Does the "average" guy really have that much trouble with dating and relationships?

[somedude81]

Something to think about...

 

Every single time a girl is having sex (in a heterosexual context) a guy is having sex too.

 

For every girl in a heterosexual relationship, there is a guy in a heterosexual relationship too.

 

Do the math.

And of course no man wants to have sex with more than one woman. When he finds a woman, he's committed to her...

[dispatch3d]

It probably is just a bad attitude for those guys. Just being too negative about why things happen, too negative about what girls are doing, and interpreting the signals poorly.

 

That said, your facebook test isn't very scientific. You probably have more girl friends than guy friends, for one. You may also mostly be friends with people who are couples, and not friends with single guys. Basically your sample is very biased.

 

Anyhow, dating is a lot easier for women. When we go to bars, we don't get hit on by 10 guys in a night. Mind you, that doesn't happen to all women, but it happens for some. For guys, if we don't take an active role in our dating lives then nothing is going to happen.

[dasein]

I'm sorry, but I really don't know any truly homely/average looking women who were able to consistently sleep with any really good looking/rich player type for more than one or two occasions.

 

Most of the average non obese women I know, whatever their value in the dating pool, can and do have sex with men significantly above them in dating pool value on a regular basis. I believe that is the subtext behind a goodly number of "getting feelings for my FWB," "Why did he fade out?" "Guy won't commit" posts here. I believe that if we saw the actual women and men in question in many of those threads, we would be doing a massive collective group eyeroll. Could be wrong of course, it has happened LOL.

 

Yet those types of threads don't exist here for men somehow, or are outliers. Why not? Because -average- men generally don't have sex with -above average- women available to them. Average women do.

 

If they lust after and hold out for these top 5% guys, it is in a manner no different than the vast majority of men who love their girlfriends but still lust after Victoria's Secret models. Everyone, regardless of gender, will lust for whatever they perceive to be their top 5% in the opposite gender. And likewise, I've known plenty of guys who hold out for women way out of their league too.

 

Nice try. No. "Lust after" isn't the same as "dump what one has for the chance of getting with them." Women dump men on the off chance of getting an unobtainable guy every day, men rarely do this.

 

The "upgrade realization" didn't really emerge in my life until post 24, so give yourself a couple of years in the workplace once you get out of law school. The first time your GF smiles when a power partner puts his arm around her, or when your close friend loses a fiance to a guy up the totem pole at her workplace, you will know instantly -exactly- what I am referring to here, and it will exacerbate throughout your twenties. Women, not men, are the upgraders in our social system.

 

and once more, you and I must have different experiences of US social culture, because I've known 0 men who held out for women way out of their league and many women who do. Why do you think the old cliche' "Men marry hoping the woman will never change, and women marry hoping the man will change," came into being? Where do you think the kernel (or mountain as the case may be) of truth in that cliche' resides?

[Feelsgoodman]

I agree that your social circle can influence your dating life. Your descriptions of North American behaviors are pretty off-base, however. What about all the people that leave all their hometowns and go to college, grad school, or move to different parts of the country for work?

They are the ones complaining about how there are no good men/women left.

 

North Americans have a very closed off mentality. I base this on my observations having lived in a number of countries. In other parts of the world, people are generally much more welcoming of outsiders. For example, if there's a new co-worker from another city or country, people would go out of their way to make him feel welcome, invite him to parties, etc even if they barely know him. In North America, this sort of thing rarely happens. North Americans have this innate fear/suspicion towards strangers. In general, I find North Americans to be fairly cold and unfriendly people (the only ones worse, from my experience anyway, are the French). This explains why there are so many lonely and unhappy people here.

[dasein]

In general, I find North Americans to be fairly cold and unfriendly people (the only ones worse, from my experience anyway, are the French). This explains why there are so many lonely and unhappy people here.

 

Agree and disagree. North America is the most heterogenous population in the world, still very much a melting pot, and there are as many cultural standards and social climates as there are towns on the map.

 

Agree in that N.A. people have been subject to a harsh and relentless amount of social engineering by the government, media and corporate marketers. IMO there is more and more powerfully placed internal propaganda in the United States than anywhere else in the world. When people are constantly told they are missing something in life, that they are bad, or that their neighbor is out to stab them, they do become more cold, lonely and unhappy eventually.

[Els]

Eh, I know more average-looking men than women who are in Rs.

 

I also know more student/unemployed women in Rs though, so it's pretty much fair either way.

[TheBigQuestion]

 

 

Nice try. No. "Lust after" isn't the same as "dump what one has for the chance of getting with them." Women dump men on the off chance of getting an unobtainable guy every day, men rarely do this.

 

The "upgrade realization" didn't really emerge in my life until post 24, so give yourself a couple of years in the workplace once you get out of law school. The first time your GF smiles when a power partner puts his arm around her, or when your close friend loses a fiance to a guy up the totem pole at her workplace, you will know instantly -exactly- what I am referring to here, and it will exacerbate throughout your twenties. Women, not men, are the upgraders in our social system.

 

and once more, you and I must have different experiences of US social culture, because I've known 0 men who held out for women way out of their league and many women who do. Why do you think the old cliche' "Men marry hoping the woman will never change, and women marry hoping the man will change," came into being? Where do you think the kernel (or mountain as the case may be) of truth in that cliche' resides?

 

I have not yet reached the age where my friends and acquaintances are getting divorced, since most of them aren't even married yet. So I have to defer to your statements for now. With that said, I really do wonder if these experiences of yours are actually the norm or an anomaly. At my age, I haven't known very many people, male or female, who have dumped their SOs because they had an opportunity to score with a rich guy/hot guy/really hot woman. I've seen men AND women "upgrade" and "downgrade" without any discernible pattern. In most of the cases where someone trades up (or down), they were already cheating on their SO with the new prospect, so it's not like they were holding out for a mere opportunity. It's also worth repeating that, contrary to what many people will say on LS, people have a strong tendency to end up with those of similar physical attraction and income level. I also feel like you fail to account for a lot of factors when you come to your conclusions.

 

Going back to what you define as success. It appears pretty lofty and it's not something that most men or women ever master to the extent you claim. The definition of success that is most relevant to the frustrated LS men is being able to get dates and being able to create mutual attraction that has strong potential for a relationship. As someone in a relationship, my definition of success with women is to maintain as strong a relationship as possible. If I am ever to become single again, my definition of success would simply be to avoid sleeping with women that looked like the two uggos I slept with in college.

 

I think a lot of LS regulars are miffed at the fact that whenever a woman makes an observation that suggests what I'm maintaining, it's met with complete and utter disbelief. Such women are called fabricators or, at the very best, guilty of only hanging out in a very privileged and/or unusual crowd. It's pretty much what happened to me in this thread at the hands of Wolf, who cannot seem to conceive of a reality outside his own. My question is, since virtually everyone here is sharing anecdotal evidence, why do so many male posters fail to admit the possibility that it's extraordinary difficult to ascertain whats "normal" as far as the male dating experience is concerned?

Edited December 5, 2011 by TheBigQuestion

[nofool4u]

So honestly, what gives? Are the bitter, angry dudes here just seeing what their eyes want to see and tuning out reality, or was I somehow blessed with having friends and acquaintances who all happen to be within this magical 10% of men who sleep with 90% of the women?

 

Nah, there will be guys that think the women of the world are against them because they think they go for the bad boys. But they should take comfort in the fact that the bad boys end up hurting them;)

 

Seriously though, the average guy doesn't have a problem with dates. Its just that everyone needs to find someone who is like minded. If you have the "average guy" that wants a superficial party girl, well then of course that isn't going to go well.

 

Attraction is important, but there is a difference between an "average joe" trying to date someone who is attractive to them, and that, for example, parties or hangs out at clubs. As opposed to a woman who is attractive to them, but isn't about partying or finding the perfect adonis (not that an average joe can't be a stud, they just don't go for the bad boy activities).

 

Like me, I will go after a woman I'm attracted to, but not if they are into partying or clubbing. Because its the people who frequent those activities that will go after the bad boy/girl.

 

So those complaining of not finding someone worthy to date need to look more at the social interactions of the people to which they are attracted.

 

Its kind of silly for an average guy to complain that the women who wear tight mini skirts with a blouse they are busting out of, who obviously thinks way too much of themselves to think that kind of woman is going to be good relationship material. If it walks like a duck..

 

There are attractive women that want a good man, and there are attractive women that are always looking for the bigger better deal, and they aren't too hard to spot. Go for the latter, and the guy really has nothing to complain about.

Edited December 5, 2011 by nofool4u

[somedude81]

Nah, there will be guys that think the women of the world are against them because they think they go for the bad boys. But they should take comfort in the fact that the bad boys end up hurting them;)

I really, really hope that the girl I was chasing for two years but ultimately rejected me, ends up getting her heart destroyed by a guy. Even better would be if she came to me, wanting me to take her, and I would just laugh in her face.

[TheBigQuestion]

your research smells and is meaningless. look at one persons friedns and thats typical. then you parade it out as research. what a fruad. what a lying sack of sh*t.

 

I love you too.

[somedude81]

why were you chasing a girl for 2 years? didn't you get the hint?

Long ass story.

 

I thought she was the one and all that nonsense.

[jobaba]

I really, really hope that the girl I was chasing for two years but ultimately rejected me, ends up getting her heart destroyed by a guy. Even better would be if she came to me, wanting me to take her, and I would just laugh in her face.

 

Not gonna happen.

 

Nothing bad ever happens to the kids in high school who ridicule other kids and make their lives miserable.

 

And nothing bad ever happens to the women who men flippantly while that man is dying inside for her. Those women may never face rejection again before they get married.

 

And nothing good will come to the 'nice, undesirable guys' who are getting rejected unless they work their a@@ of for it.

 

There is no such thing as karma in life. At all...

[Nexus One]

Long ass story.

 

I thought she was the one and all that nonsense.

 

Given the time frame you spend on every girl, it's like you think every one of them must be the one.

 

Granted though, that's a loyal attitude and is to be commended in my opinion, but it's not working for you, you need to move on faster in my opinion when a girl isn't showing interest. Many of those women are wasting your time.

 

Some women like to have male friends. Understand that some of them like to be emotionally nurtured by you when they're not getting that from the man/men they're having sex with. It's no shame to act like a man and walk away from that.

 

Because sometimes a man doesn't need a friend, sometimes he needs a lover. And we all here know you need a lover. That goes for me too by the way, that's why I wouldn't settle with being friendzoned by a woman who I had a romantic interest in. If she wants emotional nurture, then she should find a partner that can give that to her, but not f*ck some other guy while using me for her emotional needs. Sometimes you need to be man enough to walk away from that, instead of sitting around and taking the fact that you would love her and nurture her, while she complains to you about her sexual partner and how her emotional needs aren't getting met, yet at the same time she keeps f*cking him and using you for her emotional needs.

 

Look, if a man agrees to be friends with a woman who friendzoned him, then it's his own decision to be in that situation, but it would grace her if she protected the guy from himself by keeping him at a distance, so that he can move on.

 

If something isn't working, then you need to adapt your strategy, perhaps even completely renew your strategy, until you have something that works.

Edited December 5, 2011 by Nexus One

[dasein]

My question is, since virtually everyone here is sharing anecdotal evidence, why do so many male posters fail to admit the possibility that it's extraordinary difficult to ascertain whats "normal" as far as the male dating experience is concerned?

 

Well see, my anecdotes are true and no one else's are.

 

Seriously, sure, I haven't lived every single place or dated women from every state and town, most of what is posted here (other than my feminism rants which are not anecdotal in the least LOL) is anecdotal. It's quite possible we have had differing experiences of dumping, upgrading, etc.

[somedude81]

Not gonna happen.

 

Nothing bad ever happens to the kids in high school who ridicule other kids and make their lives miserable.

 

And nothing bad ever happens to the women who men flippantly while that man is dying inside for her. Those women may never face rejection again before they get married.

 

And nothing good will come to the 'nice, undesirable guys' who are getting rejected unless they work their a@@ of for it.

 

There is no such thing as karma in life. At all...

Maybe it will, maybe it won't. Still would be nice.

 

Given the time frame you spend on every girl, it's like you think every one of them must be the one.

Not at all.

 

I've been rejected by roughly 20 women that I really liked. She's the only that I actually thought about the future with.

 

The next longest I chased a girl was for about a year, but I never felt as close to her as I did with this girl.

 

but it's not working for you, you need to move on faster in my opinion when a girl isn't showing interest. Many of those women are wasting your time.

I do agree with you here.

 

The main reason I spent so much time with her, was that I was hoping she would fall for me. I also really enjoyed her company. I would have hung out with her even if I wasn't attracted to her.

Some women like to have male friends. Understand that some of them like to be emotionally nurtured by you when they're not getting that from the man/men they're having sex with. It's no shame to act like a man and walk away from that.

I have never emotionally nurtured a woman. I don't do the emotional tampon thing.

 

We simply enjoyed each others company and had fun. She never came to me with any of her problems, which probably wasn't a good sign.

Because sometimes a man doesn't need a friend, sometimes he needs a lover. And we all here know you need a lover. That goes for me too by the way, that's why I wouldn't settle with being friendzoned by a woman who I had a romantic interest in. If she wants emotional nurture, then she should find a partner that can give that to her, but not f*ck some other guy while using me for her emotional needs. Sometimes you need to be man enough to walk away from that, instead of sitting around and taking the fact that you would love her and nurture her, while she complains to you about her sexual partner and how her emotional needs aren't getting met, yet at the same time she keeps f*cking him and using you for her emotional needs.

A big problem for me, is that I need a friend and a lover. I was trying to make her do both roles.

 

And no, she wasn't f*cking other guys. She was single for the entire time I knew her. If she was with a dude, I would have disappeared. I refuse to spend any time with a girl who's getting her rocks off somewhere else.

 

But yeah, I'm done being in friendzones.

[jobaba]

The main reason I spent so much time with her, was that I was hoping she would fall for me. I also really enjoyed her company. I would have hung out with her even if I wasn't attracted to her.

 

I have never emotionally nurtured a woman. I don't do the emotional tampon thing.

 

We simply enjoyed each others company and had fun. She never came to me with any of her problems, which probably wasn't a good sign.

 

A big problem for me, is that I need a friend and a lover. I was trying to make her do both roles.

 

And no, she wasn't f*cking other guys. She was single for the entire time I knew her. If she was with a dude, I would have disappeared. I refuse to spend any time with a girl who's getting her rocks off somewhere else.

 

But yeah, I'm done being in friendzones.

 

Dude, you're life story could be mine.

 

Each of the major women I've fallen for, I just enjoyed being in their company. Each was single. None of them came to me with boyfriend problems or other significant emotional baggage. My attraction to them grew slowly.

 

Is it so wrong to believe that the woman might possibly 'feel the same way' in this type of situation?

 

I'll be honest with you. I've had more feelings for and more of a 'relationship' with at least two of those women than women I've 'really dated'.

 

The only difference is we didn't f@ck...

[irc333]

I think they just focus on a small subset of women. I'm in a rural area and do ok. I probably would do great in a big city. I have some difficulty due to a woman that was my first experience still bad mouthing me but its not affecting me that bad. I see guys on here and think WTF. I was a virgin until 24 and now I'm doing great considering the area I live. Its just they tend to focus on the rejections and bad aspects of dating.

 

I live in a rural area, however, any woman that's hot, or even attractive.....is married or spoken for, I pretty much guarantee that. It's usually someone they've dated in Highschool...and now in their 30's still married to the same person, with kids of course.

 

THe other are just in long term relationship, rural areas just aren't the same when you try to approach the woman in a public venue like a library, bookstore, stores, etc.

 

Where as large metropolitan areas, you probably see available women in every other book aisle. lol

 

It's kind of odd, being someone like my age, late 30's, and seeing under 25 women pushing a baby carriage. with a wedding ring on.

 

THis area is not big on a social scene, bars/clubs close at 9 pm , and on weekends 11 pm.

 

The rest of the population, people that look like they are inbreds or someone from "My redneck wedding" lol

[irc333]

Good points, this is probably a more mature way of developing a relationship with a woman, while others seem to move rather quickly. Which is why you see divorces constantly. People don't spend time being friends and familiarizing themselves with each other.

 

There's this one woman at one time I had an interest in dating....but the feeling wasn't mutual, but she did enjoy my company, and I hers.

 

It's funny, because she's always dodging guys that try to get her to do thing with them, but she has no interest in them, and finds way to blow them off....but likes spending her time with me. I guess it's because I never pressure her for anything romantic. So she's become very comfortable with me.

 

We laugh at each others antics, sometimes are sides are splitting. Some people saw us together, and some lady friend gave me a thumbs up (after she had left) "Hey, was that you're date?! SHe's cute, way to go" and gave me a thumbs up. lol

 

People would probably assume we're dating if you were to see each other getting along so well.

 

We are on the same page with the same sense of humor, but she never did have any interest in my romantically. For some reason I'm okay with that I suppose, but shes' not using me as any kind of emotional sponge. Though, it would've been nice to date her, but not sure now...think that is water under the bridge.

 

But she has a couple of orbiters she tends to avoid.

 

I'm kind of using her as a basis for comparison if I ever run into another woman, with a similar personality.

 

 

 

 

 

Dude, you're life story could be mine.

 

Each of the major women I've fallen for, I just enjoyed being in their company. Each was single. None of them came to me with boyfriend problems or other significant emotional baggage. My attraction to them grew slowly.

 

Is it so wrong to believe that the woman might possibly 'feel the same way' in this type of situation?

 

I'll be honest with you. I've had more feelings for and more of a 'relationship' with at least two of those women than women I've 'really dated'.

 

The only difference is we didn't f@ck...

[nofool4u]

I really, really hope that the girl I was chasing for two years but ultimately rejected me, ends up getting her heart destroyed by a guy. Even better would be if she came to me, wanting me to take her, and I would just laugh in her face.

 

But do you say this simply because she rejected you, or because she is the type that goes for bad boys?

[nofool4u]

And nothing good will come to the 'nice, undesirable guys' who are getting rejected unless they work their a@@ of for it.

 

Well, not entirely true. I believe that once women get older and they reap the consequences of their choices, they end up desiring someone that will treat them well.

 

Only problem, this type of guy should now be very selective with the women that do this.

[nofool4u]

I live in a rural area, however, any woman that's hot, or even attractive.....is married or spoken for, I pretty much guarantee that.

 

True. And I also live in a small town. The benefit on the other side, however, is that you know the character of the people that are no longer married. Just like I knew one woman that was interested in me as not being impartial to sleeping with other women's husbands. I flat out had to tell her thats why I didn't want to date her when she wouldn't leave me alone.

 

So the benefit of a small town is, you have a better idea of the type of people you date.

[somedude81]

But do you say this simply because she rejected you, or because she is the type that goes for bad boys?

She kept telling me that the reason she wouldn't date me, was because she wasn't interested in dating anybody.

 

So if she found a guy that would change her mind and make her want to date, I hope he breaks her heart.

[Stung]

She kept telling me that the reason she wouldn't date me, was because she wasn't interested in dating anybody.

 

So if she found a guy that would change her mind and make her want to date, I hope he breaks her heart.

 

This is really terribly mean-spirited. From what you have said, she never did anything bad to you--she just didn't feel the same way for you that you did for her. It's sad that you wish her harm for that.

[ThaWholigan]

She kept telling me that the reason she wouldn't date me, was because she wasn't interested in dating anybody.

 

So if she found a guy that would change her mind and make her want to date, I hope he breaks her heart.

 

Don't like that, there's no need to wish her that kind of pain. There are ways to make yourself more attractive to women you know, don't let your issues take you over

[Elysian Powder]

This is really terribly mean-spirited. From what you have said, she never did anything bad to you--she just didn't feel the same way for you that you did for her. It's sad that you wish her harm for that.

 

sexual frustration can lead men to acts of violence;

 

On a website registered in his name,[7] Sodini chronicled over a nine-month period his rejections by women and his severe sexual frustration. "Who knows why? I am not ugly or too weird. No sex since July 1990 either (I was 29)," he writes. "Last time I slept all night with a girlfriend it was 1982. Girls and women don't even give me a second look ANYWHERE." About his problems with women, he wrote: "Women just don't like me. There are 30 million desirable women in the US (my estimate) and I cannot find one."

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Sodini

 

Prostitution should be made legal and affordable to all beta and omega males like somedude81. It would leave only the Alphas to approach women, and the low value males wouldn't go crazy.