mmk2 Posted November 28, 2011 Posted November 28, 2011 I am finalizing my divorce the first week of January, so I am still seperated. I went out with this girl 4 times, with no sex. This was fine as she said she wanted to go slow and I really liked her. She knew my complete situation. Last Saturday at dinner, she told me for the first time that "going slow" meant no sex until my divorce. She asked how I felt and I told her it wasnt going to work for me. She argued with me and said I should be able to wait 6 weeks but I told her I would feel like there was a wall in our relationship and would not allow our relationship to develop. Plus, of course, she wanted to be exclusive which meant no sex with anyone else either. She texted me soon after we left dinner that was glad she did not give in to my "needs" and that I was selfish. I feel like this is a "next!" situation not worthy trying to save, especially since we disagree and its so early. Also, I am selfish? I feel she should've said what "going slow" meant upfront. Your thoughts? Thanks!
carhill Posted November 28, 2011 Posted November 28, 2011 Welcome to LS Read the thread I penned about two years ago while I was separated pending divorce for perspective from the ladies of LS. IMO, I see it as currently incompatible relationship styles. IOW, neither of you is right nor wrong, merely different in how you view the dynamic. I can empathize with both sides, having been separated and dating, as well as having dated separated women in my past life. If you need the validation of sex now, you do. Go find it. There are lots of women out there. This one is but one of billions. Good luck
RiverRunning Posted November 28, 2011 Posted November 28, 2011 Although, to be real here, you can't go 6 weeks without sex? I don't think her request is entirely unreasonable. She doesn't want to be sleeping with a man who is still technically married, and until that ink is signed (you say it's in January, but even she can't be certain that you're getting a divorce until it's done), you aren't divorced. I can't blame her for not wanting to be 'the woman who slept with a married man,' even if that married man is getting divorced (but isn't divorced yet). You're getting divorced anyways, so obviously there's no sex from the ex. You could get a lot of easy lays in a shorter period of time, but this is someone who wants to have a relationship with you. You've been out on four dates -so you've been seeing each other for what, a month or two? That still means you'd get laid within the 3-4 month range, which isn't crazy at all. My feeling is that yes, you are being selfish. The situation might be different if you weren't getting a divorce, but you are. What else does "going slow" usually mean, anyways? Usually it's either "I don't want to commit to a relationship with you yet" or "I don't want to have sex with you yet." I'm not really understanding why the idea that she told you that it meant no sex until after your divorce seems like such a shocker. In any case, if there was any doubt or suspicion, it was on you to ask her to clarify what that meant. It's one thing to have differing viewpoints. I could even empathize if this situation were just, "She doesn't want to have sex for 2, 4, 6, 12, 34 more months, but I can't wait that long. What should I do?" And my advice would be, "Well, you should probably move on then." But six weeks is a walk in the park (I've done that while IN a close-distance relationship, and while wanting it) and she's got a very good reason for it. She doesn't want to feel like 'the other woman.' I think she's doing herself a favor.
dasein Posted November 28, 2011 Posted November 28, 2011 I think she is being reasonable. With all the psycho exes running around in the world, why give them the excuse of not being officially divorced to go off on a new person and make your life miserable? IMO, it speaks well of her good judgment. And also looking at it from her POV, how does she -know- that you are really done with your ex until she sees that paper? People swear up and down that they will never ever reconcile and then do just that every day, leaving rebound relationships as collateral damage. She may have had a friend experience this or even has herself in the past. I think it's a little irresponsible to date while separated, not world class evil, just a bit irresponsible (like leaving lights on and wasting electricity irresponsible, not trying to beat you up LOL), and in that situation, you should feel lucky that she was even willing to start up with you. Best wishes. EDIT: I remember years ago when an uncle was dating a separated woman, it was a full-blown family scandal. Times sure have changed.
phineas Posted November 28, 2011 Posted November 28, 2011 As a divorced man I can relate to her & how she feels. however, if she's so concerned about the whole you still being married she shouldn't of gone out with you in the first place & she surely has no right to expect you to be exclusive with her when she technically doesn't want to be with you until you are divorced. I couldn't get a woman to date me when separated. I got laid a few times but that was it. I did date a few women post divorce who said they wanted to "take it slow". One was sleeping with her ex & the other had a FWB. I found out & since then sex = exclusive.
Eeyore79 Posted November 28, 2011 Posted November 28, 2011 It seems to me that you must only be interested in sex, and not interested in this woman as a person, because if you genuinely liked her you'd be willing to wait until she felt comfortable. It's a huge red flag if a man doesn't respect your wishes, so I'd be surprised if she agrees to another date. As for dating a person who isn't yet divorced - I wouldn't do it myself, and neither would any of the women I know. If you're still married to someone else, most women would say no thanks, and tell you to call them when you're single. It's a bit of a red flag if you're jumping into another relationship before the previous one has even ended properly. I also don't think she's unreasonable to want exclusivity if she genuinely likes you and wants to get to know you better. All in all, I think it's pretty obvious that you both have different expectations and want different things, so it's probably best that you go your separate ways.
CarrieT Posted November 29, 2011 Posted November 29, 2011 What Eeyore said. Waiting six weeks is putting a wall? Puleeze - that would show me you are only interested in sex if you can't allow a relationship "to develop" without sex for six weeks. I wouldn't see you again if you put that kind of stipulation on me, nor would I have sex with you while you are still married.
oaks Posted November 29, 2011 Posted November 29, 2011 She texted me soon after we left dinner that was glad she did not give in to my "needs" and that I was selfish. I feel like this is a "next!" situation not worthy trying to save, especially since we disagree and its so early. Also, I am selfish? I feel she should've said what "going slow" meant upfront. With that text from her I think she's already nexted you. Not sure about selfish, but what you want and what she wants are different. It's not going to work.
Author mmk2 Posted November 29, 2011 Author Posted November 29, 2011 Thank you all for the replies. I do totally understand her position and did not argue with her. I totally get that many women would feel that way. While some feel that "going slow"always means no sex until my divorce, that was a first for me and not obvious. I think sex is part of a healthy and growing relationship and to take that out of the mix does inhibit any relationship. If she had her issues with that, and I was totwlly honest with her, I believe she should have been more direct in the beginning or, alternativrly, not date me. I don't think it is unreasonable or unexpected that I would think that sex would be part of our relationship, even before my divorce.
CarrieT Posted November 29, 2011 Posted November 29, 2011 I think sex is part of a healthy and growing relationship and to take that out of the mix does inhibit any relationship. If she had her issues with that, and I was totally honest with her, I believe she should have been more direct in the beginning or, alternativrly, not date me. You went out with her four times, dude! This is what dating is all about - learning these things! Sex IS part of a healthy and growing relationship but for a lot of women, regardless if the man is single or not, even sex after four dates is too soon. How does a women be more direct from the onset about such things? I was always one to have sex within the first few dates and it was only one recent experience where a guy insisted on dating for almost four months without sex that blew my mind and ultimately ended the relationship. But there is no way to pre-screen someone for that kind of thought and that she was honest with you when she was sounds healthy and rational and I think you are giving her a hard time.
Author mmk2 Posted November 29, 2011 Author Posted November 29, 2011 (edited) Carrie, I absolutely agree with you. Discovery is part of dating and a large part of the fun of dating. I have no problems with her having that timetable. Everyone has to do what is right for them and I have no hard feelings. What I was trying to say is if her time table from the outset was no sex until I am divorced, which is absolutely her right, I wish she would have said that instead of the more nebulous "lets take it slow", which I understood to mean "when the time is right" not some already fixed time of when my divorce is final. Ultimately, having my needs I feel is just as valid as her need to wait. Just people with different relationship styles. I really liked her but, as Carrie says, it was just four dates. Edited November 29, 2011 by mmk2 typo
Ruby Slippers Posted November 29, 2011 Posted November 29, 2011 Six weeks is nothing. You could have had a lot of fun with drawing out the anticipation and celebrating your divorce with some hot sex with the new woman. If you can't wait six weeks to have sex with her, I think you must not like her that much.
carhill Posted November 29, 2011 Posted November 29, 2011 OP, was 'sexless' a feature of your marriage?
Author mmk2 Posted November 29, 2011 Author Posted November 29, 2011 Carhill, yes it was. In anticipation of the posts saying all I want is sex, I've have two relationships while seperated over the last 16 months where sex was part of those relationships. I think it is essential to any healthy relationship.
FinOuch Posted November 29, 2011 Posted November 29, 2011 Carhill, yes it was. In anticipation of the posts saying all I want is sex, I've have two relationships while seperated over the last 16 months where sex was part of those relationships. I think it is essential to any healthy relationship. I agree that sex is essential to a healthy relationship...but there's a massive difference between waiting and having no prospect of sex at all. I don't think it's unreasonable at all that any woman expect a man to wait for sex under any circumstance. Six weeks is not that long. Is it really that big of a deal to you to wait a month and a half?? A lot of women have a personal standard that they wouldn't even consider sleeping with anyone within the first couple months of dating...regardless of whether that other person is separated, divorced, never married, or whatever. Many women want to take the time to get to know the person they are dating, and to allow for an emotional connection to be established first. Pressuring or getting upset at the prospect of having to wait indicates that you're just looking for sex with this woman, and not an actual relationship. I agree with your date completely. Don't be surprised if she never contacts you again.
carhill Posted November 29, 2011 Posted November 29, 2011 On the positive side, the OP was clear about his intentions, that he wanted a sexual relationship, which is what men want with women. Their styles are apparently currently incompatible. Unknown if that is permanent. On one hand, I can see her perspective. On the other, I've had women friend-zone me that way when I agree to 'wait'. They've strung me along. That's not so positive. OP, how would you rate her non-sexual physical affection and response to yours?
blueskyday Posted November 29, 2011 Posted November 29, 2011 Yes, she could have let you known that she wouldn't feel comfortable having sex with you until you are divorced. Yes, you could have shown her she meant something to you by waiting a couple of months to have sex. Six weeks is not much time, and after your divorce you and she could have had a great time together in bed! If you want relationships, then understand most women like to wait a while to have sex. It doesn't mean that you will go sexless like you did in your marriage. I don't sleep with guys after four dates. Been there, done that. It never worked out well to sleep with a guy right away, although I often wanted to very badly. Many guys are just into it for the sex, and don't want a relationship, even if they agree to monogamy. Best to weed those guys out. I now prefer to wait until the emotions catch up to the passion, maybe after ten dates, or after a month or two. It just depends. There needs to be a relationship in place first. But, if you want to have a lot of short term sex/dating situations, then I get it. You might need some of that during this time.
blueskyday Posted November 29, 2011 Posted November 29, 2011 If it had been me, I would have been very affectionate with you, upped the affection ante up a bit at a time until it was close to the divorce. Then I would have suggested we wait until the divorce papers were signed to "celebrate!" So maybe it was good you two cleared it up now. Would you have stuck it out with her if she was being affectionate and sexy with you, without sleeping with you? I find that most guys will wait if they get a sense that I really love sex and I can't keep my hands off them. I'm affectionate. Just curious if she was affectionate with you, or if you were afraid she was cold in that respect.
phineas Posted November 29, 2011 Posted November 29, 2011 On the positive side, the OP was clear about his intentions, that he wanted a sexual relationship, which is what men want with women. Their styles are apparently currently incompatible. Unknown if that is permanent. On one hand, I can see her perspective. On the other, I've had women friend-zone me that way when I agree to 'wait'. They've strung me along. That's not so positive. OP, how would you rate her non-sexual physical affection and response to yours? This was my experiance also. There is a small window for making the move, you miss it & you are done.
OliveOyl Posted November 29, 2011 Posted November 29, 2011 I see both sides on this issue. I think it's just incompatible styles. It may seem selfish on his part, but when you've been in a sexless marriage and going through a longer divorce then waiting can seem like an arbitrary boundary. Like rather than honoring the natural course of development of the relationship, it's a "wall" on her side as well. You can also say that if it's being finalized in January after a long separation then the chances of reconciliation are pretty much nil by now. (My divorce will be final in January as well and I've been dating a separated man for several months. My BF's divorce will be final in a few months as well. I have no regrets--we're happy.) On the other hand, I do completely understand her side as well. There is the security and symbological statement of having things finalized. And six weeks isn't a horribly long time. I guess I would say if she felt like "the one" then it's worth continuing to date her, but if you felt a lot of rigidness and judgement in the way she expressed her boundaries then your feelings are understandable. If she went into a dating relationship fully knowing you were separated then it seems a bit hypocritical to start setting boundaries. Either don't date separated men, or do. But don't "punish" them for being separated.
Author mmk2 Posted November 29, 2011 Author Posted November 29, 2011 I would rate her non-sexual physical affection and response to yours as very responsive and physical....to a point. Then she would stop herself and say "we need to go slow." This is all she said until she was more specific last Saturday. Surprisingly, she continued to be very affectionate at the resturant for the hour after I told her waiting would not work for me. Still wondering about that behavior. Then the "selfish" text 20 minutes after we left the place. To be clear, I am not upset with her position. But, she knew my situation from the beginning, I was 100% honest on where I was. I also never pressured her into anything, I totally respected her position, it just wasn't right for me. I just wish she told me that from the get go, so I agree with OliveOyl. I don't know that she was "the one" for me. I think that's impossible to know after 4 dates.
carhill Posted November 29, 2011 Posted November 29, 2011 Surprisingly, she continued to be very affectionate at the resturant for the hour after I told her waiting would not work for me. Still wondering about that behavior. Then the "selfish" text 20 minutes after we left the place. That's a canary, IMO. A disconnect. Especially such a disclosure communicated impersonally. I'll now suggest moving on, without prejudice, to the next potential. Good luck.
Author mmk2 Posted December 4, 2011 Author Posted December 4, 2011 i've thought about this over the last week. Is it too late to call and talk to her?
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