Women don't fall for a guy till after they've had sex

[Jane2011]

I've been seeing someone for three weeks now, and yeah, I did start feeling more for him after we had sex (on our fourth date). But I liked him already anyway. As others have said, sex intensifies already-existing feelings but doesn't create them. Over the years, I've developed feelings for many guys who I'd never even hugged or kissed, much less had sex with.

[Mme. Chaucer]

I'm in the camp of no sex until already fallen. Then I fall more.

[Andy_K]

Your cousin is absolutely correct, and it has zilch to do with PUA culture.

Once a woman has had sex, the power dynamic changes, and women respond most to men with more power over them, perceived or actual.

 

Before sex, she is like an HR manager with a sharp red pencil, marking every flaw on your resume' in an effort to nix you and cut down the number of applicants. After sex, she becomes a very different kind of HR manager, trying to fit your resume' into the job despite your actual qualifications.

 

"I had sex with him, so he must be worthy, else I am to blame for being sexually indiscriminate, an unacceptable position."

 

Their vanity and inability to deal with personal responsibility for their actions causes this kind of irrational polar shift in perspective. With women, you will find no middle ground between goat and hero, and which pole you are on in the early going often depends on whether you have had sex with her.

 

I was going to add to this thread, but the above is pretty much exactly what I was going to say. Dasein speaks the truth.

[OliveOyl]

Honestly? I think the older the woman, the more likely this is to be true.

 

Younger women--no, make that younger PEOPLE--tend to be more in love with the IDEA of love. With women this may mean sexuality is not as strong a part of the attraction. There is a lot of fantasy, projection, smoke and mirrors operating based on ideals, built up since childhood, as well as trying find someone who will fill in the gap for less than perfect parenting.

 

However after life experience and busting through these projections (e.g. failed relationships, worked through the Daddy issues, etc.) having a partner is less about one's internal romantic projections. At this point, in my opinion, sex has a stronger impact in creating attachment and bonding.

[oaks]

The last thread I made touched on this, but everybody focused on the alcohol aspect.

 

Previously you had a certain way with words.

 

So how true is it that women don't really develop feelings for men till after sex? And if that's the case, why are they having sex with men that they don't have feelings for?

 

You've pretty much answered your own question... it isn't true. Well, it isn't exclusively true.

 

Having feelings isn't like flicking a light switch.

[PlumPrincess]

Exactly. I have a friend actually who got his gf pregnant. But for their age it was foolish that she didn't use birth control and he didn't use condoms, and instead did the ol' withdrawal method for years. Finally one day he woke up and realized he was going to be a dad by accident and he broke down and cried. But before he got her pregnant he kept complaining about breaking up with her, etc.

 

So she chose not to get an abortion and he has no choice but to play the father role, they are now engaged. Their baby was born last week. All my friends (male and female) know and claim, that this was his gf's form of entrapment because she's been wanting to be a mother for a long time and wanting to marry him/be her husband.

 

I think sex is a powerful tool women employ that a lot of men aren't aware of as a form of manipulation. A lot of women at some point in their lives use it to get what they want out of a guy. I even had an ex do this also.

I don't know. If that worthless loser doesn't want me, I don't want his baby either!

[RiverRunning]

I never connect emotions to sex. Maybe it's my upbringing and the problems I've had in sexual relationships, but I don't feel more connected to people after I have sex with them. If anything, I start to feel less.

[Cypress25]

I have a friend actually who got his gf pregnant. But for their age it was foolish that she didn't use birth control and he didn't use condoms, and instead did the ol' withdrawal method for years. Finally one day he woke up and realized he was going to be a dad by accident and he broke down and cried. But before he got her pregnant he kept complaining about breaking up with her, etc.

 

So she chose not to get an abortion and he has no choice but to play the father role, they are now engaged. Their baby was born last week. All my friends (male and female) know and claim, that this was his gf's form of entrapment because she's been wanting to be a mother for a long time and wanting to marry him/be her husband.

 

How is this his girlfriend's fault, when neither of them were using protection? She chose not to use birth control, he chose not to use condoms, and they both allowed it. But somehow she is the only one responsible for the pregnancy? Seems like they're both 50% responsible for this; they trapped each other. He didn't use a condom and now he's blaming her for getting pregnant? If he didn't want to be a father, he should have used a condom.

[Ruby Slippers]

What causes my bonding to strengthen most of all is when he begins to provide for and protect me. When he anticipates my needs, even in small ways, does little things to help me, and makes sure I'm OK, I start to see him as my man.

[aj22one]

How is this his girlfriend's fault, when neither of them were using protection? She chose not to use birth control, he chose not to use condoms, and they both allowed it. But somehow she is the only one responsible for the pregnancy? Seems like they're both 50% responsible for this; they trapped each other. He didn't use a condom and now he's blaming her for getting pregnant? If he didn't want to be a father, he should have used a condom.

 

Even condoms aren't safe these days. I know a guy whose girlfriend fished his condom out of the trash and turned it inside out inside her just so she could try to get pregnant. Crazy things people do.

[norajane]

What causes my bonding to strengthen most of all is when he begins to provide for and protect me. When he anticipates my needs, even in small ways, does little things to help me, and makes sure I'm OK, I start to see him as my man.

 

Yes, this. My guy put dimmer switches on the lights in my house yesterday...I told him he had made my dreams come true.

 

Sure, women, and men, bond through sex. But only if there's some kind of a bond there to begin with. If not, it's just brain chemicals, and they do fade if not fueled further by something other than sex.

[norajane]

Even condoms aren't safe these days.

 

Yes, but he didn't even try. If he didn't want a child, he should have at least tried to prevent a pregnancy with whatever means possible.

[Cypress25]

Even condoms aren't safe these days. I know a guy whose girlfriend fished his condom out of the trash and turned it inside out inside her just so she could try to get pregnant. Crazy things people do.

 

If that's what happened, then yes, that would be entirely her fault. But I'm talking about a situation where the guy didn't even bother with a condom. He has only himself to blame for that.

[OliveOyl]

Yes, this. My guy put dimmer switches on the lights in my house yesterday...I told him he had made my dreams come true.

 

Sure, women, and men, bond through sex. But only if there's some kind of a bond there to begin with. If not, it's just brain chemicals, and they do fade if not fueled further by something other than sex.

 

Hmmm I see statements like this a lot but in my mind there is a fallacy.

 

People try to downplay parts/aspects of relationships (such as lust, the honeymoon period, limerance, crushes) etc. by tossing around biological terms such as "it's just an oxytocin rush." If you're 100% scientifically minded, it's ALL brain chemicals... all kinds of bonding are created and maintained by what's happening in the brain and biology.

 

I'm not denying that there may also something "else" (e.g. sharing energy/spiritual connection, etc). But people try to minimize parts of relationships by saying it's JUST "brain chemicals" or this or that hormone/endorphin/neurotransmitter.

 

What is a "real" bond and what makes it any different than a "brain chemical" bond? Duration? Permanence? Acceptability?

[norajane]

What is a "real" bond and what makes it any different than a "brain chemical" bond? Duration? Permanence? Acceptability?

 

Sex is only one way of bonding. It is not enough on its own to make people feel fulfilled over time. When the "honeymoon period" wears off (brain chemicals), there must be something else bonding the couple together, something of substance, an emotional and/or intellectual bond.

[Cypress25]

What is a "real" bond and what makes it any different than a "brain chemical" bond? Duration? Permanence? Acceptability?

 

I think the difference is that a deeper bond requires you to know your partner on a personal level. The release of oxytocin during sex could happen with anyone, even if you don't know the person very well. It has nothing to do with your partner's personality or sense of humor or the emotional connection between you. That's why sex can increase feelings of attachment and closeness, but it can't create those feelings out of nothing.

 

Feelings like love, trust, affection, etc. can only develop with someone you know very well. In a good relationship, those feelings can exist with or without sex.

[OliveOyl]

Sex is only one way of bonding. It is not enough on its own to make people feel fulfilled over time. When the "honeymoon period" wears off (brain chemicals), there must be something else bonding the couple together, something of substance, an emotional and/or intellectual bond.

 

What is this substance you speak of which makes emotional and intellectual bonds? My point is emotional and intellectual bonds are also made of "brain chemicals." They may be chemicals which don't dissipate as quickly over time, but they can dissipate as well.

 

I think a lot of people would disagree the implication that sex is not something of substance. Especially those who are in sexless marriages.

[somedude81]

Hmm, so far the answers seem to be all over the place. Basically; yes, no and maybe.

 

BTW, please stop talking about entrapment and forced pregnancies etc. It's off-topic.

 

Because sex feels good, relieves stress and can be fun?! Not every woman needs every sexual relationship to involve feelings.

So this is the answer to why some women have sex with men they don't have any feelings for? It makes perfect sense.

 

I don't think you can fully fall for someone until you've had sex because you don't know how compatible you're going to be in bed. I think you can have strong feelings to a certain extent but until you've been intimate, they're really just a fantasy.

That's a very interesting statement. That the feelings aren't real, until after sex. Then it's the sex that strengthens the preliminary feelings.

 

From my own experience the two guys I've been in love with (my ex and my awesome current boyfriend), I slept with them both before we became official or said the 'L' word etc. It started off as just friends with benefits (true friendships that turned sexual) and over time morphed into a serious loving relationship.

If you don't mind me asking, how did the FWB thing start? How did you feel about them before sex, and after?

I would modify 'do' develop feelings after sex with 'can' develop feelings after sex, meaning feelings of love and attachment. Also, their perception of the quality of the lovemaking is part of that process. Read the anecdotes on LS from women for more information on that aspect.

I don't think the statement is as weak as can, maybe a most likely.

 

Interesting how the quality of the sex can affect the feelings she feels. More on that later.

 

They're having sex with men they have feelings of attraction for. That's quite different from feelings of love and/or emotional attachment. The best way to put it into male terms is do you love/are you attached to the woman you've just met at the bar, hit it off with and take home and have sex with (hypothetically)? I doubt it. You're in lust with her, find her attractive and want to have sex with her. Now, you're thinking you're dating a woman, getting to know her and wondering why it's different for her. One solution is to ask her. A healthy woman can talk about her feelings in general terms and her actions will match up with her talk.

So first a woman has sex with a man whom she only has "feelings of attraction" for?

 

I've never picked up a girl at a bar, so I can't understand your example.

 

I've yet to meet a woman who becomes emotionally attached in a healthy way prior to sex but anything is possible, as there are billions of more data points to experience.

Hmm, so pretty much the same thing my cousin said. Not becoming attached before sex. Which is something that men easily do.

IME, the key is to progress the interaction with sexual expression being on the table at all times, even if/when sex (intercourse or other genital interaction) is not contemplated immediately. Create the boundary that clearly defines this interaction as sexual and romantic. Nature will take its course. Adjunct to this key, be clear about your own needs and desires and understand that this is a mutually voluntary interaction and you are free to leave at any time. My mistake was, overwhelmingly, remaining in unsatisfactory and unsatisfying dynamics much longer than health indicated. Get out if it isn't working for you, whether that is the first interaction or ten or a hundred down the road.

Great advice but something I don't know how to do at this time. Though the best thing I can use right now, is to not waste time with women whom I not getting what I want from.

 

Many times it happens...especially with the low self-esteem girls.

Why does a woman's self-esteem matter?

They get an orgasm with a guy, the oxytocin kicks in, and now they grow feelings.

A good ole orgasm and Oxycontin.

 

Seen many guys get women "hooked" when they took advantage of them when drunk. Not rape, but more started foreplay and she "caved in" and had sex with him.

That's pretty much what I talked about in my alcohol thread.

 

Damn, it would be amazing to get a woman hooked on me. Make a girl cave then she loves me. Is that how things really happen in this world?

I don’t have sex with men I don’t already have feelings for. I did a couple of times when I was younger, but I knew no feelings would develop and it was just for fun.

So no feelings developed at all after sex?

 

Why did you have sex with men you had no feelings for?

 

Why would I use an intimate act like sexual intercourse as the test for whether or not I will be able to develop feelings for someone? I can’t imagine, at this point in my life, having sex with someone I wasn’t already emotionally attached to.

Can you get emotionally attached before having sex?

This is wrong. It's self-serving nonsense exaggerated and proliferated by PUA mentality.

 

We do bond prior to sex. And once sex is in the picture, it continues the bond since it's an extension of intimacy already created prior.

No, I didn't get any of this from the PU industry. I got the info mostly from reading this forum. Not to mention it was from my cousin who has nothing to do with PU, he's just had girlfriends.

This is yet another topic worth not getting caught up in, Somedude81. I think taking all these tips/hints in will only complicate things. If you stretch yourself too many ways, you won't get anything done.

 

I say empty the clutter and focus on developing yourself, and making yourself awesome.

Right now my main focus is on understanding how the hell things actually work.

 

Developing myself is pointless if I have no idea what to focus on.

Your cousin is absolutely correct, and it has zilch to do with PUA culture.

Once a woman has had sex, the power dynamic changes, and women respond most to men with more power over them, perceived or actual.

 

Before sex, she is like an HR manager with a sharp red pencil, marking every flaw on your resume' in an effort to nix you and cut down the number of applicants. After sex, she becomes a very different kind of HR manager, trying to fit your resume' into the job despite your actual qualifications.

 

"I had sex with him, so he must be worthy, else I am to blame for being sexually indiscriminate, an unacceptable position."

 

Their vanity and inability to deal with personal responsibility for their actions causes this kind of irrational polar shift in perspective. With women, you will find no middle ground between goat and hero, and which pole you are on in the early going often depends on whether you have had sex with her.

 

EDIT: On a side note, the above also explains the origin and popularity of the term "friend with benefits" among women.

Very interesting. I'm definitely aware of what it's like to be on the bottom of the power dynamic.

 

I just need to figure out how to switch the dynamic.

IME and that of a few girlfriends, it's not true.

The sex strengths them but I've developed strong feelings before intimacy.

But I've heard you say that sex can make you think you love a guy. Is that different?

You're wrong. Many people told you that you were wrong about this in your other thread, but you chose to ignore it.

 

Many people addressed this in your last thread. Pay attention.

My last thread was a mess thanks to all off-topic posts. I basically trashed it and started again, without the mention of booze.

 

And your MALE cousin is the expert on how women think and feel, right? Why don't you ask women you know in real life?

Why would my male cousin not know? He's the one that girls are falling for. Surely he's learned a few things.

 

I don't know any girls IRL that I'm close enough with to talk about sex with them.

No, it's not generally true. Most women do not have sex with men that they don't have feelings for. I know I've said this a million times but I'll say it again: Sex can intensify feelings that are already there. But sex cannot create feelings out of nothing. If a woman doesn't feel anything for a man, she won't have sex with him, unless she's a prostitute (or drunk).

How strong are those feelings before and after sex?

 

Can it make a woman go from, "I like him, he's a cool guy." To, "I'm madly in love with him and I want babies."

Some women become more attached after sex. But she already had feelings for the guy before sex. That's why she had sex with him. This is not rocket science. It's really quite simple. I can tell you from my own experience that women don't need to have sex to fall for a guy. I had two long-term relationships before I lost my virginity. I dated my college boyfriend for 2.5 years without ever having sex with him, and I was crazy in love with him. I dated my next boyfriend for 8 months without ever having sex with him, and I had very strong feelings for him, although we weren't in love.

In love without sex, so it can happen. Can I ask what made you fall in love?

Somedude, I think you're actually hoping this is true because you want an excuse for why women aren't interested in you. Maybe you'll feel better if you can convince yourself that a woman will magically develop feelings for you if you could just get her to have sex with you. But that won't happen. Think about it: According to your cousin's theory, a virgin couldn't possibly have feelings for anyone. And we all know that's not true, so clearly your cousin's theory is bogus.

All I know is that girls have never fallen for me and I have never had sex with a girl I liked. So I'm just adding two and two. I would love the opportunity to test the hypotheses.

I don't think it's true.

 

In fact, with my last gf, I was pretty p@ssy whipped and the balance of power totally shifted to her.

 

What's up with this girl you are seeing?

I wasn't seeing her. We only hung out and never got intimate. But she never developed feelings, even though we got really close and spent a lot of time together over a couple years.

 

Women are idealistic and want that whole fantasy life in their heads to come together....sex can be the first step of initiating that process. They get to wonder if this guy is the one, they get to feel desired and receive attention even if its not that deep.

So they don't start that process without sex?

 

Some women don't mind sex with no-strings attached but thats even a fine line for most. From experience at one point or another all women seem to develop feelings eventually, the emotions just seem to overwhelm the rational thinking at some point.

I have no interest in no strings sex. But I wonder if I'm missing out on some women.

 

Sex is also something most women find very intimate, where as with many guys poking a wet hole isn't all that big of a deal, they could have just been horny or found the girl attractive or even been desperate.

For me, the level of intimacy depends on how into the girl I am. I wouldn't be surprised if girls are the same way.

 

if you're good in bed, many women will want to stick around...if you're not then it's a little easier to let go of you if you don't meet her expectations anyway.

It depends on how good the sex is. A man can pretty wrap a woman around his finger with great sex.

Again a mention of good sex.

 

I find it amazing that the quality of sex can affect how much the girl falls for a guy.

[somedude81]

OP, for reflection, here's a past thread you penned on this general topic.

Heh, April 2010. A few weeks after I had gotten my first rejection from D. She never did fall for me, and I never even as much as a kiss out of her after all these months. Feb 2010 - Nov 2011.

 

Back then I didn't have a clue how important sex was. I think I know a little more about women and dating. But I'm nowhere even close to where I want to be.

I definitely generically bond to someone through sex ---

 

And like was already mentioned.................

 

If the sex is good, I will then be thoroughly attached. Heh. It's one reason why I won't have sex until I believe I already love the person.

I actually heard something very similar from a woman I talk to online.

 

Damn, how do I get that first screw in so she'll fall in love?

 

LOL, some men want to pump and dump, I want to pump and commit

I've been seeing someone for three weeks now, and yeah, I did start feeling more for him after we had sex (on our fourth date). But I liked him already anyway. As others have said, sex intensifies already-existing feelings but doesn't create them. Over the years, I've developed feelings for many guys who I'd never even hugged or kissed, much less had sex with.

How much more did sex intensify things?

 

And another woman who developed feelings without any contact. It seems that some can and some can't.

Honestly? I think the older the woman, the more likely this is to be true.

Hmm, I'm not sure about that. Wouldn't an older woman be less likely to fall in love. It's well known that older women have less hangup's about sex than younger women. That's why most swingers are in their late 30's and above.

Younger women--no, make that younger PEOPLE--tend to be more in love with the IDEA of love. With women this may mean sexuality is not as strong a part of the attraction. There is a lot of fantasy, projection, smoke and mirrors operating based on ideals, built up since childhood, as well as trying find someone who will fill in the gap for less than perfect parenting.

 

However after life experience and busting through these projections (e.g. failed relationships, worked through the Daddy issues, etc.) having a partner is less about one's internal romantic projections. At this point, in my opinion, sex has a stronger impact in creating attachment and bonding.

Ugh, too confusing. I can't understand any of that.

I never connect emotions to sex. Maybe it's my upbringing and the problems I've had in sexual relationships, but I don't feel more connected to people after I have sex with them. If anything, I start to feel less.

That doesn't seem too healthy.

What causes my bonding to strengthen most of all is when he begins to provide for and protect me. When he anticipates my needs, even in small ways, does little things to help me, and makes sure I'm OK, I start to see him as my man.

But those things take a long time to start happening. I'm sure there are feelings involved before he starts doing the providing and protection.

 

And if those things are done to soon, it can actually piss the woman off. Which has happened to me on more than one occasion.

 

As for the bonding talk in the last few posts, can that happen without sex?

 

From what I've read, sex is pretty much necessary for a happy marriage.

[whichwayisup]

Please tell me I'm wrong.

 

On Friday, I was talking to my cousin, who's much better with women I am, and I told him that I was hoping the girl I was spending time with would have fallen for me. He said that girls don't really fall for guys till after they've had sex.

 

The last thread I made touched on this, but everybody focused on the alcohol aspect.

 

So how true is it that women don't really develop feelings for men till after sex? And if that's the case, why are they having sex with men that they don't have feelings for?

 

Some women are like some men, they don't need love to have sex.

 

I think having sex confirms the deal. A woman can fall for a man without having sex, though it certainly opens makes her become more emotionally attached and bonded to the guy she's making love to.

[Els]

I think it really depends on the woman, SD.

 

Sex certainly creates more of an emotional bond for some women than for men. I think any sexual acts do this for some women, even if they fall short of intercourse.

 

But some women (note I keep saying some) also need to be into a man before they have sex with him. So for these women, having sex to procure interest is rather like putting the cart before the horse.

 

Don't you know any men who are in relationships and also have the same values as you do? Might be better to take advice from them instead of this cousin. Different strokes for different folks, best to get the instructor who matches yours.

[AHardDaysNight]

Regarding the title: any women want to test this out? *wink wink*

 

 

Okay, now that I've successfully creeped you out, no I don't believe this is true.

[OliveOyl]

 

Hmm, I'm not sure about that. Wouldn't an older woman be less likely to fall in love. It's well known that older women have less hangup's about sex than younger women. That's why most swingers are in their late 30's and above.

 

Ugh, too confusing. I can't understand any of that.

Older women can be as likely to fall in love and but since they have less hangups about sex, good sex may be a bigger part of falling in love than for younger women. That was basically what I was trying to say in the second confusing paragraph.

[Els]

Regarding the title: any women want to test this out? *wink wink*

 

 

Okay, now that I've successfully creeped you out, no I don't believe this is true.

 

Oh, you. :lmao::lmao:

[Mrlonelyone]

@Sumdude

 

The simple answer is the right one here.

 

Yes some women only really feel a bond after having sex, but that does not mean a woman does bond with every man she has sex with.

 

I am not a woman biologically but in certain psychological ways I am like one enough. I have had plenty of sex in my life. I cannot say I really bonded with even 25% of them. On the other hand, looking back, everyone I have bonded with did involve multiple encounters not all of which had to be full on "sex".