Tom81 Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 So this is more of a vent, and not really looking for advice. I’ve been here for a couple years mostly lurking…but needed to get this off my chest. I had two great dates with this girl I met on OKcupid. Thursday night we went for drinks and ended up talking for like 5 hours. Time flew by and it was great. Because of schedules, we ended up on a second date on Friday. I know it was a bit too soon and only being the next night, but she suggested Friday night and I wasn’t going to argue. Took her out for dinner and wine and we ended up closing the place. Time again just flew by with us chatting for hours with very few awkward pauses. I picked her up and drove so I dropped her off at the end of the night which ended with a kiss. Nothing spectacular or anything, but better than just a hug…right? I thought things were going very well. Next morning I texted her and said I had a really good time and she responded in the same. Plan was to call her tonight and chat on the phone and set up some time this week for a 3rd date. Texted her this morning (Sun) to see if she’d be free for a call tonight. She said that she has to go to work and has to bring some work home to complete a project and so wouldn’t have time for a call. I texted her ok and good luck and let me know when would be a good time for me to call. After several hours I haven’t gotten a response. My opinion, she really wanted to talk she’d make 15-20 minutes to talk over the phone. So basically I just needed to write it out and vent…just confused how after two really good dates where we both seemed to click…it now appears that she’s going to just go “poof”. Just crazy I say. I really liked the girl and was pretty hopeful after the two dates. Have to really have a thick shell for dating these days Thanks for listening to my vent
spinaroonie Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 One common problem with cold approach pickup (and dating in general) is that you are automatically penalized for being a stranger. You can go out and have a great date with a girl, only to have all the attraction evaporate in a few days as you exchange text messages, trying to plan another date. The fact that you aren't someone that she sees regularly in her daily life means that it will be VERY difficult for her to feel any type of connection to you until you sleep with her. However, if you attempt to "forge" a connection by texting her continually, you will likely be punished for showing too much eagerness. It's a catch 22; this is why most traditional "dating" models don't lead to relationships. The best strategy is to mimic the communication strategies of high valued men and prey on her need for validation. This is what it means to be a "challenge." Since the chemistry from your first date will be forgotten in days, the only way to get her interest level up is going to be to plant the seed that you aren't sure about her yet and have other prospects. This means to avoid giving her any closure following the first date. Don't make plans for a second date on the first one, don't text her to make sure she got in ok at the end of the night, and don't text her the next day to thank her for a nice time. Wait at least a couple of days, unless she contacts you first...and even then, show restraint. Her need for validation is going to be the key to getting her out with you again, so you need to make her feel that tension and uncertainty. When you DO ask her out again, keep it short and sweet- don't try too hard to be witty and keep these dates SIMPLE. A man valued by many women will NOT bend over backwards trying to impress a girl he just met. Trying to impress her will send her running at this stage in the game. In the event that she can not make the day you suggest and doesn't offer an alternate day, say nothing. Either wait for her to text you again, or wait a week and contact her. If she cancels the second date abruptly, say nothing. The common thread in these responses is to treat disinterest with amplified disinterest- meaning that you won't even offer her closure by saying, "sure, that ok." This is the only way you can demonstrate value in these situations. I hate game playing, and it's a shame that two people that like each other can't just go out and be transparent with one another. Unfortunately, part of building a connection with a woman lies in having her feel insecure about your feelings towards her -- in the early stages, anyway. If you've had a string of (seemingly) great first dates, only to have the girl disappear afterwards, it is because you failed to leave room for doubt. You will have much better luck if you disappear for a bit immediately following the first date. -Jeffst1980
soulm8 Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 (edited) She said that she has to go to work and has to bring some work home to complete a project and so wouldn’t have time for a call. I texted her ok and good luck and let me know when would be a good time for me to call. After several hours I haven’t gotten a response. My opinion, she really wanted to talk she’d make 15-20 minutes to talk over the phone. It drives me nuts when guys do what you're doing. She told you she has a project to complete - she hasn't "poof'd". Give her some space! Your need to talk on the phone is not as important as her need to complete this project. Give her a call in a few days (Tuesday) to set up your next date... where's the fire to do so?? .... and as for what spinaroonie suggested... don't bother with playing games! She's not playing a game - she's trying to complete a project for crying out loud. Edited December 5, 2011 by soulm8
soulm8 Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 Thursday night we went for drinks and ended up talking for like 5 hours. Time flew by and it was great. Because of schedules, we ended up on a second date on Friday. You went out Thursday and Friday night (for hours)... rather than assume the worst... why not assume she has a deadline for this project on Monday? Is that so hard?
Author Tom81 Posted December 5, 2011 Author Posted December 5, 2011 You went out Thursday and Friday night (for hours)... rather than assume the worst... why not assume she has a deadline for this project on Monday? Is that so hard? I'm still giving her the benefit of the doubt...but in this day and age, one can simply just text back easily and respond back And also, I know that if I really liked a girl after a couple dates, a work project wouldn't stop me from chatting on the phone for a 15 minutes...or saying, sorry can't talk tonight, how about tomorrow night. I do get what you're saying though and it's a good point, it's just I don't have a good feeling from today that's all. Like I said, I just needed to vent somewhere
Eddie Edirol Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 I'm still giving her the benefit of the doubt...but in this day and age, one can simply just text back easily and respond back And also, I know that if I really liked a girl after a couple dates, a work project wouldn't stop me from chatting on the phone for a 15 minutes...or saying, sorry can't talk tonight, how about tomorrow night. I do get what you're saying though and it's a good point, it's just I don't have a good feeling from today that's all. Like I said, I just needed to vent somewhere Thats how it is now, you go out on dates, and the woman acts like she is into you when she really isnt. She is probably multi dating and is out with some other guy she likes more. I take it as this, anything that isnt a yes, is a no. If she didnt suggest alternative plans, she isnt interested. And spin is right, showing amplified disinterest works, even with a flaker that needs validation.
spinaroonie Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 OP met her on an online dating site so traditional dating models go out the window. Posted this on another thread, it's worth restating here - Online dating - not surprised. If she's young, attractive, and you haven't sealed the deal by the third date, there's a good chance you won't see her again. Girls online have a steady stream of suitors knocking at her door. She got hit up by a bigger, better deal offering her dick. Here's my post from earlier: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t304536/ Been seeing more and more of this lately - guy and girl have a great first date, no lay, never hears from her again. Wonder how much of it has to do with the "mainstreamization" of online dating in recent years? Any girl with a POF/OKC profile she has a stready stream of suitors knocking at her door. Rest assured there are hundreds of better looking thirsty dudes with more status hitting her up. These guys won't commit but they'll hit it and quit it. Men are as faithful as their options. Women are as choosy as their options. With online dating, an attractive woman's options are seemingly infinite. In keeping with her hypergamous instincts, she's always on the lookout for the bigger, better deal. In the past a woman would stick with a guy after a good date because she had no other solid prospects lined up. Now she's more likely to stray. ... Thousands of thirsty dudes without approach anxiety + hypergamous women with infinite options is a recipe for dating disaster. Unhappy girls who can't get a top guy to commit, and unhappy guys who can't get (another) date. This phenomenon is unprecedented in human history. This is the reality for most dudes in 2011.
Ninjainpajamas Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 Yeah it sucks man, but you can never show too much interest early on. I just got bit in the ass recently, I've never been hit with the rejection stick but since I thought the connection was genuine I pursued stronger than I normally ever would. Result...email reply 3 days later. I'm dumbfounded because not only is this the first time it's happened to me and I don't even know how to deal with it, but it just so happens to be the time I let myself go because I thought this chick was a little insecure and so I was going to satisfy her needs to be aggressive and responsive. Amped it up too much though, got back to her too quickly and eagerly and now I realized I shot myself in the foot. Whenever I don't really care or am not too worried I can change the colors of the sky...I knew that If I ever became really eager though that would turn out differently, I really liked this girl so unlike with other women I crossed that magical line and bam...lesson learned and this sucks too much ass to really ever want to take the risk again. Not sure why it works this way but it does and I have a pretty successful record with intriguing women, so this is humiliating and humbling at the same time and taking it really hard for a man at the age of 31.
Author Tom81 Posted December 5, 2011 Author Posted December 5, 2011 OP met her on an online dating site so traditional dating models go out the window. Posted this on another thread, it's worth restating here - Online dating - not surprised. If she's young, attractive, and you haven't sealed the deal by the third date, there's a good chance you won't see her again. Girls online have a steady stream of suitors knocking at her door. She got hit up by a bigger, better deal offering her dick. Here's my post from earlier: This is the reality for most dudes in 2011. Yep, like I said, just needed to vent a little. It's good hearing from others with similar stories or situations...they say "misery loves company"
ditzchic Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 Why does everyone have to look at everything as a game?? Here's the deal guys. If a girl likes you, she will make time for you. If she is iffy about it or straight up doesn't like you, she won't. If she likes you she will take your calls and return your texts. If she doesn't, she won't. It's simple. Girls are quite bendy with our "rules" when it comes to someone we feel chemistry with. If there is no chemistry we stick to the rules. You can analyze what you should and shouldn't do all you'd like but it's futile. It is black and white. If you want to text her, text her. If you want to call her, call her. You will have your answer in how/if she responds. Personally, I have never let the "rules" get in the way and sway me when it came to someone I really liked. As far as I know, neither have any of my other female friends. The "rules" are how we make ourselves feel less heartless when we just aren't feeling it with someone.
monkey00 Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 Yep, like I said, just needed to vent a little. It's good hearing from others with similar stories or situations...they say "misery loves company" yeah. Sometimes it's easier to give out advice than to take our own. Frustrating!
Imajerk17 Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 She hasn't gone 'poof' yet. You went out Thursday, Friday, and communicated yesterday. Maybe she wanted to catch her breath today. I would wait until Tuesday or Wednesday before I'd consider it 'poofing'.
soulm8 Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 she suggested Friday night and I wasn’t going to argue. Next morning I texted her and said I had a really good time and she responded in the same. Plan was to call her tonight and chat on the phone and set up some time this week for a 3rd date. Texted her this morning (Sun) to see if she’d be free for a call tonight. She said that she has to go to work and has to bring some work home to complete a project and so wouldn’t have time for a call. I texted her ok and good luck and let me know when would be a good time for me to call. After several hours I haven’t gotten a response. My opinion, she really wanted to talk she’d make 15-20 minutes to talk over the phone. Based on your post, she will get back to you when she's finished her project or it's a good time to talk on the phone. Everyone has preferences for how frequently they text and talk on the phone... you can't assume she likes texts every morning and calls every night. I personally don't like either as it feels like the other person is checking up on me rather than genuinely wanting to talk. It has a needy/clingy feel to it. When getting to know someone new, there's a fine line on too much contact. You really have to balance it and pay attention to how the other is responding. For goodness sake, you also must keep your wits about you and not allow insecurity to ruin the dance. She's not playing games... otherwise, she never would've suggested a 2nd date the next evening. She replied to your text that she had to work today and finish a project. Your last text (and I HOPE it was your last) said to let you know when would be a good time for you to call her. WAIT and see when and if she replies... but don't jump down her throat and make assumptions because she hasn't gotten back to you yet. Like I said, give her the night and tomorrow (very reasonable AND speaks volumes on your maturity and confidence) to wrap up the project. If you haven't heard from her by Tuesday... follow up... but not in a confrontational way. Pester her and she'll write you off. Trust her and this could continue to be the great thing you hoped it was. I'm still giving her the benefit of the doubt...but in this day and age, one can simply just text back easily and respond back And also, I know that if I really liked a girl after a couple dates, a work project wouldn't stop me from chatting on the phone for a 15 minutes...or saying, sorry can't talk tonight, how about tomorrow night. I do get what you're saying though and it's a good point, it's just I don't have a good feeling from today that's all. Like I said, I just needed to vent somewhere How many phone calls have you shared with her? She may not know that a 15 minute phone call is all you have in mind. She may think based on your dates together, that the call could last for hours... and she doesn't have hours right now.
D-Lish Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 You went out 2 nights in a row, There is no cause for concern. Wanting to talk on the phone so quickly after might come off as being a little needy this early on. Just sit tight and be patient.
Cypress25 Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 You could have just called her, instead of texting her to schedule a phone call. And if she doesn't pick up, leave a message. Isn't that how most people communicate by phone? Also, why do you need to chat on the phone for 15-20 minutes just to arrange your next date? Maybe she's just not a phone person and she doesn't want to get stuck on the phone with you when she has work to do. You may be coming on a bit too strong, so just relax and wait for her to call you. I'm sure she will, if you give her some time to breathe.
carhill Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 OP, got the vent and have two relief valves to suggest.... Call when you like; don't 'set up' phone calls. Just dial it. Enjoy the company of other women.
Pizzaman81 Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 ^ this I know it's hard, but keep yourself busy too. Stop constantly texting and phoning her like that. I believe in easing into a relationship. Slow but assertive.
Author Tom81 Posted December 5, 2011 Author Posted December 5, 2011 You went out 2 nights in a row, There is no cause for concern. Wanting to talk on the phone so quickly after might come off as being a little needy this early on. Just sit tight and be patient. Thanks...yeah, I'm going to be patient. My other friend has told me to give her the benefit of the doubt...I'm doing that, but also wanted to vent a bit. I'm just the kind of person that would easily text someone...but you're right I don't want to come off as being needy. Just got a little too hopeful with this one I guess as the first two dates went really well
Author Tom81 Posted December 5, 2011 Author Posted December 5, 2011 Based on your post, she will get back to you when she's finished her project or it's a good time to talk on the phone. Everyone has preferences for how frequently they text and talk on the phone... you can't assume she likes texts every morning and calls every night. I personally don't like either as it feels like the other person is checking up on me rather than genuinely wanting to talk. It has a needy/clingy feel to it. When getting to know someone new, there's a fine line on too much contact. You really have to balance it and pay attention to how the other is responding. For goodness sake, you also must keep your wits about you and not allow insecurity to ruin the dance. She's not playing games... otherwise, she never would've suggested a 2nd date the next evening. She replied to your text that she had to work today and finish a project. Your last text (and I HOPE it was your last) said to let you know when would be a good time for you to call her. WAIT and see when and if she replies... but don't jump down her throat and make assumptions because she hasn't gotten back to you yet. Like I said, give her the night and tomorrow (very reasonable AND speaks volumes on your maturity and confidence) to wrap up the project. If you haven't heard from her by Tuesday... follow up... but not in a confrontational way. Pester her and she'll write you off. Trust her and this could continue to be the great thing you hoped it was. How many phone calls have you shared with her? She may not know that a 15 minute phone call is all you have in mind. She may think based on your dates together, that the call could last for hours... and she doesn't have hours right now. Good advice and great points...Thanks. That was my last text and I'm sending another... I'll definitely leave it up to her until Tuesday at least.
Author Tom81 Posted December 5, 2011 Author Posted December 5, 2011 fine line one too much contact. fine line means its a game. a little bitty too much and its pushy, litty bitty not enough and hes not interested. she should have told him tuesday or wednesday or whatever day. by not, its a game. Yeah, I also do hear what you're saying too. I mean she could have easily have said call Tuesday or Wednesday....does seem a bit 'game' like.
dasein Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 a project to complete. what the hell does that mean? is a new guy the project? give a girl space is code for its over. shes playing a game and its not a game i like. Yeah, thought the same. Why would someone even be dating two nights in a row with an important project looming? Makes no sense. The "project" is probably hoping for a call from the guy she banged Saturday night for a repeat. Seriously, guys don't be naive. Women today are very clear about whether they are interested or not, and if you haven't gotten significantly physical by the second date, maybe even had sex, unless they are religious or an outlier, they may be interested enough to take your money and attention if "Mr. Big" doesn't call, but not interested enough to place you on top of the heap (or on top of her for that matter). Also stop texting and chatting between dates, FFS. Keep things binary, keep yourself sane. Good luck with the next one OP, or on the slight chance this one was telling the truth, good luck with her.
Author Tom81 Posted December 5, 2011 Author Posted December 5, 2011 Also stop texting and chatting between dates, FFS. Keep things binary, keep yourself sane. Good luck with the next one OP, or on the slight chance this one was telling the truth, good luck with her. Thanks...I guess, like most people I'm sure, they'd like to hear one way or another. I know silence is an answer but not a cool one.
Cypress25 Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 Women today are very clear about whether they are interested or not, and if you haven't gotten significantly physical by the second date, maybe even had sex, unless they are religious or an outlier, they may be interested enough to take your money and attention if "Mr. Big" doesn't call, but not interested enough to place you on top of the heap (or on top of her for that matter). That's obviously not true. Most women aren't ready for sex by the second date, no matter how much they like the guy. I would never move that fast with anyone because I'm looking for a real relationship, not a one-night stand. I'm not religious, but I'm not the type to jump into bed with a guy I barely know. A kiss on the second date is fine, but the guy has to initiate it. I'm not bold enough to initiate the first kiss. Believe it or not, real life doesn't resemble an episode of Sex and the City.
soulm8 Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 Amen sister! (and I'm not religious either) Besides not being ready to hit the sheets with a new lover in a few dates... I find it to be a turn off when sex is pushed too soon.
lululucy Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 Soulm8 is completely right. This crap about how women on okc have hundreds of suitors lined up so they're looking for the next big thing? Excuse me? I spent four months-ish this year dating on okc. I wasn't looking for the next big thing, I was looking for chemistry. If there was someone I went on a few successful dates with, I stopped talking to other men on the site. There was one guy who reminds me of this story -- we had two really great dates in a week. He texted me the next day after our first date and asked me out for the following day (I believe it was wednesday and friday dates). Saturday morning I was working and got off work to two texts. I was going to a friend's birthday and didn't answer until later in the night. He asked if I could talk on the phone and in addition to being with my friends, I'm not a phone person. He questioned my hesitation to a phone call -- and now I was starting to get irritated. I'd just met him that week so whether or not I liked him (and I did), I wasn't going to cancel plans made months in advance. I'm also a university student, so Sunday was always my scheduled homework day and not available for dates. I told him Sunday that I am not a phone person but we could text, and he accused me of being with another man. I told him I was busy doing an assignment and he again asked why I couldn't talk. This pestering was too much given the fact that we'd only had two dates, even though they were amazing. By Monday night, I told him I wasn't interested -- the harrassment made my interest dry up fast. Just give her a few days. Like soulm8 said, if she is as great as you think, you guys can have a date next weekend and it will be all the better for having waited to see each other. If she isn't interested, better you know now anyway. Phone her Tuesday night, no texts.
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