MusicMan1234 Posted December 8, 2011 Posted December 8, 2011 Maybe that's what she actually wants. Why on earth would she want to be married to such an immature man? BTW, if he is doing this as a rebellion, then he is not ready for marriage. Then he is a teenager in the body of a 50+ man. In a relationship you respect each other. If he goes to a stripclub he does not respect his wife nor his family. Whatever happened, the fact of drinking so much and spending so much money from a common account is uncalled for. I said unconscious rebellion, he isn't choosing to act up in this way. His behaviour is a product of his unfufilling home life. Besides, woman do the same thing. When a man isn't meeting her needs, instead of discussing her feelings with him, she goes and cheats on him. Isn't that a form of rebellion? Why on earth would you want to be married to such an immature woman? She must have no respect for her husband or her family. And about the money thing, isn't it his money anyway? It seems to me that he is the sole breadwinner in the family sooo what right does his wife have to tell him what to do with it?
xxoo Posted December 8, 2011 Posted December 8, 2011 I'm guessing this is not common behaviour for your husband. I'm also guessing that when he is home you keep his balls in a vice and nag him to death. I'm making alot of assumtions, but I don't think i'm wrong. You do make a lot of assumptions. But this is the other side of the question I would ask him: What does he really want? Is the marriage so unsatisfying to him that you need to be his jailer to keep him away from strip clubs? If so, you have two choices as a couple-- 1. Improve the marriage, so that it is more enjoyable for you both. 2. End the marriage. Being his mommy should not be an option
frozensprouts Posted December 8, 2011 Posted December 8, 2011 i don't know much about these kids of bars..i'd heard so much "bad" about them that once i went to one with a male friend to find out why they caused such a ruckus. I thought it was pretty boring and ended up reading a book i'd brought with me and talking to one of the dancers. She was a nice lady, a single mom ( her ex -husband was abusive and didn't pay child support) and she also worked part time at a grocery store. I assume she was telling me the truth, as she got no money from me and had no reason to lie. that's my one experience, and it's probably not the norm for these bars...i don't know. about your husband, even if all he got was a 700 dollar lap dance, if it were me in your shoes, i'd still be really angry. To me, that's cheating ( others may not feel the same way)...i mean if he was at a party and he told some girl there to take her clothes off while he watched, sit on his lap and wriggle, , wouldn't you be ticked and consider that infidelity? What is the difference if he pays someone in a bar to do it?
nofool4u Posted December 8, 2011 Posted December 8, 2011 So okay....what's your opinion on this story? What did they do in the champagne room? Or was it really only my H? Why did they have to blow 750? Who's lying? What would y'all do in this case? Tell him you are going to take out $750 and get some friends and go get a big d!ck in your face, and maybe you'll take care of that guy for him in a back room. Bet you he wouldn't like that if the tables were turned. What ticks me off, too, is that he now tries to minimize and justify strip clubs, like "all men go there" No, not all men go there. I've never been. Why would I if I have someone at home? What is it with guys that feel the need to get lap dances from another nude woman? Its pretty pathetic if you ask me. Guys, given the amount spent, what do you think was really going on? It was a gentlemen's club, not a dump. I saw the CC statement. I would venture to guess, unless you are independently wealthy, that if you drop that kind of coin on a strip ho, she isn't just giving out lap dances. Either way, he disrespected you and his daughters. Why don't you tell him, "I sure hope the hell my girls don't grow up and get married to a man like you" Here is the thing, if man cheated on his girls, or went to strip clubs when his precious daughters are sitting at home none the wiser, he'd want to kill their husbands. I don't know if this is enough to divorce him on, but your H is a pr!ck to say the least.
nofool4u Posted December 8, 2011 Posted December 8, 2011 Don't get me wrong, Goldenspoon, my H is very apologetic, but apologetic isn't enough. IMO, he's just sorry he got caught. Only thing that would be enough if I were you would be that he never goes to a strip club again. Hell, he has also proven he can't be trusted when out with the guys. He lied. He's defensive, because he's afraid of losing his family. Hope the strip hos are worth the worry he is going through. I do think you need to make him sweat it out a while. He's trying to downplay and minimize by telling me it's not abnormal, it's not uncommon, he used to go there before we were dating, never touched anyone, just got drunk and had some lapdances Uh, from things I've seen there is touching in lapdances. Tell him, "ok, if thats the case, I'm going out with the girls so I can see a man that has a huge member, and if that member just happens to brush up against any part of my body, oh well, remember, its not abnormal, its not uncommon, and most importantly, you did it." Trust me, if he thinks you will be turned on by another man nude in person, he will not like it. because he could. It stopped during our marriage. But now I'm not so sure about that anymore. I have never before found any suspicious receipts or cash withdrawals from our bank account, but who knows? As I said above, he travels a lot, and I've never really investigated into that subject. I think you need to start having your own money and put it in an account under a sister/brother's name, or parent. That way if the end of your marriage comes, he can't drain all the money you have on hos.
StoneCold Posted December 8, 2011 Posted December 8, 2011 (edited) So okay....what's your opinion on this story? What did they do in the champagne room? Or was it really only my H? Why did they have to blow 750? Who's lying? What would y'all do in this case?. What do I think? I dont know... two guys went to a ripper and spent a few hundred bucks. Heard that story a million times; that tends to happen with guys who are a little "green" when it comes to women. And with these types its easy to spend that kind of money once you find out the price of a drink in a strip joint as compared to a regular bar.... buy a bunch of bar rails, shooters, beers...not just for him and his friend but the strippers too.... it happens. However, theres no way to know for sure what happened in the champagne room outside of a lap dance. Many here say that sex doesnt really happen there....well they are right and they are wrong. Generally speaking..no it doesnt happen just like that...high end club or no high end club. The girls dont just advertise that to any and everyone as it could cause them a problem. Lets also not forget that the name of the game is to "hustle" and if these girls think they can make good cash off a guy without having to f*ck and suck them...they will. HOWEVER, not too many guys are this gullible (some are; mind you) and if the price is right...these girls will blow and screw like the best of them....it may not actually happen at the club (or it may...depends on the club's unspoken tolerances) ...but its happening How do I know this stuff?....few friends that are strippers...bouncers. Owners of these bars TEND (not in all cases) to be bikers, mobsters or mobster "affiliates". These guys like to fly under the radar so as not to attract attention but at the same time theres always wiggle room as nothing is straight with them....you just gotta know how and when to approach it. I also have a problem with the fact that my H is the father of 2 daughters (!), that his image of women must be totally skewed,.. Just so you know just because a guy goes to a strip club...doesnt necessarily mean his opinion of women is skewed. I hear women saying this and for the life of me I dont get it....... Edited December 8, 2011 by StoneCold
KathyM Posted December 8, 2011 Posted December 8, 2011 And from what I've seen, some of these girls are paying for college. I knew a girl that stripped (well in her past when I found out, didn't know her as a stripper) to pay for medical school. That's why some women go into prostitution too--to pay for college. Then guys who patronize them can give themselves a pat on the back that they aren't patronizing to be sexually stimulated, they're actually doing an altruistic act by contributing to a good cause. Sounds like that's the angle the OPs H is trying to pull. Maybe the wife should tell her husband, "Oh, OK, honey, if it was for a good cause, then I guess it's not really cheating if you fondled this woman, or had sex with her."
KathyM Posted December 8, 2011 Posted December 8, 2011 Tell him you are going to take out $750 and get some friends and go get a big d!ck in your face, and maybe you'll take care of that guy for him in a back room. Bet you he wouldn't like that if the tables were turned. No, not all men go there. I've never been. Why would I if I have someone at home? What is it with guys that feel the need to get lap dances from another nude woman? Its pretty pathetic if you ask me. I would venture to guess, unless you are independently wealthy, that if you drop that kind of coin on a strip ho, she isn't just giving out lap dances. Either way, he disrespected you and his daughters. Why don't you tell him, "I sure hope the hell my girls don't grow up and get married to a man like you" Here is the thing, if man cheated on his girls, or went to strip clubs when his precious daughters are sitting at home none the wiser, he'd want to kill their husbands. I don't know if this is enough to divorce him on, but your H is a pr!ck to say the least. Thank you for saying that. Way too many men out there trying to justify bad behavior towards their SO. It's refreshing to see a man who has your attitude, and actually values his relationship with his wife, and wouldn't ever want to jeopardize or compromise it.
Author Disillusioned_2011 Posted December 8, 2011 Author Posted December 8, 2011 And about the money thing, isn't it his money anyway? It seems to me that he is the sole breadwinner in the family sooo what right does his wife have to tell him what to do with it? 1) If he were the sole breadwinner, it would still not be OK. He spent our money doing that, and it wasn't just 50 bucks. A man who has a family doesn't get to spend money like he's a bachelor. Period. If he wants to spend his money on inappropriate things like that, he shouldn't be married. 2) I do work and I take care of the house and child. I'm basically a single parent with a job, not most of the time, but a lot if times throughout the year. I'm rather frugal with money, while he needs the Cadillac version of everything. Sometimes, if I really need something extravagant for myself, I even use my private savings for that, because I would feel too guilty using "our" earned income. Wow, do I feel stupid now.
Stung Posted December 8, 2011 Posted December 8, 2011 As someone said before--and I only skimmed, so it's possible many of my points have been made before--the cost of strip clubs varies greatly from city to city, or depending on which country you're in. A gentleman's club in San Francisco will be more expensive than one in Austin. Still, $750 is going to go a long way, in most places. Unless of course he blew it all at the bar, buying champagne for every girl there, like a total noob. There are many, many clubs who do enforce a very strict no-sex policy. There are many other clubs who tend to look the other way and leave it to the dancer's discretion, and still other clubs are frequented by prostitutes who are not technically employed by the club, but who give them a cut of their profits. Some of the degrees of legal sexual contact involved in the champagne room differ from community to community, as well. It's certainly not exactly unheard of for a man to jizz in his pants in the champagne room, while being ground on. Some clubs offer private sex shows, where the men might not get to touch the women but they do get to watch them, up close and personal, touching and inserting things into themselves and each other. Still, I think all the talk about whether sex occurred or not might be kind of missing the point here. Even if his pants were never unzipped or he never messed up his pants, it's not wildly unreasonable for a man's wife to be upset that he was paying young, naked women to dance for him and rub against his body, particularly if she had already notified him that this was a dealbreaker for her. Dealbreakers can be anything, really--if I told a man while we were dating that it was really indescribably important to me that the man I marry not drink alcohol, even beer, and that I considered it a relationship dealbreaker, and he agreed to that and said he didn't/wouldn't drink, and so we married--then I would be within my rights to be very upset when he showed up drunk one day, wouldn't I? Even if his comeback was that a lot of guys drink beer? The OP feels disrespected, invalidated, and lied to. She doesn't feel she can trust her husband, and she's going to be tying herself up in knots the next time he goes away on one of his business trips. This is a very bad place for a marriage to be in, emotionally. OP, I would suggest that on top of the STD tests you make marriage counseling a requirement--this sounds like something you are going to have to work through together, rather than simply squash your feelings down and then try to grin and bear it next time he flies off on business. If he balks at this because of price--well, I would personally consider that a strong indicator that he wasn't taking your marriage seriously after he spent $750 in one night for strippers and booze.
StoneCold Posted December 8, 2011 Posted December 8, 2011 That's why some women go into prostitution too--to pay for college. Then guys who patronize them can give themselves a pat on the back that they aren't patronizing to be sexually stimulated, they're actually doing an altruistic act by contributing to a good cause. Sounds like that's the angle the OPs H is trying to pull. Maybe the wife should tell her husband, "Oh, OK, honey, if it was for a good cause, then I guess it's not really cheating if you fondled this woman, or had sex with her." Getting a little far fetched arent we?
nofool4u Posted December 8, 2011 Posted December 8, 2011 Thank you for saying that. Way too many men out there trying to justify bad behavior towards their SO. It's refreshing to see a man who has your attitude, and actually values his relationship with his wife, and wouldn't ever want to jeopardize or compromise it. Well geez, its common sense really. Why do men think that going to strip clubs will NOT hurt their beloved wife or gf? Men know their significant others aren't going to want them getting lap dances from some naked woman. So why do they go anyway? Because they don't give a rat's ass about the feelings of their sig. others.
freestyle Posted December 8, 2011 Posted December 8, 2011 Thank you for saying that. Way too many men out there trying to justify bad behavior towards their SO. It's refreshing to see a man who has your attitude, and actually values his relationship with his wife, and wouldn't ever want to jeopardize or compromise it. Ditto--I appreciate that No Fool4U brought up the "shoe-on-the-other-foot" scenario.... I'm amazed at how often times some men will pull the double standard b.s. ---they think it's fine for them to go to a strip club, and cross boundaries, but they sure as hell wouldn't want their wife and the mother of their children to do the same.........
Mr_Confused Posted December 9, 2011 Posted December 9, 2011 I really think this thread is interesting. I think most bachelor or bachlorette parties invovle a stripper, at least many, and many of the people there are married. Why is that a big deal? I do understand what the OP's husband did, perhaps his family needed the $ - I don't know, he's clearly covering something up, but I doubt much. I can see busting his chops but divorcing him......over this? People will throw away an otherwise good marriage over spending a few hundred dollars at a strip club? Did I miss something about other marital issues? I just don't get the extremist views regarding the degree of betrayal in going to a strip club. We have another thread where a woman is enraged her husband looked at porn (not claim of addiction or ignoring her). Quick google search and I found: 12 percent of all Web sites are porn25 percent of all search engine requests are for porn35 percent of all Internet downloads are pornographic So yes, people are fantasizing be it on-line or in person....is this a surprise? There are lines that should not be crossed, but clearly they differ by couple as evidenced by the variety of reactions this thread has received. I think all else aside - and sorry for potential thread jack - a person is well served to have open communication with their spouse about those boundaries and those fantasies. That would be a great start towards assuring they aren't crossed AND enable to a spouse to participate in fulfilling fantasies (it's not like they just disappear).
KathyM Posted December 9, 2011 Posted December 9, 2011 Getting a little far fetched arent we? Am I? According to the OP, her husband did even try to make the point that these strippers are using the money made to further their college education. As if that made his behavior in paying them as something good, and not what it is. He went solely for the purpose of getting himself off, with no thought to how hurtful it would be for his wife.
KathyM Posted December 9, 2011 Posted December 9, 2011 Well geez, its common sense really. Why do men think that going to strip clubs will NOT hurt their beloved wife or gf? Men know their significant others aren't going to want them getting lap dances from some naked woman. So why do they go anyway? Because they don't give a rat's ass about the feelings of their sig. others. Either that, or they think they're entitled because "that's what guys do" and their SO should be OK with it, or they think their SO doesn't need to know, and what they don't know won't hurt them.
KathyM Posted December 9, 2011 Posted December 9, 2011 Ditto--I appreciate that No Fool4U brought up the "shoe-on-the-other-foot" scenario.... I'm amazed at how often times some men will pull the double standard b.s. ---they think it's fine for them to go to a strip club, and cross boundaries, but they sure as hell wouldn't want their wife and the mother of their children to do the same......... True, I'm sure men would be outraged if their wife spent $750 of the family's money getting grinded by some naked guy, or having sex with him.
KathyM Posted December 9, 2011 Posted December 9, 2011 I really think this thread is interesting. I think most bachelor or bachlorette parties invovle a stripper, at least many, and many of the people there are married. Why is that a big deal? I do understand what the OP's husband did, perhaps his family needed the $ - I don't know, he's clearly covering something up, but I doubt much. I can see busting his chops but divorcing him......over this? People will throw away an otherwise good marriage over spending a few hundred dollars at a strip club? Did I miss something about other marital issues? I just don't get the extremist views regarding the degree of betrayal in going to a strip club. We have another thread where a woman is enraged her husband looked at porn (not claim of addiction or ignoring her). Quick google search and I found: 12 percent of all Web sites are porn25 percent of all search engine requests are for porn35 percent of all Internet downloads are pornographicSo yes, people are fantasizing be it on-line or in person....is this a surprise? There are lines that should not be crossed, but clearly they differ by couple as evidenced by the variety of reactions this thread has received. I think all else aside - and sorry for potential thread jack - a person is well served to have open communication with their spouse about those boundaries and those fantasies. That would be a great start towards assuring they aren't crossed AND enable to a spouse to participate in fulfilling fantasies (it's not like they just disappear). Like I said in another thread, it's one thing to just go to a strip club with a bunch of guys for a bachelor's party, but for a MM or engaged man to be paying money for private lap dances or other sexual acts crosses a line into cheating, and it shouldn't have to be spelled out by the wife in order to expect that her husband/fiance would not engage in that. Fantasies are supposed to be fulfilled by the wife/fiance, or kept as just fantasies and not acted on.
Mr_Confused Posted December 9, 2011 Posted December 9, 2011 KAthy - I'm not declaring what is right or wrong for anyone, I think those boundaries exist between the couple, they are not absolutes. My marriage is a wreck - so that's one hell of a disclaimer for starters. We did however have our best years early on, when we were considerably younger and many of our friends were entering marriage. I recall numerous bachlorette parties with strippers and specifically a picture of my wife with a "fireman" in her lap. I couldn't stop laughing. I have no issue with it at all. She reads romance novels and fantasized about ripped gladiators on white horse crying over their heartfelt love for a woman. Sure as h#ll isn't me, but that's quite alright. I just don't think it's cut and dry, he got a lap dance, dump his a$$. Clearly he crossed a lone with the OP, and if he knew better, shame on him. I just strongly suspect he went there with no horrific intentions, ended up drunk, blew a bunch of money (which often happens - sticking to a budget isn't common in such establishments) and posters are saying to drop him like a bad habit and break up a child's home. I just find that fascinating cause it's such a different perspective. Now if this is one more tale or trait in a long list of failings on his part I'm warming up to the idea. We know very little I just found some of the responses very explicit in what they'd do - man goes to strip club - divorce his sorry a$$.
freestyle Posted December 9, 2011 Posted December 9, 2011 True, I'm sure men would be outraged if their wife spent $750 of the family's money getting grinded by some naked guy, or having sex with him. Yep, I wonder the * "it's just what women do...." * philosophy would go over with some of the men who try to use that same line (with genders reversed, of course) as a justification...
KathyM Posted December 9, 2011 Posted December 9, 2011 KAthy - I'm not declaring what is right or wrong for anyone, I think those boundaries exist between the couple, they are not absolutes. My marriage is a wreck - so that's one hell of a disclaimer for starters. We did however have our best years early on, when we were considerably younger and many of our friends were entering marriage. I recall numerous bachlorette parties with strippers and specifically a picture of my wife with a "fireman" in her lap. I couldn't stop laughing. I have no issue with it at all. She reads romance novels and fantasized about ripped gladiators on white horse crying over their heartfelt love for a woman. Sure as h#ll isn't me, but that's quite alright. I just don't think it's cut and dry, he got a lap dance, dump his a$$. Clearly he crossed a lone with the OP, and if he knew better, shame on him. I just strongly suspect he went there with no horrific intentions, ended up drunk, blew a bunch of money (which often happens - sticking to a budget isn't common in such establishments) and posters are saying to drop him like a bad habit and break up a child's home. I just find that fascinating cause it's such a different perspective. Now if this is one more tale or trait in a long list of failings on his part I'm warming up to the idea. We know very little I just found some of the responses very explicit in what they'd do - man goes to strip club - divorce his sorry a$$. It sounds pretty premeditated to me, if he drove to the ATM beforehand to withdraw $750 before going to the strip club. Sounds like he had plans of using quite a bit of money there, not that he just happened to have that amount of cash, and in a drunken stupor, gave it away foolishly for one lap dance in a weakened state of mind. I'm not suggesting the wife divorce this guy on the spot, but it's awfully suspicious that he took out that amount of money, that he regularly went to strip clubs as a single man and sees nothing wrong with going while out of town on business as a MM, and that he sees nothing wrong with getting a lap dance or more from a stripper, that he lied to his wife about it, etc. So many red flags about this whole thing, and I wouldn't be surprised if something more went down, given the amount of money spent. Something is seriously wrong with this marriage if the husband feels its OK to go to strip clubs while out of town, and spend $750 there.
KathyM Posted December 9, 2011 Posted December 9, 2011 Yep, I wonder the * "it's just what women do...." * philosophy would go over with some of the men who try to use that same line (with genders reversed, of course) as a justification... Seriously. If a wife were going to strip clubs while out of town on business and spending $750 of the family's money there, getting lap dances from naked men, somehow I doubt any husband is going to be OK with that.
Mr_Confused Posted December 9, 2011 Posted December 9, 2011 (edited) It sounds pretty premeditated to me, if he drove to the ATM beforehand to withdraw $750 before going to the strip club. Sounds like he had plans of using quite a bit of money there, not that he just happened to have that amount of cash, and in a drunken stupor, gave it away foolishly for one lap dance in a weakened state of mind. I'm not suggesting the wife divorce this guy on the spot, but it's awfully suspicious that he took out that amount of money, that he regularly went to strip clubs as a single man and sees nothing wrong with going while out of town on business as a MM, and that he sees nothing wrong with getting a lap dance or more from a stripper, that he lied to his wife about it, etc. So many red flags about this whole thing, and I wouldn't be surprised if something more went down, given the amount of money spent. Something is seriously wrong with this marriage if the husband feels its OK to go to strip clubs while out of town, and spend $750 there. The man deserves an a$$ chewing no doubt. I read that he took $200 or so form an ATM then had a big charge on the company card. It's also why I inquired if he is in Kentucky or NYC. I remember being at Scores in NYC in the early 90's with a big group and the "sponsor" of the outing had a few girls come over to entertain the group, it was something like $25 a dance, and there are 4 or 5 of them dancing through a series of "remixed" 3 minute songs. He went through $500 in a flash (pun intended). We paid some ridiculous cover to get in. I have no idea what the bill was that night, and all I learned was you can literally burn through cash in those places and I wasn't going to be a regular patron - the whole set-up is utterly (again pun intended) stupid - I just don't understand. It doesn't matter, my only point earlier was we literally have no idea. I don't know what goes on in these places any more, don't care. I just know I've been with guys who spend stupid money, go to back rooms, and all they got for $200-$300 for some crappy champagne and a private place for more of nothing. This guys either stupid or had bad intentions, perhaps both. He's now parted with $750 his wife rightfully would have rather used elsewhere and has good cause for concern. A serious conversation is needed and either boundaries aren't clear or respected....you have to sort that out. I was just taken back by some of the advice to hit the exits - immediately. Edited December 9, 2011 by Mr_Confused
Author Disillusioned_2011 Posted December 9, 2011 Author Posted December 9, 2011 Thanks for all your inputs, guys! This has really become an interesting thread.* To clarify a few things: As someone already said above, it's not about whether or not sex per se did happen. If you make the conscious decision to cross your partner's boundaries, it's the intention that counts. That's why I said before that a simple drunk ONS would be easier to forgive. It can happen. It shouldn't. But it can. The strip club thing, though, is a different story. He knew that I disapprove. He knew that I'm aware of the fact that there's illegal prostitution everywhere, especially in those places. By doing this, he shows me disrespect and where his priorities are. The sex act itself doesn't interest me. I personally don't think it happened, BUT I also think there's no difference between dry humping and penetration. The difference is a piece of cloth. That's nothing. The mindset creates the difference, a piece of zipper doesn't. Unfortunately, the mindset doesn't match my morals. My H is very jealous. Every time I go out, he's worried I could be flirting with someone and whatnot. It's ridiculous. Truth is, I hardly ever go out (too tired) and if I do (like every 8 weeks), I'm back before midnight. Because - yes - I'm too tired to stay out late. My life is busy.*My H never goes out with me. He doesn't take me anywhere, either. Actually, funny thing: on the occasion of his last business trip he TOLD me after I had "complained" about not getting to travel EVER, that we don't have the money to fly me across the country to join him, plus I have a household to maintain. Isn't that ironic? So, altogether it's more about the double standards (which are big in our marriage), trying to keep me on the short leash, compulsive spending, as well as little self-control and financial responsibility. Our daughter has no college fund, for instance. Just an example. Anyways, yes, we've had a rocky marriage basically all the time, but it's been manageable. Now I'm not so sure anymore. Plus, he gets mega-annoyed when I bring up the subject (it hasn't even been 1month that I found out) and thinks I should move on NOW without asking any more questions. I think that's infantile and conflict-avoidant.*
Spark1111 Posted December 9, 2011 Posted December 9, 2011 Thanks for all your inputs, guys! This has really become an interesting thread.* To clarify a few things: As someone already said above, it's not about whether or not sex per se did happen. If you make the conscious decision to cross your partner's boundaries, it's the intention that counts. That's why I said before that a simple drunk ONS would be easier to forgive. It can happen. It shouldn't. But it can. The strip club thing, though, is a different story. He knew that I disapprove. He knew that I'm aware of the fact that there's illegal prostitution everywhere, especially in those places. By doing this, he shows me disrespect and where his priorities are. The sex act itself doesn't interest me. I personally don't think it happened, BUT I also think there's no difference between dry humping and penetration. The difference is a piece of cloth. That's nothing. The mindset creates the difference, a piece of zipper doesn't. Unfortunately, the mindset doesn't match my morals. My H is very jealous. Every time I go out, he's worried I could be flirting with someone and whatnot. It's ridiculous. Truth is, I hardly ever go out (too tired) and if I do (like every 8 weeks), I'm back before midnight. Because - yes - I'm too tired to stay out late. My life is busy.*My H never goes out with me. He doesn't take me anywhere, either. Actually, funny thing: on the occasion of his last business trip he TOLD me after I had "complained" about not getting to travel EVER, that we don't have the money to fly me across the country to join him, plus I have a household to maintain. Isn't that ironic? So, altogether it's more about the double standards (which are big in our marriage), trying to keep me on the short leash, compulsive spending, as well as little self-control and financial responsibility. Our daughter has no college fund, for instance. Just an example. Anyways, yes, we've had a rocky marriage basically all the time, but it's been manageable. Now I'm not so sure anymore. Plus, he gets mega-annoyed when I bring up the subject (it hasn't even been 1month that I found out) and thinks I should move on NOW without asking any more questions. I think that's infantile and conflict-avoidant.* Great insight, Dis2011..... Read up on Madonna/Whore complex...and if I were his IC I'd be asking: "Tell me about your relationship with your mother? what was she like
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