As men, we need to be sensitive to the safety of women?

[irc333]

Was having a discussion among friends, and someone was telling me that with the way the world is these days, esp. with what you hear on the news and the like, it's no wonder women tend to be overly cautious when men approach them. He was saying that doing any kind of cold-turkey approach be it at a gas station, bookstore, or whatever....and perhaps forgoe that altogether. Because they don't know who you are or what you're capable of.

 

He says, women have to be cautious on a constant basis or on alert almost instinctively. And if you're not in tune with that, any kind of approach without any real kind of familiarization can be off-putting, even though you do have a clean record and you're friends can vouche for you, but she doesn't know that.

 

That the only real way to get to know a woman is through a network of her friends knowing YOU, and the like.

 

Though, some KIND of approach has to be done, but apparently these days.....you cannot just go up to a woman and start talking to her. You better have a good reason basically?

 

Any truth to this?

[Feelsgoodman]

This is just my humble opinion, but men should stop approaching women PERIOD. Let them chase us.

[Elysian Powder]

Was having a discussion among friends, and someone was telling me that with the way the world is these days, esp. with what you hear on the news and the like, it's no wonder women tend to be overly cautious when men approach them. He was saying that doing any kind of cold-turkey approach be it at a gas station, bookstore, or whatever....and perhaps forgoe that altogether. Because they don't know who you are or what you're capable of.

 

He says, women have to be cautious on a constant basis or on alert almost instinctively. And if you're not in tune with that, any kind of approach without any real kind of familiarization can be off-putting, even though you do have a clean record and you're friends can vouche for you, but she doesn't know that.

 

That the only real way to get to know a woman is through a network of her friends knowing YOU, and the like.

 

Though, some KIND of approach has to be done, but apparently these days.....you cannot just go up to a woman and start talking to her. You better have a good reason basically?

 

Any truth to this?

 

it won't get you laid. And many guys did that. it got them killed. Sex ain't worth your dignity, let alone your life.

[carhill]

Ever since a local gal dumped her husband alive into a barrel of acid, I don't worry so much about the safety of women.

[Elysian Powder]

but men should stop approaching women PERIOD. Let them chase us.

 

By chasing women, we lower our value. Men are the masters of the solar system. why should lions chase ants.

[TheBigQuestion]

As a practical matter, yes, men DO need to be sensitive to the safety concerns of women and how their pick-up approaches may appear to them.

 

With that said, "stranger danger" is something completely blown out of proportion by the media and most women eat it up for reasons I cannot comprehend. The vast, vast majority of rape and sexual battery against women is committed by acquaintances, family members, and "friends." The vast majority of verbally harassing behavior is usually perpetrated by those groups of people and in the workplace. The funny thing is, they teach you this in health class in high school and in self-defense seminars everywhere, while simultaneously scaring women into believing that there are predators lurking in every street corner. There's such a mixed message that it doesn't surprise me that women end up irrationally fearing random men's approaches.

 

It reminds me of an article I read a few years back. It was either in Time or Newsweek. It detailed the actions of what some people deemed "America's Worst Mother." This woman was an author or minor public figure of some sort and let her 9 year old son navigate the New York subways (during civilized hours) by himself. There was a significant uproar, and she received quite a bit of hate mail. Her response was about as rational and common-sense as parents allow themselves to get nowadays: violent crime in general has decreased in the United States in the past 30 years. Children are far more likely to be abused, kidnapped, or killed in the hands of family members, friends, and friends' parents. This parent rightfully told America that if you want to be scared and suspicious as to your child's safety, you need to place more scrutiny not on the random people walking in the street, but on the kid's friends, the friends' parents, or other family members.

 

I guess the point I'm trying to make is, for their own safety, women ought to be WAY more suspicious of their male friends and acquaintances than some poor sucker who walks up to her at a newsstand, because the statistics for violence against women play out in pretty much the same way as violence against children.

Edited November 28, 2011 by TheBigQuestion

[FitChick]

Ever since a local gal dumped her husband alive into a barrel of acid, I don't worry so much about the safety of women.

 

Good Lord, where do you live? Mexico?

[Feelsgoodman]

By chasing women, we lower our value. Men are the masters of the solar system. why should lions chase ants.

I wouldn't put things in such dramatic terms, but having lived in a number of different countries, my observations are that the less the men chase, the more agreeable the women of that particular culture are. Russia is perhaps the most extreme example. Russian men don't really chase women. In fact, men who are preoccupied with getting laid are seen as pathetic.

 

Russian women, in contrast, are desperate to snatch a man by the time they are 25, which is considered the "best before" date for women over there. A woman who is not married or at least in a long-term relationship by that point of her life is seen as a failure in life.

 

So yes, it's all about power. The more you chase, the less power you have.

[carhill]

Good Lord, where do you live? Mexico?

Read.........

[Forever Learning]

Was having a discussion among friends, and someone was telling me that with the way the world is these days, esp. with what you hear on the news and the like, it's no wonder women tend to be overly cautious when men approach them.

 

He says, women have to be cautious on a constant basis or on alert almost instinctively. Any truth to this?

 

It's a dangerous world for women and children. It just is. I've had so many instances of weirdness from men over the years I wouldn't know where to start on this topic.

 

I currently have to watch out for a creepy male neighbor two doors down who is eyeballing me all the time. I don't like to go out to my car at night because of Mr. Creepy. So yes, women have to be on guard and high alert way too much. It just sucks honestly. Because I really enjoy making small talk with people I meet in everyday situations. I always learn something new. Luckily in Texas you can carry a handgun which helps alot, since so many of us do so - that alone is a great deterrent. A gun isn't the holy grail that guarantees protection but it can be helpful in some situations. God bless Texas.

[carhill]

Adding, my exW survived just fine the neighborhoods of Chicago and Anaheim and her various adventures while we were married without big bad carhill looking over her. She was a better handler of a firearm than myself. No worries here.

 

We now can apply for a CCW in my jurisdiction without a 'reason'. I envision a lot more women carrying and being proficient with the 'equalizer'.

[Feelsgoodman]

Good point about guns. A woman can be trained to use one just as proficiently as a man. The whole "poor vulnerable women" vs. "awful predatory men" is yet another example of anti-male propaganda espoused by contemporary society.

[carhill]

The hard part and where a woman's great skill for multitasking comes in is yelling 'stop or I'll shoot' into the cell phone/earbud with 911 on the line while filling the target with bullets. CCW instructor taught that one.

 

I've always noticed Texans to be so polite

[Queen Zenobia]

Good point about guns. A woman can be trained to use one just as proficiently as a man. The whole "poor vulnerable women" vs. "awful predatory men" is yet another example of anti-male propaganda espoused by contemporary society.

 

Absolutely agree. Now, why aren't there more feminist pro-gun's rights groups out there?

[TheBigQuestion]

It's a dangerous world for women and children. It just is.

 

Yes it is. The issue is that most women are far too ignorant of where the greatest, most probable dangers lie. Same deal with parents.

[Feelsgoodman]

Absolutely agree. Now, why aren't there more feminist pro-gun's rights groups out there?

Because private gun ownership runs contrary to the feminist agenda of emasculating men.

[Feelsgoodman]

It's a dangerous world for women and children. It just is. I've had so many instances of weirdness from men over the years I wouldn't know where to start on this topic.

It's a dangerous world for men too. Statistically speaking, men are much more likely to become victims of violent crime than women or children.

[sweetjasmine]

That the only real way to get to know a woman is through a network of her friends knowing YOU, and the like.

 

Though, some KIND of approach has to be done, but apparently these days.....you cannot just go up to a woman and start talking to her. You better have a good reason basically?

 

Any truth to this?

 

For me, personally, yes. I've never in my life given out a phone number to or gone out with a complete stranger, including men who have come up to me in bookstores, bars, etc.. I've spent time living in relatively high crime areas and in a country where pick-pocketing and robbery are extremely common. The culprits are men, women, and children, so you learn to eye everyone and stay aware of your surroundings and belongings no matter what. It's a difficult habit to shake, though I'm less careful in my current environment than I was in a more dangerous place.

 

The vast, vast majority of rape and sexual battery against women is committed by acquaintances, family members, and "friends."

 

100% true and well worth pointing out. But I'll add that rape and sexual battery aren't the only concerns.

[TheBigQuestion]

 

100% true and well worth pointing out. But I'll add that rape and sexual battery aren't the only concerns.

 

Oh I know. I only point that out because most women, at least rhetorically, explain that they keep mace in their purse at all times to ward off potential rapists when they're walking around in public. They don't do it to fend off pickpockets, or to ward off unwelcome advances from Joe Acquaintance.

[ThsAmericanLife]

This might sound bizarre... but I thank my parents for letting me and my sister be 'latchkey kids' starting around the age of 9.

 

I can't tell you the number of adventures me and my sis had... after school, during the summer, you name it... mostly free of adult supervision or intervention. This was on the 'mean' streets of Southern CA... not some happy little burg out in the sticks.

 

Nothing bad ever happened to either one of us, except more than our fair share of skinned knees, sprained wrists... oh, my sis stepped on a nail and she needed a tetanus shot.

 

I attribute this somewhat unconventional upbringing for my utter confidence in driving across country solo many times... traveling to Europe without so much as reserving a hotel room in advance... backpacking solo in the woods... and other 'adventures' too numerous to list.

 

Life is too short to walk around afraid.

 

Just be alert, and be ready to kick *ss if need be. They say that scares away 99% of possible predators anyway.

 

Edited: I don't give out my number to strangers unless it is for a business purpose. Mostly because I don't want to be bothered for dates by complete strangers... if I were into that, I'd go back to online dating.

Edited November 29, 2011 by ThsAmericanLife

[sweetjasmine]

Oh I know. I only point that out because most women, at least rhetorically, explain that they keep mace in their purse at all times to ward off potential rapists when they're walking around in public. They don't do it to fend off pickpockets, or to ward off unwelcome advances from Joe Acquaintance.

 

Well, that one lady in CA used it to get her hands on an Xbox, so I guess anything's possible these days.

 

In all seriousness, though, I think a lot of women focus more on the "stranger danger" threat of rape/sexual assault because it feels like it's something you can spot and prevent. Point out the statistics and then ask a woman which of her male friends/acquaintances/family members she thinks is most likely to rape her, and she'll say, "But my friends/family/colleagues/classmates would never do anything like that. Why would I interact with them and be around them if I thought they could?"

 

It's easier to put a container of mace in your purse (which, realistically, you're probably never going to use) than to think about how you might one day put your trust in someone who might abuse it and attack you. It's easier to be wary of complete strangers than to be wary of people you've spent time with and think you know. Focusing on protecting yourself from stranger danger at least makes you feel like you're doing something, which is why I think a lot of women do it.

[Cypress25]

As a woman, I would love it if I could go outside for a leisurely stroll around my downtown Baltimore neighborhood at 2:00 in the morning. But I don't do that, because my city has the second-highest per-capita murder rate in the nation. And murder isn't even what I fear the most. For women, rape or sexual assault is usually the primary concern.

 

I don't consider myself a paranoid person, or even an overly cautious person. But I am a sensible person, and so I avoid dangerous situations. Not that women have to be helpless. I take a self-defense class (Krav Maga) and I do carry a small blade, but hopefully I'll never have to use it. I don't carry a gun because I hate guns.

 

Back to the OP, it's true that most young women are cautious about strange men approaching them. I think it's understandable. Men can scoff all they want and say the dangers are exaggerated, but they don't know what it's like to be a potential victim of sexual assault. It's just not something they have to worry about.

 

That's not to say men can't approach women anywhere. A cold approach is more acceptable and less threatening in certain places, like a bookstore or a club. You know, public places where people often go to socialize. I would not recommend approaching a woman at a gas station. That's creepy.

 

It reminds me of an article I read a few years back. It was either in Time or Newsweek. It detailed the actions of what some people deemed "America's Worst Mother." This woman was an author or minor public figure of some sort and let her 9 year old son navigate the New York subways (during civilized hours) by himself. There was a significant uproar, and she received quite a bit of hate mail. Her response was about as rational and common-sense as parents allow themselves to get nowadays: violent crime in general has decreased in the United States in the past 30 years. Children are far more likely to be abused, kidnapped, or killed in the hands of family members, friends, and friends' parents.

 

I assume you're not talking about this kid: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/07/14/nyc-boy-possibly-tied-up-before-being-killed-police-say/

 

This parent rightfully told America that if you want to be scared and suspicious as to your child's safety, you need to place more scrutiny not on the random people walking in the street, but on the kid's friends, the friends' parents, or other family members.

 

And how did this parent know that the kid's potentially dangerous friends and family members were not also walking the streets while he was alone in the city? Since he was totally unsupervised, he could have been meeting up with his drug dealer cousins in the subway. How would his mother know?

 

It might be true that many violent crimes are committed by people who know the victims personally, but that doesn't mean that strangers are always safe. It seems kind of stupid to think, "Well, I don't know these people, so I'm probably safe with them, because the statistics say I'm more likely to be killed by an acquaintance." Plenty of violent crimes are committed against strangers; the risk is very real. Women and young children are often seen as easy targets. I don't like it either, but being in denial is not the solution.

[TheBigQuestion]

As a woman, I would love it if I could go outside for a leisurely stroll around my downtown Baltimore neighborhood at 2:00 in the morning. But I don't do that, because my city has the second-highest per-capita murder rate in the nation. And murder isn't even what I fear the most. For women, rape or sexual assault is usually the primary concern.

 

I don't consider myself a paranoid person, or even an overly cautious person. But I am a sensible person, and so I avoid dangerous situations. Not that women have to be helpless. I take a self-defense class (Krav Maga) and I do carry a small blade, but hopefully I'll never have to use it. I don't carry a gun because I hate guns.

 

Back to the OP, it's true that most young women are cautious about strange men approaching them. I think it's understandable. Men can scoff all they want and say the dangers are exaggerated, but they don't know what it's like to be a potential victim of sexual assault. It's just not something they have to worry about.

 

That's not to say men can't approach women anywhere. A cold approach is more acceptable and less threatening in certain places, like a bookstore or a club. You know, public places where people often go to socialize. I would not recommend approaching a woman at a gas station. That's creepy.

 

 

 

I assume you're not talking about this kid: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/07/14/nyc-boy-possibly-tied-up-before-being-killed-police-say/

 

 

 

And how did this parent know that the kid's potentially dangerous friends and family members were not also walking the streets while he was alone in the city? Since he was totally unsupervised, he could have been meeting up with his drug dealer cousins in the subway. How would his mother know?

 

It might be true that many violent crimes are committed by people who know the victims personally, but that doesn't mean that strangers are always safe. It seems kind of stupid to think, "Well, I don't know these people, so I'm probably safe with them, because the statistics say I'm more likely to be killed by an acquaintance." Plenty of violent crimes are committed against strangers; the risk is very real. Women and young children are often seen as easy targets. I don't like it either, but being in denial is not the solution.

 

A couple of things.

 

1. If you live in Baltimore, avoiding the streets at 2AM is a matter of common sense regardless of your gender. I agree with you there. With that said, your environment is not typical.

 

2. Where did you get the idea that strangers are safe? I never said that. The woman in the article never said that. The only thing I said is that, by every possible statistical measure, women and children are far, far more likely to be victimized by people they know than by people they don't know. Allowing your 9-year-old kid to go on the Subway with reasonable constraints and parameters is not the equivalent of broadly declaring "strangers are safe." Similarly, a woman is wasting purse space by carrying pepper spray in a suburb or a well-lit, well-populated city center. It's a matter of conducting your life based on life's realities, the realities backed by hard evidence, rather than on irrational fears.

 

3. Kids are way more likely to have messed up things happen to them at the hands of family members and people they know. The fact that you linked me to a news story like that only proves my point: you're influenced by media which disproportionately reports things like that.

 

And furthermore, it's bad form to put words in another poster's mouth. If you're trying to justify your own irrational behaviors, justify away, but don't base it on statements that no one in this thread made.

Edited November 29, 2011 by TheBigQuestion

[Elysian Powder]

Good Lord, where do you live? Mexico?

 

these also happened in Mexico.

 

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/women/index.html

 

I've personally seen civilians die while defending women who where unknown to them. every time I see a woman in distress, I tell her we're equals and I go on my merry way.

[Cypress25]

Where did you get the idea that strangers are safe? I never said that. The woman in the article never said that. The only thing I said is that, by every possible statistical measure, women and children are far, far more likely to be victimized by people they know than by people they don't know.

 

Pointing out that people are more likely to be victimized by people they know seems to imply that they should ONLY worry about people they know, and they should NEVER worry about strangers. Anyway, I was thinking more about the mother of that 9-year-old boy, who seems to think that strangers in the subway could never pose a threat to her kid.

 

The fact that you linked me to a news story like that only proves my point: you're influenced by media which disproportionately reports things like that.

 

It only has to happen once! I'm aware that crimes like the Leiby Kletzky murder are not common, but the fact that it happened even once is disturbing to me. That could have been any kid walking down the street by himself. It could have happened to that 9-year-old boy whose mother is convinced that the strangers of NYC will never harm her child. Are kids likely to be kidnapped and murdered by strangers? No, but it's not impossible. It does happen. I mean, I'm not likely to get into a car accident every time I drive, but I still wear my seatbelt. Like you said, it's just common sense.

 

And furthermore, it's bad form to put words in another poster's mouth. If you're trying to justify your own irrational behaviors, justify away, but don't base it on statements that no one in this thread made.

 

Calm down. I didn't put words in anyone's mouth and I don't engage in any irrational behaviors. I'm sorry, I don't have a young child to send out into the city streets to prove just how "rational" I am. I have only myself to take care of, and I think I do a pretty good job.