1ofMany Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 Okay so, I've known this guy for years and we've always had a thing on and off but we never were ready to be with one another at the same time. I thought that I knew him fairly well and he wa a good guy. Fast forward to us dating.... This is where sh*t gets complicated. Since we knew each other for such a long time we decided (due to the circumstances at the time) that I should move in with him. Everything was great for a few weeks until I started noticing that he had a few close girl "friends" that I had never even known exsisted previous to dating. Like I knew he still talked to his ex ad what not but I am talkin close friendships with these girls who suddenly appears out of thin air. Most of them were fine and didn't bother me because the were platonic (other than the fact that they were never mentioned to me until I moved in!!). But there was this one girl, Maddie, that he seemed to have a "different" thing with than the others. One day he told me that she had tried calling him multiple times at the middle if the night and he had missed her call. This made me wonder .... What kind of a friend feels that they can go ahead and call a Platonic male "friend" at those hours with anything short of an emergency (which this was not). So I asked him what the story was between them. Initially, he lied and told me that he had never slept with her before but I know him so well he broke down with the truth and apologized for lieing on the same night. So I felt like I was in the loop with what had been between them and things were good for awhile. We were looking at eachothers facebOok one day and I noticed that he had sent Maddie a message the day after my birthday saying that they needed to get togeather an hangout soon. Normally this wouldn't bother me but the fact that he had been secretive about it before I figured he would make sure I was well aware of everything so I'd be comfortable. Well me asking him about this quickly escalated into a full blown fight. I was now super curious about just what the hell had gone on with them and who this girl even was. Now let me tell you that my bf is 29 and I am 23. Well this Maddie girl became friends with him when she was still in high school. Meanwhile he was already 27 - a ten year age gap between them. This girl and him were hanging out one day and I guess she was droppe off at home but had a family conflict and asked him to pick her up cause she needed help. I guess the issue was serious enough that police were involved and she needed a place to stay while she worked ahit out with her mom. This is when I find out that they lived togeather for a month and a half and that he was her legal guardian for a month until she turned 18. Now there is a certain comment that he made which I cannot seem to shake. I couldn't believe that he would sleep with someone that was obviously way too young for him and in a position where he was helping her. He said "at least I waited until she was eighteen". That bothers me alot even though he says that she definitely was the one who came onto him first. Now I understand ppl have moments of weakness but they slept with eachother for a few weeks. That's not a mistake anymore. And he has admitted that a few times he was dunk and didn't use a condom. He apparently stopped sleeping with her when he found out that she was sleeping with a bartender guy. He says that they never shared his bed (except to have sex) and she stayed in the spare room the rest of the time. Now I have a few issues with this that I cannot seem to get over. First, my thoughts of this man have turned from admiration to thinking he is skeezy, desperate and pathetic for what he did. How on earth could they have really had anything uncommon ever? Another thing is that since it was like pulling teeth getting this info from him, I always feel that there is more to the story than he makes it out to be. A few other things I should mention; he had made comments to me about sleeping with her being the best he's ever had because she was like 100 pounds and he could hold her down and move her all over and whatnot. Secondly he as compared me to her unintentionally before and I feel like that has cause me to constantly compare MYSELF to her even more than he ever did! He is not jncontact with her anymore and I told him I would leave if he was. I Remeber when he called her to tell her to not speak with him anymore for these reasons and she was like "after all that we have been through?" I just can't believe that there isn't more to it and he is just avoiding conflict because he doesn't want to fight, hopefully feels remorseful and doesn't think it's my business. This happent a few months ago already and I still have problems respecting him the way I did before. I guess the worst part is that I was the one who had to point out just how creepy and strange his friendship with her was/was at the time. He agreed with me but I still don't feel the same as if he had come to the conclusion himself. And it wasn't like he agreed with me the whole time either. He knew I was upset with it but only did something about it when I gave him a final ultimatum of her or me. I guess hat I am wondering is if my thoughts re overly crowded with emotion and I am looking at it the wrong way? What would you have thought and felt if you were me? Would you still be with this man?? Responses are so appreciate as this is tearing me apart!! Xoxo 1ofmany
in_absentia Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 No, I would not be with this man. He had sex with a female he was supposed to be the legal guardian of (whether it was later on or not, you gotta admit that seems a little... incestuous). I can't see it any other way than that a vulnerable young teenager was staying with him and he took advantage of that, even if she did come onto him first he should never have gone for it. The sickest part however is the 'at least I waited until she was 18' comment, that implies he was thinking of her sexually before that point and wanted to have sex with her before that, but was somehow a decent person for waiting until her birthday to actually have sex with her. When did he make those comments about her being the best he's ever had?? It can only have been recently while you've been together, right? Or you'd have known about their relationship before moving in? What kind of guy makes comments about another woman being the best he's ever had to his GIRLFRIEND? One who needs to be single asap. I couldn't respect the guy after finding all of that out, let alone the fact that he lied to you. Time to move on.
Author 1ofMany Posted December 1, 2011 Author Posted December 1, 2011 Thank you so much for your response. I feel like I've been going crazy with this situation... Not knowing if what I feel is completely deserved or if I am just not moving on from the past?? To answer your question; we were sleeping with eachother for about a month before we became official and move in togeather. It was at the time that we were just sleeping togeather that he mention this little model girl he had sex with and how it was so good. He has made other comments that have bothered me before. Once he suggested (this is while we were dating) that we have a threesome with another woman. I've had experiences with this before but never while I was in a relationship. He said that he had before and told me about it. I asked if there were ever any issues and he said that his girlfriend at the time had been upset that he had sex with the extra girl without asking her first while they were doing this. I asked him what he was thinking at the time and he said (in a joking way) that he saw a "free hole" and took it. He said that it was a mistake not to make rules before hand and the only way he do it again (with me) is there were rules. I know that their relationship wasn't good in the past but how could he do that to someone he loved??? His gf at the time apparently didn't let it bother her too much. I know that I have a tendency to over think things sometimes but I usually know when my concern is warranted or not. Am I living I the Past??? I've told him how I feel about all this and since then he has said that's not him anymore but I can't help but feel like he would still be the same if I never said anything. It's like he didn't take the relationship seriously until i said something about it. I don't know but as much as I want to move forward and forgive its soooo hard.
dasein Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 This is what happens when people move too fast. In the future, make sure someone is committed to exclusivity with you before moving in with them, and that you know enough about their past to know whether there are things in the past that would cause you not to want to date them. It's not unusual at all that people develop romantic feelings for those they are helping, nonissue, and the age gap wouldn't be a big deal for most people, nonissue. The guardianship sounds like it was done to get her out a situation with others, and is a total nonissue. What would be an issue is if he is still sleeping with her or if there is any remnant of a romantic relationship there. If you feel uncomfortable about it, then move out. Are you paying rent and sharing half of all household expenses? Are you on the lease? If not then moving out shouldn't be that big an ordeal. You certainly have the right to date or not date whomever you like, but the "losing respect" part sounds a little ridiculous to me.
ThsAmericanLife Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 (edited) This guy sounds like a dirtbag. Some would say you got involved with him too soon... on the other hand, I've met guys who come clean with all sorts of crap waaayy down the road... hoping that you'll overlook it because you've invested time with him. Another dirtbag trick. This can't go anywhere else but down... He seems to have no problems finding women with self-esteem issues to give him what he wants... unfortunately, that is probably you right now. My best advice is to make sure you use condoms every time with him... then do a better job with your people picker next time. Don't be afraid to ask the hard questions. I wouldn't respect him either... and the longer you stay with him, the less respect you'll have for yourself too. Edited December 1, 2011 by ThsAmericanLife
RiverRunning Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 This guy sounds like a dirtbag. Some would say you got involved with him too soon... on the other hand, I've met guys who come clean with all sorts of crap waaayy down the road... hoping that you'll overlook it because you've invested time with him. . Agreed. dasein, sometimes short of hiring a private investigator and going through as many records as you can, you will just not get the whole story until months or years down the road. Some men make the mistake of bringing up unnecessary information early in a relationship when the partner never needed to know it. Others sometimes bring up pertinent information years down the road. Clearly, this guy has made some very poor sexual decisions in his past (very young girl he was the guardian of, unprotected sex with her, etc.). He only set boundaries when you enforced the rules. As someone who also issued the "I'm walking out of here. It's her, or me," ultimatum, I can say that I initially shared your same feelings. There was still a lot of resentment because I too felt I had to pull teeth and drag him into putting an ex into the past. I am several years into my relationship now and I can say that that entire issue is a big reason why we are not yet engaged (or why we may never be engaged). That kind of behavior runs deep. It is a perpetual acknowledgment of, "She was better than you in x way, new girlfriend. Keep that in mind." It bludgeons your self-esteem when a man would rather hold onto an ex-girlfriend - MAKING YOU angry, upset, insecure and jealous - rather than put her into the past where she belongs. What kills me is that so many of these men say, "I barely even talk to her," or "We aren't even close." Then why is it so hard to stop talking to this person you 'barely' talk to when you know it is undermining your relationship? There are people here who are advocates of the "Exes can be friends!" stance. But that takes some very, very specific and important ground rules. It means that everybody involved in the situation - you need to disclose it immediately to all of your new girlfriends, you need to limit the one-on-one contact, you must BOTH be completely over one another in that sense, and you must analyze why you are still keeping in touch with the ex. Most people can't even say they can meet 'one' of those categories, let alone all of them. Exes obviously had physical chemistry to bind them together. Exes obviously had enough in common to date or be around one another for any significant length of time (including in this case). And while there's the group that always says, "But they're exes for a reason," there's also a reason why you see so many exes get back together or cheat with one another after they've both supposedly "moved on." Because there is a difference in saying "I've moved on" and showing that you have moved on. Many people who have moved on are totally indifferent to how their exes feel, let alone how their exes lives are going. Because they have moved onto bigger and better things. You two haven't been dating for long, and he's obviously got a very juvenile and crude approach to sex for a man who is supposedly pushing 30 ("Free holes?" "Waited until she was 18?" Gag). OP, you already sound more mature and capable of a relationship than the guy you are dating. I say save your self-esteem. You are not too far into this. You will meet somebody else. Unfortunately, so will he, as many girls flock to guys who treat them like crap.
dasein Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 Clearly, this guy has made some very poor sexual decisions in his past (very young girl he was the guardian of, unprotected sex with her, etc.). No he hasn't made very poor sexual decisions, or rather we don't have enough data to know that, so why make unwarranted assumptions? Restating, the age gap means nothing. It is not unusual at all for mid late twenties men to be involved with young but legal women. Women of this age seek it out today and if you don't realize that you've been under a rock. They hit on me constantly, for example with little provocation and I'm much older than OP's guy. Tired of "predator hiding in the bush" BS being stirred up every time a man gets involved with a younger woman. It's quite plain older women don't like it, and quite plain why, and for all we know, the girl wagged her ass in OP's face until he gave in. We... don't... know, though, and instantly attributing fault to the man is sexist and discriminatory. The guardianship means nothing, the way OP posts it leads to a conclusion that was a mere legal step to get her out of a bad situation, not a sign of intent for the man to be her permanent guardian. Unprotected sex is unwise, but let's be real, lots and lots of people do it, and the fact that he even brings it up now means he understands it's unwise. His life seems just fine, actually. Up to OP as to whether her goals and his intersect. It never ceases to amaze me how women here on LS can't simply acknowledge that something wasn't in the cards, or ideas and goals were different, "we are simply incompatible," "moved too fast," without having some "losing respect" sackcloth party or "dirtbag" smear party at the expense of some dude who like as not did nothing wrong. This is just another example of a thread where for some reason, women feel it necessary to shift 100% of all blame onto the man in question. That's both unreasonable and unrealistic. There is absolutely no reason to call this guy a dirtbag. OP and the guy moved in too fast, and they are both equally to blame for that. If OP isn't paying for food, expenses or rent, she really has no grounds for complaint as she is basically a live-in hooker. See how the unfounded supposition game works both ways?
Untouchable_Fire Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 I guess hat I am wondering is if my thoughts re overly crowded with emotion and I am looking at it the wrong way? What would you have thought and felt if you were me? Would you still be with this man?? Responses are so appreciate as this is tearing me apart!! Xoxo 1ofmany I would say that he is very guilty of sharing way too much information. You are guilty of being super insecure. I don't think his relationship with her is wrong... people of all ages get together. If you are not comfortable with his past... then walk. That is how relationships work. Just make sure YOUR dating history has no skeletons.
Author 1ofMany Posted December 1, 2011 Author Posted December 1, 2011 Dasien: first of all I'd like to thank you for contributing to this thread. Honestly I feel like having your point of view as well as everyone else's has helped me alot in understanding my feelings with the situation. To a point I agree that the choices he made might not seem attractive to most (females mainly) but it was not wrong as both had consented to it and he wasn't dating anyone at the time. The part that I struggle with is that we had the argument about her and his lack of communication when the phone calls first happent, but no action was taken on his part at tht point to make me feel like I was important enough to know these things about his past and that we would have a relationship with open communication. Hell, ive made my fair share of "regrettable" decisions in the past and I certainly don't think of myself or him as perfect people. It's not what he did that made me lose the respect.... It's the fact that I told him how it made me feel and he didn't do anything about it. He ignored the problem and kept on as if the conversation had never happent. I feel bad for giving him the ultimatum I truly do because I am a very open easy going person who would be glad to have been included with their friendship had I been broughten into it. Not like I'd need to know ever facet and detail of their conversations but at least I could feel as though nothing was going on with them anymore. The fact that he caried on being the way he was without becoming More open makes me feel like HE had something to be ashamed with in still talking to her and it would be best to keep me out of it. Like previously mentioned, I guess it just didn't feel like he had moved on. And the fact that I had spoken to him and said these mean things in anger (called him pathetic, creepy, ect) he didn't ever disagree with me on that. He didn't have anything to say to defend himself. So In some ways I suppose I said those things with the hope of him proving me wrong. It's the fact that never happent which bothers me. When we talk about it now he stresses the fact that he sees how he was wrong and has done alot to show me that I am important to him. The locker is that when I ask him why he didn't do this after the first argument we had (about a Month previous to him asking her to hangout) he didn't react by stopping talking to her. I don't mean be rude and delete her from his life; but I certainly didn't expect him to reach out to her and ask her to hangout with him. The actions and words just don't add up. All I can get from him is that he was being stupid and not thinking at the time. Which is fine up until the point tht I realize he could easily make the same mistake down the road for all I know and this time it will be my fault for falling for it and not seeing the warning signs. I just don't get how he could say I was important yet I pointed out how this made me feel and he still carried on anyways. An then finally ended up deleting her from his life? Seems like he should have either dumped me and had a friend he had interest in, rather than delete her and stay with girlfriend who is less than happy???
Untouchable_Fire Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 This guy sounds like a dirtbag. Some would say you got involved with him too soon... on the other hand, I've met guys who come clean with all sorts of crap waaayy down the road... hoping that you'll overlook it because you've invested time with him. Another dirtbag trick. This can't go anywhere else but down... He seems to have no problems finding women with self-esteem issues to give him what he wants... unfortunately, that is probably you right now. My best advice is to make sure you use condoms every time with him... then do a better job with your people picker next time. Don't be afraid to ask the hard questions. I wouldn't respect him either... and the longer you stay with him, the less respect you'll have for yourself too. .... And women never do this? Hypocrite much? Seriously I think you are this forums most successful Troll.
Untouchable_Fire Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 And the fact that I had spoken to him and said these mean things in anger (called him pathetic, creepy, ect) he didn't ever disagree with me on that. He didn't have anything to say to defend himself. So In some ways I suppose I said those things with the hope of him proving me wrong. It's the fact that never happent which bothers me. When we talk about it now he stresses the fact that he sees how he was wrong and has done alot to show me that I am important to him. The locker is that when I ask him why he didn't do this after the first argument we had (about a Month previous to him asking her to hangout) he didn't react by stopping talking to her. I don't mean be rude and delete her from his life; but I certainly didn't expect him to reach out to her and ask her to hangout with him. The actions and words just don't add up. All I can get from him is that he was being stupid and not thinking at the time. Which is fine up until the point tht I realize he could easily make the same mistake down the road for all I know and this time it will be my fault for falling for it and not seeing the warning signs. Ok... insulting him and being angry makes you the Ahole. It also prevented him from actually talking to you about this honestly. At this point he is just going to do whatever he needs to placate you. If he wanted this girl more than you... he would be dating her instead. However, his friendship with her was innapropriate and you were well within your rights to ask him to stop. I can't say for sure what he was thinking... but he seems like the kind of guy that wants everybody to like him. That is kind of a dangerous trait. If you have bad stuff in your past... stop being a jerk and don't judge. Evaluate his actions based on what he is doing now, and do not insult people in anger.
Feelsgoodman Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 I don't think it's a huge deal unless he was sleeping with her while you two were together. So what if he was her legal guardian for a few months? Sounds like a total formality. For a man to sleep with a girl who is ten years younger is not weird at all. Now if he slept with a woman ten years his senior, that would have been creepy...
ShannonMI Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 I don't think it's a huge deal unless he was sleeping with her while you two were together. So what if he was her legal guardian for a few months? Sounds like a total formality. For a man to sleep with a girl who is ten years younger is not weird at all. Now if he slept with a woman ten years his senior, that would have been creepy...[/QUOTE] You are such a creep. So a younger woman is fine, but a older woman isn't? You're one of those guys that loves the underage porn too, right? This guy was her legal gaurdian. He should not be banging her. End of story.
Untouchable_Fire Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 You are such a creep. So a younger woman is fine, but a older woman isn't? You're one of those guys that loves the underage porn too, right? This guy was her legal gaurdian. He should not be banging her. End of story. They had a relationship and she moved in... which is what made him the legal guardian. It's not the same as a teacher dating a student or a boss dating an employee. Both of those situations show an abuse of position... yet most posters don't seem to care... so why is this different?
dasein Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 The part that I struggle with is that we had the argument about her and his lack of communication when the phone calls first happent, but no action was taken on his part at tht point to make me feel like I was important enough to know these things about his past and that we would have a relationship with open communication. Well based on the above, I see your POV also, and it isn't unreasonable. It seems like growing pains in establishing the relationship. If you could isolate it as something in the past that troubles you, but can get over it, then perhaps there is hope for moving forward. I still think you two have moved to fast, before the foundation of basic trust was established, and these are the inevitable kinds of understandings that result, have experienced such several times myself.
Feelsgoodman Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 ]You are such a creep. So a younger woman is fine, but a older woman isn't? You're one of those guys that loves the underage porn too, right? This guy was her legal gaurdian. He should not be banging her. End of story. Speaking of creepy...would you stop following me and replying to every post I make? Troll.
ShannonMI Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 Speaking of creepy...would you stop following me and replying to every post I make? Troll. Hahahahahahaha there is a thread saying I'm a troll so perhaps you're right.
Author 1ofMany Posted December 2, 2011 Author Posted December 2, 2011 Just to clear up the legal guardian thing; situation was that they were supposed to hangout with a group I mutual friends but from what he says everyone else ditched them so they ended up going out for coffee togeather. Now a question I had at this point was how does a 27 yr old man meet with a girl who is still in high school? I mean she was too young to go to bars and such so I asked him. He said that she was really into vehicles (he is and that's how he Met most of his friends) so I suppose that makes sense. Anyways, it almost seems like she used him in a way. Can you seriously tell Me that this girl didn't have another single Person to stay with in her family, or even a close female friends family that would take her in??? As a 17 yr old I think I would be uncomfortable living with a new friend who was 10 years older than me over a girlfriend. It's the fact that he didn't suggest this to her that makes Me think he was lonely and desperate. Otherwise he would have been a true friend to this girl and given her the best advise he pup which would be to not look for a man to be her "hero" so to speak. But I assume that she made him feel important so it was mutually beneficial in a way? I do thik that she used him for rides, alcohol, money, food and a place to stay but that is only my viewpoint and a person can't be used if they are willingly doing these things. And I'd also like to say that I agree we moved way too fast with living togeather. We were naive to think that because we had been seeing eachother on and off for years that we would be able to skip all the foundation building that other couples do. Def a big mistake. Although, had we not lived togeather, it's possible that this would have just gone on behind my back until we finally Moved in togeather anyways, resulting in a similar outcome in the end as well. It's all speculation but hey, that's why keeps this forum going right? I'd also like to say that before this incident this guy did absolutely make me feel like I was the most important girl to him. He did always put me first and would drop any and all plans to come and be with me when I wanted. As I mentioned before, about 2 years previously he had tried to be in a relationship with me but I declined as I wasn't ready. It was in the year before we got togeather that all this with Maddie happent.
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