Janesays Posted December 3, 2011 Posted December 3, 2011 Threads like this make me sad. There are men out there who very obviously flat out hate women, it seems. I love, love, love to make my boyfriend happy! Frequent sex, back rubs, little 'I love you' gifts, whatever I can do to make him smile. Isn't that what relationships are all about?
ShannonMI Posted December 3, 2011 Posted December 3, 2011 Indeed it does. A lifetime of experiences has taught me, save for a very select few circumstances, most recently the funerals of a couple friends and the death of my mom, to do it privately. It is a learned behavior, socialized into me by a lifetime of interactions with other people, men and women both. IMO, part of 'treating a man right' is accepting and valuing the breadth of his humanity and human responses but, so far, it's been a mixed bag. I've noted, such learned behavior can be un-learned, but it is not a simple process. Work continues. Absolutely. There is no shame in crying. Yes, treating a man right is allowing him to open up and be emotional. Unfortunately not to many men can do that and not many women can handle it.
Woggle Posted December 3, 2011 Posted December 3, 2011 Threads like this make me sad. There are men out there who very obviously flat out hate women, it seems. I love, love, love to make my boyfriend happy! Frequent sex, back rubs, little 'I love you' gifts, whatever I can do to make him smile. Isn't that what relationships are all about? It's not that we hate women but these experiences are not made up and actually happened. Do you think that is supposed to have no effect on a man?
ShannonMI Posted December 3, 2011 Posted December 3, 2011 That's disgusting. My opinion of a real man is that he isn't afraid of what people think. Being able to display emotion in a time of real grief (ie funerals) instead of fearing what others may think of him, is part of that. So I find men who are able to let themselves cry at funerals as all the more manly. On the other hand, if he cried because he fell down or broke a nail... possibly not so. Disgusting is right. But that woman was a legit wack-a-doodle. Sorry, Wog but she was.
Woggle Posted December 3, 2011 Posted December 3, 2011 Disgusting is right. But that woman was a legit wack-a-doodle. Sorry, Wog but she was. No argument from me.
Els Posted December 3, 2011 Posted December 3, 2011 Hahah, I've cried for a lot of things, but never for a movie. I guess no matter what's being portrayed on the screen, there's this little voice that keeps telling me, "It's not real, these people are actors paid millions to entertain you".
ShannonMI Posted December 3, 2011 Posted December 3, 2011 Hahah, I've cried for a lot of things, but never for a movie. I guess no matter what's being portrayed on the screen, there's this little voice that keeps telling me, "It's not real, these people are actors paid millions to entertain you". True but often what's portrayed on screen could happen in real life. People that cry over movies see something of themselves and their life experiences in the movie and the characters.
dasein Posted December 3, 2011 Posted December 3, 2011 (edited) I suspect the statement steams from way back when when women were more abject to unfair treatment then men. Way back when in the "imaginary" period... never happened. OP, most media messages are targeted at women because women in the U.S. control purchasing power and are more respondent to advertising than men. So what you are describing is a very natural marketing phenomenon, "appeal to them what has the bucks." The world of media messages exists in response to a current culture where wealth has been redistributed to such a degree, and the traditional family purse is controlled mostly by the woman, that women make ~80% of purchasing decisions. So the male targeted ads center on the big categories of automobiles, alcohol, and not a whole lot else. IRL, I almost never hear "he treats her really well" unless it's being used to describe a woman's situation who was previously married to a real a-hole. Thoughtful people of quality, those without warped gender-victim compasses, describe couples as "they are great together," "they make a great match," without the presumption that third parties are to assign value to a couple based on the comfort level of the woman. So you have a media marketing machine that needs to pander to women to sell product and a gender victim dynamic among lower class and less intelligent folks IRL that feeds right into it, responds to it, and shapes its characterization of the world in those terms. Sadly, a majority of the people alive today shape their lives based on media messages, shows, movies, newstainment, tabloids, mags. Thoughtful people don't, but those are so scarce today as to be near outliers. That's my theory anyway as to why you don't hear more about "treating a man right." It doesn't sell product. Edited December 3, 2011 by dasein
Janesays Posted December 3, 2011 Posted December 3, 2011 It's not that we hate women but these experiences are not made up and actually happened. Do you think that is supposed to have no effect on a man? I've had a lot of bad experiences with men. In fact, almost every single solitary boyfriend I've ever had and BOTH of my ex husbands cheated on me. My last ex husband not only cheated on me, but robbed me blind of my life savings. But I'm surely not going to punish an entire sex for the actions of a few. Just because I happened to pick a few losers doesn't mean there aren't really good men out there that deserve respect.
FitChick Posted December 3, 2011 Posted December 3, 2011 We teach people how to treat us, regardless of sex. If you tolerate bad behavior, whose fault is it?
Woggle Posted December 3, 2011 Posted December 3, 2011 I've had a lot of bad experiences with men. In fact, almost every single solitary boyfriend I've ever had and BOTH of my ex husbands cheated on me. My last ex husband not only cheated on me, but robbed me blind of my life savings. But I'm surely not going to punish an entire sex for the actions of a few. Just because I happened to pick a few losers doesn't mean there aren't really good men out there that deserve respect. I don't want to punish women but yeah I am more on guard than I used to be.
ShannonMI Posted December 3, 2011 Posted December 3, 2011 I don't want to punish women but yeah I am more on guard than I used to be. You were also married to the female equivalent of Charlie Manson, so your feelings are justified. Don't beat yourself up too badly over it. Just know not all women are even close to that.
Janesays Posted December 3, 2011 Posted December 3, 2011 I don't want to punish women but yeah I am more on guard than I used to be. There's a difference between putting a guard up and trashing an entire sex of people. Some of the posts here make me feel uncomfortable, I'm not going to lie. I'm a really nice person. I've never cheated on a boyfriend or a husband. I don't try to manipulate men or come between his friends or family. I don't take advantage financially and I always pay my fair share. I care about my boyfriend's happiness. When I'm with someone, I make it a policy to always speak to them with respect. I am giving, I am thoughtful, I am kind. I go out of my way for people. I try to be a good person. I try to do the right thing. Furthermore, I am not the only one. There are other women like me. But it's so darn disheartening when you're trying your best to be a quality person only to constantly come across the 'all women are *insert something insulting here*.' It just makes me sad, that's all. I also realize it might be tough for men to go through the same thing. Which is why I never judge men, as a whole, based on my past experiences. It's just not fair.
Woggle Posted December 3, 2011 Posted December 3, 2011 There's a difference between putting a guard up and trashing an entire sex of people. Some of the posts here make me feel uncomfortable, I'm not going to lie. I'm a really nice person. I've never cheated on a boyfriend or a husband. I don't try to manipulate men or come between his friends or family. I don't take advantage financially and I always pay my fair share. I care about my boyfriend's happiness. When I'm with someone, I make it a policy to always speak to them with respect. I am giving, I am thoughtful, I am kind. I go out of my way for people. I try to be a good person. I try to do the right thing. Furthermore, I am not the only one. There are other women like me. But it's so darn disheartening when you're trying your best to be a quality person only to constantly come across the 'all women are *insert something insulting here*.' It just makes me sad, that's all. I also realize it might be tough for men to go through the same thing. Which is why I never judge men, as a whole, based on my past experiences. It's just not fair. Understand that none of us are talking about women like yourself. We just come on here to vent. It sucks just as much when all men get trashed.
Disenchantedly Yours Posted December 3, 2011 Posted December 3, 2011 The problem is too many men never ask for it. The hot looking spoiled selfish shallow b***h is the same thing as the hot bad boy. Women tolerate his BS because he's hot and exciting. Men tolerate the "SSB" because she's hot and exciting, plus they hope she's a guaranteed amazing lay. GrkBoy, you get "it". Thanks for being a guy that understand that the whole hot girl/hot guy bad girl/bad boy thing works both ways.
Disenchantedly Yours Posted December 3, 2011 Posted December 3, 2011 dasein Way back when in the "imaginary" period... never happened. Well women's suffrage and Feminism came about for a reason. Am I claiming life was easy for men? Not in absolute terms but the reality is that men did have more freedoms and chances at equality then women did. Ideas about "treating a woman right" come from an old school way of thought about what our country was built on. Which was a patrachic system where the man was the head of the family and made choices and was suppose to treat his woman right for that fact. Since women did infact have less social power back then, and less power among men, the cliche "treating women right" developed. "treating women right" has nothing to do with advertising as you described it. While women do have more purchasing power when it comes to toilet paper and window cleaner, that's not where this statement steamed from. And yes, while commercials CAN be quite degrading to men (and I completely disagree with this kind of advertising) it again has nothing to do with the cliche "treating a woman right".
Lonely Ronin Posted December 3, 2011 Posted December 3, 2011 I love, love, love to make my boyfriend happy! Frequent sex, back rubs, little 'I love you' gifts, whatever I can do to make him smile. Isn't that what relationships are all about? Yes. It is indeed.
HeavenOrHell Posted December 3, 2011 Posted December 3, 2011 Men deserve to be treated well, same as women do, what point are you trying to make? I've always treated men with respect and always will. Women get as much bad treatment from men, as men do from women. I have only ever heard women complaining about wanting a man who knows how to 'treat a woman right'. But I never heard of a man who demands the same. Is it because men are more selfless and think less about taking while thinking more about giving?
Woggle Posted December 3, 2011 Posted December 3, 2011 The fact of the matter is that for both genders treating people like crap is a good way to get them to bend over backwards for you. When men sense a woman hates him he tends to go out of his way to please her. Not me but many men do.
Lonely Ronin Posted December 3, 2011 Posted December 3, 2011 When men sense a woman hates him he tends to go out of his way to please her. Not me but many men do. I'm with you on this. If I feel I'm getting treated unfairly, Then she is going to get shown the door.
dasein Posted December 3, 2011 Posted December 3, 2011 Well women's suffrage and Feminism came about for a reason. Am I claiming life was easy for men? Not in absolute terms but the reality is that men did have more freedoms and chances at equality then women did. Feminism and voting rights? Will limit rehashing my posts here on the origin of feminism to restating that feminism has its origins in marxist leninist social destabilization and control methods espoused by academia in the 1960s, not in some supposed "timeless struggle for women's rights." The "true believers" couched the nascent communist political doctrine in revisionist history of a fabricated "first wave" of feminism to make the doctrine more palatable to an American public wary of cultural marxist influence during the Cold War. For example, Betty Friedan, who wrote the "Feminine Mystique," that started the popular feminist movement, was a 30 year member of the communist party whose sole career before publication of that book was as an agitprop propagandist for various communist periodicals. Turning to voting rights, I'm glad you brought this up, as have been reading more and more into "real" 18th-19th century history lately, especially regarding the rise of literacy, and the relation of literacy to meaningful voting rights. Voting rights, in a vacuum, are meaningless. In an era where a very few newspapers were the only real media, having voting rights while being illiterate meant little or nothing. As I have posted before, average male non property owning citizens received the promised voting rights of a brand new type of democratic republican government in the U.S. in the mid 19th century, 70 years or so before the 19th amendment brought voting rights to women on a centralized basis. Feminists love to use voting rights as the keystone basis for their groundless arguments that men had it better than women throughout history. When in actuality, average men had voting rights for significantly less than 70 years (1850-1920) over women, as many women had been given local and state rights to vote long before the 19th amendment was enacted. So while it's true that average men did in fact have voting rights that average women did not have during a brief historical period, a) that period is a gnat's toenail of time in human history, so does not serve as any kind of proper foundation that "men had it better throughout history," and b) voting rights mean little without literacy anyway. Did you know that in the middle 19th century, the literacy rate was ~5-10% among men? (Somehow I bet they don't teach that in women's studies classes) 90-95% of people couldn't even read a ballot, and had to rely strictly on word of mouth for any idea at all of what or whom they were voting for or against. The phenomenal rise of literacy in the subsequent century is attributable to several factors, cheap high speed printing presses chief among them. The very historical instant there were more newspapers to read, people became more literate. The very historical instant men and women became more literate, they were ALL given the right to vote. Ideas about "treating a woman right" come from an old school way of thought about what our country was built on. No, they come from modern marketing. While women do have more purchasing power when it comes to toilet paper and window cleaner, that's not where this statement steamed from. Wrong, due to differences in lifespan, massive government wealth transfer under the window dressing auspices of "child support" for 50 years, hideously gender-biased domestic courts, etc., women control ~80% of ALL purchasing power, not just household products. Feminist revisionist history never holds up in the light of day. Time to drag it out of the comfortable darkness where it festers.
Disenchantedly Yours Posted December 3, 2011 Posted December 3, 2011 You're leaving out big chunks of information Dasien. But neither of us are ever going to agree with the other so I don't mind. You're friends with men that bang strippers and disrespect their real life partners.
dasein Posted December 3, 2011 Posted December 3, 2011 You're leaving out big chunks of information Dasien. But neither of us are ever going to agree with the other so I don't mind. You're friends with men that bang strippers and disrespect their real life partners. Oh, I see, the masterful "your friend banged a stripper so your claims about feminism have no merit" response. Never seen anything like -that- here on LS before. See guys, whenever the stale old gender polarizing, victimization poison that has caused so much damage in our social structure is questioned, ad hominem fallacies are all they have in response.
joystickd Posted December 3, 2011 Posted December 3, 2011 Feminism again lol. The only thing is women pick and choose what parts of the "patriarchy" they want to fight against. The parts that benefit them they keep. Anyway its stupid to bring a feminist argument to a dating forum.
dasein Posted December 3, 2011 Posted December 3, 2011 Feminism again lol. The only thing is women pick and choose what parts of the "patriarchy" they want to fight against. The parts that benefit them they keep. Anyway its stupid to bring a feminist argument to a dating forum. I ignored feminism for years in conducting dating relationships, as it rarely comes up, even among the most indoctrinated, they know better than to spout the stuff to a man with options. After I dated some feminists, one wasted 7 years on, I realized I had made a giant mistake in ignoring feminism. It's very much to do with modern dating.
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