Do women appreciate good men?

[AHardDaysNight]

Some do, some don't.

 

Generally, the good ones do.

[Elysian Powder]

This, Women at that age group, assuming they haven't beome jaded, also notice and appreciate good men more. If it wasnt for my age, i'd already be in a long term relationship.

 

real men don't want leftovers, nor do they want to be captain-save-a-ho'.

[Wolf18]

What's wrong with being a "bad boy" ? Men who are fueled by testosterone, follow their instincts and don't give a **** have a right to all the women because that is nature.

 

Women don't really like "bad boys", they instead like the fashion or confuse plain scumbags with lots of tattoos who rape, sell drugs to kids, and steal from working people for masculinity/rebels. It's possible to be intelligent and have some kind of ethics while also having a huge disdain for this lame society, completely void of any heroic opportunity (and no, I'm not talking about Batman).

[Feelsgoodman]

What's wrong with being a "bad boy" ? Men who are fueled by testosterone, follow their instincts and don't give a **** have a right to all the women because that is nature.

 

Women don't really like "bad boys", they instead like the fashion or confuse plain scumbags with lots of tattoos who rape, sell drugs to kids, and steal from working people for masculinity/rebels. It's possible to be intelligent and have some kind of ethics while also having a huge disdain for this lame society, completely void of any heroic opportunity (and no, I'm not talking about Batman).

Having disdain for society has nothing to do with it. If you are a plaid shirt & levis wearing, softly spoken computer programmer, you would never be considered a "bad boy" even if you had more disdain for society than the Unabomber.

 

Real bad boys have one thing in common. They all have violent streak, regardless of their ethnic and socio-economic background. I guess women find that attractive on an instinctual level (violent man = good protector and all that...)

[Feelsgoodman]

That's a silly thing to say. Real men don't use tems like that.

And how would YOU know?

[Wolf18]

Having disdain for society has nothing to do with it. If you are a plaid shirt & levis wearing, softly spoken computer programmer, you would never be considered a "bad boy" even if you had more disdain for society than the Unabomber.

 

 

That's the joke. I see women going crazy for the infamous "wiggers", a cheap plastic MTV type of masculinity males from upper middle class families and silky smooth girl hands because they've never worked in their life take part in, acting like they're tough and dressing in clothes that's like 3 sizes too big and those straight-billed caps. I will tell you from living an area that has a lot of people like this, I have yet to lose a fight to someone of this subculture.

 

I wear plaid shirt with jeans sometimes, especially when I used to work on my grandpas farm (the clothes is good when youre going through things like wiring and it gets caught)

 

Real bad boys have one thing in common. They all have violent streak, regardless of their ethnic and socio-economic background. I guess women find that attractive on an instinctual level (violent man = good protector and all that...)[/Quote]

 

 

This is true, and not necessarily a bad thing. There is nothing wrong with violence or finding pleasure in combat, read Achilles, in better times like Bronze Age Greece men saw war as a rite of passage akin to woman giving birth.

 

Personally I feel restless in the modern world, because all elements of danger and glory have been replaced by cubicles, empty/"safe" thrills and Purell . The violent/warlike energy comes from the same source as sexual energy, that is why some of the greatest warriors were celibate until after the big battle and why women find this kind of man appealing subconsciously.

 

That's a silly thing to say. Real men don't use tems like that.[/Quote]

 

Note how calling someone a c*nt or leftovers is so deragatory, yet if are a woman and you call a guy a d*ck or make fun of his lack of success with women it's ok.

 

I hate PC, some people choose to call a spade a spade, and that's what real men are made out of. Only in a backwards society like this one does being a woman's lapdog qualify as being a "real man"

[Woggle]

One of my friends has a brother who is a wannabe and he once wanted to stop at the projects at six in the morning when everybody was sleeping so he could pose for pictures. We looked at him like he was out of his mind. It's funny how the people that actually live in the ghetto are desperate to get out while spoiled brats think it is the coolest thing.

 

If they spent a few days in a real ghetto they would be crapping in their pants.

[Wolf18]

They are both the same and neither is acceptable. What is being a woman's lapdog? Another made up term with no meaning.

 

 

A lapdog is someone who feigns outrage when people want to hold a woman accountable for her actions.

[Feelsgoodman]

This is true, and not necessarily a bad thing. There is nothing wrong with violence or finding pleasure in combat, read Achilles, in better times like Bronze Age Greece men saw war as a rite of passage akin to woman giving birth.

 

Personally I feel restless in the modern world, because all elements of danger and glory have been replaced by cubicles, empty/"safe" thrills and Purell . The violent/warlike energy comes from the same source as sexual energy, that is why some of the greatest warriors were celibate until after the big battle and why women find this kind of man appealing subconsciously.

Achilles was a homosexual and, by the standards of contemporary society, a pedophile, so I'm not sure he makes for a good example of real masculinity, but I get what you''re trying to say.

 

On thing that's good about the modern world, boring as it may be, is that you get to live past the age of 30. In more adventurous times, even if you were lucky enough not to die in your infancy, your life expectancy was still rather limited thanks to constant combat, diseases, malnutrition, etc.

[phineas]

I've seen it more commonly as someone who will automatically drop everything to do anything someone else wants.

 

Why ask the question when you already know the answer?

[carhill]

I've seen very few women in life who don't appreciate good men, and that includes married women, single women, healthy women and broken women; all sorts of women. However, attraction to good men varies widely amongst my subset of data points.

 

This dynamic is why I now, after much failure, focus on relationship and family history as indicators of compatibility and attraction potential in situations where a good man exists. I would hope and expect a good women to do likewise.

[Wolf18]

Achilles was a homosexual and, by the standards of contemporary society, a pedophile, so I'm not sure he makes for a good example of real masculinity, but I get what you''re trying to say.[/Quote]

[/Quote]

 

 

I know the Illiad like the back of my hand and I can tell you that the relationship between Achilles and Patroclus is not sexual, homosexuality requires you to have sexual contact with another man and there is nothing in the poem like that. It infuriates me how in these freudian hyper-sexual times 2 men can't love eachother or be affectionate without it being gay, a lot of people misinterpret things like the Illiad for their own political agendas. The relationship was paternal and about comeraderie, in my opinion this is something of a latent desire in all men .

 

 

When you are in combat the men who share experiences like that with you become closer than family. It's called a Frontgemeinschaft and it's not sexual (just read All Quiet On The Western Front, were they gay too? ).

 

When my nephew lived with me I was very affectionate and loved him very much, his father passed away and he had no male figures in his life. If there was a book written about this some "Queer Theory Specialist" with a PH.D would probably call me a pedophile or homosexual too

 

 

On thing that's good about the modern world, boring as it may be, is that you get to live past the age of 30. In more adventurous times, even if you were lucky enough not to die in your infancy, your life expectancy was still rather limited thanks to constant combat, diseases, malnutrition, etc. [/Quote]

 

Who cares. I'd rather live 30 years as a lion than eternity as a sheep.

In fact, there are pretty explicit scenes of Achilles conquering women!

Edited November 27, 2011 by Wolf18

[Elysian Powder]

That's a silly thing to say. Real men don't use tems like that.

 

Gotta make the suckers feel valued, huh?

?

[carhill]

Short of a few peer-reviewed scientific studies that have withstood the test of decades of anecdotal evidence and experience, everything posted about on LS is subjective. Each person's perspective of what a 'good' or 'bad' is completely their own and biased by their life experience and psychology.

 

I recall, in the movie 'Saving Private Ryan', where, as an old man, Ryan visits the grave of Captain Miller in France and asks his wife 'Have I been a good man? Have I lived a good life?. He then says something like this :

 

"Everyday I tried to live my life to the best, tried to be worthy, knowing what those men sacrificed on that battlefield for me many years ago."

 

Tried to be worthy of the love and sacrifice bestowed upon one by others.

[grkBoy]

The debate between Wolf and everyone else serves only to show how much women are not all the same.

 

There are a few women who simply want the "good man". Even the dorky guy who isn't a total social inept weirdo, but he's got a career and heart of gold will land these women. Unfortunately for most men these women are few and aren't single for very long.

 

Then there is the majority of women who simply want the "heart of gold", but it comes "packaged" as the attractive male they dream of. Maybe that "packaging" is as a biker, douchebag guido, thug-type ghetto boy, GQ yuppie, etc....other times they just want a guy who's easy on the eyes and has his own life. So he might not have a wild style to his hair and he dresses in bland Gap fashions, but he stays in good shape and has stability.

 

Then there are the few messed up women who really are turned on by "evil". So the shallow narcissistic jerk will turn these women on more than the "heart of gold", although many of these women dream of their "evil man" growing a heart of gold just for her...despite that it never happens.

 

 

The ONLY common theme though is you as a man have to put your best foot forward. Being "average" isn't enough anymore with most women...especially when "average" is being downgraded by men over and over.

 

Working a crappy job, living with your parents, and being 100 lbs overweight isn't "average"...it's BELOW AVERAGE.

 

This is why I tell you guys to build a career, learn to dress well, gain social skills so you're loose, confident and friendly when you're out. Have interests and be interesting. With that, even being shorter and bald won't be obstacles.

 

Think about it...if women saw Jerry Seinfeld, Cosmo Kramer, and George Costanza standing at a bar...which of the three would LEAST likely get a number?

[carhill]

Interestingly, in real life, the whiny, short, bald George (Jason Alexander) has been married (29 years) the longest and is the youngest of the trio. Jerry didn't get married until he was 45. Michael Richards hasn't been married in nearly 20 years. Going back to the 'standing at the bar', it appears that, if LS conventional wisdom is accurate, the guy with the best and longest relationship traction would be the one least likely to get the number. One good reason for a good man to not troll bars for relationship potentials.

[Sanman]

The debate between Wolf and everyone else serves only to show how much women are not all the same.

 

There are a few women who simply want the "good man". Even the dorky guy who isn't a total social inept weirdo, but he's got a career and heart of gold will land these women. Unfortunately for most men these women are few and aren't single for very long.

 

Then there is the majority of women who simply want the "heart of gold", but it comes "packaged" as the attractive male they dream of. Maybe that "packaging" is as a biker, douchebag guido, thug-type ghetto boy, GQ yuppie, etc....other times they just want a guy who's easy on the eyes and has his own life. So he might not have a wild style to his hair and he dresses in bland Gap fashions, but he stays in good shape and has stability.

 

Then there are the few messed up women who really are turned on by "evil". So the shallow narcissistic jerk will turn these women on more than the "heart of gold", although many of these women dream of their "evil man" growing a heart of gold just for her...despite that it never happens.

 

 

The ONLY common theme though is you as a man have to put your best foot forward. Being "average" isn't enough anymore with most women...especially when "average" is being downgraded by men over and over.

 

Working a crappy job, living with your parents, and being 100 lbs overweight isn't "average"...it's BELOW AVERAGE.

 

This is why I tell you guys to build a career, learn to dress well, gain social skills so you're loose, confident and friendly when you're out. Have interests and be interesting. With that, even being shorter and bald won't be obstacles.

 

This is absolutely true. The question is what is the definition of the average American male. Based on people I know it is a single man is his mid-late 20s, average build, 5'9", making $40-60k, with a college degree, living in a one bedroom apt.

[Feelsgoodman]

I know the Illiad like the back of my hand and I can tell you that the relationship between Achilles and Patroclus is not sexual, homosexuality requires you to have sexual contact with another man and there is nothing in the poem like that. It infuriates me how in these freudian hyper-sexual times 2 men can't love eachother or be affectionate without it being gay, a lot of people misinterpret things like the Illiad for their own political agendas. The relationship was paternal and about comeraderie, in my opinion this is something of a latent desire in all men.

Pederasty was very common in ancient Greece and the Achilles-Patroclus relationship seems to fit that mold quite well, even if Homer does not include any explicitly sexual scenes. What a modern day "Queer Theory Specialist with a PhD" says is of little relevance when even ancient Greeks commentators saw that relationship as pederastic.

 

Who cares. I'd rather live 30 years as a lion than eternity as a sheep.

You can still live as a lion. You are an American, are you not? America is currently involved in military conflicts, is it not? So what is stopping you from signing up for military service, getting deployed in Afghanistan, getting your head blown off by a roadside bomb and all that stuff? Still plenty of opportunity for heroism out there if that's what you want.

[Wolf18]

Pederasty was very common in ancient Greece and the Achilles-Patroclus relationship seems to fit that mold quite well, even if Homer does not include any explicitly sexual scenes. What a modern day "Queer Theory Specialist with a PhD" says is of little relevance when even ancient Greeks commentators saw that relationship as pederastic [/Quote]

 

Where is the proof? There were a couple of cities that practiced homosexuality and pedophilia during the general Hellenic decline, but as a whole both practices were strongly looked down upon. Read Plato's Symposium, in it he describes that those who practice homosexuality and pederastry were barred from going to Pagan rituals and pretty much seen as outcasts.

 

Achilles spending a lot of time with Patroclus, and being heartbroken when he is killed is not, again, is not sexual. There is nothing that describes a penis entering an anus or fellatio. The whole thing about the ancient Greeks being pedophiles and homosexuals as a rule rather than as an exception is a modern day historical revision with a powerful political agenda behind it.

 

There were states in Greece where homosexuality was tolerated, like Thebes, but if you read ancient scholars and historians you will find that the Thebians were the butt of all jokes in the Hellenic world

 

Greeks worshipped masculinity and its virtues, but so did all civilizations until maybe the early 20th century.

 

 

You can still live as a lion. You are an American, are you not? America is currently involved in military conflicts, is it not? So what is stopping you from signing up for military service, getting deployed in Afghanistan, getting your head blown off by a roadside bomb and all that stuff? Still plenty of opportunity for heroism out there if that's what you want. [/Quote]

 

I think my natural profession in a better time would be some kind of military career, the problem is I strongly dislike the US government and am fervently against both the war in Afghanistan and Iraq. I refuse to be a mercenary enforcing the will of international finance, that doesn't contradict my opinion that males are denied heroic opportunities in the modern world.

[carhill]

I think I offered a pretty good answer in my last post to your inquiry. When in doubt, look up a couple old-timers at the VA home and ask them. I think you'll find the answers enlightening. I happened to have one for a father so got them early.

[Feelsgoodman]

Where is the proof? There were a couple of cities that practiced homosexuality and pedophilia during the general Hellenic decline, but as a whole both practices were strongly looked down upon. Read Plato's Symposium, in it he describes that those who practice homosexuality and pederastry were barred from going to Pagan rituals and pretty much seen as outcasts.

Both Athens and Sparta practiced homosexuality and pedophilia at the height of their power. That's a historical fact. Your assertion that pederasty was as a whole "strongly looked down upon" is plain wrong. There were some people who were opposed to the practice, but by and large, pederasty was considered acceptable, especially among the upper classes.

 

And speaking of Plato's Symposium, it's interesting that you bring it up, because Plato himself was of the view that Achilles and Patroclus were homosexual lovers.

Edited November 27, 2011 by Feelsgoodman