I'm a little frightened.

[KindMan]

To me, it seems like the OP is a walking red flag for any stable guy.

[Els]

TC, I respect you and your opinion enormously, but I don't think you have gotten past that transition before. xxoo has been married for many years; I am in a 3.5-year LTR, not as long as hers. The transition typically happens between 6 months to 2 years from the start of the relationship. Yes, it is usually over in that case, because most relationships do tend to crash at that point. So your experience is apt, because all of those that you have experienced have done so.

 

Every single LT couple I know well enough to ask of such private details, has disclosed that there are indeed a few things about their partner that annoys them. It is the way in which both partners compromise and deal with that, that determines whether it makes or breaks the R. In this case, TA and her bf (her bf moreso than her) do not appear to be handling it well.

[Kamille]

I saw this thread this morning. Most of the morning, random thoughts of moments when people in my life annoyed me flashed in my mind. I can easily imagine that I'm someone who gets annoyed easily (I think most introverts do), but mostly, I think annoyance is a regular part of human relationships. The example that speaks the most to me is the following:

 

My best friend has this very annoying habit: she'll sing publicity jingles over and over again. She knows it drives me nuts, sometimes tones it down, sometimes does it to annoy me, sometimes doesn't even realize she's doing it.

 

While I commend your bf for communicating that he didn't find the meeowing charming anymore, I don't think the immediate conclusion is: therefore you're expected to stop meeowing. I still have to put up with my best friend's jingles for one simple reason: I do not control her. She's free to do what she wants to do, even if that means singing a jingle that will send her best friend running out of the room growling. The only thing I can control is how I react to it (reactions ranged from "please stop!" to laughing with her to, now, mostly just ignoring it). Reacting the way he did? Definitely an over-reaction. It reveals, again, that there might be some form of control issues in your relationship. (And T, you seem to have a history of relationships that involve control issues. You'll have to figure out how you contribute to it.)

 

To me, your meeowing sounds like a habit similar to my friend's jingles. 50% of the time, she isn't even aware she's doing it. A way to negotiate an end to the meeowing would have been for you two to agree that he's allowed to tell you to stop when it annoys him (say, if he fears a head butt coming on).

 

But T, you have to figure out what this means to you and if you are really frightened. You have to figure out if this means the end, or if you think you can work through it. My future responses will depend on whether or not you feel you truly want to end things.

[Els]

I think many of us wear rose-tinted glasses during the honeymoon phase, and so everything they do is wonderful and perfect in our eyes. When the glasses fall off, you start to see the not-so-good-side of the exact same thing - it had existed all along, you just had only seen the bright side of it before.

[carhill]

In my experience whenever the relationship reaches the point of being annoyed by a partner's once cute habits it's basically over.

I think that nuance is worth clarifying. OP, if going home is your only option, my advice for the current time is neutrality, stowing any 'relationship talk' for a short period of time, perhaps briefly communicating that 'I'd like to talk about what happened last night when you're ready to. How do you feel about that?' There's no reason for such words to be rancorous or threatening. Accept the answer as the truth of the moment.

 

I've had such a calm and clear conversation, when my exW and I decided to divorce, so I know how it can go, even if the outcome is negative. It's up to the parties to set the tone, one way or another. Do your part, being true to your relationship style, and accept his as his truth. If your style is other than what I have suggested and it doesn't speak to you, go with that.

 

You can resolve this in a positive way, no matter the outcome.

[2sunny]

Nothing good comes if you stay and are fearful.

 

You've been in fear the whole time with him though - that is part of the role you play. Blaming him for your core dear keeps you there...you fear being on your own so you stay even though there have been MANY instances that indicated you SHOULD leave.

 

You like what he provides you - and are willing to settle for so little.

 

Compromising what's in your best interest will never lead to a good outcome.

 

Red flags again! Is it enough for you to move (invoke change) probably not.

 

It's too convenient to stay - even though it's killing the spirit of you.

[Feelsgoodman]

Folks, you can bet your ass that you are not getting the full story here.

[blueskyday]

Full story, if there is one, is not needed.

 

This is how abuse begins, people. I've been there. His initial action of grabbing her arm and scaring her, then his defensiveness, and his ultimate "minimizing" behavior of saying it wasn't that bad IS abuse.

 

Plain and simple: Abuse is when someone makes you feel threatened or scared. He showed her HE had control over when HE would let go of her arm. He blamed her for his action, and he dismissed her feelings when she shared them.

 

I may get mad at a friend for being "annoying." Do I have the right to take out a gun and scare her with it? NOOOOO...

 

Abusive people always blame the other person for their bad behavior. It's how they rationalize it away.

 

It will get worse, if left unchecked. React in a big way. Tell him you will never ever tolerate such behavior again. If he backs down and admits he shouldn't have done it, then you may have a good guy on your hands who simply made a mistake. Don't give him another chance if he does it again, however.

 

If he becomes defensive or angry when you confront him, dump his a$$. An abuser will never be self-aware enough or have enough empathy or humility to be emotionally responsive or take responsibility.

 

Abusers always start out with these little things to get you to push your boundaries. They hope you will say, "Oh, it's my fault," or "He had a bad day. He didn't mean it."

 

Then one day you say, "How did it get so bad? He just threw a chair through the wall and called me a c*nt. And he said it was because I was bothering him in some way or another."

 

Sad thing is, a small part of you will believe it is your fault until you won't know what's real and normal and what's not.

Edited November 29, 2011 by blueskyday

[xxoo]

I just have this image of something I'd do to my niece if she kept meowing at me...but not in a "mean way" or to hurt her, but in a "mom way" cut that out...does that make sense? LOL

 

No, not really.

 

In fact, as a mom, when I initially read the OP I thought of my children, and how they do this kind of thing, and how I teach my children to "walk away" from the annoying person with "hands to yourself". I even have a song for it

 

Just want to add that you could be right since you have more experience and data points to draw from...but at the same time whenever I reached the point in my relationships of being annoyed by habits I once found endearing I had very little respect left for my partner (and it was mutual). Maybe other couples are different.

 

IME, contempt can include annoyance, but annoyance does not necessarily mean contempt. I get very annoyed with my children on a regular basis, but ther is no contempt. Similarly, I've never felt contempt for my H, even when most annoyed. Also, it is much harder for us to annoy each other these days, as we've seemingly "worn off the sharp edges" with many years together. We've had the honeymoon stage, and the "getting real" stage with its many annoyances, and have arrived at the stage of "I'm ok, you're ok"

[blueskyday]

XXOO has a good point. When annoyed, the best behavior would be to walk away, hands to yourself.

 

I taught my children to NEVER put their hands on someone when they were mad.

 

Someone who does that has no impulse control. Scary. Even "The Hulk" wouldn't put his lady love in danger by touching her when he was mad. He just got away from her.

[Feelsgoodman]

Full story, if there is one, is not needed.

Have you read the OP's other threads? TigressA, a.k.a. the drama queen of LS, is clearly suffering from some kind of a psychological disorder. You can't take anything she says at face value.

[snug.bunny]

My whole point here is that I just can't see how my actions even came close to justifying what he had done.

 

Unless it is self-defense, there is no justification for physically assaulting another person. People get angry, but that doesn't give them the right to physically hurt another person if/when they're angry.

 

Your boyfriend became angry with you, and he responded to that physically. He has to take ownership of that. Can you live with someone knowing that they may respond physically, when angered? Or, would you rather be with someone who no matter what the circumstances are, it will never escalate to physical aggression?

 

Aside from that, you have to take ownership of the fact that you did not respect his boundaries. When you knowingly cross the line in the sand, and overstep the other person's boundaries, it takes the form of asserting control of the situation and/or the other person. And, your boyfriend demonstrated his response to that, by being physically aggressive towards you. Now if you continue to assert your actions as a measuring tool against his in justifying "who is right and who is wrong", it will just perpetuate the cycle and continue on with this "power struggle".

 

So as I see it, you have two choices...

 

Leave, because you will NEVER tolerate being attacked physically.

 

Or, stay. IF you choose to stay, you will have to accept that your boyfriend is capable of responding to things physically. As an "aside", your boyfriend needs to learn how to assert himself with you without being physical towards you...If/when you overstep his boundaries and are asked to stop, you stop.

 

Neither of you should want to be in a situation where you are both pulling the rubberband band and wanting to see how far the rubberband can be stretched before it snaps. You want the rubberband to remain a circle that is in tact and can withstand the occassional weight/stretch without breaking it (or hurting it for that matter...)

[Trimmer]

My whole point here is that I just can't see how my actions even came close to justifying what he had done.

My point is that you are focusing on the wrong point. You are connecting the two behaviors in a way that they don't need to be linked.

 

By your account, he knowingly induced pain in you. That, in and of itself, is wrong, and a huge cause for concern. For most people it would be an obvious dealbreaker and I don't understand why it isn't for you, especially since you are now in fear of him. I also want to acknowledge bluesky's points above about the profile and cycle of abuse.

 

But by you making a comparison, saying that your actions "didn't even come close to justifying" what he did, you are implying that some other actions on your part might have justified it. My point is that nothing justifies him knowingly inducing pain in you.

 

But I think another important point for your growth is not to use his actions - wrong as they were - as "cover" for you to avoid examining your behavior. It's easy, and kind of obvious, to think that if what he did was so wrong that this is the end of the discussion. Let me be clear here: I'm not saying you are responsible for his specific actions or that you "caused him to hurt you" or anything like that. I've already granted that he was wrong.

 

But if you use his behavior in this instance as an excuse to avoid examining your own behavior patterns and how they might contribute to an overall dysfunctional relationship dynamic, you will be missing an important growth opportunity. Even if you leave him (as perhaps you should) you shouldn't turn away from learning something important about yourself and your role in a relationship.

[Nexus One]

I'm with TigressA on this.

 

Don't get me wrong, I think the meowing would annoy the f*ck out of me too at some point if my SO kept doing it, but NEVER, EVER, would that justify physically hurting your SO.

 

The thing is, the guy justified hurting her himself, saying that TA was "hurting" him too, albeit psychologically, but that argumentation doesn't cut it.

 

I can see that TA was testing his boundaries and that the guy was getting pretty f*cking annoyed by it.

 

But despite all that, he shouldn't have hurt her. There are other appropriate ways to convey that she should stop doing it, rather than just asking nicely.

But inflicting physical pain? No, never. And then I'm not even talking about the fact that he justified it and denied he was hurting her by saying he didn't squeeze that hard.

 

Sometimes it's not even necessarily entirely about the inflicting of pain itself, but rather the motivation behind it or the justification. Personally I don't only look at WHAT people do, but also WHY they do it and how they motivate it.

 

And his argumentation here is just wrong. Something that can make such a situation emotionally unsettling is that it's your SO who's doing it, i.e. the one you supposedly love most. That would hit a soft spot in most people I think.

Edited November 29, 2011 by Nexus One

[in_absentia]

I had an ex who kept messing around doing stuff to annoy me well after the point when I had told him to seriously stop, and that it was annoying me. I never grabbed him to get him to stop, but I sure as hell felt like I wanted to at times. It felt like going out with a five year old who didn't want to relate to me as his partner, a grown woman, but instead as a play thing to poke for fun when he was bored. It drove be insane and I'd never be with somebody that immature again.

[Nexus One]

I'm not convinced this guy is abusive.

 

I remember about four years ago when I was with my ex ex (and a lot more messed up than I am now) we were having a terrible argument outside. I was provoking him and he started screaming at me to leave his (parked) car. I wouldn't budge. He was screaming at the top of his lungs. I'd never seen him that angry, but I totally pushed him to that place.

 

We had a relationship with zero respect and we were both constantly pushing the others' boundaries. It is hard for me to believe I was ever part of something so dysfunctional. Finally at one point after I refused to leave his car I started taunting him, "why don't you just hit me? Huh? Just do it!" And he did, giving me a fat lip. That was the only time he ever touched me. On some level I think I wanted him to hit me so I had an excuse to be angry at him.

 

His behavior of course was inexcusable but I know him well enough to realize that he wasn't a pathological abuser. I knew exactly how to push his buttons and I think any guy will snap eventually if you goad them in just the right way. I get the sense Tigress and her boyfriend are constantly fighting or having exchanges full of contempt/taunting and this was his breaking point.

 

In short, I'm not ready to say her boyfriend is abusive or dangerous, but I do think the respect in their relationship has eroded to a point of no return and she should leave for that reason.

 

I'm not saying he's a regular abuser, I'm saying TA's boyfriend was wrong in this instance, just like your ex was wrong. He should have never hit you, no matter how much you provoked him.

 

Had you played with me like you did with your ex, then maybe you wouldn't have gotten out of the car at that point, but neither would you have had a fat lip from a punch in your face. However I probably would already be planning an exit strategy from the relationship in the car and I would probably make sure you would no longer have access to me if you were really pushing it.

 

If your goal as a person is to be happy and you want to have a relationship to add to your happiness, but you find out that the relationship you're in doesn't accomplish that, then just end it and go about it like an adult, but don't resort violence.

 

The only scenario I can think of from the top of my head where violence would be justified against your SO is out of self-defense in the case they're seriously threatening your life or that of someone else and you'd have to act to prevent harm or worse. But not when your SO is meowing or verbally provoking you.

 

The repeated meowing could be a sign of immaturity and provoking like you did can be reason enough to end a relationship due to the dysfunctional aspect of it. But reason for violence? Nah, not even close.

[allina]

It seems like T may be exaggerating his bad behaviour because she feels him detaching from the relationship. Now if he breaks up with her she can paint him as an abuser and remove all blame for what went wrong in the relationship from herself.

[lino]

There is never any excuse to be violent with your partner, no matter how annoying they can get.

 

Having said that, this guy will benefit greatly if he bolts.

[carhill]

OP, if you could change one behavior or word in/from yourself during or as a result of this dynamic, what would it be? I ask this question because, predominantly, we've been focusing on him; relationships are also venues to learn about ourselves. Mirrors into our own psyche.

 

Also, since you were frightened a little and last shared that you might have no option other than returning home, an update about your condition would be appreciated. Hope all is OK.

[Wolf18]

Sounds like Tigress' boyfriend AND tigress herself are both overreacting babies. I say they are meant to be

 

He shouldn't have grabbed your arm for something stupid like that. But the fact that you're making this big of a stink about it shows that you have issues yourself. Try talking about these things together like grown ups next time, instead of acting like you just found out your boyfriend's a Mafia hitman.

[snug.bunny]

I'm not convinced her BF is physically abusive either. Just as I'm not convinced, incessant "meowing", is abusive (whether or not it was done to get a reaction or to provoke, is a different story).

 

I've had a past boyfriend grab/squeeze my arm during an arguement, but it never escalated beyond that and he was by no means physically abusive. I would have preferred that not to happen regardless, but, I've been known to generate some major heat out of the other person during an arguement, as my own response to certain things.

 

In this case, OP's boyfriend could have removed himself from the situation in order to de-escalate. How it should have gone down, is OP "meowed", he said it bugged him and to let him be, OP respected his view and left him alone. He comes back feeling refreshed and loving, and OP welcomes him back lovingly in return without judgment. Easier said then done, but, it is something that takes practice and it involves mutual understanding, support, respect, love, and trust.

[whichwayisup]

It was definitely more general to the moment.

 

I don't know what I really want to do to resolve this. I don't really know what I should do. I hopefully will have other sleeping arrangements tonight--I called my coworker about crashing at her place but she said she has to check with her fiance first (they live together). If that's a no-go then I pretty much have to go home, as I don't have other options.

 

Go to a hotel if need be.. But I'm hoping you stayed at your friends house.. If he said no, then there's something real wrong with them! One CANNOT turn away a friend in need of help and safety!

 

Please post soon so I know you're doing okay.

[2sunny]

Intent is everything. He intended to hurt her. Then when he knew it hurt- he continued! That is not ok!

 

You can't feel safe with someone if you wonder if they may hurt you. That's not loving behavior. Trust is lost. So foundation is broken.

[tigressA]

I'm doing okay.

 

I went home that night. My friend was still trying to convince her fiance while we were at work but to no real avail so to avoid causing drama between them I backed out. She asked if I was sure and if I needed anything she would come pick me up at my place. She drove me home. I did look at hotels but there weren't any reasonably priced ones nearby.

 

Things were quiet between BF and I for a little while and then we discussed what happened. He reiterated that he didn't have the intention of hurting me, and he was sorry for having done so. I told him point-blank if he ever did anything like that to me again I would be gone.

 

We eventually devolved into arguing--he said I overreact a lot and that I have difficulty with discussing things calmly. He even had the nerve to compare me to 'other girls'. That was when I hit the roof. I told him yet again he shouldn't have dismissed my feelings the way he had, calling them 'ridiculous'. He then asked if he should just be okay with and accepting of everything I do and say. I said no, of course not--but the way he acted toward me in that moment when I needed him to understand was cold and mean, and it made me wonder about him. I was so worked up and upset I had started crying, and I slammed my hand on the arm of the couch. I swore a lot. He asked if he should be doing that too, if he should be so accepting of that behavior from me. That's another difference between us--I start yelling pretty quickly, I swear, sometimes I cry if I'm upset enough, I wring my hands, and despite him having a temper that rivals mine (or so he says) he stays pretty calm. He hasn't ever shouted at me, or cussed me out. That ever-present fact is what makes me think the physical force was a one-off...indeed, when comparing the two of us you'd think it would be me more likely to hit him.

 

It all settled as it normally does. But I have a guard up. I don't trust him as much. I haven't been intimate with him--he's tried but I've refused him. I think the physical force was a one-off. I don't think it will happen again. He seemed sincere when he said he never intended to hurt me. What I'm honestly more concerned with at this point is how he reacted to my visible hurt after the incident--the way he was so cold and dismissive toward me.

Edited December 1, 2011 by tigressA

[azsinglegal]

I'm doing okay.

 

I went home that night. My friend was still trying to convince her fiance while we were at work but to no real avail so to avoid causing drama between them I backed out. She asked if I was sure and if I needed anything she would come pick me up at my place. She drove me home. I did look at hotels but there weren't any reasonably priced ones nearby.

 

Things were quiet between BF and I for a little while and then we discussed what happened. He reiterated that he didn't have the intention of hurting me, and he was sorry for having done so. I told him point-blank if he ever did anything like that to me again I would be gone.

 

We eventually devolved into arguing--he said I overreact a lot and that I have difficulty with discussing things calmly. He even had the nerve to compare me to 'other girls'. That was when I hit the roof. I told him yet again he shouldn't have dismissed my feelings the way he had, calling them 'ridiculous'. He then asked if he should just be okay with and accepting of everything I do and say. I said no, of course not--but the way he acted toward me in that moment when I needed him to understand was cold and mean, and it made me wonder about him. I was so worked up and upset I had started crying, and I slammed my hand on the arm of the couch. I swore a lot. He asked if he should be doing that too, if he should be so accepting of that behavior from me. That's another difference between us--I start yelling pretty quickly, I swear, sometimes I cry if I'm upset enough, I wring my hands, and despite him having a temper that rivals mine (or so he says) he stays pretty calm. He hasn't ever shouted at me, or cussed me out. That ever-present fact is what makes me think the physical force was a one-off...indeed, when comparing the two of us you'd think it would be me more likely to hit him.

 

It all settled as it normally does. But I have a guard up. I don't trust him as much. I haven't been intimate with him--he's tried but I've refused him. I think the physical force was a one-off. I don't think it will happen again. He seemed sincere when he said he never intended to hurt me. What I'm honestly more concerned with at this point is how he reacted to my visible hurt after the incident--the way he was so cold and dismissive toward me.

 

You realize you have single-handedly ended your relationship this this decision, right?