xxoo Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 You trust on someones intelligence to judge a situation and you accept it, even if it will not always go the way you want. I agree that you need to be able to trust your partner to make good decisions, without a chaperone or calling for guidance. I disagree that you need to accept their choices when they let you down with terrible judgment.
Oxy Moronovich Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 I agree that you need to be able to trust your partner to make good decisions, without a chaperone or calling for guidance. I disagree that you need to accept their choices when they let you down with terrible judgment. I think it's wrong not to blame the OP. She knowingly let her man go to a stripclub in Vegas. Anything that happen is her fault. What positive things could come out of letting your significant other go to a stripclub?
Negative Nancy Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 this whole discussion is the reason why a stripclub would never be an acceptable form of "entertainment" () to me. if my bf ever expressed the desire to go to one, i'd give him his walking papers.
Disenchantedly Yours Posted December 2, 2011 Posted December 2, 2011 Imageiko Is this practical in real life when you're out drinking absolutely not. There is no doubt op's finance got carried away while drinking and bears some responsibility for that. They both have a responsibility to communicate to each other and in this case they weren't on the same page. I don't really consider this a case of them not being on the same page. I don't know a man that thinks that private lap dances for them and their friends is really a cool thing to do in a relationship. And we really don't have a clear picture in the matter how he told her. Did he just mention like "oh guess what happened babe" or was it more of "I got a private dance with a stripper and I feel like maybe I shouldn't have". Because the first one would indicate just a cluelessness but the second indicates he knew what he was doing and he knew what he was doing wasn't fair to his relationship. So while I can't completely say that he knew what he was doing was wrong, neither can you claim it was a simple miscommunication or lack of communicatoin. We simply don't know that on either end. As for drinking, that is also a repsonibility that you either handle well or not. If a couple agree that it's okay to put yourself in a sexual environment with members of the opposite sex, it's the person who is going into that situation responsibility to think about the choices they are making while in that situation. All across the board - including the drinking that may be happening or the sexual titilation that is happening. It's not really fair to the woman who orginally posted the questions to say "well he was drinking.." giving him a free pass or only *half* the responsiblity when he is actually the one fully responsible for the choices he has made. Can't say I disagree here, unfortunately a lot of guys secretly want a mother instead of a girlfriend/wife. You really think so???
Disenchantedly Yours Posted December 2, 2011 Posted December 2, 2011 Jynxx: Typed out a huge reply, but the site disconnected, I lost it and don't feel like doing it all again. In short: I hate when that happens. You're absolutely right. Every man who asks his girlfriend if she has a problem he goes to a stripclub at his buddies bachelor party and gets an OK from her should know the normal boundries of the relationship don't count once inside a club, and they should go out, call her and ask for permission for everything they do. That's why at night you see the streets before a stripclub entrance crowded with men on the phone with their girlfriend, explaining her a stripper suggested he could buy her a drink and if he was allowed to do so, or explaining a stripper suggested a lapdance and asking how he should react to that. Well why not Jynxx? If we are going to make the argument that a lack of open communication was the issue here, and not this man’s behavior, if we are going to hold the OP responsible for not predicting the future or predicting every possible situation a man can get into while in a strip joint, then why shouldn’t he have called her and said “Hey babe, this is the situation, you okay with this?” What would be so bad about that? In all seriousness. In all seriousness, and I've told you this a couple times before, you can't have it both ways. You can't say she shouldn't clarify rules because he's an adult and he should make his own decisions, then expect him to call her and ask if he's allowed to do something if he's not completely sure. You trust on someones intelligence to judge a situation and you accept it, even if it will not always go the way you want. Please, what man thinks that getting private lap dances with naked - nearly naked beautiful women for him and his friend is a sound choice? You are the one that wants it both ways Jynxx, you want to hold the OP accountable for not being able to think of every situation her boyfriend could get into by going and holding her responsible for not being there to hold his hand to make choices. Lets be honest. He wanted a stripper to rub up on him because that was what was primarily important to him at the time. Not his relationship and not his girlfriend. At the time, it was more important to garner pleasure from a woman in a sexual situatoin that wasn't his gf then it was to think about his relationship and the woman at home waiting for him. Men that consider their relationships a priority don’t pay other women to grind and rub on them in private rooms. Once again, if I had to hold my boyfriend accountable for every situation I got into that came to a choice about other men vs my relationship with him, and held him accountable for not dictating every possible situation I could get into with other men, that would be absolutely ludicrous. OP thinks otherwise. Obviously you judge OPs boyfriend as a cheater, but that is moot because to OP it wasn't cheating. Actually you got it wrong. What I said that *I* personally think going to strip joints is a form of cheating. Lets be honest, it is. It’s a easy out for men to be sexual with other women while claiming they care about their partners. HOWEVEr, I do not think that means that the OP’s boyfriend is a cheater if SHE doesn’t consider it cheating. That’s just what *I* personally think. But if the OP doesn’t think it was cheating in her relationship then it isn’t. I hope you understand the difference. However again, we really don’t know if the OP considers it cheating or not. Since private lap dances could be cheating to her. But even if it isn’t cheating, it clearly is still hurtful behavior. Why would a man want to do that to his partner if he truly cared about their partner and cared about not ruining the relationship they have at home for strippers? People tend to have a life outside of their relationship. Is windowshopping with your girlfriends good for your relationship? Is your partner the first thing you think off when doing that? Is getting drunk at your friends place when watching the game good for your relationship? Probably not, but a relationship is a small part of your life, and while you should avoid doing things, it's important to have a life on your own. A life outside your relationships is completely different from engaging in sexual behavior with other people. A night out with the guys at a sports bar or playing golf is one thing. An interest in monster trucks is different then a night out at a strip club. A day spent going to the zoo with friends is different from a night out getting private lap dances from strippers. I think you are smart enough to understand the logistics of that. At least getting drunk at your friends place by watching the game is more innocent then going to strip clubs, getting drunk and getting private lap dances or oggling strippers and lusting after them while your partner is at home. Watching the game with your guy friends, at their place and drinking doesn’t equate to seeking out other women for sexual entertainment. My ex paid 200 EUR for a pair of shoes. My ex wasted 200 EUR at a pair of shoes. I ordered a 50 EUR bottle of whine in a restaurant. I wasted 50 EUR at a bottle of whine at a restaurant. OPs fiance wasted alot of money on strippers. Let's just say he spent quite a lot of money and leave the judgementalisme out of it, shall we? Again, the money he spent on strippers was a concern of hers. Go back and read the original OP. She mentioned the money he wasted on other women. Do you think it feels good for the woman who is in a committed relationship with a man that spends money for sexual attention from other women? Do you not see the difference between that and buying an asexual object? While money is always an important factor in a relationship and if someone regularly wastes money on non-needed items it certainly can be a problem. I think you see why it is hurtful when men in relationships seek out attention and sexual entertainment from other women and are willing to pay for it while they have a woman at home. Or no, you don’t understand the difference?
Jynxx Posted December 2, 2011 Posted December 2, 2011 Well why not Jynxx? If we are going to make the argument that a lack of open communication was the issue here, and not this man’s behavior, if we are going to hold the OP responsible for not predicting the future or predicting every possible situation a man can get into while in a strip joint, then why shouldn’t he have called her and said “Hey babe, this is the situation, you okay with this?” What would be so bad about that? In all seriousness. WEll, for one, he's not a 2year old and he should be able to make that decision himself. Also, if the gf said she didn't make a problem of him going to a stripclub in the fist place, don't you think it would be retarded to call her and ask if he's allowed to order drinks there? Or buy a girl a drink when she asks? Or have a girl sit on his knee? Or have a lapdance? Or have a lapdance in the back? That's 5 middle of the night phonecalls in a noisy club with his buddy making fun of him for being a doormat, and he's right for doing so. Now you would obviously say he shouldn't call for the first 3, only for the others. But then the obvious question is, how do you know what exactly you should call for and what you can decide for yourself. Please, what man thinks that getting private lap dances with naked - nearly naked beautiful women for him and his friend is a sound choice? FFS, his buddy is getting married the next day, how many times do you think that's gonna happen? Isn't it logical they want to do something that they'll remember for a long time? You really would prefer them going to a monster truck rally or to the zoo or being at home with their gfs? It's his "last night of freedom", if one of my buddies tried taking me to the zoo on mine I'd seriously regret the kind of friends I made in my life. You are the one that wants it both ways Jynxx, you want to hold the OP accountable for not being able to think of every situation her boyfriend could get into by going and holding her responsible for not being there to hold his hand to make choices. You keep throwing that word around and putting it in my mouth, which means you don't or don't want to understand what I've been saying in every post I put in this thread. To put it simple: You say there was a moral crime, OPs BF is at fault and thus accountable for the crime. I say there is no crime, thus nobody in the relationship is at fault for committing it. Again, the money he spent on strippers was a concern of hers. Go back and read the original OP. She mentioned the money he wasted on other women. I'm aware. I was pointing out that alot of things people do seem like wasting money to other people. The fact OP said he wasted money implies in her eyes it's a waste, not that it objectively is a waste, as I'm not even sure there is a thing like that. Do you think it feels good for the woman who is in a committed relationship with a man that spends money for sexual attention from other women? Do you not see the difference between that and buying an asexual object? While money is always an important factor in a relationship and if someone regularly wastes money on non-needed items it certainly can be a problem. I think you see why it is hurtful when men in relationships seek out attention and sexual entertainment from other women and are willing to pay for it while they have a woman at home. Or no, you don’t understand the difference? Do you realise if someone read that paragraph without the rest of the thread he would think you were talking about visiting prostitutes? Just shows how much you're blowing this out of proportion. Actually you got it wrong. What I said that *I* personally think going to strip joints is a form of cheating. Lets be honest, it is. Sums up your way of thinking perfectly. Going to stripclubs is cheating, because, well, it is. And I think it is, because it is. So he shouldn't get a lapdance, because visiting a stripclub when allowed is maybe not cheating, but everything more definetely is cheating.
xxoo Posted December 3, 2011 Posted December 3, 2011 FFS, his buddy is getting married the next day, how many times do you think that's gonna happen? Isn't it logical they want to do something that they'll remember for a long time? You really would prefer them going to a monster truck rally or to the zoo or being at home with their gfs? It's his "last night of freedom", if one of my buddies tried taking me to the zoo on mine I'd seriously regret the kind of friends I made in my life. Curious....how old are you? After about the mid to late 20s, the strip joint bachelor party thing stopped happening in our peer group, even though guys were still getting married. And if you think of it as your "last night of freedom", maybe marriage isn't for you.
Disenchantedly Yours Posted December 3, 2011 Posted December 3, 2011 WEll, for one, he's not a 2year old and he should be able to make that decision himself. I totally agree. That is what I have been saying the whole time. That he isn’t a child. That grown men should be able to make choices for the well being of themselves and the relationships they care about if they want to keep them. It comes down to what a man’s priorities are. His actions will reflect his priorities. It’s really simple. Also, if the gf said she didn't make a problem of him going to a stripclub in the fist place, don't you think it would be retarded to call her and ask if he's allowed to order drinks there? Or buy a girl a drink when she asks? Or have a girl sit on his knee? Or have a lapdance? Or have a lapdance in the back? You earlier stated the issue was lack of open communication. If the issue is lack of open communication, open communication requires talking to your partner when you encounter situations you aren’t sure of. No man or woman is ever going to be able to predict all the situations they run into that could be to the detriment of their relationship. Which is why couples break up. They encountered something they never predicted. What matters is how each person acts in those times. That's 5 middle of the night phonecalls in a noisy club with his buddy making fun of him for being a doormat, and he's right for doing so. Now you would obviously say he shouldn't call for the first 3, only for the others. But then the obvious question is, how do you know what exactly you should call for and what you can decide for yourself. You’re right. We wouldn’t want a man to loose face infront of his friends. Better he do something that will potentially hurt his relationship with his romantic partner instead of looking like the kind of boyfriend that cares about his partner. He can look like the kind of boyfriend that will happily pay other women for sexual entertainment and titillation. That’s a much better man then the one that thinks about his woman at home. Again it comes down to priorities. If a man is still falling prey to peer pressure then we know where his priorities lie. FFS, his buddy is getting married the next day, how many times do you think that's gonna happen? Isn't it logical they want to do something that they'll remember for a long time? Men make justifications to go to strip joints every time they get married. I suspect it doesn’t stop there. I suspect once they are married, plenty of men still make a justification to go or completely hide it from the woman they claim they love. But does it really matter how often it happens? What do you think it says to a woman when a man in a relationship with her happily chooses to spend money and time being in a sexual environment with beautiful, young, nearly or completely naked women? That’s an honest question. What do you think that says to a woman in relationship with a man? You really would prefer them going to a monster truck rally or to the zoo or being at home with their gfs? It's his "last night of freedom", if one of my buddies tried taking me to the zoo on mine I'd seriously regret the kind of friends I made in my life. LOL, well maybe not the zoo. But my example was to show the different between something like strip clubs and asexual places like monster truck rallies or zoos. Personally I think men should totally have their guy weekend or trips. But I am much more a fan of when men go to play golf for a weekend or go camping. Where they do very much guy things without having to involve other women sexually as part of their entertainment. That’s not really that big of a request is it? Men can remember doing other awesome things together that don’t involve other women yes? To put it simple: You say there was a moral crime, OPs BF is at fault and thus accountable for the crime. I say there is no crime, thus nobody in the relationship is at fault for committing it. I think when one partner hurts another with their actions that the relationship is in trouble. I think when one partner thinks about their own needs over the other that the relationship is in trouble. I think when one partner is given an inch but takes a mile, that the relationship is in trouble. I think the OP’s BF is completely accountable for his own actions. Yes. I think the OP’s BF didn’t think about his girlfriend when another woman was giving him a lap dance in a private room for both him and his friend. I think he was happy to get a free pass to be sexual with another woman even if he was paying for it in favor of considering the impact it would have on his relationship. That’s what I think. I'm aware. I was pointing out that alot of things people do seem like wasting money to other people. The fact OP said he wasted money implies in her eyes it's a waste, not that it objectively is a waste, as I'm not even sure there is a thing like that. Yes, as I agreed, money is an issue among couples and sex and money tend to be the two biggest issues. Again, how do you think a woman should feel knowing her boyfriend/fiance spent money on another woman for her to sexually titillate him? What value is there in money spent like that? Even for the man? But certainly for a man in a committed relationship? Do you think tht makes his female partner feel happy? Good? Do you think that makes her see him as a good man? Or perhaps a man she can't quite trust? Do you realise if someone read that paragraph without the rest of the thread he would think you were talking about visiting prostitutes? Just shows how much you're blowing this out of proportion. I guess if you find strip clubs important to manhood, you might think that. Do men who go to strip clubs and get dances not pay for sexual attention from women? Yes or no. I see that you completely ignored answer the question and instead decided to attack it. IT’s quite simple though. Strip clubs are sexual environments. Which is why men like them. They certainly aren’t sweet little innocent guy night out deals. Do the strippers not give sexual attention to men? I think the answer is clear and I think you’re smart enough to see that. Sums up your way of thinking perfectly. Going to stripclubs is cheating, because, well, it is. And I think it is, because it is. So he shouldn't get a lapdance, because visiting a stripclub when allowed is maybe not cheating, but everything more definetely is cheating Going to strip clubs is cheating to me, for my relationships because I think that men that are in happy committed relationships should be committed completely. And strip clubs are the opposite of a committed relationship. And a man going to a strip club while im a committed relationship is not about commitment but about him having his cake and eating it too. HOWEVER, I will repeat once again, if the OP doesn’t see it that way, then it’s NOT cheating TO her. We are both allowed to think that way. Everyone has different ideas about what cheating is. Regardless if it is cheating or not, clearly the OP was still hurt. You talked earlier before about the man being made into a doormat for considering his female partner in the relationship while interacting with other women. It seems to me that the OP’s boyfriend was more then happy to make *her* the doormat and the fool. The good little girlfriend sitting at home while he got private lap dances from other women. And I do think men that are in committed relationships that go to strip clubs are making fools of their own female partners. They are humilating them for a few hours with women that probably normally wouldn’t let him near her in real life. And why? So that he can have the fantasy of sexuality from them? In my opinion, he is turning his partner into the doormat. If a man wants to be single and enjoy strip clubs, that’s what he should do. Then there is no issue. He can enjoy all the strip clubs he wants. It's a win for him. If a man wants a girlfriend or wife, then he needs to consider how his actions affect her. And sometimes he needs to forgo his own personal pleasure to do what's best for the relationship. And when he can't do that, he shouldn't expect his partner to come runnning to him with open arms seeing him as a good man when she feels hurt and desrespected.
Jynxx Posted December 3, 2011 Posted December 3, 2011 I totally agree. That is what I have been saying the whole time. That he isn’t a child. That grown men should be able to make choices for the well being of themselves and the relationships they care about if they want to keep them. So which one is it? He should have called her 5 times or he should have made his own choice? Make up your mind and answer the question. You earlier stated the issue was lack of open communication. If the issue is lack of open communication, open communication requires talking to your partner when you encounter situations you aren’t sure of. No man or woman is ever going to be able to predict all the situations they run into that could be to the detriment of their relationship. Which is why couples break up. They encountered something they never predicted. What matters is how each person acts in those times. Not really. The guy made a choice his gf assumed he wouldn't make. That happens in a relationship. If she wanted to make sure he knew she didn't like one of the options, she should have told him in advance. But as it is now, it's a bump in the road as they both misjudged each other. Men make justifications to go to strip joints every time they get married. I suspect it doesn’t stop there. I suspect once they are married, plenty of men still make a justification to go or completely hide it from the woman they claim they love. She specifically told him she didn't mind him going to a stripclub! How on earth can you blame someone for what you perceive as moral wrongdoing if his partner agreed to it? And how can you keep doing it post after post in every paragraph attacking a different point I'm trying to make? But does it really matter how often it happens? What do you think it says to a woman when a man in a relationship with her happily chooses to spend money and time being in a sexual environment with beautiful, young, nearly or completely naked women? That’s an honest question. What do you think that says to a woman in relationship with a man? Nothing at all. What does it say when a woman prefers going shopping with her girlfriends instead of spending time with her bf? Again, how do you think a woman should feel knowing her boyfriend/fiance spent money on another woman for her to sexually titillate him? No better or worse than if it was free. IT’s quite simple though. Strip clubs are sexual environments. Which is why men like them. They certainly aren’t sweet little innocent guy night out deals. Do the strippers not give sexual attention to men? NO, you are wrong. Strippers will sit on a customers lap, make some suggestive moves during a lapdance and try to make the customer spend as much money as possible. There's no sex going on for the huge huuuuge majority of people, therefor if a stripclub is a sexual environment then so is the elevator in an office. You talked earlier before about the man being made into a doormat for considering his female partner in the relationship while interacting with other women. I didn't. When I go to a stripclub with friends there's occasionally someone who says to a stripper he has a girlfriend and doesn't want a lapdance. He can count on getting ripped on for a bit, but that's all in good fun and he's not a doormat. If that same guy took his cellphone, called his girlfriend and asked permission, he would be a doormat. The first guy makes his own choices, and that's healthy and mature. The second one doesn't. See the difference? It seems to me that the OP’s boyfriend was more then happy to make *her* the doormat and the fool. The good little girlfriend sitting at home while he got private lap dances from other women. And I do think men that are in committed relationships that go to strip clubs are making fools of their own female partners. They are humilating them for a few hours with women that probably normally wouldn’t let him near her in real life. And why? So that he can have the fantasy of sexuality from them? In my opinion, he is turning his partner into the doormat. If a man wants to be single and enjoy strip clubs, that’s what he should do. Then there is no issue. Alternatively, he can find a girlfriend who doesn't mind. Agree?
Disenchantedly Yours Posted December 3, 2011 Posted December 3, 2011 So which one is it? He should have called her 5 times or he should have made his own choice? Make up your mind and answer the question. I answered the question several times already. Go back and read my posts and you will have the answer to this. You’re being childish and you’re the one that made up the “call her 5 times” thing. You just want to make the guy in the situations completely unaccountable. It comes down to a person’s priorities. We clearly see what the OP’s boyfriends priorities were. Men who want to go to strip clubs while having a partner, we see their priorities. It isn't their partner. Not really. The guy made a choice his gf assumed he wouldn't make. That happens in a relationship. If she wanted to make sure he knew she didn't like one of the options, she should have told him in advance. But as it is now, it's a bump in the road as they both misjudged each other. This goes back to accountability. Again, I ‘ve said this over and over. There is no man or woman on this earth then can predict every situation that their partner will encounter and should be held responsible for the choices that partner makes that is either good for the relationship or bad. He made a choice that was good for him but bad for his relationship. His priorities were to have fun with a stripper over thinking about his relationship. Simple. This isn’t a simple case of “oh they got their wires crossed”. I sincerely don’t believe most men don’t understand that their actions in strip clubs, even when their girlfriends are kind enough to agree with them going, don’t understand that their actions can hurt their relationships depending on how they decide to act within the strip club. Lets be honest. He was given and inch and he took a mile. They agreed that him going to the strip club was okay and he took advantage of it and abused it. And you know am right. She specifically told him she didn't mind him going to a stripclub! How on earth can you blame someone for what you perceive as moral wrongdoing if his partner agreed to it? And how can you keep doing it post after post in every paragraph attacking a different point I'm trying to make? Yeah, lets not hold the man accountable for everything. Gosh, he’s not a grown adult man that can’t be held accountable for his actions. After all, his own partner said it was alright to go to a strip club. That means anything he does inside that strip club should be okay! Give me a break Jynxx. Do you really believe men to be that stupid and handicapped? Most men are able to understand that just because their partner is okay with them going to a strip club, that doesn’t mean that everything under the sun within that strip club is going to be okay. That is why he needs to be responsible for himself. That’s why he needs to think about his actions and what is or isn’t good for his relationship. That is if he cares about his relationship. It comes down to priorities. What is a man’s priorities? His partner or strippers? Millions of men in strip clubs with partners are everyday making that choice and I bet it’s not a kind or nice one toward their partners. They agreed that he could go to the strip club and he took advantage of it and abused it and humilated her in the process. Because instead of him standing up for respecting his partner, him and all his buddies (heck who probably had partners too) instead go to laugh, and drink, and have a great old time getting sexual attention from other women. But it’s okay to humilate a woman in relationship with a man. Just make sure that he saves face with his friends first. That’s what really matters right? Nothing at all. What does it say when a woman prefers going shopping with her girlfriends instead of spending time with her bf? Love how you pick a completely asexual event to compare it to a sexual one like men going to oggle and grind and enjoy young naked women vs shopping. Yeah, that’s fair. Wow. Be honest with yourself for a change. A trip to the strip club is nothing like a woman going shopping. A woman going shopping would be like a man playing golf or going to a sporting event. Not a man going to grind and get off on other women. No better or worse than if it was free. Nice way to not answer the question. Do you really think it feels good for a woman that loves a man and is in a relationship with him that he wants to go off and enjoy other women? You can’t even be honest and think about the position a man places his partner in when he wants to go and look at other women or pay other women to sexually titillate him. But I think you know inside yourself that it’s not the nicest way to treat a woman that loves a man. But why care about that when you can step on your own girlfriends head to get the strippers. NO, you are wrong. Strippers will sit on a customers lap, make some suggestive moves during a lapdance and try to make the customer spend as much money as possible. There's no sex going on for the huge huuuuge majority of people, therefor if a stripclub is a sexual environment then so is the elevator in an office. Do men not like beautiful women? Do men not consider the female form beautiful and sexual? Do men not get excited when a beautiful women is dancing on them and flirting and saying suggestive things? Are women in strip clubs not dressed very sexually, if they are dressed at all? Are lap dances and private dances and a whole host of other things that happen in strip clubs not done for reasons other then sexual entertainment? Goodness, you are extremely ridiculous that now your trying to claim that strip clubs aren’t sexual environments. I just have to shake my head on this one because it’s a really thick comment for you to act like they aren’t places motiviated by sexual titillation. Yikes. I didn't. When I go to a stripclub with friends there's occasionally someone who says to a stripper he has a girlfriend and doesn't want a lapdance. He can count on getting ripped on for a bit, but that's all in good fun and he's not a doormat. If that same guy took his cellphone, called his girlfriend and asked permission, he would be a doormat. The first guy makes his own choices, and that's healthy and mature. The second one doesn't. See the difference? Well I don't think there is anything healthy about men in relationships even going to strip joints to begin with. LOL. I'm curious though, how old are you and how often do you go to strip clubs and do all your friends girlfriends know about you going? So lets see, your friend rip into the guy that actually considers his girlfriend and doesn’t get a lap dance because why should women be given respect right? I mean, why do you and your friends even have girlfriends? Just go to strip clubs and enjoy yourself. Why drag a woman down that loves you? Why attach more importance to save face infront of your friends then be the kind of man your girlfriend needs you to be? The kind of man that offers her something worthwhile rather then the kind of man that just wants to take advantage of her love for him and play with other women from time to time? What I see are men who want everything they can get from having a girlfriend, taking what they can from her, while sometimes going off and enjoying what they can take from other women too. Getting lap dances and taking advantage of their girlfriends so they can garner some pleasure from other women. What I see are men who care more about their own pleasure and love themselves more then they want to think about their own girlfriends. What I see is you, who puts more stock in how your male friends see you then treating a woman that loves a man with respect. That's what I see.
sweetjasmine Posted December 3, 2011 Posted December 3, 2011 Goodness, you are extremely ridiculous that now your trying to claim that strip clubs aren’t sexual environments. I just have to shake my head on this one because it’s a really thick comment for you to act like they aren’t places motiviated by sexual titillation. Yikes. I've heard this one before, and it's a pretty hilarious argument. If it weren't a sexual environment and were just like walking into the office elevator, then most men wouldn't mind getting a lap dance from their mother, sister or daughter while grandma and grandpa watch. Hell, why even go to a strip club on a separate night? Hire a few strippers to come in right before you start the wedding ceremony so all of the guests can enjoy the totally-not-sexual fun that's just like walking into an office elevator.
xxoo Posted December 3, 2011 Posted December 3, 2011 Alternatively, he can find a girlfriend who doesn't mind. Agree? That's a great idea!
gaius Posted December 3, 2011 Posted December 3, 2011 Disenchantedly, your ideal man is really one who would throw away his livelihood because his boss asked him to go to a strip club?
xxoo Posted December 3, 2011 Posted December 3, 2011 Disenchantedly, your ideal man is really one who would throw away his livelihood because his boss asked him to go to a strip club? Business meetings in strip clubs are problematic for other reasons, and have led to lawsuits and firings: http://www.usatoday.com/money/companies/management/2006-03-22-strip-clubs-usat_x.htm The culture is changing.
Disenchantedly Yours Posted December 3, 2011 Posted December 3, 2011 I've heard this one before, and it's a pretty hilarious argument. If it weren't a sexual environment and were just like walking into the office elevator, then most men wouldn't mind getting a lap dance from their mother, sister or daughter while grandma and grandpa watch. Hell, why even go to a strip club on a separate night? Hire a few strippers to come in right before you start the wedding ceremony so all of the guests can enjoy the totally-not-sexual fun that's just like walking into an office elevator. I know right! That comment was really head shaking.
Disenchantedly Yours Posted December 3, 2011 Posted December 3, 2011 Disenchantedly, your ideal man is really one who would throw away his livelihood because his boss asked him to go to a strip club? You know, it's funny you say that Gaius, I was talking with a man a few weeks ago that told me this story about just that event with a guy he knew. We were talking about jobs and unemployment. A family man with a wife and children that had a good job was asked by his boss to be included in a meeting at a strip joint. The man didn't want to go into the strip joint and politely declined his boss telling him it went against what he believed in. The boss did end up firing him. I'm not sure if it was weeks or months later but that man ended up getting a job with another company that apparently turned out to be better then the job he had. Yeah, my ideal man is totally one who stands up for what he believes in. I can't think of a better man then that to be honest. Even if the cost is his job. Sometimes there are really difficult choices in life that we all need to make. Would we all be as courages as that man? I like to think so but I can't really ask myself that until I'm in that spot. And as long as after he got fired he wasn't sitting around playing with himself all day, how could I not respect a man that stood up for himself and his family. Those men are rare. Just look at how many men on here talked about saving face infront of their own friends or just talked about their own personal pleasure of being with strippers over their partners? What man would you rather be? What man do you think a woman respects more? It's not the guy sittingin the strip club with a smile on his face staring at the 18 yearr old strippers. Why would you even expect women to respect men like that?
Woggle Posted December 3, 2011 Posted December 3, 2011 Can't a guy sue for being fired for that reason?
Disenchantedly Yours Posted December 3, 2011 Posted December 3, 2011 I'm sure he could but this guy didn't. Apparently he just moved onto another job. How can you not respect a man like that though.
Wolf18 Posted December 3, 2011 Posted December 3, 2011 Disenchantedly, your ideal man is really one who would throw away his livelihood because his boss asked him to go to a strip club? Typical woman catch-22 Money vs values (though personally I see nothing immoral about going to a strip club, its mostly just a waste of money and time), the former wins with women every time. Kind of like when I used to work out for 3-4 hours at a time, and the girls would make fun of me for it. Yet, when they saw the results, their panties disappeared
Imageiko Posted December 4, 2011 Posted December 4, 2011 I don't really consider this a case of them not being on the same page. I don't know a man that thinks that private lap dances for them and their friends is really a cool thing to do in a relationship. And we really don't have a clear picture in the matter how he told her. Did he just mention like "oh guess what happened babe" or was it more of "I got a private dance with a stripper and I feel like maybe I shouldn't have". Because the first one would indicate just a cluelessness but the second indicates he knew what he was doing and he knew what he was doing wasn't fair to his relationship. So while I can't completely say that he knew what he was doing was wrong, neither can you claim it was a simple miscommunication or lack of communicatoin. We simply don't know that on either end. Unfortunately for you that's quite naive. Your opinion of how people should behave is not the issue here as I said before. People have to figure out for themselves what their boundaries are and be clear about them. Just because jeff from down the street bangs hookers and his wifes ok with it doesn't make it right for the next guy and vise versa. You have to figure out what works for both people in your relationship and you or I can't tell op where the line is. Also both of those examples to me read as he's not really sure what the boundaries were. The first being that he definitely didn't do anything wrong and the second really not sure if he did or didn't. In both cases if he had a clear idea from the start their wouldn't be this issue! You really think so??? Subcontiously sadly yes for some for sure lol
Disenchantedly Yours Posted December 4, 2011 Posted December 4, 2011 Imageiko Unfortunately for you that's quite naive. I don't think it is naive. Based on the responses I've seen from men and women over the years. I don't know many men who think getting private lap dances are perfectly okay and don't think twice about it. Your opinion of how people should behave is not the issue here as I said before. Say it as many times as you want Imageiko. We are all here to share are opinion on the topic about what we think. The OP came here looking for help and advice. Clearly she wanted other people's help and advice. Not just her own thoughts. Ultimately it comes down to what she decides but we all came into this thread offering out thoughts because she asked for them. Clearly the OP was bothered by what happened otherwise she never would have posted on it. Also both of those examples to me read as he's not really sure what the boundaries were. The first being that he definitely didn't do anything wrong and the second really not sure if he did or didn't. In both cases if he had a clear idea from the start their wouldn't be this issue! I've made my thoughts clear on this. I don't think I need to go over it again.
Negative Nancy Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 Also, if the gf said she didn't make a problem of him going to a stripclub in the fist place, don't you think it would be retarded to call her and ask if he's allowed to order drinks there? Or buy a girl a drink when she asks? Or have a girl sit on his knee? Or have a lapdance? Or have a lapdance in the back? That's 5 middle of the night phonecalls in a noisy club with his buddy making fun of him for being a doormat, and he's right for doing so. Now you would obviously say he shouldn't call for the first 3, only for the others. But then the obvious question is, how do you know what exactly you should call for and what you can decide for yourself. you really aren't getting it. so if a man tells his gf that he doesn't have a problem with her going to a dance club, by your logic he shouldn't make a big fuss if she ended up grinding on a guy and sat on his lap and stuff? because after all, he did not explicitly state that he'd be bothered by that. some men are really make me wonder about their capacity of applied logic.
lululucy Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 you really aren't getting it. so if a man tells his gf that he doesn't have a problem with her going to a dance club, by your logic he shouldn't make a big fuss if she ended up grinding on a guy and sat on his lap and stuff? because after all, he did not explicitly state that he'd be bothered by that. some men are really make me wonder about their capacity of applied logic. Agreed. I have no problem with my boyfriend going to a stripclub with the guys, or even getting a lapdance (as the ones here in Canada are no-contact) but if he went beyond that I would be gone. It's taking advantage of his fiancee. There's an expectation that if your boyfriend goes to a stripclub, he is going to be watching but not an expectation that he is going to be touching -everywhere- just because he wasn't told not to. Gah, this guy sounds like my ex. I'd run.
Oxy Moronovich Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 By the way, why does Canada have no contact stripclubs but prostitution is legal there? It's against the rules to touch a stripper but legal to have sex with a prostitute? I see the Canucks have some stupid laws like they do in the States.
Imageiko Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 By the way, why does Canada have no contact stripclubs but prostitution is legal there? It's against the rules to touch a stripper but legal to have sex with a prostitute? I see the Canucks have some stupid laws like they do in the States. 0/2 there sorry... Prostitution isn't legal anywhere and strip club rules vary based on the province I think.
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