Disillusioned_2011 Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 Ok, so I found out my H went to a stripper bar during his last business trip. I don't know where to go from here. I'm actually contemplating divorce. I find those places offensive, and he knows that. Dealbreaker. When we discussed the incident, he said he was not aware of the fact that I felt so strongly about it, and that he actually did not "remember" that I had mentioned it to him before. I do remember the conversation, though, and I did call it a deal breaker. I mean, hey, I even used that word! How much clearer do I need to phrase it? Summary of the night out: business trip, met old friend who's there on business as well, too many straight vodkas at the hotel bar, 200 USD ATM withdrawal from our shared checking account (that was my hint right there), went to that place, went to champagne room (!!!) with 2 (!!) girls, used business CC (so I wouldn't find out) and signed receipt for 550 USD - hello? Over indulgent, much? Problem: He initially admitted to spending 500 altogether in that place. Lie. Saw the CC statement today for 550, and then we have the additional 200 from the ATM. He said it was only 500, and he spent the remaining cash the next day. Yeah whatever. He doesn't "remember" what was going on in the private room, because he was too drunk, and he was taken advantage of....yeah whatever. He doesn't "remember" what the friend did during that time (friend told his W they were both sitting at the bar only, drinking 2 beers, because all other places had already closed - which is weird....my H already told me there was more to the story, but the friend still thinks he needs to lie - I know the W, so what's the point). Maybe the friend was really at the bar waiting till my H was "done" with his sex entertainment, but why wouldn't he tell his wife that? She already knows that my H was in the champagne room. So okay....what's your opinion on this story? What did they do in the champagne room? Or was it really only my H? Why did they have to blow 750? Who's lying? What would y'all do in this case? I also have a problem with the fact that my H is the father of 2 daughters (!), that his image of women must be totally skewed, that I don't know if that has happened before and how much money has been spent on these activities, etc. He travels quite a bit for business. I'm actually kind of done. I've lost so much respect. I'm more than a decade younger than him, in great shape, and he turns to those skanks and pays them to flirt with him... and maybe more. What is that? I'm beyond myself. What ticks me off, too, is that he now tries to minimize and justify strip clubs, like "all men go there", "even sophisticated men go there", "business meetings are held there" yadayada. IMO, that's BS, and IF that is the case, then the private room **** is still a different league. He blames it all on the alcohol, like he always does when he makes bad choices. Oh yeah, and the friend - it's his fault, too, of course. Bad company. My H is in his early 50s, so come on! Blaming others for his choices is just ridiculous. I told him he needed to get tested for STDs, although he swears he didn't touch, suck, let suck, have sex, etc. Of course. What else? That's my minimum requirement. Before I see a test result, I won't even consider reconciliation. Period. Ladies, what would you do? Guys, given the amount spent, what do you think was really going on? It was a gentlemen's club, not a dump. I saw the CC statement.
Mr_Confused Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 Guys perspective..... I don't know the state of your marriage, but I cannot imagine leaving a good marriage over a visit to a strip club. I don't frequent the by any stretch, actually find them a waste of time and money. When I was in sales I went there from time to time entertaining clients. This was a while back and today's corporate climate it would get you exiled. In any respect, I wouldn't think much 'service' was provided to multiple customers at $750, unless it was a nasty establishment. Again, I don't know if you are in NYC or rural Kentucky....it would make a difference. Strip clubs are very proficient at milking money from patrons, especially intoxicated ones. The back rooms are usually a couple of hundred to get into and then they simply try to get more money from you and do as little as humanly possible. While these women arguable have little to morals....getting laid isn't their objective.....getting your husbands money's is and appears they accomplished that goal. If you husband wanted to get laid while traveling he can just call and escort and probably saved a few hundred bucks. My guess....he got drunk and blew a bunch on money to watch naughty girls dance and had some lap dances in the back room. I'm not suggesting you should welcome such behavior.....but in my experience I have seen many buys participate in such activities with no intent of crossing a line into sexual relations. I just don't know where you draw the line and what $500 means to you and your family. Again....not sure if this is just the straw breaking the camels back or not, but I sure as he'll wouldn't leave a good spouse over something like this. A good ass chewing and put under the radar seems appropriate. Just an opinion, use or discard as you see fit.
Author Disillusioned_2011 Posted December 7, 2011 Author Posted December 7, 2011 Thanks for your opinion. I appreciate it. I know what strippers are after, but it irks me that my H would lust after naked women's bodies and pay for such activities. I would prefer a drunk ONS, at least that requires less planning and is more spontaneous. I'm disgusted by the fact that he had to get money out of the ATM and then use his business CC, in order to cover up his tracks. True, it's probably not a lot of money if those two girls entertained "multiple" customers in the back room, but we are talking about 1, max. 2 customers. So far I only know my H was in the champagne room, since his friend still claims that they were BOTH only sitting at the bar. So the friend is lying, because my H already admitted his champagne room activities. The friend was either at the bar alone (waiting for my H to come back out), or with him in the private room. So I don't know if my H had two girls back there for himself, or if the friend joined them. Would that mean that they spent double the amount? Help! That would be 750 each!
Goldenspoon Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 True, it's probably not a lot of money if those two girls entertained "multiple" customers in the back room, but we are talking about 1, max. 2 customers. So far I only know my H was in the champagne room, since his friend still claims that they were BOTH only sitting at the bar. So the friend is lying, because my H already admitted his champagne room activities. The friend was either at the bar alone (waiting for my H to come back out), or with him in the private room. So I don't know if my H had two girls back there for himself, or if the friend joined them. Would that mean that they spent double the amount? Help! That would be 750 each! Scenario one: Friend was not in champagne room, but your husband was. That's bad. Your husband was privately with a stripper and MANY strippers will do sex act for $200 or at cheap places, even for $100. Scenario two: Friend was with your husband at the champagne room, but friend denied being there at all. That's also bad. Which means that friend lied because something happened there. $750 is definately enough to get him sex that night. The fact that he is not apologetic and instead defeinsive by saying that all men do it, is bad news for you, based on your belief systems. How long have you been with him? Do you have kids with him? How is the marriage before this event?
Author Disillusioned_2011 Posted December 7, 2011 Author Posted December 7, 2011 Don't get me wrong, Goldenspoon, my H is very apologetic, but apologetic isn't enough. IMO, he's just sorry he got caught. He's defensive, because he's afraid of losing his family. He's trying to downplay and minimize by telling me it's not abnormal, it's not uncommon, he used to go there before we were dating, never touched anyone, just got drunk and had some lapdances, because he could. It stopped during our marriage. But now I'm not so sure about that anymore. I have never before found any suspicious receipts or cash withdrawals from our bank account, but who knows? As I said above, he travels a lot, and I've never really investigated into that subject.
Chi townD Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 Well, if it was a strip club...okay, yeah. The girls strip...but, I can say with a degree of certainity that there was no touching on his part. A lot of those place have a no touch policy. Even if you're getting a lap dance, the girl can rub up on you, but you can't touch. Bouncers would be ALL OVER YOU. So, I kinda believe that no sex occurred. He was just an idiot. However, I do understand that you're upset. But is it really enough to throw your marriage away? I mean, didn't you have a stripper at your bachlorette party? Don't shoot me! I'm just trying to get an idea of what's going on.
Author Disillusioned_2011 Posted December 7, 2011 Author Posted December 7, 2011 No, I didn't have a stripper at my bachelorette party. I don't think it's fun, it doesn't turn me on, to me it's just bad taste and a waste of money. I also don't believe that you can compare the two scenarios: male / female strip club. For women it's kind of goofy-silly to go there, but I look at those men ogling those female strippers, mouth half-open, almost drooling, staring in awe....I've seen it. It's different. That's why there's a lot more money thrown around in gentlemen's clubs compared to those Chippendale-kind of places. Men - whether they admit it or not - get turned on and take that stuff seriously. And then the drunk private room incident and the amount of money spent....I'm just flabbergasted. It's mind boggling. I don't think sex was involved, but it's enough to buy naked bodies dancing for you. If she opens your zipper, you won't say no. Thing is....it's not your choice. If she chooses to, you have sex. Right there.
Chi townD Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 (edited) With all due respect, you're right there is a difference between the two. Male review shows are more wild and they encourage touching. Look, I'm not trying to defend your husband's actions. I agree they were stupid and I'm glad we can agree that sex didn't happen. Your husbands actions were stupid and I would be more pissed about the large amount of money that he spent. But, I would strongly suggest that you don't make any rash decisions just yet. I understand that he's TOTALLY in the dog house and I speculate he knows he's there too. But, one thing is for sure. He won't be doing that again! Maybe you two can sit down with a counselor to help you through this tough time. Plus, I would keep him on the hook for the money he spent. I think he OWES YOU every cent of it to spend however you see fit. Right now, you are totally in the driver's seat and he would agree to anything you want to get this fix. Edited December 7, 2011 by Chi townD
Mr_Confused Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 Call me naive, but I've been around a few of these establishments. Any that I would even consider going in are not providing sexual services to their customers - most of these place are making good money and they have policies - and bouncers - to make sure nobody touches these women. It's for the safety of the women and the revenue streams of the scum bags that run them. Now if you are in some skanky, sh*t hole place, where nasty chicks are doing lord knows what for a $1 - I can't help you. The nice ones have a steep cover charge, $20+ lap dances, $10 beers by the time you tip (more for mixed drinks) and every girl that walks by wants a few dollars. I think they are absurd and don't know why people even go. If you are hard up you're only going to be more frustrated once you leave. Usually what I see there are a bunch of pathetic men, who somehow believe the dancer is "into them" until they exhaust the last $1 and she skips away to next gullible idiot. That's 90% of the crowd and it's a sad sight. So yes, shame on him for wasting money and lying.....but to say you'd prefer a drunken ONS tells me you've let your imagination run wild with what happens in these places. I do understand your annoyance with him as a father of a girl. I get that - as my daughter is now a teen - she is still my lil angel - but as her curves and figure continue to take shape I find myself having a greater disdain for these places.
Author Disillusioned_2011 Posted December 7, 2011 Author Posted December 7, 2011 I agree that money shouldn't be an issue in the future, as long as I get to spend it. I already told him that. Plus, as I said, he needs to get tested, which he thinks is stupid. He says it's 170 bucks to get tested, he already called the doctor, and he knows he's clean, so it's a waste of money....haha. Very funny. Waste of money..... I still don't understand why his friend is lying to his wife. My H won't tell me what the friend was doing, while he himself was in the champagne room, because he was too drunk to remember (I think he's lying). The friend is still telling his wife that they were both sitting at the bar drinking beers (lying for sure). I told the wife what my husband did, and I'm not saying her husband did it, too, but he's definitely not telling her the truth. Maybe they went to two different champagne rooms, so they really don't know what the other one did? Anyhow, as Chi_Town said, I'm most upset about the money spent, and how much respect and trust I've lost. Boo.
Goldenspoon Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 (edited) Call me naive, but I've been around a few of these establishments. Any that I would even consider going in are not providing sexual services to their customers - most of these place are making good money and they have policies - and bouncers - to make sure nobody touches these women. It's for the safety of the women and the revenue streams of the scum bags that run them. Now if you are in some skanky, sh*t hole place, where nasty chicks are doing lord knows what for a $1 - I can't help you. The nice ones have a steep cover charge, $20+ lap dances, $10 beers by the time you tip (more for mixed drinks) and every girl that walks by wants a few dollars. I think they are absurd and don't know why people even go. If you are hard up you're only going to be more frustrated once you leave. Usually what I see there are a bunch of pathetic men, who somehow believe the dancer is "into them" until they exhaust the last $1 and she skips away to next gullible idiot. That's 90% of the crowd and it's a sad sight. So yes, shame on him for wasting money and lying.....but to say you'd prefer a drunken ONS tells me you've let your imagination run wild with what happens in these places. I do understand your annoyance with him as a father of a girl. I get that - as my daughter is now a teen - she is still my lil angel - but as her curves and figure continue to take shape I find myself having a greater disdain for these places. Based on your numbers, do you think her husband just got some lap dances and nothing sexual happens? $750/$20 = 30 plus lap dances? Don't you think he would get bored or want more after say 3 lap dances? Edited December 7, 2011 by Goldenspoon
LilMissMovinOn Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 (edited) Ok, so I found out my H went to a stripper bar during his last business trip. I don't know where to go from here. I'm actually contemplating divorce. I find those places offensive, and he knows that. Dealbreaker. When we discussed the incident, he said he was not aware of the fact that I felt so strongly about it, and that he actually did not "remember" that I had mentioned it to him before. I do remember the conversation, though, and I did call it a deal breaker. I mean, hey, I even used that word! How much clearer do I need to phrase it? Summary of the night out: business trip, met old friend who's there on business as well, too many straight vodkas at the hotel bar, 200 USD ATM withdrawal from our shared checking account (that was my hint right there), went to that place, went to champagne room (!!!) with 2 (!!) girls, used business CC (so I wouldn't find out) and signed receipt for 550 USD - hello? Over indulgent, much? Problem: He initially admitted to spending 500 altogether in that place. Lie. Saw the CC statement today for 550, and then we have the additional 200 from the ATM. He said it was only 500, and he spent the remaining cash the next day. Yeah whatever. He doesn't "remember" what was going on in the private room, because he was too drunk, and he was taken advantage of....yeah whatever. He doesn't "remember" what the friend did during that time (friend told his W they were both sitting at the bar only, drinking 2 beers, because all other places had already closed - which is weird....my H already told me there was more to the story, but the friend still thinks he needs to lie - I know the W, so what's the point). Maybe the friend was really at the bar waiting till my H was "done" with his sex entertainment, but why wouldn't he tell his wife that? She already knows that my H was in the champagne room. So okay....what's your opinion on this story? What did they do in the champagne room? Or was it really only my H? Why did they have to blow 750? Who's lying? What would y'all do in this case? I also have a problem with the fact that my H is the father of 2 daughters (!), that his image of women must be totally skewed, that I don't know if that has happened before and how much money has been spent on these activities, etc. He travels quite a bit for business. I'm actually kind of done. I've lost so much respect. I'm more than a decade younger than him, in great shape, and he turns to those skanks and pays them to flirt with him... and maybe more. What is that? I'm beyond myself. What ticks me off, too, is that he now tries to minimize and justify strip clubs, like "all men go there", "even sophisticated men go there", "business meetings are held there" yadayada. IMO, that's BS, and IF that is the case, then the private room **** is still a different league. He blames it all on the alcohol, like he always does when he makes bad choices. Oh yeah, and the friend - it's his fault, too, of course. Bad company. My H is in his early 50s, so come on! Blaming others for his choices is just ridiculous. I told him he needed to get tested for STDs, although he swears he didn't touch, suck, let suck, have sex, etc. Of course. What else? That's my minimum requirement. Before I see a test result, I won't even consider reconciliation. Period. Ladies, what would you do? Guys, given the amount spent, what do you think was really going on? It was a gentlemen's club, not a dump. I saw the CC statement. Yr an intelligent woman. For tht amount of $ both yr H and his friend particiapted in sex acts with these women. It's well known tht despite various laws & policies this happens at almost all such establishments. And both yr H & his friend are lying in order to try to avoid the full consequences of their behaviour. That part is easy to work out. The part that's more difficult is what yr going to do about it? For me, given one ex partner had a fascination for paid sex with sex workers, yr scenerio would be grounds for seperation. Everyone's different though. If yr H makes a FULL disclosure & gets therapy to become fully rehabilitated you might have something to work with but otherwise I'd move on. Edited December 7, 2011 by LilMissMovinOn
Mr_Confused Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 (edited) No. I think He pain $20 to get in, drink $150, spent $50 on sugary shooter form the shot glass girl dressed like a cowgirl with a holster full of watered down drinks, of had 3 or 4 lap dances, tipped the restroom attendant every time he took a piss, tipped a bunch of girls on stage, then got the hots for some young thing, went in a champagne room for ~$200 thinking he'd get special treatment (which he wont), she talked him out of some more $ in there for which he got absolutely nothing and left feeling like fool....along with countless other people that go to places like this. These place are a joke. The days of coke'd up whores is over. Most of ultra fit attractive women that use their young assets to milk money from men like taking candy from babies. The last thing they want is to get banged from some out of town business man when there is easy prey more than happy to part with their money. Again - I have no idea why people do it.....but they do. I am giving the benefit of the doubt cause in today's world anyone wanting sex can simply google "escorts" and the city you are in and pick from picture the woman of choice in the price range you prefer....and he would have saved ~$400. Click here is you want to get a sample: http://www.eros.com/ Believe me, in most upscale gentlemen's clubs (which contains anything but gentlemen) if you lay your hand on a woman you'll be luck to leave with it. Edited December 7, 2011 by Mr_Confused
Spark1111 Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 I agree that money shouldn't be an issue in the future, as long as I get to spend it. I already told him that. Plus, as I said, he needs to get tested, which he thinks is stupid. He says it's 170 bucks to get tested, he already called the doctor, and he knows he's clean, so it's a waste of money....haha. Very funny. Waste of money..... I still don't understand why his friend is lying to his wife. My H won't tell me what the friend was doing, while he himself was in the champagne room, because he was too drunk to remember (I think he's lying). The friend is still telling his wife that they were both sitting at the bar drinking beers (lying for sure). I told the wife what my husband did, and I'm not saying her husband did it, too, but he's definitely not telling her the truth. Maybe they went to two different champagne rooms, so they really don't know what the other one did? Anyhow, as Chi_Town said, I'm most upset about the money spent, and how much respect and trust I've lost. Boo. I agree that these places can run the gamut between innocent sexual entertainment to not so innocent sexual encounters. What is visible in the main room is very different than what may take place in a Champagne room when alone with the dancer. As long as no one witnesses the act, hell, management can get its cut and still claim nothing happened. The stripper would initiate this. If the dancer can pocket more money and no one the wiser, so be it. You would have to be alone in the room (no witnesses) for a sex act to take place. Arrangements can sometimes be made for off-premise activity. It all depends on what the stripper is willing to do as long as the house gets it's cut for ahem......dancing. I too would find it disrespectful and so sleazy, not only for the rediculous money spent, not because the potential for sex could exist, but mostly for how these places objectify women, and the rediculous double-standard that exists. OP, how would your H feel is you frequented or paid for a young, hot bodied man to grind all over you half-naked while you were drunk...as you got lost in the fantasy, eyes glazed over, mouth slackens, and you start to arouse sexually? Maybe, even moan a little? He'd be out of his mind. Maybe you should suggest you intend to try what he tries, and you'll let him know how it goes. Maybe then, he will understand how it makes you feel when he did it. Maybe, if he really gets it, he will never do it again.
Chi townD Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 I seriously doubt sex acts are occurring in strip clubs. These places are on thin ice in a lot of communities, and the communities are looking for ANY excuse to get them shut down. Therefore, if the rumor of prositution is leaking into the community. They're toast. Plus, lets look at these high end strip clubs and the strippers. Why would they have sex with a drunk businessman when they can coax the money out of them. Which route do you think they're going to take?
xxoo Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 Very gross behavior I think you are right to demand an STI test. You don't trust him, you don't KNOW what he did and did not do, and you need to be safe. And, it is a concrete consequence for his choices. Would I divorce over it? That depends largely on the nature of the marriage outside of this event. I wouldn't divorce if this is far outside the norm, but would consider divorce if this kind of trust issue was common. Mostly, to reconcile, I'd want to know his true feelings. Is this what he wants? Strippers? If that is what he truly wants, I'd want him to tell me--so that I can divorce him. I don't want to be any man's mommy, keeping him from the other women he REALLY wants. Screw that.
KathyM Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 From what I've read, some strippers actually work on the side as prostitutes, so it wouldn't be farfetched to assume he might have run into one at the strip club. $750 is a heck of a lot of money for just a lap dance. I'm guessing there was a lot more than that going on.
Mr_Confused Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 Take it from Chris Rock: Your husbands intent should concern you.....but I will almost guarantee he was made a fool compounded only by being caught.
Chi townD Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 From what I've read, some strippers actually work on the side as prostitutes, so it wouldn't be farfetched to assume he might have run into one at the strip club. $750 is a heck of a lot of money for just a lap dance. I'm guessing there was a lot more than that going on. And from what I've seen, some of these girls are paying for college. I knew a girl that stripped (well in her past when I found out, didn't know her as a stripper) to pay for medical school.
Author Disillusioned_2011 Posted December 7, 2011 Author Posted December 7, 2011 And from what I've seen, some of these girls are paying for college. I knew a girl that stripped (well in her past when I found out, didn't know her as a stripper) to pay for medical school. Yeah, that's what my H says, too. I don't really care, why they work there and what they are saving for. What matters to me is that he thinks he has to contribute to some low-life slut's college education (crack addiction is probably more accurate) while he should be more concerned about our child's education, aka financial future.
Chi townD Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 We can go back and forth all day on what they do and do not do in strip clubs, but I think we're getting sidetracked here. My question is for Disillustioned....What's your game plan now?
SincereOnlineGuy Posted December 8, 2011 Posted December 8, 2011 You just need to man-up, and break the deal. This has so little to do with the strippers and the stripping, and much more to do with deceit. If you evolve to have deceived him in terms of not breaking the deal, then you are no better at your core than he is.
Afishwithabike Posted December 8, 2011 Posted December 8, 2011 The dimly lit backrooms at some strip clubs can be places where sexual acts can happen and management has plausible deniability. Once your husband gets a lap dance, it crosses the line between just ogling a woman who is dancing to having a young, hot body grind on him until he likely gets an erection and a "happy ending" . How different is a lap dance with a happy ending from a handjob or a BJ at a "massage parlor"? His traveling allows him to hide things from you very easily too. Also, are you two so well off that he's able to afford such a luxurious habit? This man is spending hundreds of dollars at a strip club.
PinkInTheLimo Posted December 8, 2011 Posted December 8, 2011 Ladies, what would you do? I would do what you are doing right now. Put up strong boundaries and show that this behaviour is unacceptable for you. I agree with everything you write here and share your indignation. Also, before I would enter a serious relationship with a man, I would list the dealbreakers. Going to stripclubs is one of them. And dealbreaker means: if you break the deal, relationship over. Were there ever any clues that your husband was capable of doing this?
PinkInTheLimo Posted December 8, 2011 Posted December 8, 2011 In conclusion, that 10 foot pole up your bum is going to destroy your marriage if you don't do something about it. Maybe that's what she actually wants. Why on earth would she want to be married to such an immature man? BTW, if he is doing this as a rebellion, then he is not ready for marriage. Then he is a teenager in the body of a 50+ man. In a relationship you respect each other. If he goes to a stripclub he does not respect his wife nor his family. Whatever happened, the fact of drinking so much and spending so much money from a common account is uncalled for.
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