musemaj11 Posted November 25, 2011 Posted November 25, 2011 I was responding to another member long ago and it was stated as a suggestion (optional if he wants to) but I wouldn't mind paying my part too. Im just saying if you dont like it when you are held to a certain standard of conducts due to your gender, then you should not do the same thing to others either. Treat others the way you want to be treated.
dasein Posted November 25, 2011 Posted November 25, 2011 Anyone can groom themselves ... Nope. Women on this forum who "cheap call" and expect men to shoulder 100% of the financial burden of early dates, while accepting no accountability for taking a guy's money and then flaking at their option, are very fond of discounting male hygeine, grooming and clothing, and overplaying female hygeine, grooming and clothing. "He should pay because it costs me more to look good." Bullsh-t. Just because a woman spends $200 on a purse, $300 on a pair of shoes and $50-100 on nails that men couldn't care less about doesn't justify an expectation that he should pay because her appearance costs more. Moreover, you are skirting the point. Male effort in early dating isn't about paying, it's about sticking our necks out in approaching and suffering rejection until we get a phone number, sticking our necks out by calling and dealing with voicemail games women love to play, sticking our necks out and risking rejection when asking on a date, planning an interesting date, possible transportation time and expense (that you dated a guy without a car has nothing to do with the general expectation that men go to the woman and shoulder most transportation costs and responsibilities), grooming and clothing expectations at least as important to the process as female grooming and clothing, sticking our necks out and asking out for a second date in a world cram packed with women who knowingly and purposefully send out all kinds of confusing mixed signals. In other words, male effort in dating is not a mere function of the things he does specifically FOR you, such as paying, but effort put into the whole process. I added tickets as an example of one thing many women expect men to buy for them. Don't try to make a straw man of it.
the wizard Posted November 25, 2011 Posted November 25, 2011 Not if he were in a relationship/marriage. That statement is like saying men will cheat if given the chance because they can't help it. Men cheat in their relationships all the time. Often with women at work, I see it all the time at my job. Women in relationships to. Point I was making was, if a man didn't cheat, he fought VERY hard not to. The male sex drive is a bit quirky. It dies down with the same woman but is invigorated at the thought of multiple and different women, variety. Men like variety, that's why the girl he cheated with looks totally different than his SO. Its very tough to turn down a new and different prospect, extremely tough. I guess that's just the natural need to procreate instilled within us. For risk of people crucifying me, I'll admit that I do cheat on my girlfriend.
Woggle Posted November 25, 2011 Posted November 25, 2011 I just ask that a woman show accountability for her behavior and treat others the way she wants them to treat her. I think the same should be asked of men. Women do have a point that men to need show more sexual self control but women also need to show more emotional self control.
Negative Nancy Posted November 25, 2011 Posted November 25, 2011 An average woman can lay in bed and call random men from the phone book over to sex her if she wants. An average man cannot do this. Sick of women rationalizing and out and out lying about this plain fact here on LS. It's apparently -that- important today for women to have the "men do it too" lie to justify and escape all accountability for their whorish behavior despite the fact that they know full well men and women aren't the same where seeking and obtaining sex is concerned. pot...kettle. it's not our fault that you men are so easily swayed by us simply showing some skin and can't resist us and show some self-control...oh, wait... anyway, if women are expected to show "self-control" by limiting "whorish behavior", men should be expected to show "self-control" by not rewarding or encouraging that same behavior that you seemingly look down on.
Negative Nancy Posted November 25, 2011 Posted November 25, 2011 For risk of people crucifying me, I'll admit that I do cheat on my girlfriend. i'm sure you're cool with her cheating on you too then.
Author samsungxoxo Posted November 25, 2011 Author Posted November 25, 2011 In other words, male effort in dating is not a mere function of the things he does specifically FOR you, such as paying, but effort put into the whole process.So if I show up for a job interview well groomed but can't even answer simple questions, do nothing special in life, and I'm not at all convincing do I deserve that position? Nope. I can say to the interviewer ''But I live far away, it took me hours to get there and I'm dressed up nicely'' and he/she won't care. Same thing.. it's about what type of person you are then how you look like that counts slightly more. And the place doesn't have to be elegant (I can really careless about that) but average... not filthy obviously. I will help out too. Also good communication is a must. This means we can discuss about important topics such as religion, updated news, research, etc.. Obviously if it's a well-groomed man but all he has special is going to clubs every weekend, drinking lots of beers, talks about how his last relationship sucked and can't think of an ok place, obviously the date will sucked no matter how good looking his is.
Author samsungxoxo Posted November 25, 2011 Author Posted November 25, 2011 For risk of people crucifying me, I'll admit that I do cheat on my girlfriend.Poor girl I guess someday you'll grow out of it.... Yes I do mind the sex history too. I wouldn't wanna date someone that sleeps with every single skirt he sees or who has had sex with prostitutes.
dasein Posted November 25, 2011 Posted November 25, 2011 Obviously if it's a well-groomed man but all he has special is going to clubs every weekend, drinking lots of beers, talks about how his last relationship sucked and can't think of an ok place, obviously the date will sucked no matter how good looking his is. And that type would be improved in any way by him shelling out cash? Interesting.
dasein Posted November 25, 2011 Posted November 25, 2011 ...oh, wait... See that thing up in the air zooming right over your head? That's the point of this thread. This thread is about whether and under what circumstances men should show deference to women based on their being a lady. Ladies aren't sexually impulsive, and women who are sexually impulsive don't deserve any special treatment from men as a lady because they are no different than the average man.
Feelsgoodman Posted November 25, 2011 Posted November 25, 2011 To me, a lady is the polar opposite of the modern "liberated" female.
Author samsungxoxo Posted November 25, 2011 Author Posted November 25, 2011 And that type would be improved in any way by him shelling out cash? Interesting.You're getting personality and dedication too. What is soooo special about him in the first place? What does he dedicates? If I were a party animal and all trashy than I wouldn't mind but since I'm working my way to obtaining a University degree than obviously I'm not gonna go for less. Plus I'm a bit older than back then. I don't think the same as when I was 18 or 19 years old that I would say ''I don't mind, he can be a party animal, now I do''. For example: If a woman has higher education and is in the upper-class, she's never going to settle for a homeless or mediocre Mr Nobody. But she might go for a middle-class one that is working hard, has good personality and can talk about many aspects in life.
NordicStripes Posted November 25, 2011 Posted November 25, 2011 so much bs in one paragraph.... first off, no, women do not have greater control of their sexual behavior nor should they constantly be held to the "moral gatekeeper" standard cos THAT just gives men a free pass. that's pretty much saying "if a woman offers herself to me, i just can't help it, i just have to ffff her cos i'm a man". if women are expected to have self-control, so should men. self-control in a man to me is if he's able (and most of: willing) to walk away even if a playboy model would spread herself in front of him and offer herself to him. THAT is self-control. that is what a real man is about, not one that is indulging in every sexual whim. just like you guys don't want us to be emotional trainwrecks, we don't want you to be sexual trainwrecks that ffff anything that moves. so your "self-control" speech actually applies even more to men than to women, cos women are not as easily swayed by sex to begin with. basically it would be like us women saying "oh well, we know you men expect us to exercise self-control when indulging in sweets, cakes and candy for the sake of maintaining our figures, but we just can't help it. if a delicious piece of caking is laying there, we just gotta eat it. the food industry should be the moral gatekeeper and not offer it to us in the first place." you catch my drift....so be a friggin man and own your decision of wanting to bang that piece of ass instead of laying all responsibility and guilt on her by saying she should've been the "gatekeeper" as for the rest of your post, it easily applies to men as well. Very well said!!! I am so sick and tired of men's eternally lame excuse for behaving like utter pigs is 'that they are men ad that's just how they are'. I am not interested men who follow that kind of thought-pattern. How incredibly short-sighted, and plainly stupid, is that?
ThsAmericanLife Posted November 25, 2011 Posted November 25, 2011 first off, no, women do not have greater control of their sexual behavior nor should they constantly be held to the "moral gatekeeper" standard cos THAT just gives men a free pass. that's pretty much saying "if a woman offers herself to me, i just can't help it, i just have to ffff her cos i'm a man". if women are expected to have self-control, so should men. self-control in a man to me is if he's able (and most of: willing) to walk away even if a playboy model would spread herself in front of him and offer herself to him. THAT is self-control. that is what a real man is about, not one that is indulging in every sexual whim. just like you guys don't want us to be emotional trainwrecks, we don't want you to be sexual trainwrecks that ffff anything that moves. so your "self-control" speech actually applies even more to men than to women, cos women are not as easily swayed by sex to begin with. Good one... I refuse to date men who press me for sex on the first, second, or third date...or even longer... for all the reasons you mention. Ability to delay gratification is an important life skill, and I expect he demonstrate it with his own behavior towards me and the other women who may have come before me as well. That pretty much applies on all things to me. Any standards a man applies to me, he'd better apply to himself or no go.
Lurker1983 Posted November 25, 2011 Posted November 25, 2011 'm aware some guys are with the mentality ''I'll treat her like a lady if she acts like one, but once she stops that's it she's like another man to me''. The only man who said to me was someone on a dating site who was angry that I rejected him. Mind you, I politely said that we weren't a good match. I think most polite and respectful men would treat others the way how they want to be treated. The same thing for me as a woman. I try to be kind and nice to everyone. Once a person starts to cross the line (being mean, pushy, aggressive, or abusive), then I don't give them the same treatment that I would to everyone else. As far as being a lady is concerned, I think men do prefer someone feminine and soft. Being feminine and soft doesn't mean you have to be a passive doormat. It just means you're in a good mood, calm, serene, and graceful.
Author samsungxoxo Posted November 25, 2011 Author Posted November 25, 2011 I'm sure there are other women that demand too much (those that want jewels all the time or extensive places)... I don't ask too much but won't settle for the lowest of lowest either.
Ross MwcFan Posted November 25, 2011 Posted November 25, 2011 What instantly comes to mind when I think 'lady', is a woman who is posh, uptight, likes to wear ball gowns, and never swears. Not very attractive IMO.
Ross MwcFan Posted November 25, 2011 Posted November 25, 2011 Come to think of it, it sounds as though she'd be boring in bed too.
musemaj11 Posted November 26, 2011 Posted November 26, 2011 (edited) Woman A: "Why am I judged for being promiscuous just because Im a woman? This is the 21st century. I can't stand narrow minded guys." Woman B: "By the way, the guy I went on a date with last night won't pay for the date." Woman A: "OMG! He is such a loser. He isnt a real man. If I were you, I would never see him again."This is the typical train of thought of modern women. They want freedom for themselves but they cant comprehend why they should extend it to others as well. I dont understand why its so hard for women to understand that when you view yourself as a 'prize' to be bought or won over by men, as a consequence you have to accept that you will also be held to certain standards of value just like any other valuables. Edited November 26, 2011 by musemaj11
Feelsgoodman Posted November 26, 2011 Posted November 26, 2011 What instantly comes to mind when I think 'lady', is a woman who is posh, uptight, likes to wear ball gowns, and never swears. Not very attractive IMO. Don't know about "ball gowns", but the never swears part is certainly a plus in my book. On the hand, you are an American, so I understand why the idea of a woman who is not vulgar and has good manners is totally alien to you...
dasein Posted November 26, 2011 Posted November 26, 2011 On the hand, you are an American, so I understand why the idea of a woman who is not vulgar and has good manners is totally alien to you... You are right, it really is that bad here now. If you are "lucky" enough to go to a good school and college, the other side of the coin of "daddy's little rich girl" runs rampant. So on one hand you have a bunch of fake tan, potbellied, bad dyejob, liquored up screeching "whores gone wild" and on the other end, pearl necklace "daddy's moppet" turnip heads who actually f-ck more random dudes impulsively and spread more STDs than the trailer trash. There is nowhere to turn.
Lurker1983 Posted November 26, 2011 Posted November 26, 2011 I'm not an American either. however, go there often. There are millions of American women who are not vulgar and have good manners. in fact I'd say the majority. I don't know where this stereotype that American women are bossy and rude come from either. Most people are pretty friendly on the surface. It's just a part of being cordial. In relationships, maybe it's a different story.
Ruby Slippers Posted November 26, 2011 Posted November 26, 2011 I just wanted to take the test. You Are 80% Lady Overall, you are a refined lady with excellent manners. But you also know when to relax and not get too serious about etiquette.
Negative Nancy Posted November 26, 2011 Posted November 26, 2011 (edited) You Are 16% Lady You're a pretty crass, and even a bit crude on occasion. Manners don't matter to you, but they sure matter to those around you. I'm sure this result doesn't come as a surprise to anyone . Even though I gotta say that I do have manners - just not the ones in the quiz. They were pretty old-fashioned answers anyway. so i took the quiz about "what generation do you belong in". and, no surprise either, this result describes me alot better and explains why I failed the lady test : You Belong in Generation X You fit in best with people born between 1961 and 1981 (I was born in 1982 so it kinda fits ) . You are fun, laid back, and very independent. You are willing to take risks and live your life however you see fit. You are casual, accepting, and friendly. You see everyone as your equal. Edited November 26, 2011 by Negative Nancy
Ross MwcFan Posted November 26, 2011 Posted November 26, 2011 Don't know about "ball gowns", but the never swears part is certainly a plus in my book. On the hand, you are an American, so I understand why the idea of a woman who is not vulgar and has good manners is totally alien to you... I'm actually British. I wouldn't class a woman who swears as vulgar, I don't think most other people do either.
Recommended Posts