Disenchantedly Yours Posted November 26, 2011 Posted November 26, 2011 Wow, so much bad advice on this forum. Staggering. You let him go to a bachelor party, which you know most of the time involves strippers. Take that as a given. Beyond that, he did some feeling-up which was inappropriate. In context, it's only a few steps over the line, that line (watching strippers) which you were supposed to have accepted. He didn't go out and romance some woman and do that with her, it was done with a professional woman who sells her body to men. It certainly meant nothing to her beyond the currency she was paid. I'm sure she needed alcohol later in her day to try to numb her total lack of moral values and terrible career choice. It's not cheating. There's no romance. There's no equivalence to a relationship. I'd call it sleazy, crude, inappropriate and insensitive, but not cheating. As a comparison, I would end any relationship for cheating. I probably wouldn't end it for one instance of my girl going and feeling up a stripper at a bachelor party. I would just question whether our moral values were compatible. In all reality, you don't really get to set the terms for the OP and what is considered cheating in her relatoinship. Now YOU don't consider it cheating so next time your girlfriend does something with another man you can apply those to your own relationships all you want but you don't get to tell the OP its not cheating or that she should be happy because there was no "romancing". I am stunned..just stunned once again with the responses of the guys. I guess I shouldn't be but I really am. Anything to defend the brotherhood and strippers over the real woman in their life.
Eclypse Posted November 26, 2011 Posted November 26, 2011 Clearly she was ok with him going and watching. I asked my girl her opinion and she said she wouldn't mind if I went and watched the strippers. But clearly the touching is not what she had in mind and he still went and did it. He didn't need her to tell him it wasn't ok, it's just common sense and he's purposefully disrespecting the relationship. I wouldn't recommend a knee jerk reaction like dumping him right away, but i would definitely reccomend studying him a bit, particularly in closer detail how he treats you in day to day life. You may end up figuring out it was a on le off and can be forgiven, or he may just be a royal douchebag in general. In that case dumping is the best option.
ShannonMI Posted November 26, 2011 Posted November 26, 2011 Not only do you have no clue as to what you're talking about, but you're making opposing statements on top of it all. So we now have both "very few strip clubs allow their patrons to touch the girls" AND yet "head... usually happens" (at strip clubs) Which is it gonna be?? If you don't know what you're talking about, fine, but at least show enough sense to stay on one side or the other, without proving to everyone that you know nothing about either side. You are right I don't frequent titty bars unlike you. So maybe I don't know what I'm talking about. All I know is from what I hear from male friends and from this particular thread. I'd imagine you frequent them quite a bit so you would know what goes on. Anyways....for the right price touching would be allowed as in the case of OP's story. Usually strip clubs do not allow touching, but if you are paying the big bucks apparently it's OK. Also head is OK in certain circumstances. Like I said before, a male friend of mine went to a bachelor party and received head from a stripper. As did all the other men at the party, including the groom. Perhaps he was lying. Why he would feel the need to do that, I'm not quite sure. I live in NY. My friend went to a nice strip club in Albany. It wasn't a run down, seedy place. The girls were attractive. Not white trash women. The men went into a private room, got their private dances and received HEAD. They paid a fair amount of money to do so. It's all about money with strip clubs. If you only have dollar bills, you ain't getting sh*t. No touching, no private dances or anything else. You pull out the Benjamins and you can do quite a bit more. I guess in Vegas it's different. There is no oral sex but with enough cash you can grope tits and ass. So that is why I have two different views on strip joints. Touching is NOT allowed, but with enough dough it is. And yes other things go down as well. At least from the stories I've heard.
eatNrM Posted November 26, 2011 Posted November 26, 2011 So much debate over something so simple. The dude is a grown ass man. He should know where limits are to these things. If touching another woman's boobs isn't ok while he's in a relationship, why is it ok with a stripper? I would imagine he would be old enough to know the limits with these things. He should just be a man and own up. The alcohol, being in the moment, etc is just another terrible excuse. Just like if I ever let my fiance' go, I'd let her go and just shoot her a quick 'remember, look but no touch' message. Easy enough. If she can't help herself, it shows she has no control. As in this case, viewing wasn't enough for him. He wanted to touch another woman's body that wansn't his fiance's for a change. Not sure what this means in the grand scheme of things, hm. As I'm sure, most of the men in here would not be dumbing it down to 'it was a financial transaction' if their SO was having a jolly time with a male stripper's fun sack. There's comes a point where we need to stop making excuses for bad behavior and own up to it. I feel one thing we've (read: adults, especially) gotten really good at as is constantly making excuses for bad behavior. Be a man/woman and own up to it.
dasein Posted November 26, 2011 Posted November 26, 2011 I will have to keep this in mind next time you take issue with something involving women. That you're feelings are natural but you'll get over it. Keep whatever you want in mind, my advice in this thread would be identical to a male OP. Agreeing to be envolved in a Vegas trip doesn't automatically authorize behavior a man or woman knows their partner wouldn't be comfortable with. Stop rationalizing. Giving permission for one's SO to go to a strip bar includes permission to do whatever normally goes on in a strip bar unless otherwise discussed. Touching happens in a strip bar and someone who doesn't want their SO touching strange women should either establish that limit or tell their SO not to go. Your personal experience with men that you keep company with that don't treat their partners well is not "fact" so much as it is your personal life experience. Some of us are actually interested in helping OP to feel better and move past this, and that was why I made the comparison of a Vegas strip bar to Disneyland when compared with other possible types of bachelor parties. Doesn't surprise me that you don't get that. Lets be honest, it might not have been trickery or deceit but he was only honest about it after the fact. Despite the fact that he is a grown adult man and clearly knew that this possibly wasn't the best choice to make. Even when trickery or deceit aren't envolved, and in all honesty, we don't even know if her boyfriend was compeltely honest about everything that happened, a man or woman can naturally and fairly run into issues with their relationship that are still worth problem solving. What is unfair and unreasonable is to manipulate a person into believing that the only right they have in feeling concerned about their partner's actions is if they are lied to outright when relationships are never that cut and dry. Colossal wad of non sequitur and irrelevance. She gave permission. He went and got conned into spending more money than he intended. He fessed up. Simple as that. Up to OP whether she wants to take this misunderstanding as a learning experience and get past it, or extrapolate in an unwarranted way like the above quote and make some crusade out of it. My advice remains the former. If we were to use real logic and reason, ...we wouldn't try to blameshift this all to the man by attributing superhuman powers of foresight to him, while allowing the woman to escape all accountability (as usual) for her basic, rather naive oversight. Further,you talk a lot about logic but play a guessing game about the seriousness of the touching. Please, if you are going to start your post by talking about how your going to address the "facts", please be consistant in that and not use that word as a back drop to play guessing games about how you think the OP's boyfriend behaved or how you think the stripper behaved. That isn't fact or logic. You have proven over and over again on LS that responding to the words that people actually post is beyond you, and that you'd rather make up something that they didn't say, and attribute intent that they didn't express, for the purpose of building your absurd straw men. When I posted "let's look at the facts and circumstances," what was the thought process that got you to the above straw man? Do you honestly believe that someone who posts "facts and circumstances" is somehow prohibited from posting their opinion thereafter? Do you know what the word "circumstances" means? As far as not knowing about the extent of the touching, we don't know much as matters of absolute certainty, for all we know OP could be a prisoner posting from a low security prison for laughs. What I do know is that based on my personal experience with strip bars, especially in Vegas, experience that you likely have exactly 0 of, if a guy says he paid extra to touch a woman, two things follow 1) he's just another one of 1000 guys a day who get suckered in the exact same way, and 2) whatever touching he got to do is much less exciting than what the imagination can conjure. You see, those places are literally COVERED with cameras being watched fulltime, all of Vegas is. The dancers are instructed in -exactly- what level of touching to sell for what price. That touching menu stops at light touching on the waist, or similar, and costs $250-700 per half hour. If they deviate from that they are gone. SHE of course has more latitude; in all likelihood what he paid for was more contact initiated by her, with very light contact permitted to him during. This is the worse argument of all. No whatever you post on any topic is generally the "worse (sic) argument of all."
dasein Posted November 26, 2011 Posted November 26, 2011 I don't speak for anyone else, but touching a strippers tits and giving someone a handjob are not even close to the same thing. They don't have any sense of perspective, or of what is aptly analogous and what is not. I think for some of them, a handjob really is indistinguishable from having a stripper press their tits on a guy through clothing.
grkBoy Posted November 26, 2011 Posted November 26, 2011 That's an interesting perspective. Why is it ok for the guy who is about to get married (the fiance for whom the bachelor party is held) to get lap dances and touch strippers and whatnot, but it's not ok for another guy who is engaged to be married (a bachelor party guest) to do the same. Best answer would be to gauge the "other guy" on how he would feel if his girlfriend went to the bachelorette party and got to feel up the male stripper. In all honesty, I think the ritual of the bachelor party is ridiculous, and more and more I see it became about seeing what one can get away with. I personally define "cheating" as when one crosses the line both sides know will upset the other. I give this guy credit that he came home and told damsel what went on, as I'll see many others say "what she doesn't know won't hurt her". I'm sorry...but if one has to say that, then they know they're crossing the line. If they want to complain how their girlfriend/wife has an issue with everything, then I'd ask the guy why he's marrying her. I don't think damsel should leave her man, because I'm sure he didn't know he crossed a line with her. They should rationally talk it out and he knows that he crossed a line and should not do it again if he wants a future with her. I just think that any man, when he's about to do things like this, should ask himself how he would react if his girlfriend/wife would do the same with a man. If he has an issue, then he shouldn't do what he's about to do. So if damsel's fiance has an issue with damsel putting her hands all over a male stripper, then he should have known better than to think it's ok for him because he's a man.
Wolf18 Posted November 26, 2011 Posted November 26, 2011 "there's no sex in the champagne room...none" Wise words. I don't like strip clubs. Every time I go I blow 200 bucks on overpriced yet also watered down whiskey, standard fare pub food at Dorsia prices and women who think theyre better than they actually are. If you have a lot of money to blow, buy a bottle of chivas, order dominoes, and just get an escort On the topic, you women just aren't getting it, we are different. Men can want to bang other women in the moment but only love/be loyal to you. Women are different, they always confuse lust for love.
ChessPieceFace Posted November 26, 2011 Posted November 26, 2011 I just adore your double-standards...... I just adore unsubstantiated personal attacks based on personal feuds brought over from other threads where I've bested you and/or deeply offended your feminist dogma. In all reality, you don't really get to set the terms for the OP and what is considered cheating in her relatoinship Then neither does anyone else. So you can all just stop typing words now? Let's all agree to stop offering any advice whatsoever. I'd agree to that, since it would help people immensely, based on how much bad !%$^ing advice gets offered here. I can't combat it all, I'm only one person. Now YOU don't consider it cheating so next time your girlfriend does something with another man you can apply those to your own relationships all you want but you don't get to tell the OP its not cheating or that she should be happy because there was no "romancing". Again, let's ALL agree to stop typing words then. That's the logical outcome of your mindset (no one can offer their own viewpoints.) I'm so down with that. I am stunned..just stunned once again with the responses of the guys. I guess I shouldn't be but I really am. Anything to defend the brotherhood and strippers over the real woman in their life. I'd probably never go to a stripper, not even at a bachelor party. My friends have asked me to, and I always say no. I think it's gross and demeaning. Maybe part of me would find it enjoyable but the rest of me would find it awkward and morally offensive, and I'd end up feeling more bad for the women than anything else. I'd sit there idly glancing at them, ruminating about the state of our society / humanity and wishing I was just home doing things by myself. See I have this thing where I can think beyond the confines of my own mind and personal standards. Try it sometime. I will quote myself now since I'm one of the few people here worth quoting: It's not cheating. There's no romance. There's no equivalence to a relationship. I'd call it sleazy, crude, inappropriate and insensitive, but not cheating. So even though I called it sleazy, crude, inappropriate and insensitive, you're still mortified. That is why you shouldn't be giving any advice whatsoever. Your mind and personal standards are somewhere other than reality, and you can't get past them or be clear-headed about anything. That said, you're not THAT much worse than some people here, and what you're doing here is offering a warped female perspective on a topic you can't grasp. What the OP needs is a male perspective from a male with values and a clear head. That's me. It's not cheating. It's lewd groping with a trashy stripper. That was my point. It's an important distinction and one you cleary can't grasp. Well, unless the OP also considers herself to be a whore selling her body to this guy for money, rather than his life partner sharing things like love and companionship in addition to sex. Then I guess it could be cheating. Onyx, DY, feminists supreme, would you allow your pet husband to even go to a bachelor party and view a stripper? I'm thinking you wouldn't. Which again proves why you need to just exit the thread, for the sake of the OP.
Negative Nancy Posted November 26, 2011 Posted November 26, 2011 They don't have any sense of perspective, or of what is aptly analogous and what is not. I think for some of them, a handjob really is indistinguishable from having a stripper press their tits on a guy through clothing. you clearly must have failed reading comprehension classes in school because it wasn't just a stripper pressing her tits through clothes; the OP's fiance actually TOUCHED and groped her tits and ass, so yes, taking THAT into consideration, it IS comparable to a handjob because in both cases it's touching the other genders sexual body parts. So much debate over something so simple. The dude is a grown ass man. He should know where limits are to these things. If touching another woman's boobs isn't ok while he's in a relationship, why is it ok with a stripper? I would imagine he would be old enough to know the limits with these things. He should just be a man and own up. The alcohol, being in the moment, etc is just another terrible excuse. Just like if I ever let my fiance' go, I'd let her go and just shoot her a quick 'remember, look but no touch' message. Easy enough. If she can't help herself, it shows she has no control. As in this case, viewing wasn't enough for him. He wanted to touch another woman's body that wansn't his fiance's for a change. Not sure what this means in the grand scheme of things, hm. As I'm sure, most of the men in here would not be dumbing it down to 'it was a financial transaction' if their SO was having a jolly time with a male stripper's fun sack. There's comes a point where we need to stop making excuses for bad behavior and own up to it. I feel one thing we've (read: adults, especially) gotten really good at as is constantly making excuses for bad behavior. Be a man/woman and own up to it. another man that gets it. good post and right on the money.
Negative Nancy Posted November 26, 2011 Posted November 26, 2011 On the topic, you women just aren't getting it, we are different. Men can want to bang other women in the moment but only love/be loyal to you. I'm sure you'd be down with your potential gf wanting to bang other men too then.
ChessPieceFace Posted November 26, 2011 Posted November 26, 2011 The dude is a grown ass man. He should know where limits are to these things. If touching another woman's boobs isn't ok while he's in a relationship, why is it ok with a stripper? If looking at a woman taking her clothes off and displaying her genitals in his face isn't ok while he's in a relationship, why is it ok with a bachelor party stripper? See how utterly you've failed? you clearly must have failed reading comprehension classes in school because it wasn't just a stripper pressing her tits through clothes; the OP's fiance actually TOUCHED and groped her tits and ass, so yes, taking THAT into consideration, it IS comparable to a handjob I'd like you to extend this line of thought, where you compare things to handjobs which are totally unequal to handjobs and don't involve sexual intercourse or orgasm. Then write it up formally and disseminate it throughout the internet, so that guys can get handjobs more easily. Wait. Groping isn't sex, so handjobs aren't sex either! And thus not cheating? Again, so much fail.
ShannonMI Posted November 26, 2011 Posted November 26, 2011 I'm sure you'd be down with your potential gf wanting to bang other men too then. No that's Ely Powder or whatever the f*ck his name is. He's cool with letting his woman be "free" as he says. Or in other words to bang other men. Gross:sick:
Woggle Posted November 26, 2011 Posted November 26, 2011 Even I am surprised by some of the men in this thread. This is not the attitude I expect from my fellow men. I am consistent on how I view fidelity and cheating. It is wrong either way.
eatNrM Posted November 26, 2011 Posted November 26, 2011 If looking at a woman taking her clothes off and displaying her genitals in his face isn't ok while he's in a relationship, why is it ok with a bachelor party stripper? See how utterly you've failed? Not sure what I failed at. But in case something was somehow misunderstood: He should not be fondling/groping any other woman that is not his fiance'. Pretty simple.
ShannonMI Posted November 26, 2011 Posted November 26, 2011 Not sure what I failed at. But in case something was somehow misunderstood: He should not be fondling/groping any other woman that is not his fiance'. Pretty simple. Yep very true and very simple. And a woman who is attached shouldn't be groping any man who is not her boyfriend or fiance.
Ninjainpajamas Posted November 26, 2011 Posted November 26, 2011 This is what goes on in stripclubs, is this not common knowledge?
ChessPieceFace Posted November 26, 2011 Posted November 26, 2011 Not sure what I failed at. You argued against the guy's behavior based on "what if he did that with someone other than a stripper??" Just the act of watching a stripper already negates that argument. The whole concept of watching a stripper at a bachelor party is that you are NOT doing something you would do every day, nor are you doing something with a romantic partner. It is a false comparison. The whole point of the situation is to BE lewd. Why is THAT so hard to grasp? And by the way, the OP gave her SO permission to go to the bachelor party which she assumed would involve a stripper. So in summary: - Equating everyday behavior with behavior at a bachelor party is false - Equating actions with a stripper to actions with a romantic / cheating partner is false - The OP allowed the bachelor party trip, so the feminists in this thread who WOULDN'T have allowed that are not providing relevant advice to the OP, they're just displaying the size of the sticks up their behinds. Anyone that doesn't agree with those 3 bullet points isn't giving relevant advice. They are giving poor advice that could break up a relationship needlessly, and that's not acceptable. The OP's SO acted inappropriately and all the other things I said, but it wasn't cheating. She should deal with it on that basis.
MrNate 2.0 Posted November 26, 2011 Posted November 26, 2011 I need to apply for one of these Chipendale joints. I wouldn't mind dropping that ass for a couple grand a night.
Negative Nancy Posted November 26, 2011 Posted November 26, 2011 using the services of a male escort is not every day behavior either. so if the op's fiance had come here distraught about the OP's night with a male escort (which, by the logic of some men in here, merely is a financial transaction with no feelings involved anyway, hence nothing to be upset about), would you have told him to "get over it" in the same fashion?
MrNate 2.0 Posted November 26, 2011 Posted November 26, 2011 (edited) This is the new MrNate reporting in (formerly eatNrM) You argued against the guy's behavior based on "what if he did that with someone other than a stripper??" Just the act of watching a stripper already negates that argument. This shows me you didn't read my post. I never had an issue with watching. The whole concept of watching a stripper at a bachelor party is that you are NOT doing something you would do every day, nor are you doing something with a romantic partner. It is a false comparison. The whole point of the situation is to BE lewd.This shows me you didn't read my post. I never had an issue with watching. Why is THAT so hard to grasp?I'm asking myself the same question. And by the way, the OP gave her SO permission to go to the bachelor party which she assumed would involve a stripper. So in summary: - Equating everyday behavior with behavior at a bachelor party is false - Equating actions with a stripper to actions with a romantic / cheating partner is false - The OP allowed the bachelor party trip, so the feminists in this thread who WOULDN'T have allowed that are not providing relevant advice to the OP, they're just displaying the size of the sticks up their behinds. Anyone that doesn't agree with those 3 bullet points isn't giving relevant advice. They are giving poor advice that could break up a relationship needlessly, and that's not acceptable. The OP's SO acted inappropriately and all the other things I said, but it wasn't cheating. She should deal with it on that basis. Whether it was cheating or not is irrelevant. The 'poor advice that could break up a relationship needlessly and is not acceptable' statement is just as irrelevant. Her SO did enough of that on his own accord. Edited November 26, 2011 by MrNate 2.0
ChessPieceFace Posted November 26, 2011 Posted November 26, 2011 using the services of a male escort is not every day behavior either. A bachelor party is a "revered" group ritual preceding a wedding. Calling a prostitute or "escort" is a desperate act by an individual to solicit sex. There is no comparison. You just fail, fail, fail.
Woggle Posted November 26, 2011 Posted November 26, 2011 A bachelor party is a "revered" group ritual preceding a wedding. Calling a prostitute or "escort" is a desperate act by an individual to solicit sex. There is no comparison. You just fail, fail, fail. Actually it pretty much is the same.
Wolf18 Posted November 26, 2011 Posted November 26, 2011 (edited) I'm sure you'd be down with your potential gf wanting to bang other men too then. You've got to be an idiot if you think a girlfriend won't ever at the very least be tempted by another men. Women who go out in public probably get hit on close to a 100 times a month (and that's only if you're talking about average looking women), most men hit on anything and everything. Chances are out of those guys hitting on them, they're going to think one of them is liek rly hot. The worst is women get emotionally attached to guys just because of their looks or status and start pretending they actually are funny or interesting, while men usually know that a girl giving you a boner doesnt mean she has anything else to offer, so we are more prone to be loyal to good ol loyal plain jane sitting at home who loves us over some very hot random woman. Edited November 26, 2011 by Wolf18
SincereOnlineGuy Posted November 27, 2011 Posted November 27, 2011 It "happens" as far as receiving a long PRIVATE lap dance goes... Or perhaps she was alluding to that it's common for people to "omit" details, heh. Yeah, sorta like you omitted HER original quote "(head) USUALLY happens". (Implying 51 times out of 100, at least) (let me guess, that "omission" was a "typo" on your part)
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