Woggle Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 For a while I have had some resentment towards women because of certain things I have observed but I have been trying to look at the world with an unbiased eye. I have noticed that men are just as bad. Maybe bad in different but still bad. It is just much easier to see what men go through with women when you are a man yourself. The grass looks greener no matter where you stand. The sad fact is that we live in a self centered, shallow, materialistic and cold hearted society in this day and age and that will manifest itself in relationships. These days people will sell their soul in a heartbeat for wealth and status. Despite the fact that the overwhelming majority of people are not privileged we still idolize the top 5% or 1% or whatever small number it is. People will stab their own family and friends in the back to get into that club. This explains the current dating situation we see today and both men and women like to point the finger at the opposite sex when society itself in general is sick. My rant is over but I am noticing that my anger towards the opposite sex is really misdirected anger at the current state of society.
ShannonMI Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 For a while I have had some resentment towards women because of certain things I have observed but I have been trying to look at the world with an unbiased eye. I have noticed that men are just as bad. Maybe bad in different but still bad. It is just much easier to see what men go through with women when you are a man yourself. The grass looks greener no matter where you stand. The sad fact is that we live in a self centered, shallow, materialistic and cold hearted society in this day and age and that will manifest itself in relationships. These days people will sell their soul in a heartbeat for wealth and status. Despite the fact that the overwhelming majority of people are not privileged we still idolize the top 5% or 1% or whatever small number it is. People will stab their own family and friends in the back to get into that club. This explains the current dating situation we see today and both men and women like to point the finger at the opposite sex when society itself in general is sick. My rant is over but I am noticing that my anger towards the opposite sex is really misdirected anger at the current state of society. A bit of an epiphany, Wog? Good for you:)
WhiteChocolate Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 I'm glad you have come to this realization as well. The world can be harsh, but there is greatness in this world too! And true love and selflessness and sacrifice. From both genders. Maybe I'm just an optimist.
bimmerfan Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 You know it's funny. When I was younger, all I cared about was being rich and driving expensive cars. Now I just want companionship and to be respected for being an idividual. People (mostly men) are stupid and will do anything for a bone. But I think this chasing thing is mostly an american concept. I plan on taking a trip overseas one day just to see how love and relationships function over there. Assuming they function differently at all.
Ruby Slippers Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 The sad fact is that we live in a self centered, shallow, materialistic and cold hearted society in this day and age and that will manifest itself in relationships. These days people will sell their soul in a heartbeat for wealth and status. Despite the fact that the overwhelming majority of people are not privileged we still idolize the top 5% or 1% or whatever small number it is. People will stab their own family and friends in the back to get into that club. This explains the current dating situation we see today and both men and women like to point the finger at the opposite sex when society itself in general is sick. My rant is over but I am noticing that my anger towards the opposite sex is really misdirected anger at the current state of society. I agree. It's not that men or women are sorry -- it's that, presently, a lot of people are pretty sorry. But I think a big part of the explanation for that is that we are brainwashed, to varying degrees. Even I, who have always been relatively free-thinking, have been waking up more and more from the brainwashing that has had hold of me in some ways, basically since birth. The global uprisings and Occupy movement are the beginnings of people waking up and thinking for themselves, and it's not going to stop.
Untouchable_Fire Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 For a while I have had some resentment towards women because of certain things I have observed but I have been trying to look at the world with an unbiased eye. I have noticed that men are just as bad. Maybe bad in different but still bad. It is just much easier to see what men go through with women when you are a man yourself. The grass looks greener no matter where you stand. What makes you feel this way now? I know for 6-8 months after I broke up with my 2nd cheating xGF I really struggled with trusting women in general. I'm in a better place now... but I'm just extremely cynical. I guess the big frustration for me was realizing that there are particular types of guys that get cheated on all the time... even the best of women will cheat on them. Also there are some guys that rarely get cheated on.... unfortunately I'm the former more than the latter.
Emilia Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 The sad fact is that we live in a self centered, shallow, materialistic and cold hearted society in this day and age and that will manifest itself in relationships. These days people will sell their soul in a heartbeat for wealth and status. Despite the fact that the overwhelming majority of people are not privileged we still idolize the top 5% or 1% or whatever small number it is. People will stab their own family and friends in the back to get into that club. This explains the current dating situation we see today and both men and women like to point the finger at the opposite sex when society itself in general is sick. I'm afraid the world has always been this way, people have only been marrying for love for a relatively short time after all. It might be more 'in your face' now than would have been 100 years ago but people married for money then - and that's as shallow as it gets.
Author Woggle Posted December 5, 2011 Author Posted December 5, 2011 What makes you feel this way now? I know for 6-8 months after I broke up with my 2nd cheating xGF I really struggled with trusting women in general. I'm in a better place now... but I'm just extremely cynical. I guess the big frustration for me was realizing that there are particular types of guys that get cheated on all the time... even the best of women will cheat on them. Also there are some guys that rarely get cheated on.... unfortunately I'm the former more than the latter. If I step outside of myself I realize that some women go through the same thing For a while I have been seeing women as these heartless creatures who have a harem of men ready to cater to their every whim and get a kick out of treating them like crap. I like you have pretty much been treated like crap most of my life by women until my current marriage. I do wish women would not be so quick to judge a man who has obviously been through the ringer and has some trust issues.
Jynxx Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 I'm not convinced changing bitterness against a gender to bitterness against society is much of an improvement.
stillafool Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 I agree with you Woggle. I am so sick to all this materialism. Look at Christmas, for instance, it's all about Santa Claus and getting more junk. Everyone has forgotten about the birth of Christ.
Author Woggle Posted December 5, 2011 Author Posted December 5, 2011 I agree with you Woggle. I am so sick to all this materialism. Look at Christmas, for instance, it's all about Santa Claus and getting more junk. Everyone has forgotten about the birth of Christ. Look at how people acted during the black Friday sales.
freestyle Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 I'm not convinced changing bitterness against a gender to bitterness against society is much of an improvement. I see your point--BUT---at least it's equal opportunity bitterness. Truth be told---I think this is a great step forward for you, Wogs---to stop making blanket generalizations based on gender. I have a lot of the same complaints about present society, too---the materialism, focusing on looks, instead of character---etc......It makes me sigh. And it can make a person pessimistic. All that being said, however--I can still see a lot of goodness in people. It depends on where you look. Like that old parable about the two men- One looked down and saw mud...... One looked up and saw stars....... It all boils down to what you choose to plug into.You're holding the remote, you can change the channel.
dasein Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 Men are every bit as bad as women. The reason it seems like people feel otherwise here on the dating board is that in current culture, average women do have more dating options than average men generally. One only has to spend a brief time doing OLD to know this. But remember also that we are all laboring against societal norms that characterize men too badly and women too well, coming from academia, media, the government, and marketers. Calling out these societal trends for the BS they are is not "going after women," or "hating women," but merely seeking balance.
Sanman Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 Congrats Woggles, I hope you can hold onto this line of thinking. Some people here think that I have a poor opinion of women. The truth is that I have a poor opinion of most people. Those that I have the highest opinion of are closest to me (gf and my best friends) and the rest I could really care less about. A simple lesson to learn is that you are not special. If someone will treat others a certain way, they will likely treat you that way as well. If they are playing games and telling me about the mean things you have done to others, I assume who will treat me that way as well. People with good moral character show that character in many (if not all) aspects of their lives.
Mme. Chaucer Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 I guess the big frustration for me was realizing that there are particular types of guys that get cheated on all the time... even the best of women will cheat on them. Also there are some guys that rarely get cheated on.... unfortunately I'm the former more than the latter. You underestimate people. There are particular types of PEOPLE of whatever gender who WON'T CHEAT, regardless of the man or woman they are involved with. They will break up first. I assure you that the "best women" won't cheat. Men either.
Untouchable_Fire Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 If I step outside of myself I realize that some women go through the same thing For a while I have been seeing women as these heartless creatures who have a harem of men ready to cater to their every whim and get a kick out of treating them like crap. I like you have pretty much been treated like crap most of my life by women until my current marriage. I do wish women would not be so quick to judge a man who has obviously been through the ringer and has some trust issues. Yeah, I completely get it. Men have been pricks for ages... and now many of us are being trained from birth to be sensitive and spineless. Very few people are going to deny that women cheat just as much as men today. What nobody seems to think about is WHO these women are cheating on. Based on what I see in the world today... its the guys who are not unrelenting pricks who are being cheated on. So, while I agree with you that in the big picture gender doesn't make a difference.... I understand that case by case it's all about gender. I agree with you Woggle. I am so sick to all this materialism. Look at Christmas, for instance, it's all about Santa Claus and getting more junk. Everyone has forgotten about the birth of Christ. Truth is that we are just so rich as a culture. We own 25% of the worlds wealth and we are less than 5% of the worlds population. Do you remember what Jesus said about the chances of getting to heaven for a rich man? We are an entire nation of rich men... and as such we just have very few honest Christians left. Just a bunch of rich Aholes mumbling the words and pretending.
Mrlonelyone Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 Welcome to my world woggle. People like me have seen this for a long time. Since we aren't on either of the two big teams we can see the bad aspects of both. Until you have been accepted as a woman by women as those women complain about men. Until you have been seen as a man by men as those men complain about women. You haven't seen the half of it. Men are every bit as bad as women. The reason it seems like people feel otherwise here on the dating board is that in current culture, average women do have more dating options than average men generally. One only has to spend a brief time doing OLD to know this. But remember also that we are all laboring against societal norms that characterize men too badly and women too well, coming from academia, media, the government, and marketers. Calling out these societal trends for the BS they are is not "going after women," or "hating women," but merely seeking balance. YES. In short there is this idea that women are "good" (or should be good) and should not or do not do wrong. It's a combination of pre sexual revolution ideas about women needing to be virtuous, with second wave* man hating feminism. *Second wave feminism isn't so much about simple rights and equality. It's about all wymyn born wymyn being victims of male aggression. The most radical hate all men, are lesbian, see heterosexxual sex as rape etc.
Untouchable_Fire Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 You underestimate people. There are particular types of PEOPLE of whatever gender who WON'T CHEAT, regardless of the man or woman they are involved with. They will break up first. I assure you that the "best women" won't cheat. Men either. I definitely agree with that statement. However, those people are few and far between. Having been exposed to how other cultures see things has given me a greater understanding of what we do right and what we do wrong. We are far too heavily individualistic, and we value passion way too much. I've experienced nearly every type of passion I can... and it always seems ephemeral. Sometimes it comes back... sometimes it doesn't. Feels great when it's there, but it also destroys my ability to make good choices. Anyway... Woggle is right in this... It isn't just about gender. Terrible people come in all shapes and colors.
Author Woggle Posted December 5, 2011 Author Posted December 5, 2011 The problem is that many men who are not pricks tend to have a knight in shining armor complex. They go after the most damaged women they can find and try to save them from the evil bad boys they are so addicted to while they ignore the women just trying to get by in this world who are honest and trustworthy. If you want a healthy relationship then date healthy women. As heartless as it sounds sometimes it is best to walk away from somebody that keeps wrecking their life before they wreck yours as well.
Untouchable_Fire Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 The problem is that many men who are not pricks tend to have a knight in shining armor complex. They go after the most damaged women they can find and try to save them from the evil bad boys they are so addicted to while they ignore the women just trying to get by in this world who are honest and trustworthy. If you want a healthy relationship then date healthy women. As heartless as it sounds sometimes it is best to walk away from somebody that keeps wrecking their life before they wreck yours as well. Is that really what you think? I believe only a small fraction of guys have that knight in shining armor complex. The guys that get cheated on are the ones who tend to have specific traits. Lower self confidence, low ambition, work too much... ect.
Author Woggle Posted December 5, 2011 Author Posted December 5, 2011 Is that really what you think? I believe only a small fraction of guys have that knight in shining armor complex. The guys that get cheated on are the ones who tend to have specific traits. Lower self confidence, low ambition, work too much... ect. Most women I know who tend to treat men like this have a past record of being addicted to jerks and general trainwreck behavior. My ex included. I knew she had always dated jerks and like to dabble in drugs but I thought it would change once we moved to NJ but it got much worse.
grkBoy Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 This is why I "dropped out" that time I did. Why I came to the conclusion that it's up to me to make my life happy and fulfilled...and not to hope a woman would do that for me. It's why I keep pushing it on all of you. When I "dropped out", I pretty much came to the conclusion that my only options it seemed were single moms with loads of drama/hardship, fat women, and psycho headcases. I just felt that the way women say "I'll never settle!" I decided to adopt the same ideology. I wasn't going to settle on someone whom I'd probably end up later unhappy with, or in divorce with, etc. At first I treated it as "hollow revenge". I was planning on making myself into the best person I can be, living a life I wanted...and then when women who are in their 30s and 40s lament on how there are no "good men", I'd be the one they wish they had gotten with, but also be the one they'll never get. The thing is, as I found my own inner happiness, I let go of the "hollow revenge" thinking. I just honestly stopped caring about it all. Girl comes on Facebook griping on how guys treat her like crap, I ignore it. Guy is out somewhere moaning about his nagging girlfriend, I shrug it off. I didn't seem to care anymore how people looked at me and I ignored when they kept talking either of how I should find a "nice girl" or even the few who say I'm so lucky to be alone. I just was happy doing my work, hobbies, interests, travel. I gave my love to family and friends. Granted not having any sex in my life sucked, but it was a small thing for me. I could live without it. Society, especially American society, is screwed up. We have our gender roles a mess, and sociological conflicts of marriage and commitment versus staying single, independent, and polygamous. Everyone has ideas of what they want, but feels they'll never have it, so they're trying to decide where that "good enough" level is. For me, I grew tired of trying to please a woman to like me as more than a friend...so I stopped and decided the only person I had to please with myself. That's what all of you "constant trouble in love" folk need to do.
Author Woggle Posted December 5, 2011 Author Posted December 5, 2011 I'm not convinced changing bitterness against a gender to bitterness against society is much of an improvement. I am not bitter but I am starting to realize the kind of society we live in. It's why the world is in the state it is in.
donnamaybe Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 I do wish women would not be so quick to judge a man who has obviously been through the ringer and has some trust issues.That's why my man and I are still together. We went through a few very rough times because of his baggage, but love and honesty persevered.
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