SomedayDig Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 I don't think you're out of line for asking anything and you are certainly NOT off base with your expectations. My WW has begun working on a "timeline" of events beginning with when her and the xOM met. This helps her work out all the details of things and it helps me because it's in black and white. I won't lie ~ it can be excruciating to read and I'm sure even for her to write. But in the end, it's what I need to begin to understand where she was at that time which helps me to heal which will help US to heal.
findingnemo Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 If you leave, HBF, you will lose a lot. You must have a plan. A plan to discover the truth about the A and a plan to figure out what she's doing right now. I like SomedayDig's idea. Tell her to write it down and when she's done and satisfied that she has put down the whole truth, she should email it to you. Insist on email. I say this because should you get a D in the further, that is as close a confession you'll get. While it has no bearing on child custody, it will serve as proof of her infidelity. What about now? What happened to the new OM? Did she stop texting? Get a private investigator to do some work for you. Get back in touch with your lawyer and find out what you would need to get physical custody. Or something better than 50/50 in your favor. Plan, plan, plan. Your W is a conflict avoider who has gotten away with it until now. If you keep pushing her, she could decide to leave again. She did it before. Also, she'll have her parents supporting her of course. So you need to seriously consider that your M right now looks more likely to end in D. Get another therapist. Not all of them know what they are doing. Sometimes you just have to try a couple before you find a good one. Also get IC for yourself so that you can figure out which of your actions are based on your fear of losing your child and which aren't. It helps to have someone force you to question why you do whatever it is you do.
Author HeartBrokeFool Posted May 2, 2012 Author Posted May 2, 2012 I am now realizing that I should've been more detailed in what went on in the 3 months since I last posted. I did ask that she sit down and write everything out from start to finish, the complete truth and nothing but. She was reluctant, but agreed. She started it, then never touched it for 2 or 3 weeks. I finally asked if she had any intention of completing it. She told me that she thought I would use it against her in court if we went through D. She told me she thought I just wanted it on paper so I could have "proof". I explained to her that she could keep it in her possession the entire time. I wanted it on paper because her story kept changing. She would make me feel like I was stupid and that I was making up things that she had told me. I wanted to sit down and read it with her right there. She worked on it a bit more over several days and stopped again. In the middle of her writing all this over several weeks is when she told me they had sex on more than one occassion. I finally told her its time to go through it. She went and got what she wrote and set down to read it to me. Before she started, I asked if the entire truth was written in the 15 page document. Her answer was yes. She read it to me and we discussed it. She did tell me she was going to eventually burn what she wrote. However, she stashed it under a furniture cushion right after we finished discussing it. A few days later, I had an evening appointment so I texted her and asked her if I could sit down and read what she had written when I got home. I had checked before I left home to see if what she had written was still hidden under the cushion and it was. When I got home I waited on her to mention something about it. Never did. We were preparing to go to bed. I had to take the dog out. I noticed she was more or less scrambling down the stairs behind me when I was headed out the door, so when i got outside i went and looked in the window. She went right to where the writing was hidden and grabbed it. I watched her stash it somewhere else. I walked in and she was looking at her phone with the most feigned surprise I have ever seen (was acting like she had just gotten my text at that moment). She never said a word. Just laid down in bed. I did as well. I laid there for a few minutes and asked her if she got my text. Said she had just gotten it when I walked upstairs. I asked if she still had what she had written. She said "NO, I burned it". I got out of bed and said, I'm going downstairs, if what you wrote is in the cabinet where I saw you stashing something, you can walk out the front door with no more than what you have on your back. She jumped up and started crying. She went and got it. I asked why she lied about not having it; no real answer. I read through it. She claimed that the whole truth was written, however the whole thing only talks about sex as a one day, one time thing. I asked her, if she swore to me that the entire truth had been written, why the other encounters were not in there. She had no answer other than getting really pissed off. The other OM referred to earlier still works with her at the same place. I watch the phone bill like a hawk, but that doesn't mean there couldn't be something going on via work email or face to face. I do believe she is "living straight" right now, but I thought so the first time... I've had PI work done and it didn't turn up anything out of the ordinairy. I have been in continued contact with the attorney. Greater than 50/50 custody wouldn't be hard. The first thing that would be filed is a restraining order to keep her parents away from my child. They are not "bad people", but are not mentally stable and have had major brushes of violence with friends, family, and the law. It would not surprise me if they tried to grab him and run. Her father is the one who threatened to kill me when I caught my W talking to the OM the second time.
Owl Posted May 2, 2012 Posted May 2, 2012 She's not going to be honest with you...ever. Serioiusly....she understands how important this is to you, how much it matters to you to get the truth...and she's still lying to your face. I'm not one of the "divorce the cheater this instant" crowd. Check my posts. But with that said...she's not going to come clean to you about this...ever. By the time she MIGHT come clean to you, your trust in her will be so completely shattered that you'd be a fool to believe anything she says at that point. The question is...what do you do about it?
Bryanp Posted May 3, 2012 Posted May 3, 2012 I feel sorry for you. It sounds like the poly is the way to go. You keep saying this must be the complete truth and it never is and the story continues to change. No consequences to her actions equals no motivation to change. She knows that every time she lies to you that you end up begging again to be told the truth again. Why should anything change if the dynamics of your relationship is always on the same path? She know that there are never any consequences to her lying. What is the old saying: the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Maybe you should think about this.
BetrayedH Posted May 3, 2012 Posted May 3, 2012 For what it's worth, I just wanted to say that I'm sorry for what you are giung through. My wife TT'd me as well and it made me crazy. Be careful. When I finally thought I had found all of the truth, I found more. I threw her ass out the front door and got arrested. She then became the "victim" and filed for divorce. Good luck to you.
findingnemo Posted May 3, 2012 Posted May 3, 2012 I am now realizing that I should've been more detailed in what went on in the 3 months since I last posted. I did ask that she sit down and write everything out from start to finish, the complete truth and nothing but. She was reluctant, but agreed. She started it, then never touched it for 2 or 3 weeks. I finally asked if she had any intention of completing it. She told me that she thought I would use it against her in court if we went through D. She told me she thought I just wanted it on paper so I could have "proof". I explained to her that she could keep it in her possession the entire time. I wanted it on paper because her story kept changing. She would make me feel like I was stupid and that I was making up things that she had told me. I wanted to sit down and read it with her right there. She worked on it a bit more over several days and stopped again. In the middle of her writing all this over several weeks is when she told me they had sex on more than one occassion. I finally told her its time to go through it. She went and got what she wrote and set down to read it to me. Before she started, I asked if the entire truth was written in the 15 page document. Her answer was yes. She read it to me and we discussed it. She did tell me she was going to eventually burn what she wrote. However, she stashed it under a furniture cushion right after we finished discussing it. A few days later, I had an evening appointment so I texted her and asked her if I could sit down and read what she had written when I got home. I had checked before I left home to see if what she had written was still hidden under the cushion and it was. When I got home I waited on her to mention something about it. Never did. We were preparing to go to bed. I had to take the dog out. I noticed she was more or less scrambling down the stairs behind me when I was headed out the door, so when i got outside i went and looked in the window. She went right to where the writing was hidden and grabbed it. I watched her stash it somewhere else. I walked in and she was looking at her phone with the most feigned surprise I have ever seen (was acting like she had just gotten my text at that moment). She never said a word. Just laid down in bed. I did as well. I laid there for a few minutes and asked her if she got my text. Said she had just gotten it when I walked upstairs. I asked if she still had what she had written. She said "NO, I burned it". I got out of bed and said, I'm going downstairs, if what you wrote is in the cabinet where I saw you stashing something, you can walk out the front door with no more than what you have on your back. She jumped up and started crying. She went and got it. I asked why she lied about not having it; no real answer. I read through it. She claimed that the whole truth was written, however the whole thing only talks about sex as a one day, one time thing. I asked her, if she swore to me that the entire truth had been written, why the other encounters were not in there. She had no answer other than getting really pissed off. The other OM referred to earlier still works with her at the same place. I watch the phone bill like a hawk, but that doesn't mean there couldn't be something going on via work email or face to face. I do believe she is "living straight" right now, but I thought so the first time... I've had PI work done and it didn't turn up anything out of the ordinairy. I have been in continued contact with the attorney. Greater than 50/50 custody wouldn't be hard. The first thing that would be filed is a restraining order to keep her parents away from my child. They are not "bad people", but are not mentally stable and have had major brushes of violence with friends, family, and the law. It would not surprise me if they tried to grab him and run. Her father is the one who threatened to kill me when I caught my W talking to the OM the second time. Thanks for clarifying. I can see you are way ahead, you've done a lot in the last 3 months. I don't like the polygraph idea. Not because it doesn't work but because you know she's lying, no need to prove it. Let me ask you, HBF, your W has shown you clearly that she has a lot to hide. That whatever happened is so bad that she won't risk you ever getting the whole truth. If she goes to any length to hide things - her written incomplete story, then even the proof of that story - what more do you need her to do after all this time? If she woke up today and told you the 100% truth, how would you feel about the cat and mouse games you've been playing all these months? What is your cut off point in all this?
2sunny Posted May 5, 2012 Posted May 5, 2012 She's not going to be honest with you...ever. Serioiusly....she understands how important this is to you, how much it matters to you to get the truth...and she's still lying to your face. I'm not one of the "divorce the cheater this instant" crowd. Check my posts. But with that said...she's not going to come clean to you about this...ever. By the time she MIGHT come clean to you, your trust in her will be so completely shattered that you'd be a fool to believe anything she says at that point. The question is...what do you do about it? You will never know her truth. She's not a woman that's worthy of your effort. She's still cheating and she lies. I'd D her as quickly as possible. She should have NEVER had the option to keep working with her OM.
bosunmate Posted May 6, 2012 Posted May 6, 2012 I actually disagree with you. I really think when I give her the ultimatum to come clean or deal with the big D, she will walk away; though not without taking as much as she can get... I hate to say this but maybe its time to let her walk and you move on. You deserve love and respect and she shows you neither, life is very fleeting dont waste it because you love her, she doesn't seem to feel the same. Find someone who will love you the way you deserve to be loved.
bosunmate Posted May 6, 2012 Posted May 6, 2012 I appreciate everyone's advice and you are all helping me move through this. I understand that it's easy to lump all of this into a general category of cheating and that everythings the same...I think all individual situations are different. It has helped me to hear your advice and read about other situations on this forum. The polygraph is a must and will be completed before I choose to stay in or leave the marriage. Its so hard for me to express the person I am to you all. It's easy for people to tell me to "man up" and move on. If I were offering advice to someone else, I would most likely tell them the same. I was an extremely confident, very trusting, and extremely loyal individual before all of this; very far away from what anyone would ever even call naive. I was one of the top people in my career field. I am still a very loyal person to anyone who earns it; my family, my job, my friends. This is why I am so shattered and broken. I knew spouses cheated on spouses. Its truly something that I never understood or understood how someone could do that to another human being. Now it happened to me and I feel like everything in the world I ever had confidence in or all that I thought was reality is in question and at this point don't believe i will ever get that back. Will divorcing my spouse change my outlook on life; no. I will still live the rest of my life wondering why, how, and if I could've only caught this sooner before it got so far. If I would've only come home from my trip the first night we argued on the phone while I was gone could I have stopped this. Will divorcing her make me feel better; no. I will still live knowing that she is with (or will end up with someone) else and that i still don't know the truth. Its a thought I can not bear. If I stay in my marriage, the feelings are still the same. I know my wife has not told me the entire truth. The entire truth will have to come out before I make my decision. It eats at me that she continues to withold information. I know she's damage controlling the situation to save herself. But I also know her well enough that I know she's witholding information because she doesn't want to see the pain it will cause me again. I have to admit my reaction to each bit of truth she has revealed has not been well. If I could go back and change how I reacted, I would. I believe she would've told me everything much sooner. I was not, am not, and never will be abusive. The reaction was of anger and hurt each time. I believe counseling will help her to realize that she has to let it all out and why; no matter how painful it is for her or me. I believe she's protecting herself, but also believes she's protecting me by not telling all. Trickle truth will kill you and your marriage( whats left of it) sorry this is happening:(
bosunmate Posted May 6, 2012 Posted May 6, 2012 id honestly say the best thing for both of us to do is learn from it, and let it go. I know its easier said than done, but ideally its the best thing you could do for yourself. I dont know how your social life is, but for me, Im from NJ, and thats where I met my wife. We moved to FL 10 years ago, and my problem is that Ive been socially isolated down here because I really just dont click with the people down here. When we visit NJ I feel free. I know that I could just leave her and be fine with other women, but when we're in FL I feel trapped. Im stuck here until I get my degree then get back on my feet financially before I can move back to NJ, which I def will. But until then I will make the best of it, because she really treats me well, and I need to think of the future. I have to do whats best for me.You should too. Let it go, but keep your eyes open for someone better, and if she comes along, dont pass her up. Maybe you'll end up a better man because if all this. I seriously wouldnt worry about it. My wife was the biggest hoe around. Im sure there are tons of guys I dont know about, but that just the way it is. If I didnt catch her RED HANDED, I would have figured she ****ed him, but forgot about it weeks later. What your wife did doesnt seem as bad in comparison. You are a cukold husband for sure. What kind of advice is it to say let it go but keep your eyes open for someone better. You are just as dishonest as your wife and you deserve each other. The worse advice i have ever heard...
bosunmate Posted May 6, 2012 Posted May 6, 2012 Well I haven't been on here for over 3 months now. Alot, but nothing has really happened. Wife confessed that she had already been sexually active with the OM a week before "the weekend" I was gone and started figuring things out. Actually gave me a story with some detail, but it still doesn't add up. Said that communication between them never stopped between '05 & '07. Now says "most" communication ceased in 2009. I'm really pissed. She told me again that now she has told me everything. As I said, her story still doesn't add up. We went to a marriage counselor. First appointment, I thought it was going to be really good. Since then, its been a waste of money. The marriage counselor doesn't try to make her accountable for anything. He just focuses on working on our marriage moving forward. I'm at my wits end. The one piece of advice that I took from the MC was to wait and evaluate my decision on whether or not to leave about 6 months down the road. At this point, I'm ready to go. I am sooo pissed at my wife for not telling the truth and catching her in lies right up to the present about the whole situation, even though she swore (like she has for 7 years) she told me everything. I've been VERY blunt with her that she needs to stop lying. Trickle truth is a love killer for sure....sorry things aren't improving.
Author HeartBrokeFool Posted May 16, 2012 Author Posted May 16, 2012 Thanks for clarifying. I can see you are way ahead, you've done a lot in the last 3 months. I don't like the polygraph idea. Not because it doesn't work but because you know she's lying, no need to prove it. Let me ask you, HBF, your W has shown you clearly that she has a lot to hide. That whatever happened is so bad that she won't risk you ever getting the whole truth. If she goes to any length to hide things - her written incomplete story, then even the proof of that story - what more do you need her to do after all this time? If she woke up today and told you the 100% truth, how would you feel about the cat and mouse games you've been playing all these months? What is your cut off point in all this? My cutoff on this is in July. The MC asked that I wait until 6 months out and "evaluate" the situation at that time before I make a final decision.
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