Is there such a thing as too much communication?

[ScienceGal]

Please help me here, LSers

 

Why would he send this email to me four days after separating?

-----

Hi SG,

 

You may not want to hear from me right now, but I feel like I wasn't clear enough during our conversation the other night. In fact, I feel like I wasn't completely honest with you. And this has been troubling me for a variety of reasons. I think it wasn't really fair to either of us. So I want to say the following...

 

Despite whatever impression I may have given, the reason I decided to stop dating you has very little to do with me being "damaged" from my previous relationship, or me being unable or unwilling to open up in a current relationship...or even me being unable to provide what I think you were looking for in a relationship. I actually really like you and was beginning to open up to you and feel things in a way I hadn't for anyone in a long time. Although this made me feel uneasy, I was willing to go there. I know I have a lot to offer, and that I want to offer to the right person.

 

You seem for the most part to be a very considerate, sweet person. However, it was a few select behaviors and decisions you made -- even after I communicated how I felt about them and gave you a chance to respond -- that indicated you were not likely someone I could maintain a relationship with.

 

This email may seem unnecessary in your mind, but in my mind it's essential. I feel the need to express to you that it was one of two possibilities that led me to end our relationship: either you fundamentally felt differently than I do about what are to me some key issues, or you openly disregarded my feelings. I didn't see either possibility as particularly workable.

 

I don't need to discuss this in any way, but merely wanted to communicate it clearly and honestly as I should have done the other night.

 

I sincerely wish you the best.

Ex new guy

 

-----

I ended up responding and then he called and we talked for a half hour. The "deal breaker" was my boundary issues. I answered a call once from an ex boyfriend from high school who is now my friend (it was late, and I was out with ex new guy, he didn't like it) and I replied to a text from my inappropriate neighbor (he lives above me, and is dating my sister...what can I do?) Not respond is the correct answer. I know this now, I just didn't realize how big of a deal it was.

 

We talked about both situations. I told him that no one has ever discussed boundary issues with me before. He told me every woman he's dated has this issue and he can't deal with it. I told him it seems easily fixable to me, and that if that was the only problem, I still see hope. I told him to call me if he has a change of heart. I don't think there is anything else I can do.

 

Part of building a relationship is communicating and adjusting your life to be with the other person. I could have easily done this, had we 1) clarified that we are in a relationship and 2) had he just asked me to draw boundary lines! He said that he probably didn't do a great job of explaining the boundary issue before now. I am even more upset now than I was before when I thought he just wasn't into me! I feel that there was absolutely no point in him clarifying anything if he didn't want to work on it. He apologized and said he probably shouldn't have sent it. ugh.

 

What do you think? I'm hoping he reflects on what we just talked about and calls me back. I really like this guy, and I think things could have worked out really well for us. This is so disappointing!

Edited December 3, 2011 by ScienceGal

[johan]

Too much verbal communication can definitely be a bad thing. It's better to save it for when it is really needed, say what you need to say as concisely as possible, make sure you listen and are listened to, and get out of the conversation trap and back to just being together as soon as possible. Otherwise things become heavy and too serious. Also, I think in spite of our best efforts, we're all too complicated to describe ourselves in words. The more we try, the more we just end up giving false impressions, contradicting ourselves, and undermining trust.

[dasein]

SG, he sounds like he was navigating his upset over the trivial contacts you had with other men with baggage from past relationships as opposed to anything you did. IME these types need to be left alone to heal or not, but aren't good bets for relationships in the now. I think he did you a favor by breaking up, as who knows when and what will trigger the next "baggage moment?" Who knows what his other unrealistic expectations may be? This could be the tip of the iceberg, and is IME with these types. The few instances you have described are very commonplace, and unless he was sugarcoating the real reason for splitting, which the email suggests is not the case, he has some serious hypersensitivity issues.

 

I've become annoyed by GFs who seem to be fostering an environment of getting as much attention from men as possible by continuing to disrespectfully respond to exes and wannabe suitors, but it doesn't sound like what you were doing here, and in any event isn't a "hanging offense" among normal people anyway. Bad bet for future happiness. Move on.

[ScienceGal]

Thank you both.

 

Dasein, I don't find him bringing it up as an issue of his a problem, as I could certainly be more sensitive to that. It's the waiting 4 days after splitting and then emailing me with no intention of reconciliation. It bothered him for that entire time because he felt he had been dishonest. Why bother emailing and calling? And why wasn't my explanation good enough? How can someone care, but still walk away when there is no real issue? This makes absolutely no sense to me.

 

We are both great people and we have feelings for each other, and have communicated and been honest from the get go, yet somehow it's over. This cannot be real life.

 

I might have to get angry at him for a while just to sort out this ridiculousness and move on.

[realisticbound]

You would probably be walking on pins and needles if he changes his mind and you begin a relationship with him.

 

Please help me here, LSers

 

Why would he send this email to me four days after separating?

-----

Hi SG,

 

You may not want to hear from me right now, but I feel like I wasn't clear enough during our conversation the other night. In fact, I feel like I wasn't completely honest with you. And this has been troubling me for a variety of reasons. I think it wasn't really fair to either of us. So I want to say the following...

 

Despite whatever impression I may have given, the reason I decided to stop dating you has very little to do with me being "damaged" from my previous relationship, or me being unable or unwilling to open up in a current relationship...or even me being unable to provide what I think you were looking for in a relationship. I actually really like you and was beginning to open up to you and feel things in a way I hadn't for anyone in a long time. Although this made me feel uneasy, I was willing to go there. I know I have a lot to offer, and that I want to offer to the right person.

 

You seem for the most part to be a very considerate, sweet person. However, it was a few select behaviors and decisions you made -- even after I communicated how I felt about them and gave you a chance to respond -- that indicated you were not likely someone I could maintain a relationship with.

 

This email may seem unnecessary in your mind, but in my mind it's essential. I feel the need to express to you that it was one of two possibilities that led me to end our relationship: either you fundamentally felt differently than I do about what are to me some key issues, or you openly disregarded my feelings. I didn't see either possibility as particularly workable.

 

I don't need to discuss this in any way, but merely wanted to communicate it clearly and honestly as I should have done the other night.

 

I sincerely wish you the best.

Ex new guy

 

-----

I ended up responding and then he called and we talked for a half hour. The "deal breaker" was my boundary issues. I answered a call once from an ex boyfriend from high school who is now my friend (it was late, and I was out with ex new guy, he didn't like it) and I replied to a text from my inappropriate neighbor (he lives above me, and is dating my sister...what can I do?) Not respond is the correct answer. I know this now, I just didn't realize how big of a deal it was.

 

We talked about both situations. I told him that no one has ever discussed boundary issues with me before. He told me every woman he's dated has this issue and he can't deal with it. I told him it seems easily fixable to me, and that if that was the only problem, I still see hope. I told him to call me if he has a change of heart. I don't think there is anything else I can do.

 

Part of building a relationship is communicating and adjusting your life to be with the other person. I could have easily done this, had we 1) clarified that we are in a relationship and 2) had he just asked me to draw boundary lines! He said that he probably didn't do a great job of explaining the boundary issue before now. I am even more upset now than I was before when I thought he just wasn't into me! I feel that there was absolutely no point in him clarifying anything if he didn't want to work on it. He apologized and said he probably shouldn't have sent it. ugh.

 

What do you think? I'm hoping he reflects on what we just talked about and calls me back. I really like this guy, and I think things could have worked out really well for us. This is so disappointing!

[dasein]

Don't know about angry, but definitely would be annoyed in your shoes. The post dump email signals that he wants to maintain his self-image as a "good guy" at your expense by blameshifting onto your behaviors and rubbing your nose in it. People of class break up and that's that, they may give some reasons if the dumpee did something really bad, but if it's nit-sh-t stuff like this guy is trying to tag you with, then they generally just break up and that's that. I don't like your ex BF based on that email, so am biased. It's like he's trying to take a second bite at the "blame apple" because he doesn't feel comfortable with his self-image after the first bite, and that's childish.

[betterdeal]

I agree with dasein. The bit that stuck in my craw was this

 

I don't need to discuss this in any way, but merely wanted to communicate it clearly and honestly as I should have done the other night.

 

Which comes across to me as a "and no returns" sort of thing. Ah well, he's learning ways to express himself and hopefully he'll grow self-confidence over time. I wouldn't be surprised if there were more emails from him in the coming weeks, even if you respect his wish to not discuss it in any way.

 

Men and women have opposite sex friends. Men and women have opposite sex friends who have a softspot for them. Men and women have previous lovers. He'll need to come to terms with that if he wants to ever have a relationship.

 

You, SG, have nothing to worry about. You ended the relationship well, you faced up to the problems in it and you expressed yourself well. I'd be surprised if you weren't a bit pissed off by this, but it's no big deal in the grand scheme, right?

[ScienceGal]

I'd be surprised if you weren't a bit pissed off by this, but it's no big deal in the grand scheme, right?

 

I'm mostly crushed. I'm disappointed in him too, since he is quite intelligent yet still made this decision. Something told him the risk was too high, but he is wrong. I am no threat, and I've always loved more than I've been loved. That makes this harder to swallow. But it's not just about him, it's about me losing hope in men and myself. I doubt my ability to find someone great because I am still making excuses for men's behaviors towards me. I'm still thinking of ways to compromise in order to make it work. I'm still not putting myself first. I still want ex-new guy to call even though he's a train wreck. I will be in this situation again (and probably again and again) and I don't know how to prevent that.

 

I have no appetite, so all I consumed was a couple liters of water yesterday. I didn't leave my apartment other than to go rent movies. I texted the ex from high school (the inappropriate phone call I took) about my new findings. He thinks ex-new guy has insecurity and jealousy issues. He also tells me often to "stop dating douche bags". I think I did better this time though, ex new-guy isn't a douche bag. On my way out to rent movies my "inappropriate" neighbor asked what I was up to and where ex-new guy was. I explained it all, including the boundaries issue and that ex new-guy had a problem specifically with him. My sister (who neighbor is dating) was there too. They both hugged me and said that they think this doesn't make sense and wasn't the right decision on his part. No one thinks its right, but ex-new guy. I have trouble when I can't make sense of things.

 

I told him to bring the email he sent me to his therapist and see what she says. I hope he does. And there will be no more emails. I made it clear I didn't want any other forms of non-verbal communication, so if he wants to talk he needs to call me. He said that I could call him too, but I told him I wouldn't because I strongly disagree with the decision he is making; therefore, I'm not the one that needs to reach out to him. The phone got quiet and I cut it off by saying "So, you'll have to be the one to call me. I'm hanging up now, take care of yourself".

Edited December 4, 2011 by ScienceGal

[betterdeal]

On the up side you sensed something was wrong and confronted it. Had you not you'd still be in that uncomfortable limbo you were in, for months. It'd be a death by a thousand cuts. Instead you brought it up and you stood up for yourself.

 

Some compromise is necessary in a relationship, but you're showing more willing to draw a line and say "no further" or "enough" and that's to your benefit. Ultimately, most people have to try on a few different hats until they find one that fits.

 

Treat yourself to a good meal. You may be surprised how it improves your mood.

[dasein]

Have been where you are. Get out and take long walks, or whatever your choice of exercise, don't allow yourself to sit and fester in the house, no tv or movies, they just keep you on an emotional rollercoaster. Keep moving. Wear yourself out and try to combine something active with something that demands most of your attention. You should also get some insure or slimfast or some other supplement drink if you can't eat. Get some quality dark chocolate, drink green tea, get some protein bars. Don't drink any alcohol or take sleeping pills, or any pills that aren't prescribed for regular use. I found going to shopping malls was good, could keep walking and people watch and shop at the same time. No friends around so no temptation to hash and rehash the breakup. Do lots of stretching, it is miraculous in reducing stress and angst levels. Allow yourself three chances to discuss the breakup in any way with your friends, tell them this also. Once you have used up three strikes, don't burden that friend or family member with breakup talk any more. Hope this helps.

Edited December 4, 2011 by dasein

[ScienceGal]

Thanks guys.

 

I just ordered a couple books:

 

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/choosing-me-before-we-christine-arylo/1100396776

 

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/i-know-im-in-there-somewhere-helene-brenner/1100553060?ean=9781592400607&itm=1&usri=i+know+i%27m+in+there+somewhere

 

I'm also going to visit my doctor this week and get referred to a therapist. I recently turned 30 and I know that's a big part of my stress and anxiety surrounding relationships. I'm tired of being single, and it's not going to get any easier unless I figure out a better way to cope.

[choppedkittens]

ScienceGal,

 

I am surprised you are still interested in working things out with this guy.

 

I got a bad vibe from his email. He sounds selfish, controlling, and insincere. That email was all about him taking ownership of the breakup (ie I dumped you) and also shifting the blame to your "faults". Didn't you say that you ended things? Isn't it convenient then that he's now rewriting history so that he was the one to cut the cord?

 

Even assuming he's being honest in this email that he had already decided the relationship wasn't going anywhere, that implies he was being dishonest with you before and leading you on when he claimed he was just taking things slow.

Edited December 5, 2011 by choppedkittens

[moontiger]

ScienceGal,

 

I am surprised you are still interested in working things out with this guy.

 

I got a bad vibe from his email. He sounds selfish, controlling, and insincere. That email was all about him taking ownership of the breakup (ie I dumped you) and also shifting the blame to your "faults". Didn't you say that you ended things? Isn't it convenient then that he's now rewriting history so that he was the one to cut the cord?

 

Even assuming he's being honest in this email that he had already decided the relationship wasn't going anywhere, that implies he was being dishonest with you before and leading you on when he claimed he was just taking things slow.

 

What choppedkittens said (and then some). Flush this one, SG. He sounds breathtakingly self-absorbed, and full of himself.

 

I realize he had some good qualities--but everyone does. Whether somebody is a good guy for marriage is more fundamental than just whether he's able to go on at length about his feelings, or is someone you can laugh with.

 

A good guy for marriage is *not* a guy who forces you to dump him, and then hides behind his computer firing e-mail bombs telling you how much he thinks you suck in the name of "honesty."

 

Just my $0.02.

[ScienceGal]

Note: I am not defending him. But, he did say that the boundaries thing is his issue and that a lot of other people might not have an problem with it. He never suggested it is something wrong that I should change; in fact, he said I shouldn't change my behavior for him or anyone else.

 

He needs to realize that his "issue" with boundaries is really his insecurities and pain from previous failed relationships. He ackowledged this was a hard decision and he wasn't happy about it. I know he is proving to himself that he can walk away when he sees red flags, and this is something he hasn't done before. I get it, I just don't agree that what I have done is considered a red flag at all. Maybe time alone to reflect, or dating other people that fail to meet such standards, will make him see he threw a really good thing away, maybe not. Either way, I'm good. It's not in my control. He needs to make this connection on his own.

 

For your reading enjoyment, this was my response email. He found parts to be insulting and condescending (though contributed it to the fact it was non-verbally communicated). I didn't really care, I didn't intend it to be either of those, but I was floored by the fact he had the audacity to send his message, and I felt like I was talking to someone so emotionally scrambled that they needed it spelled out to them like a 5 year old would. (it's long, I was half asleep and without caffeine = mental avalanche

 

After reading it is when he called and we talked.

---

 

Dear Ex-new guy,

 

That was some message to wake up to. Relaying that sort of information had the effect of driving a stake into my heart just as I was lifting myself off the floor and trying to move on. I'm sitting here wondering how that could make you feel better. I'm wondering what benefit it serves to a "relationship" that was already over. I'm wondering if you thought about my feelings at all.

 

I've spent the past few nights thinking about you and reflecting on our time spent together. I re-ran our phone conversation through my mind at least a dozen times. I did come to the conclusion that you were not into me enough. I wasn't upset because it was my wants and needs that had changed. But now you're telling me that you did share my feelings (this is actually where the stake initially enters... not the the "two possibilities" part). I knew for probably a couple weeks before our talk that I was developing real feelings for you. I could see the trend in my feelings of happy/carefree drift down into worried/nervous. But I waited until I was certain before I decided to bring it up.

 

I wanted a relationship with you because beyond the physical attraction I came to value you as a person. I saw you were good and caring. I felt you were someone that I could be myself with. Someone that I could laugh and have fun with. I never got the impression that you would lie to me or hurt me. You too had behaviors that made me feel uneasy at times. But, unlike you, I accept that that speaks to my own insecurities and my past experiences. I made the decision that if we were to enter a relationship with you, that I would have to trust you and communicate with you always. If you did something that upset me, I'd tell you. But really, when you trust someone, there shouldn't be too much that is upsetting. That said, there certainly are behaviors that need to be changed when transitioning from being single, to being in a relationship. Noted.

 

If you really were developing feeling for me as you say, it seems you're trying to safeguard yourself from pain. The one thing about relationships is that even in the most loving one, you're still going to get hurt at times. Even with the sweetest most considerate woman, you're going to get hurt because no one is perfect. Even the greatest man is going to crush me at times too, I'm ready for it. But, these are all unintentional and easily resolved pains. It's just about finding someone worth the work and effort. Someone where the reward will be greater than the cost. Learning together and making choices to support one another by building each other up individually, and then hopefully together. Someone that is in it for not only their own needs, but for yours. I'm not sure how a couple select behaviors meant this woman definitely wasn't me, but I'm certainly not going to argue it. In reality, you placed the demands of a relationship on me, but referred to me as only a "date". I saw the disconnect, and that was why I wanted to push for a relationship or walk away. Where we were at wasn't working and I wanted it to be better than that, but that's not how our conversation ended on Monday. So, I let it go.

 

I do fundamentally feel different than you, but not in the way you described. I feel differently about what a relationship is and what it takes to form one. I clearly feel differently than you in terms of giving up on our pseudo relationship so soon. Caring for the person I am with is the number one priority in my life, second only to my family. You didn't get a chance to experience that. You have no idea what I am capable of in a partnership, yet it seems you decided based upon little information. I'm digressing. Point is, the mistake I made was trying to be too casual and keep feelings out of it. We were in a relationship, but didn't call it that. The only reason I see for that, is that if there is no relationship, there is no break up. No one gets hurt... right?

 

Closing note: We had the potential for a great relationship, at least on my end. I sincerely hope you find someone else that gives you everything you need and want. I honestly think you have some more healing and growing to do... but don't we all.

-SG

Edited December 5, 2011 by ScienceGal

[dasein]

OK, fine to order books and read, fine to write, but can't emphasize enough the getting active and letting endorphins help you part. Also, with long emails you are opening the door to painful further contact and further misunderstandings, more pain. When a warhead goes off in your backyard, get away from it, don't hang around and suntan in the radiation. Please consider strict NC for at least a month, no need to notify him of this. It will shorten your healing process immensely.

[ScienceGal]

OK, fine to order books and read, fine to write, but can't emphasize enough the getting active and letting endorphins help you part. Also, with long emails you are opening the door to painful further contact and further misunderstandings, more pain. When a warhead goes off in your backyard, get away from it, don't hang around and suntan in the radiation. Please consider strict NC for at least a month, no need to notify him of this. It will shorten your healing process immensely.

 

Hi dasein, that email was before he called saturday. That was our final talk. I have no desire to contact him, and I told him I wouldn't when he suggested I could call if I ever wanted.

 

I agree with everything you're saying. And, I go to the gym 3-4 times per week, which does help my mood a lot. I feel better today and am just still shaking my head as I continue to walk away.

[dasein]

Good for you, you will be fine in no time. Sorry misunderstood the last posted email as being recent.

[moontiger]

When a warhead goes off in your backyard, get away from it, don't hang around and suntan in the radiation.

 

Best quote ever.

 

And SG, based on what I know of you, I see you as a fit for somebody who is light and sunny and outgoing and happy, not the dark, brooding type who introspects and psychoanalyzes and obsesses about all the things that might possibly go wrong in a relationship before you are even in one. Basically somebody who balances you, not somebody who reinforces your own worry.

 

That was not this guy.

 

Search for that guy.