jobaba Posted December 9, 2011 Posted December 9, 2011 (edited) So, LS has brought to my attention another 'problem' for men (and some women too) that has been typical of my life and probably more of my friends than have admitted to me. The friendzone. This shouldn't be a problem for me anymore as I refuse to end up in this spot again, but... I have been friendzoned by a number of women who I have 'truly' been friends with. It hasn't been that many now that I count it down. In each case, I didn't have an initially significant attraction. In each case, I spent a ridiculous amount of time one on one with that person, over 200 hours easy. In each case, we shared some really private stuff and spent at least a night together platonically. And in each case, it was over a year before I fell hard and 'confessed my feelings' in different ways each time. So, the question is, "Why is it the other person doesn't feel the same way?" Are they just cold, callous, and shallow? When you think about how much time men and women spend alone on a platonic basis, it's not much. Me and my current female friends rarely hang out one on one. So, if you spend so much time together, the feeling should naturally be mutual. But yet, I've heard some women here say they've friendzoned between 10 to 30 guys. How could a bond be so one-sided? Is it because we tend to 'fall' for people who are too physically attractive for us? Maybe, each of the women in question is fairly attractive depending on whom you ask. But I've been able to date women just as attractive as those who have friendzoned me (showed friends pictures). I was discussing with another female friend (whom I didn't spend a lot of time with or pursue) a long time ago my approach to women at the time. I said, "I'm not very shallow, so I get to be friends with them first. That way, not only will I get to really know her, but I'll have a better chance." To which she replied, "But if she thinks of you as friend, you'll always be a friend." I thought that response was narrow and didn't believe most women could think that way. But now, in retrospect, I was stupid not to listen. This is more of a 'wonder why' than an advice question. I'm pretty sure I know how to stay out of the friendzone from now on, I'm just still not sure why the other person never reciprocates. Edited December 9, 2011 by jobaba
counterman Posted December 9, 2011 Posted December 9, 2011 Many of my female friends who have friend-zoned guys have said they were simply not attracted to them, no matter how much time they've spent with them and how much they've shared in their friendship. As for myself, I was getting really close to one of my girl friends months ago. We were becoming better friends and I found that my attraction for her grew; she is a genuinely good person. However, I knew she was not attracted to me, so it was never going to work out if I had decided to go for something more. When she met her current boyfriend and they started going out, she put no effort into our friendship; it was as though the friendship we had didn't matter. I wasn't hurt, I knew it was going to happen, so I walked away. We don't speak anymore unless we bump into each other. I guess it's the same reason why there are some girls who are interested in me I only see as friends. I'm just simply not attracted to them. Also, as your friend said, if a girl think you're a friend, you'll always be a friend. But I won't say always, I would say most likely always. I say this because some of my friends have ended up together. I've tried to be friends with girls I were physically attracted to but it just...doesn't work. The last time I tried, it got really messy. So I'll stick to dating girls I'm attracted to and being friends with girls I'm not attracted to. When I say friends, I mean people I would hang out with regularly outside of work, uni and other commitments.
Oxy Moronovich Posted December 9, 2011 Posted December 9, 2011 Women only want to be friends as a confidence booster or for a shoulder to cry on or for a dude to take advantage of. Friendzoned is a territory hard to deal with. Usually, most guys just ditch it. The only way to elevate from a friend to a boyfriend is to increase your status. A dude I know was friendzoned by two different women who didn't know each other. One of the women is a bank teller. The other woman is a waitress. They both treated him like nothing more then a friend when he worked odd jobs through college. Recently, he got a job at a large corporation. He makes significantly more than both of them combined. Now they are all over him like butter on toast.
lululucy Posted December 9, 2011 Posted December 9, 2011 If I'm attracted to a guy, I know it instantly. And if we became friends and it was months or a year before he made any sort of move.. I would have LONG ago decided he wasn't going to and gotten over it. I don't think there's a problem with becoming friends with someone before you ask them out but try two or three weeks, not two or three months. A woman isn't going to wait around for that long. One of my best-best-best friends is of course an exception to this rule. Not with me, as he and I have never had any sort of attraction (minus when we met in grade nine ha) but with one of his other close girl friends. They've been incredibly close for nine years and he and I started talking about what a problem it was that he was in love with her about a year ago. He didn't know what to do, I obviously told him to go for it but coached him on pace and how to say things etc -- he made the big move six months ago and they've been going out ever since, and plan to get married within six months. Not to give you false hope of course, this is the only situation I have EVER seen being friends for years first ever work.
ThaWholigan Posted December 9, 2011 Posted December 9, 2011 Women only want to be friends with you if you failed in sufficiently attracting them. They might like your personality and wouldn't mind hanging out with you, but they certainly won't sex you. When you start to display attractive behaviors unconsciously, you find that often they change their minds without you even realizing. This happened to me, however I wasn't able to sustain it, and I blew it.
Necromancer Posted December 9, 2011 Posted December 9, 2011 I Believe that there is no "Zone",either woman likes you in romantic way or she doesn't. I have few female friends that i like.....but i would never sleep with them,it not because they felt in some magic zone...its just because i like them as persons but i am not attracted to them,we CAN´T be attracted to everyone. Sometimes i see some loser guy with a hot female friend,we can´t say he felt in the friend zone because he didn't show romantic interest at the start. he just never really had a chance in the first place,but she likes him as a person. There is one thing that we can´t do....we can´t change girls mind,if girl hates you its impossible to make her like you. I think what she meant was if girl is not attracted to you.....then you can´t change that!
carhill Posted December 9, 2011 Posted December 9, 2011 So, the question is, "Why is it the other person doesn't feel the same way?" No two people feel exactly the same way. That's a definition of the human condition. People do occasionally feel close enough the same to have relations, but even that is transitory, witnessing the flux of marriage, LTR's, friendships and associations throughout one's life. You can't control how she feels about you. You can only control how you process your own feelings. I have this little test now that I apply to female 'friends'. Would I hang out with them as much as I do with my male best friends and why? What do they offer me that is valuable enough to justify my time and energy and love? If that answer isn't healthy, I discontinue. Overwhelmingly, in the past, the answer has been that I made poor choices and equated their letting me hang out with them and letting me love them as 'friendship'. Once I applied the male best friend test, the answer was plain as day. What was happening was my sexual and/or emotional attraction was skewing my sense of relationship/friendship balance. The test clarifies that. OP, I don't know how old you are, but from my perspective at 52 I've accepted that I'll never understand why women do, think or feel anything. I can postulate and speculate, but that's generally for entertainment and a pretty worthless pursuit. Just live life within your boundaries of health and what happens, happens.
Author jobaba Posted December 9, 2011 Author Posted December 9, 2011 If I'm attracted to a guy, I know it instantly. Depressing way to look at human relations, but I'm going to join the crowd... No sense in getting to know a woman when she's thinking from the second she's met me, "Ugh, he's ugly. I'd never have sex with him in this lifetime." Thanks for the nugget of cold, hard truth.
somedude81 Posted December 9, 2011 Posted December 9, 2011 From my experience, it's because women don't fall for men in the same way that a man can fall for a woman. If the woman isn't attracted to the guy right away, then she never will be. While guys don't work that way at all. I have no idea why women are like this, and it makes the friends first thing impossible.
Oxy Moronovich Posted December 9, 2011 Posted December 9, 2011 If I'm attracted to a guy, I know it instantly. No sense in getting to know a woman when she's thinking from the second she's met me, "Ugh, he's ugly. I'd never have sex with him in this lifetime." If the woman isn't attracted to the guy right away, then she never will be. While guys don't work that way at all. I disagree with all these quotes 100 percent. There are so many cases where women change their minds about men after the first, second, or even third impression. I've met so many women who didn't like me at first only to warm up to me later. Perhaps my initial approach scared them off, perhaps it was a bad day or pms, perhaps I dressed in a way they didn't like, perhaps they were too busy to think about men, perhaps the day we first met she was going through personal problems, etc. Whatever the case, women were uninterested in me in the beginning have been known to warm up to me the second time around. This is also the case with many men. I've read many threads on loveshack where women say the men they are currently with didn't appeal to them much when they were first with them. There isn't one woman on this planet who knows she likes a guy instantly and never changes her mind. Anyone who says otherwise either doesn't know women or is lying. If women knew whether she liked a guy on the first meeting, there wouldn't be so many single mothers or women in abusive relationships. There wouldn't be so many women bitter over their ex if a woman could tell if a guy is right for her upon a first impression.
ThaWholigan Posted December 9, 2011 Posted December 9, 2011 I disagree with all these quotes 100 percent. There are so many cases where women change their minds about men after the first, second, or even third impression. I've met so many women who didn't like me at first only to warm up to me later. Perhaps my initial approach scared them off, perhaps it was a bad day or pms, perhaps I dressed in a way they didn't like, perhaps they were too busy to think about men, perhaps the day we first met she was going through personal problems, etc. Whatever the case, women were uninterested in me in the beginning have been known to warm up to me the second time around. This is also the case with many men. I've read many threads on loveshack where women say the men they are currently with didn't appeal to them much when they were first with them. There isn't one woman on this planet who knows she likes a guy instantly and never changes her mind. Anyone who says otherwise either doesn't know women or is lying. If women knew whether she liked a guy on the first meeting, there wouldn't be so many single mothers or women in abusive relationships. There wouldn't be so many women bitter over their ex if a woman could tell if a guy is right for her upon a first impression. This I have observed to be correct really. Some girls liked me more a year after I met them.
somedude81 Posted December 9, 2011 Posted December 9, 2011 Never in my life, has a woman ever come around. What usually happens, is that she gets tired of my continuing efforts, then she drops me from her life and we never speak again.
Lil1 Posted December 9, 2011 Posted December 9, 2011 OP, I don't know how old you are, but from my perspective at 52 I've accepted that I'll never understand why women do, think or feel anything. I can postulate and speculate, but that's generally for entertainment and a pretty worthless pursuit. Just live life within your boundaries of health and what happens, happens. Carhill you are a very perceptive, intelligent, and compassionate person (judging from all of your thoughtful posts) and I think you do possess a much deeper understanding of how women work than most of the other male posters here on LS.... and I don't really believe that you think it's a worthless pursuit. Men and women come to this place to gain a better understanding of eachother and I for one am grateful for your insight:) In regards to the friendzone issue OP, I will share a recent experience which may help you understand why I (as a female) chose not to reciprocate my friend's deeper feelings towards me. Just recently, about 2-3 weeks ago, a very close and good male friend confessed to me that he thought of me in a romantic context and asked me to seriously consider having a relationship with him. I was surprized because I never saw any signs that he may like me as more than a good friend. We have a close friendship, but not close enough to where we would ever act like a couple (I have often seen that kind of dynamic between male and female friendships.. where the line between friendship and something more could be blurred, and I have always been weary of that because it's not how I want to conduct myself as a real friend), so I felt confident that his feelings for me were not a product of any questionable behavior on my part. I told my friend that I would think about it, and I did. After a week of seriously considering my friend's proposition I found myself being unable to see us together in the long term and kept wondering why and where his change of heart had come from. I asked my friend to seriously discuss this with me and through honest conversation we decided that in the long term we would not work out as a couple. We have different goals and view life a little differently. He wants a big family and a stay at home wife, I've never had any desire to be a stay at home wife and I'm not even sure I want kids. He has dated a few girls within our circle of friends and I've always dated outside of my immediate circle of friends. He maintains friendships with most of his exes and I do not. He's the type that will order for me at restaurants (he has done this in the past!) and he is very hot-headed (never backs down from any confrontation). I have always been, and probably always will be, a very laid back person who goes with the flow and tries to find peaceful resolutions to conflicts. These are just a few of some of our major character differences which in the long term would not make for a compatible relationship. I still don't really know how my 'rejection' will affect our friendship but so far it has been alright - I don't sense any tension or any drastic changes in him and we have hung out and enjoyed each other's friendship since that discussion - which was very much a mutual decision in the end. We both came to the same conclusion that we value what we have, a real honest friendship, too much to jeopardize it by entering into a romantic relationship filled with lots of uncertainty. Could I ever love him as more than a friend? sure, I love him as a friend now so why wouldn't I be able to love him as my man. Is there physical attraction? there could be. Are there other people out there who are better suited for us? Most definitely! Could we still be really good friends if we failed at having a relationship? that would be a big fat NO, and this I think is at the heart of it all.
Pizzaman81 Posted December 9, 2011 Posted December 9, 2011 I am sorry, but the feeling of being friends with a girl that friendzoned you vs being a true friend is still different. There's always that subtle difference that is not describable. Let's turn it around. A girl approaches you, and you friend zone her. Everytime you guys hang out as "friends" you get this feeling that she is seeking more, trying hard to get your affection more than just friends. Therefore, you might run into awkward situations when doing seemingly normal friend activities. Being friends with a woman who friendzoned you vs being a normal friend... is DIFFERENT
Pizzaman81 Posted December 9, 2011 Posted December 9, 2011 From my experience, it's because women don't fall for men in the same way that a man can fall for a woman. If the woman isn't attracted to the guy right away, then she never will be. While guys don't work that way at all. I have no idea why women are like this, and it makes the friends first thing impossible. Because men can get horny at random time and start to see a girl that he wasn't normally attracted to... all of a sudden... attractive. Just my theory. So yes, initial attraction is very important
Lil1 Posted December 9, 2011 Posted December 9, 2011 I am sorry, but the feeling of being friends with a girl that friendzoned you vs being a true friend is still different. There's always that subtle difference that is not describable. Let's turn it around. A girl approaches you, and you friend zone her. Everytime you guys hang out as "friends" you get this feeling that she is seeking more, trying hard to get your affection more than just friends. Therefore, you might run into awkward situations when doing seemingly normal friend activities. Being friends with a woman who friendzoned you vs being a normal friend... is DIFFERENT In my case pizzaman he and I were friends first and we have never crossed that line. Are you using the word 'friendzoned' in lieu of 'rejection'? I was afraid that the dynamics of our friendship would change after I 'friendzoned' my friend but so far things seem to be the same as they were before he confessed it to me. Maybe the difference is that he was sort of just entertaining the idea of us entering into a relationship (i.e. he is not in love with me but could see himself falling in love with me) since we are already such good friends but after we both evaluated it we both decided our friendship meant more to us than another possible (and likely) failed relationship.
Author jobaba Posted December 9, 2011 Author Posted December 9, 2011 Because men can get horny at random time and start to see a girl that he wasn't normally attracted to... all of a sudden... attractive. Just my theory. So yes, initial attraction is very important Hahaha. The worst theory ever, man. I mean, I can tell the difference between being horny and having feelings for someone. There's lots of girls that I've wanted to bone who I haven't had feelings for. But it's irrelevant. Never again will it happen...
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