Cypress25 Posted November 27, 2011 Posted November 27, 2011 Notice that the women of LoveShack are completely silent on this topic. Which you can take to mean they either find it boring or it's way over their heads... or both. Excuse me, I am a woman and I was one of the first people to respond. Problem is, a lot of the guys ignore advice from women because it's not what they want to hear. I can't learn how to kiss on LS, I can't learn how to flirt or be physically comfortable around women on LS either. There is decent advice about how to kiss and flirt all over the Internet. Google it and you'll find plenty of articles. But no matter how much knowledge you have, the time will come for you to apply it in real life. As far as I can tell, your problem is simply that you're shy around women and you get easily discouraged. That's not a fatal flaw and it can be overcome. But it sounds like you're already convinced that women will never be interested in you. That's called learned helplessness. Check it out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learned_helplessness Do you have any female friends? That might help you become more comfortable around women. We're just people like you. If you take the focus off trying to impress women and focus instead on just being friendly and approachable, you might find that women aren't that hard to talk to after all. And I'd like to challenge the notion that you've never had women interested in you. For all you know, some shy girl in school was silently crushing on you for years, and you had no idea. Keep that possibility in mind, it might give you some confidence.
Author fortyninethousand322 Posted November 27, 2011 Author Posted November 27, 2011 Excuse me, I am a woman and I was one of the first people to respond. Problem is, a lot of the guys ignore advice from women because it's not what they want to hear. I do appreciate your help in this and other threads. I know I annoy people sometimes because I appear stubborn or bitter, or whatever, but I am trying to work my issues out. This is one of the few places I can go to get some non-biased, authentic advice. There is decent advice about how to kiss and flirt all over the Internet. Google it and you'll find plenty of articles. But no matter how much knowledge you have, the time will come for you to apply it in real life. As far as I can tell, your problem is simply that you're shy around women and you get easily discouraged. That's not a fatal flaw and it can be overcome. But it sounds like you're already convinced that women will never be interested in you. That's called learned helplessness. Check it out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learned_helplessness Do you have any female friends? That might help you become more comfortable around women. We're just people like you. If you take the focus off trying to impress women and focus instead on just being friendly and approachable, you might find that women aren't that hard to talk to after all. And I'd like to challenge the notion that you've never had women interested in you. For all you know, some shy girl in school was silently crushing on you for years, and you had no idea. Keep that possibility in mind, it might give you some confidence. I really have two female friends. One is my age but I never see her because she's really busy running her business and commuting back and forth to Maryland to see her boyfriend. The other is 40 and a former coworker and never gives me any real good advice aside from vague things like "put yourself out there". I have a hard time making female friends since I tend to place all of them into the "dating prospect zone" as soon as I get to know them.
betterdeal Posted November 27, 2011 Posted November 27, 2011 Go on holiday to Cancun and bone some party girls. They're there for meaningless sex, booze and parties. Go and make a complete idiot of yourself. You will kiss badly and cum quickly and fall asleep half way through and be sick on a girl and wake up in a prison cell and have to bribe your way out. And you'll go home, and leave it all behind, just taking a few hazy memories and a wry smile.
PlumPrincess Posted November 27, 2011 Posted November 27, 2011 I don't know, maybe I'm just frustrated and venting. But, if you really think that getting a job and my own place is going to instantly improve things then I'll put 110% effort into that and completely disregard dating and relationships and women until then. Yup, get a job and your own place. I'm more happy now and I do meet more guys.
Cypress25 Posted November 27, 2011 Posted November 27, 2011 Yup, get a job and your own place. I'm more happy now and I do meet more guys. Shouldn't you be trying to do this anyway? Regardless of whether it will help you get girls, now that you're done with college, getting a job should be your top priority. I realize the economy is bad right now, but you can't live at home forever. At least get a part-time job to get your foot in the door. Added bonus: once you get a job, you could meet women there too.
PlumPrincess Posted November 27, 2011 Posted November 27, 2011 Sad to say, but it does. I know from age 29-33 when I "boomeranged" back home to regroup and save up a down payment, most women wouldn't bother with me. Had one female friend bluntly tell me simply that women won't pick a guy living with his parents...even if he's got a career and is saving money...over all the other guys who currently own condos without roomates. It's harsh, but true. I even tried to point out how it seems ok for a woman to be living at home or even living in her boyfriend's place, but she simply pointed back that as long as men happily accept this, it will be a double standard. Meaning as long as men have no issue with a "not established" girl while women require men to be "established", then it will be a double standard. I'm sure even now, in this economy, a guy with a career who is employed and living on his own with no roommates will look more appealing to women than a guy living at home or with several others. We men tend to nitpick on weight, looks, and if she's got kids. Women nitpick on our looks, financial standing, etc. This is life. When I got my condo and rebuilt my confidence, women did notice. Trust me, a woman who shares a flat is also considered uncool...
Author fortyninethousand322 Posted November 27, 2011 Author Posted November 27, 2011 Shouldn't you be trying to do this anyway? Regardless of whether it will help you get girls, now that you're done with college, getting a job should be your top priority. I realize the economy is bad right now, but you can't live at home forever. At least get a part-time job to get your foot in the door. Added bonus: once you get a job, you could meet women there too. Yeah I've been applying, I'm not just lazily spending my days. Right now I'm working on another application as I speak. A few retail places (part time stuff) basically told me I was overqualified (i.e. I would leave as soon as something better came around, which is true). But, even if I get hired somewhere making 9 bucks an hour there's no way I could afford to live on my own making that much money. I guess I could try to work 2 or 3 jobs, but then, I wouldn't have any time to date anyway so what would be the point?
PlumPrincess Posted December 25, 2011 Posted December 25, 2011 Shad Helmstetter: What To Say When You Talk To Yourself Google it. It'll change your life for the better. The part I love most about it is that it works from a scientific viewpoint, with factual ways to change things you want about yourself and your life. It will also show you why getting advice such as 'improve your game, become more charming, be less bitter, etc.' is not enough, because your internal programming hasn't changed. The inner you has to change. I got the book and am reading it now. It's probably one of the best self-help books in my extensive collection. I've been partially doing on my own what he recommends in the book, but it's good to get a confirmation that it's a good method. I had to look for a job last year and this year and it's something I totally hate doing. But somehow I had moments of fun writing my CV. I got into online dating this year, because I was looking for dates and an opportunity to procrastinate. When writing my profile I tried to say only positive things about myself and it felt like I was giving myself a pep talk that actually worked.
Sanman Posted December 26, 2011 Posted December 26, 2011 Some may call my advice cynical (and it might be, but it works. I agree about getting your own place and a decent job. I would also tell you to just date women that are interested in you. Get some practice in dating, kissing, etc that way. It might seem like a mean thing to do to someone, but everyone does these things. Get comfortable with all that stuff and you will learn how to interact with women. It really is all a performance that you can get good at over time. I have found the same things work on most of the women I hit on. The truth is that the less ethical/moral I have been, the more success I had with women (and the more cynical I become). My current gf is the first one that really enjoyed a nice, sweet guy and it is a big reason I have held onto her.
ScreamingTrees Posted December 26, 2011 Posted December 26, 2011 (edited) And I'd like to challenge the notion that you've never had women interested in you. For all you know, some shy girl in school was silently crushing on you for years, and you had no idea. Keep that possibility in mind, it might give you some confidence. Why cling to wishful thinking? It's like thinking about the possibility of a god and an afterlife despite there being no such proof and no likelihood of anything occuring after you cease to exist. It doesn't do anything. How do we unlearn helplessness? What if I would rather be with one steady person that I have feelings for rather than have casual flings with women that I might not even be attracted to, simply to "gain experience" to be good enough for the "better" women? What kind of thinking is that? I don't want to use anyone, and I'd rather leave intimacy for people with whom I'd be comfortable being intimate with. Edited December 26, 2011 by ScreamingTrees
Sanman Posted December 27, 2011 Posted December 27, 2011 Why cling to wishful thinking? It's like thinking about the possibility of a god and an afterlife despite there being no such proof and no likelihood of anything occuring after you cease to exist. It doesn't do anything. How do we unlearn helplessness? What if I would rather be with one steady person that I have feelings for rather than have casual flings with women that I might not even be attracted to, simply to "gain experience" to be good enough for the "better" women? What kind of thinking is that? I don't want to use anyone, and I'd rather leave intimacy for people with whom I'd be comfortable being intimate with. That right there is your idealistic thinking. This the same as the kid coming out of college saying that he will not settle for anything less than his dream job and is willing to wait for that. That is your choice, but realize that you often have to work other jobs, get experience, and work up to your dream job. Waiting for your dream job to come along is fine, but it may never come along. Even if it does, you may not have the necessary experience to get it.
somedude81 Posted December 27, 2011 Posted December 27, 2011 Ugh, reading this thread is so frustrating. The advice is generic and completely useless. Work on your confidence, dress better, work out, get a job. Lets be honest here, none of the above actually matter, and confidence isn't something one can work on. My guess is that that 49 and just about every other guy who is doing bad with women is failing in one key area, they are not communicating effectively with women. Girls need a little something extra from guys to be able to shift out of seeing him just as a friend. Most guys just figure out how to do it by living their life. Some learn how to do it very well and become players. Other guys for some reason, don't learn how to really interact with women, and they stay single. Aside from dumb luck, I don't know an effective way for an older inexperienced guy to break out of his funk. One possible way, is to do a lot of research online, then just jump into the real world, try everything and prepare yourself for a crap load of rejections. Maybe he'll get lucky.
jobaba Posted December 27, 2011 Posted December 27, 2011 Ugh, reading this thread is so frustrating. The advice is generic and completely useless. Work on your confidence, dress better, work out, get a job. Lets be honest here, none of the above actually matter, and confidence isn't something one can work on. My guess is that that 49 and just about every other guy who is doing bad with women is failing in one key area, they are not communicating effectively with women. Girls need a little something extra from guys to be able to shift out of seeing him just as a friend. Most guys just figure out how to do it by living their life. Some learn how to do it very well and become players. Other guys for some reason, don't learn how to really interact with women, and they stay single. Aside from dumb luck, I don't know an effective way for an older inexperienced guy to break out of his funk. One possible way, is to do a lot of research online, then just jump into the real world, try everything and prepare yourself for a crap load of rejections. Maybe he'll get lucky. There's nothing wrong with your communication (assuming your real life persona is similar to your online persona). You have personally seen how picky women can be on these message boards. So, why do you think you can change something about yourself so that all of a sudden a crapload will like you? Yes, improving yourself will increase your odds with the ones who will give you a chance. But that is still going to be a small percentage. Confidence and numbers.
Author fortyninethousand322 Posted December 28, 2011 Author Posted December 28, 2011 Ugh, reading this thread is so frustrating. The advice is generic and completely useless. Work on your confidence, dress better, work out, get a job. Lets be honest here, none of the above actually matter, and confidence isn't something one can work on. My guess is that that 49 and just about every other guy who is doing bad with women is failing in one key area, they are not communicating effectively with women. Girls need a little something extra from guys to be able to shift out of seeing him just as a friend. Most guys just figure out how to do it by living their life. Some learn how to do it very well and become players. Other guys for some reason, don't learn how to really interact with women, and they stay single. Aside from dumb luck, I don't know an effective way for an older inexperienced guy to break out of his funk. One possible way, is to do a lot of research online, then just jump into the real world, try everything and prepare yourself for a crap load of rejections. Maybe he'll get lucky. Actually, yes. I think in large part you are correct. It is about communication and not all of it oral. Much of human interaction (if I remember right from freshman year communications class, the majority) is non-verbal communication. Guys like us are probably not communicating effectively, and because it's probably the non-verbal part we're getting wrong it's extremely difficult to fix. I wrote this is another thread, but I think a lot of the bitterness I have is because my outlook was somewhat naive. I honestly didn't think that lying and being a little manipulative was the path to success. I thought you could be a straight up good guy with not much mystery and find someone of equal quality. Turns out you can't.
Oxy Moronovich Posted December 28, 2011 Posted December 28, 2011 I wrote this is another thread, but I think a lot of the bitterness I have is because my outlook was somewhat naive. I honestly didn't think that lying and being a little manipulative was the path to success. I thought you could be a straight up good guy with not much mystery and find someone of equal quality. Turns out you can't. Finally someone gets it. I'd hate to think dudes are giving advice and no one is taking it. Women want men to make decisions for them. They wish to be dominated. Not treated as equal or put on a pedestal. Why do you think so many women complain about a dude being "too nice" or "not assertive enough"? I think there's a thread on the 1st or 2nd page with a woman complaining about how some dude didn't know where to take her out on a date and she found it a turn-off because he asked her to decide. And she never went on a 2nd date with him. A woman wants to be emotionally dependent on a man.
HughHardcastle Posted December 28, 2011 Posted December 28, 2011 I'm sure even now, in this economy, a guy with a career who is employed and living on his own with no roommates will look more appealing to women than a guy living at home or with several others. My 27 year old friend, who still lives at home, and has a cell phone full of half naked pictures of the stable of women he has, would like to disagree with this post.
SteveC80 Posted December 28, 2011 Posted December 28, 2011 Finally someone gets it. I'd hate to think dudes are giving advice and no one is taking it. Women want men to make decisions for them. They wish to be dominated. Not treated as equal or put on a pedestal. Why do you think so many women complain about a dude being "too nice" or "not assertive enough"? I think there's a thread on the 1st or 2nd page with a woman complaining about how some dude didn't know where to take her out on a date and she found it a turn-off because he asked her to decide. And she never went on a 2nd date with him. A woman wants to be emotionally dependent on a man. I agree women want to be dominated and told what to do by a Man The relationships where i treated the women like an equal and asked her input on even the smallest things like where to eat or what to do she lost attraction for me Women want a Man that's better then them
Mme. Chaucer Posted December 28, 2011 Posted December 28, 2011 I agree women want to be dominated and told what to do by a Man The relationships where i treated the women like an equal and asked her input on even the smallest things like where to eat or what to do she lost attraction for me Women want a Man that's better then them Is this your explanation for why you are single?
SteveC80 Posted December 28, 2011 Posted December 28, 2011 Is this your explanation for why you are single? So witty:rolleyes: im single by choice because my life is too busy now to devote time to one person But most women i know get turned off when a man doesnt make all the decisons
ScreamingTrees Posted December 28, 2011 Posted December 28, 2011 Waiting for your dream job to come along is fine, but it may never come along. Even if it does, you may not have the necessary experience to get it. Well, I understand that it's idealistic, but I guess it's just a damned if you do, damned if ou don't scenario.. Either desensitize yourself, or lose a good thing because you can't work a fishing pole.. I'm looking for someone like myself. I would never get rid of someone for something like that, and I realize I might never meet someone on a similar level who's mutually attracted to me. That's life. Can't change the world, but I can better myself for my own enjoyment. Besides, I think there's a difference between getting into a relationship you're not serious about just for "training", and a relationship with someone whom you're actually concerned about leaving a good impression on.
somedude81 Posted December 28, 2011 Posted December 28, 2011 There is more to it than being able to make decisions and plan things. I've been doing that for years, it's not enough.
PlumPrincess Posted December 28, 2011 Posted December 28, 2011 One more thing I'll add: I think trying online dating has been the worst decision of my life. Before I tried OLD, I was at least able to chalk up my lack of success to my inability to approach women in a flirty/romantic/whatever manner. I was friendly enough, but not anything more than that. But being on a dating site, messaging many women, reading their profiles and sending messages that reflected common interests and not just scatter shot approach of me being interested in their pictures and getting next to zero responses or any dates out of it has been extremely demoralizing. Especially when I read on here how many women have complaints about online dating. Maybe it's just bad luck or bad karma. Did I do something in a past life (or this life perhaps) that this is just payback for? Then it might be your picture. So far, I haven't seen anybody who was that ugly that I didn't even want to reply, but there were people who looked so weird and psycholike that I would ignore them. Sorry for being so blunt.
PlumPrincess Posted December 28, 2011 Posted December 28, 2011 There is more to it than being able to make decisions and plan things. I've been doing that for years, it's not enough. You know, I went and got the book. What did you do?
PlumPrincess Posted December 28, 2011 Posted December 28, 2011 One more thing I'll add: I think trying online dating has been the worst decision of my life. Before I tried OLD, I was at least able to chalk up my lack of success to my inability to approach women in a flirty/romantic/whatever manner. I was friendly enough, but not anything more than that. But being on a dating site, messaging many women, reading their profiles and sending messages that reflected common interests and not just scatter shot approach of me being interested in their pictures and getting next to zero responses or any dates out of it has been extremely demoralizing. Especially when I read on here how many women have complaints about online dating. Maybe it's just bad luck or bad karma. Did I do something in a past life (or this life perhaps) that this is just payback for? Sorry for my previous post. It sounds means, which I didn't intend. But seriously, maybe you should get a good guy friend check your pictures. I once got contacted by this guy who looked like a younger version of Rasputin (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grigori_Jefimowitsch_Rasputin). I didn't want to reply, but when I checked out his pictures, he had also included some without the beard and he actually looked like a nice guy.
somedude81 Posted December 28, 2011 Posted December 28, 2011 You know, I went and got the book. What did you do? Several years of therapy including CBT.
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