Cause or consequence?

[Mr_Confused]

Curious about perspectives on this one......

 

For those either having an affair or betrayed by one, was your marriage healthy and happy before the affair?

 

Not suggesting an affair if justified - just wondering if you felt things were ok before it occurred OR were there existing & significant problems only further compounded once the affair happened?

Edited December 9, 2011 by Mr_Confused

[RickFox]

I guess I wasn't happy with a bunch of things, namely my W's weight gain and refusal to do anything about it. It wasn't that I began searching but meeting my AP and seeing she was an avid fitness buff didn't help my case either. I remember her pulling 195 on a deadlift with no warm up and thinking, damn, that's hot! There was a lot of little things too but mainly I disconnected from her quite a bit, convinced myself I didn't like the way she talked down to me, the dishes always sat in the sink and when I would start to wash them she would say she'd do it and then never did. So many other little things that I used in my head to justify a new relationship, but the one thing I never did was sit down and talk to her and tell her how I was feeling.

 

None of it was justification for the pain and anguish I've caused, the marriage was generally happy just not healthy. Of course, once the Affair began, I was not happy at home at all and living in my fantasy world.

[Severely Unamused]

was your marriage healthy and happy before the affair?

Nope.

 

stbxH became severely depressed after some complications with his family life, and I held out hope that his mental health would improve.

 

It didn't. Until I began filing for for divorce ironically. Our relationship is much healthier now that we aren't an item anymore.

 

Lesson learned.

[SoMovinOn]

When my STBXW had her A's, our M was not healthy and happy. I understand why she did what she did. Not that understanding makes it ok... there were plenty of other, better ways for her to deal with her issues. ... but, I understand.

 

I am now involved with a MW, and I know her M is not at all healthy or happy.

 

I can't fathom why anyone who was happy with their M would get involved in an A. I suppose it happens, but I can't understand why.

[flutterbykiss]

For us, things were not good.

 

#1 Insecurity problem in WS (childhood issues), which...

#2 caused to problems in our R, that...

#3 led to WS feeling even less loved, which...

#4 allowed an ex to convince WS that she appreciated him more than I did, which...

#5 led to resentment in our R, that...

#6 caused more difficulties at home, which...

#7 led WS to feel even less loved by me, causing...

#8 the OW's flattery to become more valuable to WS, which caused...

#9 WS to be more mindful of OW's manipulative b******t, creating...

#10 unfair, negative comparisons between the OW and me, which...

#11 repeat steps #5 to #10 ad infinitum

 

It was like watching a chain-reaction explosion. The carnage got bigger and bigger with every blast .

 

In short, yes, there were problems before the A, but the A 'stacked the decks' against any chances of resolving those problems.

Edited December 9, 2011 by flutterbykiss
typo

[ThinkBelieve]

I think people in happy marriages do not cheat. I also think a lot of people, in attempt to understand why they cheated, find LS in attempt to understand, only to realize they were miserable in their marriage and that is why they cheated in the first place. I was very unhappy in my marriage. I didn't recognize that immediately.

 

I felt like I had tried hard to make my H happy. I attempted to support him emotionally and finiancially. He no longer wants anything emotional.

 

Many years ago, he no longer wanted intimacy. I have always had a high desire for intimacy and affection, so when he no longer wanted that it became a real struggle for me. I tried to channel my energy into other things....I spent time a lot of time at the gym, physical hobbies, running, read books on having a positive mental attitude, survival, inspiration. I developed insomnia for the first time, last spring, my mind working over-time trying to figure out how to "fix" this situation.

 

I had an affair with a beautiful man. I felt desire again. I know it wasn't a solution to my broken marriage but it did make me realize that my desire to care for and to feel love for someone still exists.

 

I've been trying to fix my marriage; I don't know if it is fixable.

 

I'm still trying to figure out the best course of action.

Edited December 9, 2011 by ThinkBelieve

[Fabian Montenegro]

I think people in happy marriages do not cheat.

Why not?

 

-I know women that cheat simply because they can or because they are bored. They've even told me that everything is fine at home. The fact that their respective husbands don't know is part of the thrill.

 

-I also know men in happy marriages that see mistresses and prostitutes behind their wife's back. I've watched their behaviour. They are very skilled at lying, rationalising and compartalising everything that they do.

 

-There are people that have very poor problem solving skills. So they pull off all sorts of stupid things. Cheating is just one of many potential options.

 

-What about people who only cheated because they had hit a low point in their lives, unrelated to their marital life?

 

-There are people that find monogamy difficult. It's kind of stupid for them to enter monogamous relationships but they do.

 

-Cheating can also being impulse driven ONSs.

 

-And there are people with personality disorders. I wouldn't expect somebody with bi-polar disorder to not cheat.

 

None of this should be surprising and none of this has anything to do with cheating or relationships. We live in an age of individualism. Most people are unreliable.

Edited December 9, 2011 by Fabian Montenegro

[flutterbykiss]

Why not?

 

-I know women that cheat simply because they can or because they are bored. They've even told me that everything is fine at home. The fact that their respective husbands don't know is part of the thrill.

 

-I also know men in happy marriages that see mistresses and prostitutes behind their wife's back. I've watched their behaviour. They are very skilled at lying, rationalising and compartalising everything that they do.

 

-There are people that have very poor problem solving skills. So they pull off all sorts of stupid things. Cheating is just one of many potential options.

 

-What about people who only cheated because they had hit a low point in their lives, unrelated to their marital life?

 

-There are people that find monogamy difficult. It's kind of stupid for them to enter monogamous relationships but they do.

 

-Cheating can also being impulse driven ONSs.

 

-And there are people with personality disorders. I wouldn't expect somebody with bi-polar disorder to not cheat.

 

None of this should be surprising and none of this has anything to do with cheating or relationships. We live in an age of individualism, and people are unreliable.

 

I would agree that all these circumstances certainly occur but, for my money, none of them qualify as a happy marriage. It would especially make me not happy to be with an 'unreliable' partner.

 

IMO, a good M is one where there is no need for deception and the partners are totally open and supportive of each other. I personally find it hard to define a given R as healthy when one spouse is prepared to stab the other in the back, or feels driven to hide their needs. If a M is truly strong and healthy, then surely a solution to the above-mentioned needs/problems can be negotiated in a non-damaging way with the full knowledge, co-operation and understanding of one's spouse.

 

That said, I cannot claim to have ever had a healthy M. Perhaps my expectations are too high. Certainly have no right to dictate the way in which others are 'happy' but I guess it just goes to show why there is so much debate. The question differs for everyone based on how they define the simplest of terms.

[Fabian Montenegro]

I would agree that all these circumstances certainly occur but, for my money, none of them qualify as a happy marriage.

We will have to disagree here. I think that many of these marriages are happy. I also have little doubt that these people have different standards of happiness than you and I. It's not so surprising that many of these cheaters as well as the people that they are married to, are kind of messed up in many ways.

 

Generally speaking, there is this idea that people must be healthy to be happy. This idea does make a lot of sense but my examples go against this.

 

I wouldn't call any of these marriages that I have seen "healthy", but the people involved certianly seem to be happy. Some of them may only be superficially happy but if they are superficial people than superficial happiness is all that they need to be content.

 

Perhaps my expectations are too high.

I doubt that.

[reboot]

It was neither healthy nor happy.

[HappyAtLast]

It was as happy as two people who are strictly partners in co-parenting can be. Definitely not healthy, but, we also were not working to make it so.

 

I allowed myself to fall in love with another woman the year that I was going to be leaving my marriage. Had denied myself that sort of companionship and love for many years. Decided to not let this opportunity go by.

[Owl]

Cause.

 

Our marriage was great for years before the affair.

 

But...that last year prior to the affair, my wife went haywire. Lost her job, started gaming 16+ hours/day online, quit taking care of the house or bills, began seriously pulling away from both me and the kids.

 

All of which led to a very unhappy marriage and family.

 

In turn...set the stage for her to have her EA.

 

After the affair...she was forced to face, deal with, and change her behaviors...which led to a much improved marriage.

[2sure]

Years ago when I was a single OW, I had affairs with several MM. All of them were , by their definition happily married. They were the type of men who were successful beyond the average as far as profession, beautiful wives , talented children, etc etc. In other words - they had it all. They just wanted MORE.

 

After that part of my life, and more recently: My xH cheated on me, as a serial cheater. We were, by his definition and my own - happily married. I came to realize that the all encompassing selfish validation required by some people is breathtaking. Now I know that it is in part a self esteem issue/not happy with themselves ...but even recognizing that , the sense of entitlement is criminal.

[Decimated]

"Why not?

 

-I know women that cheat simply because they can or because they are bored. They've even told me that everything is fine at home. The fact that their respective husbands don't know is part of the thrill.

 

-I also know men in happy marriages that see mistresses and prostitutes behind their wife's back. I've watched their behaviour. They are very skilled at lying, rationalising and compartalising everything that they do.

 

-There are people that have very poor problem solving skills. So they pull off all sorts of stupid things. Cheating is just one of many potential options.

 

-What about people who only cheated because they had hit a low point in their lives, unrelated to their marital life?

 

-There are people that find monogamy difficult. It's kind of stupid for them to enter monogamous relationships but they do.

 

-Cheating can also being impulse driven ONSs.

 

-And there are people with personality disorders. I wouldn't expect somebody with bi-polar disorder to not cheat.

 

None of this should be surprising and none of this has anything to do with cheating or relationships. We live in an age of individualism. Most people are unreliable."

 

 

I agree with this.

 

We were in a happy marriage for 12 years…or so I thought. My wife and I have 3 wonderful children. I was always there for her emotionally and physically. I earn a good living and also enjoy a good work/life balance. I was home everyday by 6:00pm. We spent lots of time together. We went on multiple trips and vacations together every year. We were usually doing something every other weekend. I was always helping around the house with cleaning, dishes, laundry…etc.

 

Our sex life was great at the beginning and started to dwindle as the years went on. This was not my decision…I always wanted her. I just thought this was normal for long relationships. We were still at about 4 times a month.

 

My wife had the luxury of not working if she didn't want to. She chose to work part time. My income paid all our bills…her money was hers. I paid for her shopping sprees, clothes, shoes, nice new cars, lunches with her friends… etc. She was the center of my world. She was always telling me that I was the most amazing husband and father and would even brag to her girl friends.

 

Everything changed when she lost both of her parents within a few months of each other. Within a year she started having an affair with a friend from her school days…facebook. This went on for almost 1 1/2 years until I found out. On D day she announced to me that she was not happy and never had been. She had rewritten our marital history in her mind to a point where it was almost unrecognizable. I found out everything on my own…she lied about everything…and still is. She decided that she didn't want a divorce and wanted to fix our marriage so I have spent the last year trying to save our marriage but with little effort from her...false R.

 

I have since filled for divorce.

 

Was our marriage really happy? I do believe it was. If anything, I was the one who should have felt unhappy. I was the giver and she was the taker. I often felt as if I was putting much more effort into our marriage then she was but I made a promise and a vow to stay with her and our marriage. There was always an imbalance in how much we put into the marriage but I was willing to live with that because I am an adult and I understand that there must be compromise in a relationship.

 

Do I think she was happy? Yes, she would tell me all the time that she was. I have cards that she gave me before her affair where she says things like "Thank you for being the most wonderful husband in the world" and "I am so lucky to have you in my life" and even "I couldn't live without you"

 

Her parents passing was a critical time for her and it caused her to re-evaluate her life. When they died something inside of her died as well. She felt as if she was missing out on something and started thinking about mortality. She no longer valued our life together and didn't want the constraints of a marriage…just the comfort and security I offered. She did have a good life with me but she chose to not appreciate it. She was no longer satisfied with what she had. Also, she said she was bored….nice.

 

My wife's problem and solution both lie within her. Or marriage was not the problem and her OM was not the solution. She internally started blaming me and medicating with him.

 

In the end she saw a shiny new object and she had to have it. Selfishness.

 

I do believe that happiness or what makes us happy can change. It doesn't mean we weren't happy…it just means what makes us happy may not stay the same.

Edited December 9, 2011 by Decimated

[thomasb]

Yes. You can have an affair even though you are happily married. I did. Believe me, it took a while to be happy again after I confessed! My wife is a beautiful, intelligent, vibrant woman. She couldn't be more perfect. My affair didn't have anything to do with her. It had everything to do with my being a selfish, immature jackass of epic proportions.

[HappyAtLast]

I, myself, am of the school that a person in love is not capable of cheating. I am aware that goes against what folks want to believe.

 

Forty years and still going strong, never even considered hurting or disrespecting my beautiful spouse by straying with another. Would never, could never.

 

But, I suppose that's just me. I really cannot understand what could be more important in life than protecting the one you love.

[frozensprouts]

I, myself, am of the school that a person in love is not capable of cheating. I am aware that goes against what folks want to believe.

 

Forty years and still going strong, never even considered hurting or disrespecting my beautiful spouse by straying with another. Would never, could never.

 

But, I suppose that's just me. I really cannot understand what could be more important in life than protecting the one you love.

 

i don't agree, and give the following example ( it's pretty extreme)

 

years ago, my dad had a very brief affair on my mom( i wasn't born then- it was over 40 years ago).

He loved her at the time, but was in a really bad place mentally. His dad had been suffering from depression for a long time, and when his wife became terminally ill, it pushed him over the edge. He killed his wife( with a gun) and himself. My dad was the one who found them about a week later.

 

He blamed himself and ended up having a breakdown, and during that time, he cheated on my mom ( a week long thing).

 

He loved my mom, but , at the time, he didn't love himself...he made poor choices that really were not based upon his feelings |( or lack thereof ) for her.

 

I suspect this |happens more often than people think.

[HappyAtLast]

That is quite an extreme situation.

 

As I said, I personally cannot fathom someone cheating on a spouse that they love. Not possible for me.

 

Clearly, it was possible for your father.

[frozensprouts]

That is quite an extreme situation.

 

As I said, I personally cannot fathom someone cheating on a spouse that they love. Not possible for me.

 

Clearly, it was possible for your father.

 

have heard many times on here that "you never know what you will do in a particular situation until you are in it"...

 

guess that is true some of the time

[nofool4u]

Yes. You can have an affair even though you are happily married.

 

I agree. There are some people that are happy in their marriage, but simply want the variety of bedding down other people. Having sex with the same person for the rest of their lives is boring and scary for too many people out there.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Years ago when I was a single OW, I had affairs with several MM. All of them were , by their definition happily married. They were the type of men who were successful beyond the average as far as profession, beautiful wives , talented children, etc etc. In other words - they had it all. They just wanted MORE.

 

After that part of my life, and more recently: My xH cheated on me, as a serial cheater. We were, by his definition and my own - happily married. I came to realize that the all encompassing selfish validation required by some people is breathtaking. Now I know that it is in part a self esteem issue/not happy with themselves ...but even recognizing that , the sense of entitlement is criminal.

 

Always have and your posts, but face it, and I will be cliched, "you reap what you sow" and "birds of a feather"..... Not disparaging or questioning your choices, and I know you are a big girl, it just affirm what I say that serial cheaters and narcissists search each other out and find them.

 

Generally I agree with the OP, those that don't fit the mold are the exceptions and are as said either serial cheaters or narcissists.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

I agree with this.

 

We were in a happy marriage for 12 years…or so I thought. My wife and I have 3 wonderful children. I was always there for her emotionally and physically. I earn a good living and also enjoy a good work/life balance. I was home everyday by 6:00pm. We spent lots of time together. We went on multiple trips and vacations together every year. We were usually doing something every other weekend. I was always helping around the house with cleaning, dishes, laundry…etc.

 

Our sex life was great at the beginning and started to dwindle as the years went on. This was not my decision…I always wanted her. I just thought this was normal for long relationships. We were still at about 4 times a month.

 

My wife had the luxury of not working if she didn't want to. She chose to work part time. My income paid all our bills…her money was hers. I paid for her shopping sprees, clothes, shoes, nice new cars, lunches with her friends… etc. She was the center of my world. She was always telling me that I was the most amazing husband and father and would even brag to her girl friends.

 

Everything changed when she lost both of her parents within a few months of each other. Within a year she started having an affair with a friend from her school days…facebook. This went on for almost 1 1/2 years until I found out. On D day she announced to me that she was not happy and never had been. She had rewritten our marital history in her mind to a point where it was almost unrecognizable. I found out everything on my own…she lied about everything…and still is. She decided that she didn't want a divorce and wanted to fix our marriage so I have spent the last year trying to save our marriage but with little effort from her...false R.

 

I have since filled for divorce.

 

Was our marriage really happy? I do believe it was. If anything, I was the one who should have felt unhappy. I was the giver and she was the taker. I often felt as if I was putting much more effort into our marriage then she was but I made a promise and a vow to stay with her and our marriage. There was always an imbalance in how much we put into the marriage but I was willing to live with that because I am an adult and I understand that there must be compromise in a relationship.

 

Do I think she was happy? Yes, she would tell me all the time that she was. I have cards that she gave me before her affair where she says things like "Thank you for being the most wonderful husband in the world" and "I am so lucky to have you in my life" and even "I couldn't live without you"

 

Her parents passing was a critical time for her and it caused her to re-evaluate her life. When they died something inside of her died as well. She felt as if she was missing out on something and started thinking about mortality. She no longer valued our life together and didn't want the constraints of a marriage…just the comfort and security I offered. She did have a good life with me but she chose to not appreciate it. She was no longer satisfied with what she had. Also, she said she was bored….nice.

 

My wife's problem and solution both lie within her. Or marriage was not the problem and her OM was not the solution. She internally started blaming me and medicating with him.

 

In the end she saw a shiny new object and she had to have it. Selfishness.

 

I do believe that happiness or what makes us happy can change. It doesn't mean we weren't happy…it just means what makes us happy may not stay the same.

 

what a sad story.... Just reading your screen name makes me worried. I hope you the best. But again we are talking a spouse who considered themselves entitled and eventually was narcissistic.

[Decimated]

what a sad story.... Just reading your screen name makes me worried. I hope you the best. But again we are talking a spouse who considered themselves entitled and eventually was narcissistic.

 

Yes it is. It has taken me a year to get past the shock, pain and even denial of what she did. At first I wouldn't even consider divorce. I was too eager to forgive her as long as I got my emotional security back. I was willing to do anything to save us but as the months passed I slowly realized that she was not the woman I married anymore. Watching her on a daily basis, over the last year, helped me to realize that she is not what I want or expect from a spouse, a partner, lover or a best friend. I was in love with the image of who she was...not who she is.

 

Time passing also allowed me to rebuild my self esteem and confidence. I am now in a place where I am strong enough to move on with out her. I also realize that I am not willing to live with what she did...cheating, betrayal, lying...etc. I also know that I would never really trust her again and that a future with her would be stressful and filled with uncertainty. I now understand it was her choice not mine to cheat. It wasn't anything I did or didn't do that caused this...it was her choice alone.

 

Toodamnpragmatic, you are right. The person she has become is selfish, self centered, entitled, narcissist, stubborn...life is now all about her. She always trended towards these traits but within an acceptable range. After the loss of her parents every one of them was magnified to bring us where we are today.

 

I filed 2 weeks ago. She will be served early next week. She has no idea I have done this. If she would have payed any attention to me and listened to what I have been saying over the last couple of months, she would have seen this coming. She is too self centered to notice the changes in me.

 

I retrospect I should have filed as soon as I found out. It would have saved me a year of hell but I do understand that I may have had regrets. Taking the extra time to try...I have none. I have done everything I could possibly do to save us and our family from her betrayal. I can look in my kids eyes and honestly tell them I tried everything.

Edited December 10, 2011 by Decimated
added paragraph

[Radagast]

I, myself, am of the school that a person in love is not capable of cheating. I am aware that goes against what folks want to believe.

 

Forty years and still going strong, never even considered hurting or disrespecting my beautiful spouse by straying with another. Would never, could never.

 

But, I suppose that's just me. I really cannot understand what could be more important in life than protecting the one you love.

 

I agree with this.