dasein Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 It's always funny to see women lining up here to opine on something they likely know little about, dating women. Ladies, hold forth on dating men or how the numbers of men you have dated and experience behave sexually, and leave the experience of dating women to those of us who have dated many women. By and large, women milk OLD sites for attention and trophy hunting, they readily pursue and have sex with the top profiles on a site, while deciding whether they can "settle for" the more average guys on their level on the site. If you don't do this, and use the site in a more adult way, good for you. But suggesting that just because you are a certain way means all women OLD are is ridiculous. For example, I've dated 30+ women from OLD, one of whom had an ex husband doing it. They were comparing notes, partly out of competition. He was a "perfect male specimen" extremely tall, handsome, wealthy ex pro athlete, and had first or second date sex with every single woman he dated from match, from all walks of life. He was telling them upfront he just wanted some fun, and the women were fine with it. He and I were using the site at the same time and there was overlap. Women he would take out and bang would respond demurely to me as if they were chaste, old school "ladies." They were seeking sex with me relatively early also, but on different terms, him as fun boy they knew they could never snag, me as "provider prospect." I was banging his ex wife, while he was banging every woman on the site in the metro area, it was admittedly a weird dynamic, but I learned an immense amount about the true sexual habits of women in OLD from that experience. OP, for every woman you date OLD, if she is what you would term "hot" or even above average, a top 20% female profile, the likelihood of their being someone like the pro athlete in the picture is high. He could be a doctor, investment banker, moderately famous person known in the community, etc. Expect him to be in the picture because he usually is. If she isn't physically forward or accepting of your advances by the second date, the odds are extremely high that she simply isn't that interested. It's possible to beat those guys out and push them out of the picture, but it's only temporary.
carhill Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 Dasein, to put pictures to your perspective, here's a '20%'er' and an example of her 'league'. I love how the camera really puts things into context. I've experienced a lifetime of what the OP has reflected upon and see and accept it as how the world is. One can ride the bear or one can be under the bear and get eaten by the bear.
dasein Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 Dasein, to put pictures to your perspective, here's a '20%'er' and an example of her 'league'. I love how the camera really puts things into context. I've experienced a lifetime of what the OP has reflected upon and see and accept it as how the world is. One can ride the bear or one can be under the bear and get eaten by the bear. Well that pic would be a 1% female in OLD, and on a level with the perfect specimen ex's ex I was talking about. Absolutely, the given realities of OLD, like so many things in life, can either be a "STOP" sign or a gauntlet thrown down in challenge. The first step, though, is to understand what the given realities are for the purpose of deciding whether the venue for the challenge is appropriate or a foolhardy waste of time (Don't fight the Green Knight). If I weren't of at least average height and some career accomplishment, I'd never do OLD as a tool, and would choose other social tools. I have friends who beat me like a dog with women in other venues, but because they are 5'8" and in a trade, they can't get anything going OLD. If a normal, average guy does decide to pick up the OLD gauntlet, and do it right, once you figure out the dynamic and groundrules, there's nothing better than winning out over a 6'3" surgeon who is banging everything on the site except the girl you have captivated, if only temporarily. And generally for OP and others, if there is one most important thing about OLD for those seeking a relationship, get your girl OFF the site fast as possible. Human nature is human nature, and you don't want to have a volume of incoming mails from the "perfect specimens" to compete with, even if most of them are just milking the site for sex, it will still mess up your efforts to stabilize a LTR with a quality GF by falsely inflating her perception of her value in the dating market.
carhill Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 I recall, when viewing one LS'er's inbox, a person probably most here would consider to be pretty attractive, I saw 161 new messages in *one day*. This was not on a mainstream site like match or eharmony, but it was a pay OLD site. One example. Your advice about getting the dynamic off OLD as quickly as possible is well-taken and is, retrospectively, what I always did. I moved to an exclusive dating scenario as expediently as possible, or discontinued. That perspective was respectful of the reality that I was and am an average guy who earns a living with his hands and didn't/doesn't have some lofty job title or social status in a society which greatly values those aspects of a person. That's called 'riding the bear'. I've had many (dozens) of women go 'poof' over the decades. TBH, nowadays, I expect it. It's like that Queen song, .
dasein Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 Wanted to add one more lesson I learned from that "perfect specimen." He actually fell for a girl met OLD, one far below himself in dating market value (never said he was the sharpest knife in the drawer), and did not have sex with her, or rather waited a bit I think (memory is foggy) out of a motive of wanting to "do things the right way." She dumped him after a few dates. Will leave the moral of the story up to the reader. EDIT, also wanted to add carhill, his ex wife I was with was getting 100+ emails a day from the site. She let me read many of them, gave me her password LOL. Also highly instructive.
lululucy Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 If you don't do this, and use the site in a more adult way, good for you. But suggesting that just because you are a certain way means all women OLD are is ridiculous. I'm sorry, I wasn't aware that I had a joined a personal forum where I was not supposed to share my personal experiences that may apply to other people's lives. My bad. In all seriousness, that many women playing games on a site is pretty disturbing, although it could also be argued that what you were doing (reading their messages to a guy who had married the woman you were banging) is equally disturbing. There are always going to be people with whom it is obvious that no-string-attached sex is possible but not a whole lot else. Are you saying that they should have ignored their sexual attraction or that they should have immediately slept with anyone else who also messaged them? We all want different things from different people. I gave up on OLD around April or May because I'd gone out with a few guys in a row (not at the same time, a few weeks apart) who would be awesome, want to see me all the time and then fade out. It wasn't worth the emotional rollercoaster. I do understand the OP's rant -- but at the time of posting it had only been ONE DAY within the first week of meeting without contact.. that's a little extreme to be upset over. Calling her out on that will turn her off faster than anything else he could possibly do.
dasein Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 I'm sorry, I wasn't aware that I had a joined a personal forum where I was not supposed to share my personal experiences that may apply to other people's lives. My bad. Spare the indignation, my opinion is that when people seek dating advice, they should get the advice from those who have done lots of dating in the target gender, not single examples of said gender. Feel free to disagree with that opinion all you like.
spinaroonie Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 (edited) dasein, you're bang on bro. Men are as faithful as their options. Women are as choosy as their options. With online dating, an attractive woman's options are seemingly infinite. In keeping with her hypergamous instincts, she's always on the lookout for the bigger, better deal. In the past a woman would stick with a guy after a good date because she had no other solid prospects lined up. Now she's more likely to stray. Online dating is a boon for guys who fit the media-promulgated aesthetic ideal (tall, muscular, white). Guys who don't measure up physically have tough road to ho. No matter how tight his verbal game, a short Asian guy will always be hard-up when Mr. Tom Brady lookalike is hollering at her from the next browser. Online dating is courtship distilled to its essence sans the filter of approach anxiety. A 1000 rejections in the real world would cripple a man. A 1000 rejections in the virtual world mean nothing. Thousands of thirsty dudes without approach anxiety + hypergamous women with infinite options is a recipe for dating disaster. Unhappy women who can't get a top guy to commit, and unhappy men who can't get a date. This phenomenon is unprecedented in human history. And if online dating loses its stigma and becomes mainstream, it could put the average guy's prospects in serious jeopardy. What % of single girls 20-29 today have online dating profiles? Edited December 6, 2011 by spinaroonie
Cypress25 Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 It's always funny to see women lining up here to opine on something they likely know little about, dating women. Ladies, hold forth on dating men or how the numbers of men you have dated and experience behave sexually, and leave the experience of dating women to those of us who have dated many women. But you're not talking about the experience of dating women. You're pretending you know how women think. You're speculating on what you think women are doing while they're sitting at a computer. You have no idea what they're really doing, you're just jumping to conclusions. Unless you have access to every woman's OLD account and you've read her emails and you know who she's contacting, you have no way of knowing how women are using OLD. But you like to pretend that you can read women's minds. By and large, women milk OLD sites for attention and trophy hunting, they readily pursue and have sex with the top profiles on a site, while deciding whether they can "settle for" the more average guys on their level on the site. The problem is, you don't actually know what most women are doing on dating sites. You're just guessing. So all of your "knowledge" that you've gained while dating women is based on wild assumptions. Every time a woman rejects you, you think "I bet she's just using this site for attention and an ego boost. She's not taking it seriously, that's why she didn't want me. That must be it." But that's not the truth. That's just what you tell yourself to feel better. The people who actually know what women are doing on dating sites are the women who use dating sites.
Author Tom81 Posted December 7, 2011 Author Posted December 7, 2011 I recall, when viewing one LS'er's inbox, a person probably most here would consider to be pretty attractive, I saw 161 new messages in *one day*. This was not on a mainstream site like match or eharmony, but it was a pay OLD site. One example. Your advice about getting the dynamic off OLD as quickly as possible is well-taken and is, retrospectively, what I always did. I moved to an exclusive dating scenario as expediently as possible, or discontinued. That perspective was respectful of the reality that I was and am an average guy who earns a living with his hands and didn't/doesn't have some lofty job title or social status in a society which greatly values those aspects of a person. That's called 'riding the bear'. I've had many (dozens) of women go 'poof' over the decades. TBH, nowadays, I expect it. It's like that Queen song, . Getting her off of OLD is probably a good idea. Not looking good, as I saw that she was online on the OLD and she still hasn't texted me back. Thinking I'm going to have to chalk this one up as a poof. You know, a simple I'm not interested text would have been nice and maybe a thanks for the dinner I guess, I'm asking for too much...oh well, on to the next
refurb Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 Dude, My advice? Get out there and date as much as you possibly can. Date multiple women at the same time. You'll learn a lot. This is what I've learned: - It's not important why a girl won't see you again, the only thing that matters is if she will or not. If not, move on. - There are MILLIONS of reasons why a girl won't see you again and about 50% of them have nothing to do with you. - First impressions are pretty weak. I don't get upset about a girl not wanting to see me again until we've been dating for at least a couple months. Why? Because your mind will turn a girl into "the one" when you don't even know her. You're not upset that she won't see you, you're upset that the fantasy in your head didn't come true. It's not easy, but dating is all about the grind. It's like a marathon, some miles are easy, some are hard, but you need to just keep plugging away. There just isn't any other way around it. RF
D-Lish Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 Getting her off of OLD is probably a good idea. Not looking good, as I saw that she was online on the OLD and she still hasn't texted me back. Thinking I'm going to have to chalk this one up as a poof. You know, a simple I'm not interested text would have been nice and maybe a thanks for the dinner I guess, I'm asking for too much...oh well, on to the next It's always best to keep your options open- even when you meet someone you think has potential.
Author Tom81 Posted December 7, 2011 Author Posted December 7, 2011 Dude, My advice? Get out there and date as much as you possibly can. Date multiple women at the same time. You'll learn a lot. This is what I've learned: - It's not important why a girl won't see you again, the only thing that matters is if she will or not. If not, move on. - There are MILLIONS of reasons why a girl won't see you again and about 50% of them have nothing to do with you. - First impressions are pretty weak. I don't get upset about a girl not wanting to see me again until we've been dating for at least a couple months. Why? Because your mind will turn a girl into "the one" when you don't even know her. You're not upset that she won't see you, you're upset that the fantasy in your head didn't come true. It's not easy, but dating is all about the grind. It's like a marathon, some miles are easy, some are hard, but you need to just keep plugging away. There just isn't any other way around it. RF Thanks for the comments. I got divorced a couple years ago from a 5 year marriage...didn't date much before that previous relationship. Still figuring out dating and the 'marathon' aspects of it. I get your point about not getting hung up on one too soon, too early. Confidence is definitely one of my flaws and a reason why I'm doing OLD. If this was one aspect that was better I might not have to rely on it as I feel meeting someone out somewhere would be a better situation then OLD.
soulm8 Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 So, I take it you're giving up without even following up tonight?
dispatch3d Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 I'm with soulm. Your over-reacting. Chill out.
Author Tom81 Posted December 7, 2011 Author Posted December 7, 2011 So, I take it you're giving up without even following up tonight? Haven't quite decided...if so I was going to do it tomorrow night. That should be enough time I guess...haven't messaged anything since Sunday. I kind of have the feeling that if she was interested she would have texted me by now. I know I have to chill more with this kind of thing. Have to learn from these experiences and have a bit more patience in the future.
soulm8 Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 Haven't quite decided...if so I was going to do it tomorrow night. That should be enough time I guess...haven't messaged anything since Sunday. I kind of have the feeling that if she was interested she would have texted me by now. I know I have to chill more with this kind of thing. Have to learn from these experiences and have a bit more patience in the future. Hey, we understand and we're all just trying to help you with our perspectives and experiences Mine coming from a lady who pays careful attention to how keen but calm a man is while getting to know him for the first few weeks. Let's face it... we're all pretty insecure when we actually hit it off with someone. It doesn't happen every date so when it does... we freak out a bit and think too much! If the dates went as well as you think they did... AND she actually had a project to complete... there is a chance (if she's feeling insecure) that she's waiting to see if you contact HER again - especially if the date on Friday ( the next day) was her idea. Now, you both have checked the OLD site... and have seen that the other has indeed been online. It's a simple call to see if she wants to get together this weekend. Depending on her answer... you'll know if she's a write off or not.
Author Tom81 Posted December 7, 2011 Author Posted December 7, 2011 Hey, we understand and we're all just trying to help you with our perspectives and experiences Mine coming from a lady who pays careful attention to how keen but calm a man is while getting to know him for the first few weeks. Let's face it... we're all pretty insecure when we actually hit it off with someone. It doesn't happen every date so when it does... we freak out a bit and think too much! If the dates went as well as you think they did... AND she actually had a project to complete... there is a chance (if she's feeling insecure) that she's waiting to see if you contact HER again - especially if the date on Friday ( the next day) was her idea. Now, you both have checked the OLD site... and have seen that the other has indeed been online. It's a simple call to see if she wants to get together this weekend. Depending on her answer... you'll know if she's a write off or not. Thanks for the advice and comments...definitely helps talking through things I'll check tomorrow and see...kind of need an answer on this one. I'll keep everyone updated
D-Lish Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 Thanks for the advice and comments...definitely helps talking through things I'll check tomorrow and see...kind of need an answer on this one. I'll keep everyone updated I'll chime in again.... Don't contact her again if you were the last one to seek contact and she said she'd get back to you (and didn't follow through). If I had a good time with a guy and wanted to see him again- I'd get back to him regardless of having something pressing I had to attend to. Did I miss anything or have you heard anything from her since Sunday? If not- don't chase her, just move on to the next.
Author Tom81 Posted December 7, 2011 Author Posted December 7, 2011 I'll chime in again.... Don't contact her again if you were the last one to seek contact and she said she'd get back to you (and didn't follow through). If I had a good time with a guy and wanted to see him again- I'd get back to him regardless of having something pressing I had to attend to. Did I miss anything or have you heard anything from her since Sunday? If not- don't chase her, just move on to the next. I was the last one to contact her on Sunday afternoon. Your point about if she really wanted to see me again she'd get back to me is what I've been saying. Even if I had a project or work, I'd find time to send a simple text.
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