. Or maybe their agreement was something else entirely. More relevant to you is what do you want and what role do you want this MM to play in your future?

 

 

I do not blame the wife, but charm is no excuse. I believe people would quit feeling sorry for someone if they continued to invite the same thief over, again and again, only to have there possessions stolen, and then being in shock that they were robbed.

I also do not expect any sympathy for my role in this regardless the outcome.

[MyApology]

Perhaps the bigger question to ask is NOT why SHE stays......

 

It is WHY DOES HE STAY? And why is that okay with you?

 

What is the payoff to him for staying in such a loveless marriage with a control freak who keeps him on such a short leash?

 

For HOW MANY years now?

 

iF YOU BUY into his scenario that he is a great dad, provider, blah, blah, blah...then on some level he has won you over by appealing to your empathy and you will keep your relationship a secret.

 

He has also insured you will not rat him out to the wife because you MUST protect his reputation at all costs.

 

He has also implied that you are the better woman; the only one who can rescue him from his sad, lonely life and if only.....sigh.... How empowering that is for your ego!

 

Do yourself a favor. Try NOT to have sex with him for the next two months. See what he does......

 

I bet he is still in his loveless marriage seeking his next OW so he can continue to empower himself by adolescently rebelling against his mean and controlling mommy (wife).

 

I do not buy into anything, that is why I laughed when he was mentioning rules, and then was going on and on how I was too good for this, and I was yes, I am, you are by your own words, stuck in your marriage, I am free, and he asked if it was that easy for me, and I replied yes, there are a billion available handsome fish in the sea. He was caught off gaurd and seemed genuinely hurt by this. But it is true.

Yes he can go find someone else, his choice, and he knows that it will be the complete end of us.

Yes it is an adolescent rebelling against the dysfunctional sea of enabling yet controlling mean mommy. What a turn off.