So just tell me how to cope with porn then

[phineas]

I only watch it when I am single and there is no other alternative. Why would a man in a relationship need to watch it unless he is being completely cut off?

 

because the same routine putang gets effin boring?

 

Sadly, lots of men feel like that

 

This is why I won't stay with someone if the sex is boring or just ok.

I got a check list & if she doesn't meet the criteria I end it because I know down the road i'll get bored.

 

My ex-wife & I were like rabbits for 7 yrs.

She was a dirty little girl when it came to sex & it was never boring.

I rarely needed to punch the munchkin.

 

I only flogged the dolphin when she cut me off & she got pissed about it. LOL!

[Appleanche]

OK, so your issue is not with porn, but that if he masturbates within X amount of time prior to having sex he can't orgasm.

 

Correct, although not every time.

 

That's what you guys need to talk about. .

 

We have - he knows it bothers me and yet we still have this problem sometimes. I really think that, after we have spend a period of time together (like a vacation) that he's actually ready for me to go back home so he can have a few nights alone with his porn and hand. Maybe I'm making more out of it than I should be, but it's really hard not to when it physically impacts me. I worry about how time will impact this issue... might this get worse the porn women stay young and new and fresh while I continue to age?

 

I don't want to talk to him, that doesn't do anything, sadly. I either need to deal with it or leave him. Those are my only two viable options as far as I can see. Porn is the one area that I think most men will be deceptive about if their SO doesn't approve... they just get better at hiding.

 

I'm sure that if he never looked at porn, you guys would still be having this problem.

 

Don't think so, or at least it would be far less.... not enough to be an issue I bet.

[Appleanche]

If women can have free choice to get an abortion, why can't men have free choice to use porn?

 

Aren't each of us in control of our bodies???

 

Ladies, why do you want to control your men this way?

 

Obviously if you believe he is using porn instead of having sex with you, the porn must be more attractive and sexually stimulating than you are.

 

Also, porn doesn't nag.

 

Seems to me that it's a win-win for the porn.

 

Yes it just might be, thus the problem. It's always stimulating and always within reach - anything that's desired cab be found in about 5 seconds. That's why so many people are addicted to porn. The problem is not because of me and how I am in bed, or what I look like... that's all fine and normal. I put out, I love sex with him and I am always willing to try new things. He doesn't turn to porn because of issues within the bedroom, he turns to porn because he really likes to jack-off to it, which in turn creates issues in the bedroom.

[joystickd]

Every behavior has a positive intention. The thing is you have to find the positive intent to why he looks and masturbates to porn and channel it to a new behavior.

[somedude81]

We have - he knows it bothers me and yet we still have this problem sometimes. I really think that, after we have spend a period of time together (like a vacation) that he's actually ready for me to go back home so he can have a few nights alone with his porn and hand. Maybe I'm making more out of it than I should be, but it's really hard not to when it physically impacts me. I worry about how time will impact this issue... might this get worse the porn women stay young and new and fresh while I continue to age?

I'd do the facepalm asci if it wouldn't cause me to get moderated.

 

Yes, you're making a bigger deal out of it than it is.

 

I don't want to talk to him, that doesn't do anything, sadly. I either need to deal with it or leave him.

How have you talked to him about it, and what did you talk about?

 

Frankly, I think you should just tell him that the sex isn't as good if he recently masturbated.

Those are my only two viable options as far as I can see. Porn is the one area that I think most men will be deceptive about if their SO doesn't approve... they just get better at hiding.

So why make it a an issue at all.

Don't think so, or at least it would be far less.... not enough to be an issue I bet.

Men will masturbate with or without porn.

 

I don't know where women get the idea that porn is some kind of catnip that just drives men crazy and they have to masturbate and can't jerk off without it.

[ChessPieceFace]

You're right that he isn't going to stop using it because you tell him to.

 

There's so many angles on this issue that it's hard to give advice, and really everyone and every relationship is different. But obviously it's a problem when it's impacting your sex life, so then it's not something you can just ignore. If a website can give concrete evidence (not biased fear-mongering) of the negative effects of porn, then that would be a good place to start.

 

Here's another piece of advice I read somewhere: he has to stop looking at you as competing with the excitement/thrill of porn, because 1 person can never really compete with that. Instead he has to start seeing how real sex can be better and more fulfilling in other ways. I would say, though, that you should make every effort to make real sex as interesting and exciting as possible for him, to make things easier and have a better chance of keeping him.

 

Porn addiction is real and should be treated as such. Alcoholics have support groups and such, I think it's no different in this case. Again, because it's impacting your sex life. Admitting you have a problem, seeking help, 12-step program etc... is really where he needs to be looking if he doesn't have the willpower to stop on his own.

 

As a perennially-single porn user of almost 2 decades, stories like yours give me a lot of concern. I don't have anything real to take its place, nor will I in the near future, so I have a hard time seeing why I should deprive myself of it just to have nothing in exchange. I always imagined that I would wean myself off of it while dating, and then stop (or limit it to infrequent softcore porn use or something) while in a sexual relationship, but I've never been there yet. I frequently doubt whether I will ever be there.

[Appleanche]

Admitting you have a problem, seeking help, 12-step program etc... is really where he needs to be looking if he doesn't have the willpower to stop on his own.

 

Yes true, but he is not at that point. I'm not sure what it would take to get him there really.. me leaving perhaps. He has no intention of not watching porn; he likes it and feels no reason to give it up. I have concerns that I am not reason enough either, that no woman is. He said in so many words that asking him to not watch porn would be unrealistic and he'd just hide his usage. He just can't or doesn't want to see that it sometimes does have a negative effect, that even though he's going at it solo, it is seeping into our relationship. I don't think he'd ever really consider giving it up, which is the reason for my thread in the first place.

 

As a perennially-single porn user of almost 2 decades, stories like yours give me a lot of concern. I don't have anything real to take its place, nor will I in the near future, so I have a hard time seeing why I should deprive myself of it just to have nothing in exchange. I always imagined that I would wean myself off of it while dating, and then stop (or limit it to infrequent softcore porn use or something) while in a sexual relationship, but I've never been there yet. I frequently doubt whether I will ever be there.

 

You can be there if it's something that you want. You could try going without the porn and see what happens. Maybe try abstaining for a little while and don't use it to masturbate to. If you couldn't orgasm without it then I'd say you've got some work to do. One other thing (and this has nothing to do with porn)...sex feels different than jacking-off and your body may be so accustomed to the manual stimulation that it might be difficult to reach orgasm through sex.

[punkinless]

heres what i'm thinking . . .

more sex = less porn

 

use porn to your advantaga. next time u 2 are in bed tell him to teach you sumthin new.

[Els]

I think the best solution is, if it matters to you that much, to simply to find a partner with a reasonably compatible usage - bearing in mind that the frequency at which most normal people watch porn in relationships and outside of one, are usually two completely different values.

 

There are men who don't watch porn, or at least very little of it, when they're in relationships. I appear to watch more than the bf, at this point of time, and I do so relatively infrequently (once a week or so).

[mensrights]

I don't know where women get the idea that porn is some kind of catnip that just drives men crazy and they have to masturbate and can't jerk off without it.

 

There's a lot of answers to that question: porn marketing, pop culture, and -- you know somedude, just how often do you masturbate without pornography?

 

OP, I advise you to be careful with the response you get on this issue. The consequences of pornography usage are highly controversial here.

 

I assure you that there can be consequences to heavy porn use just like the ones you describe: inattention, inability to achieve orgasm, impotence.

 

The counterpoints you will receive will vary, but they will all have misdirection of the issue in common. This is not an argument about first amendment rights, or control over others' bodies, or autonomy in a relationship. You have identified that his behavior A, B, C is causing problems X, Y, Z -- and research exists to back that claim.

 

Although it will be difficult to convince your partner that he should give up pornography, it may help if you and he both do a little reading. If he understands how viewing internet porn affects his brain chemistry, maybe he will take ownership over how his decisions are harming both of you.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

Appleanche,

 

If you don't like porn and don't want to be with a man that uses it, then you deserve to man like that. There ARE men out there like that. Most likely you won't find such men online because it's natural to assume that the more time a man spends online, the more chance he probably views porn. Men that aren't looking at porn are more likely to be out in the real world doing real stuff.

 

I agree with you that I also don't like what porn is doing/has done to perfectly good men. As I've gotten older, I've seen more men adopt porno-like moves instead of just enjoying sex. Now you got do all this crazy stuff to have "hot" sex and it's not so much fun as it is that you have to act like a pornstar. It's just silliness. Ironically, while porn certainly opens up alot of sexual ideas, it is uniformly rather repetitive and limiting if you really pay attention. So I don't think it really opens the way for great sex as much as (men usually) like to peddle.

 

You shouldn't have to "cope" with something you don't like. You need to be honest about your own needs and if your man doesn't want to meet them, then you need to find another man.

[SincereOnlineGuy]

I doubt there are many men left out there that don't watch and masturbate to porn on a regular basis. Maybe some of the older generation, less knowledgeable about computers and more appreciative of life outside of technology. I understand what men value about porn. I get it, I really do. BUT: I don't like what porn is doing to perfectly good men and I don't like how women basically have no say or control in their SO's usage. If a man wants to watch it, he's going to, simple as that, and I am speaking from personal experience. I am a logical person, and I am realistic... men will only get sneakier. Those avid porn-defenders out there will just hide it better if she expresses an issue with his usage. And what is she to do about it? Nothing she can do really, except leave him. That's where our choice is, we can deal with it or we can leave.

 

So if I choose to deal with it (and I suspect there are a good many of us women in exactly this position)... please tell me how exactly to swallow my concerns about porn and choose to not be bothered by it, or at least minimize the amount of time I spend living every day with this occupying my thoughts. Do any men out there have something to offer that can help me be less concerned about my bf's masturbating to porn? Can I fool my brain into categorizing his porn use as a simple annoyance instead, much like him leaving his shoes in the middle of the floor for me to trip over or his tendency to be late to everything?

 

You don't even have to try to diagnose whether he has an addiction or not - I suspect he does on some level. I don't want to talk to him about this (any more than I already have).... I can state with certainty that he won't give it up and I don't want to deal with him trying to fool me that he would give it up just to pacify me while knowing full-well he's still going to watch it. I just want to learn ways to cope...

 

 

 

Uhhhhhhhh, I think it's OK to perhaps "control" your kids if you want to, but when you attempt to "control" your mate, then in most cases you're out of bounds (***unless you're on an episode of COPS).

 

Funny about the older generation... what with their having to pay $12 for Hustler these days.

 

You DO have a point about "what porn is doing to perfectly good men"... in terms of the marginal sex acts that are now requested daily because they have become so commonplace in porn.

 

As to your core wish in this thread... all I can say is that, had there never been an ounce of porn out there, male appreciation for the variety represented by the female body would be more akin to "rock, paper, scissors" than it would to, say, a five-card poker hand.

 

(since you're a logical person: a poker hand is a 1-in-2.5 million bit of randomness)

 

Even if you're in Germany, where some added a "well" to "Rock, Paper, Scissors", you're up to "FOUR" varieties now. (which would represent the past sexual partners of some random 42yo male (or 17yo male???) ).

 

 

SO, while a male may be able to 'appreciate' the nude forms of the millions of women depicted in porn, his gen-er-al, u-su-al willingness to pair-off with ONE (poker hand) still sorta suggests that he's nearer to you than you think.

 

 

(ponders to self: ) now what would one say, while representing 'men' somehow, to try to inspire women so hung-up on this subject, to see it from the male perspective?

 

I mean, geez, lets say I was partnered for a couple of years with a 35yo woman... and then I brought home two copies of "Barely Legal" magazine, and something my 35yo partner said caused every young tart in those magazine issues to spring to real life, naked, right in front of me... just what is it that makes the 35yo partner anticipate that I might line those young teens up and want to 'do' them all?

 

The same reason I don't run down the block and grunt at the 29yo who lives in the 2nd house from the corner... and that I don't go to the 7-Eleven and try to mate with the counter girl there, is why I'm still not going to eagerly defile the "Barely Legal" life forms which just appeared.

 

 

Maybe it's like the chicken and the egg in terms of women going out and eyeing one another, and saying to themselves: "I wish I had her _______", "I wish I had her _____________", and "I wish I had her ___ ____"

 

... and men, through porn (or otherwise) giving women the impression that "if ONLY she had that young tart's firm _________"... and "IF ONLY she could shake her ________ that way".

 

 

So, in summary, in case the OP is still awake after all this:

 

 

"stick with your poker hand..."

[Appleanche]

Appleanche,

 

If you don't like porn and don't want to be with a man that uses it, then you deserve to man like that. There ARE men out there like that. Most likely you won't find such men online because it's natural to assume that the more time a man spends online, the more chance he probably views porn. Men that aren't looking at porn are more likely to be out in the real world doing real stuff.

 

I agree with you that I also don't like what porn is doing/has done to perfectly good men. As I've gotten older, I've seen more men adopt porno-like moves instead of just enjoying sex. Now you got do all this crazy stuff to have "hot" sex and it's not so much fun as it is that you have to act like a pornstar. It's just silliness. Ironically, while porn certainly opens up alot of sexual ideas, it is uniformly rather repetitive and limiting if you really pay attention. So I don't think it really opens the way for great sex as much as (men usually) like to peddle.

 

You shouldn't have to "cope" with something you don't like. You need to be honest about your own needs and if your man doesn't want to meet them, then you need to find another man.

 

You're right, I shouldn't have to cope, but I honestly feel like just about every other man out there is also looking at porn. According to my male friends, EVERY man does. Logically I know we're not talking EVERY man, but since the percentages are really high, the chances of me actually finding one who doesn't are not very good. Based on that alone is the reason I started this thread, looking for help to cope with it. My last relationship was terrible with regards to the deceit about porn and it took a lot to pull out of that hole. I came into this relationship very open-minded about porn, looked at this as a fresh start and clean slate. Never once have I expressed any "control" over his usage, have only had those several discussions about his masturbating and how that's impacting our sex life. I'm not one to tell him what to do... I'm not his mom and he's not stupid. He has ears and I know he has heard my issue with it and he chooses to continue that behavior. No, not ALL the time but enough to know it's an issue that's not going anywhere. So here I am again in a relationship where porn is an issue. I just think this is something I'm going to have to deal with no matter who I'm with, and it just makes me sad. So yeah, I shouldn't have to cope with it but unfortunately I think I'm stuck with it. I am so discouraged by how prominent it is in the world today, primarily because of the internet of course.

 

What I have found that helps some is trying to stay "present" ...otherwise my thoughts automatically seem to go back to problems and ways to fix them. My wheels are always turning and I just get stuck dwelling on things. I am trying to be more conscious of 'the now' and focused on what's in front of me right at this moment. It's a start I suppose.

Edited November 25, 2011 by Appleanche

[Appleanche]

Uhhhhhhhh, I think it's OK to perhaps "control" your kids if you want to, but when you attempt to "control" your mate, then in most cases you're out of bounds (***unless you're on an episode of COPS).

 

Right about that. I don't believe in controlling a man, hell I even have a hard time even considering asking mine to change something. Men don't want to be controlled and it's not our place.

 

SO, while a male may be able to 'appreciate' the nude forms of the millions of women depicted in porn, his gen-er-al, u-su-al willingness to pair-off with ONE (poker hand) still sorta suggests that he's nearer to you than you think.

 

Hmm, yes I suppose that's true. He has chosen to be with one, in physical form anyhow.

 

Maybe it's like the chicken and the egg in terms of women going out and eyeing one another, and saying to themselves: "I wish I had her _______", "I wish I had her _____________", and "I wish I had her ___ ____"

 

Yes, we do that... or I do at least. I do a fair amount of comparing.

 

... and men, through porn (or otherwise) giving women the impression that "if ONLY she had that young tart's firm _________"... and "IF ONLY she could shake her ________ that way".

 

Yes, that IS the impression I get. Hard not to, especially when it feels like he chooses the women in the video over me in flesh form.

[Appleanche]

There's a lot of answers to that question: porn marketing, pop culture, and -- you know somedude, just how often do you masturbate without pornography?

 

OP, I advise you to be careful with the response you get on this issue. The consequences of pornography usage are highly controversial here.

 

I assure you that there can be consequences to heavy porn use just like the ones you describe: inattention, inability to achieve orgasm, impotence.

 

The counterpoints you will receive will vary, but they will all have misdirection of the issue in common. This is not an argument about first amendment rights, or control over others' bodies, or autonomy in a relationship. You have identified that his behavior A, B, C is causing problems X, Y, Z -- and research exists to back that claim.

 

Although it will be difficult to convince your partner that he should give up pornography, it may help if you and he both do a little reading. If he understands how viewing internet porn affects his brain chemistry, maybe he will take ownership over how his decisions are harming both of you.

 

Thank you. Several others have suggested that same website and I have since visited it a few times. Scary reality. We are in really in trouble.

[OliveOyl]

Right about that. I don't believe in controlling a man, hell I even have a hard time even considering asking mine to change something. Men don't want to be controlled and it's not our place.

 

Yes I felt that way in my marriage. I didn't want to control my ex's use of porn. And I didn't want to control his drinking. I thought the same thing... it wasn't my place. Yet my lack of setting boundaries and communicating these things meant I "placed" myself out of the marriage. I couldn't figure out how to effectively communicate how these things were impacting me. So instead of fighting for the marriage... I walked away.

 

If I ever get married again, I will make it my place... to do what I can to preserve and protect the marriage. There is a balance between too "hands off" and over-controlling.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

Appleanche

You're right, I shouldn't have to cope, but I honestly feel like just about every other man out there is also looking at porn. According to my male friends, EVERY man does.

 

Men that tell you that EVERY man looks at porn do it because of an idea of fortitude in numbers. They over normalize porn use because simply, *they* use it. If all men act a certain way, then they have no responsibility to be better. It's actually a very selfish and weak mentality. But if you accept a man in your life who likes porn when you don't, then you are promoting more of the same with men. If more women where more honest about their inability to tolerate porn, it might have a chance of becoming less important to men since men would be forced to make choices about their sexuality.

 

 

....I'm not his mom and he's not stupid. He has ears and I know he has heard my issue with it and he chooses to continue that behavior. No, not ALL the time but enough to know it's an issue that's not going anywhere.

 

This is a preview toward his attitude about his needs vs yours. He continues to do a behavior you know you struggle with. This won't stop at just porn. He will apply that same thought process to other areas of your life. So I would tread carefully with this one because to me this is a big problem.

 

 

So here I am again in a relationship where porn is an issue. I just think this is something I'm going to have to deal with no matter who I'm with, and it just makes me sad. So yeah, I shouldn't have to cope with it but unfortunately I think I'm stuck with it. I am so discouraged by how prominent it is in the world today, primarily because of the internet of course.

 

I get discouraged too. Then I hear men that come on here and are honest about their experience with porn and are trying to live lives away from it and I have hope that men will come to see porn for what it really is. There are men out there that aren't into porn. You don't have to cope with it.

[Daremo_06]

There are 2 things that have not been brought up yet in this thread.

 

1. Your feeling of self worth being affected by someone else's actions. Your self worth is not based on another person's actions. Something about the porn use triggers you, you feel bad about it and haven't figured out how to break that cycle. If you can fix that, you will not be affected to the level you currently have by his porn use.

 

2. He is trying to fill some void with the porn use. It most likely has nothing to do with you, but I would be willing to bet if you can both work on strengthening your relationship, that he will find he needs it less and less. Have you gotten a therapist/counselor to work with you both? If not, that might not be a bad idea.

[Queen Zenobia]

Men that tell you that EVERY man looks at porn do it because of an idea of fortitude in numbers. They over normalize porn use because simply, *they* use it. If all men act a certain way, then they have no responsibility to be better. It's actually a very selfish and weak mentality. But if you accept a man in your life who likes porn when you don't, then you are promoting more of the same with men. If more women where more honest about their inability to tolerate porn, it might have a chance of becoming less important to men since men would be forced to make choices about their sexuality.

 

Excuse me, some of us are able to tolerate (and even enjoy) porn. Not because we're duped into doing so, but because we actually feel that way. Why not just live and let live? You don't want to date a guy who watches porn, then don't. But don't try to shame everyone into sharing your views on the issue.

 

Look, I get that your pet cause is your crusade against porn. I have my own crusades too (ending the Federal Reserve system, getting rid of the TSA, legalizing drugs, promoting freedom, etc.) but I don't try to advance my (very good and logical) cause by leveling thinly veiled insults at those who see things differently.

[somedude81]

So here I am again in a relationship where porn is an issue. I just think this is something I'm going to have to deal with no matter who I'm with, and it just makes me sad. So yeah, I shouldn't have to cope with it but unfortunately I think I'm stuck with it.

You are using porn as a scapegoat.

 

You are obviously not listening but I'll say it one last time.

 

Men, also masturbate, without porn. Your problem with this man, will happen with porn or not.

[Appleanche]

There are 2 things that have not been brought up yet in this thread.

 

1. Your feeling of self worth being affected by someone else's actions. Your self worth is not based on another person's actions. Something about the porn use triggers you, you feel bad about it and haven't figured out how to break that cycle. If you can fix that, you will not be affected to the level you currently have by his porn use.

 

Yes, you're spot on. When it really started to bother me was when I realized that it was actually impacting our sex life at times... THEN it felt like he was choosing porn + masturbating over sex with me. Maybe it would be one thing if his refractory period were shorter... then I'd probably not even know whether he had or had not jacked off the night before because he wouldn't struggle to cum. But when he does it makes me feel like sh*t, like I am not good enough or am not satisfying him. I worry about the long-term effect as well... at the very least his subconscious knows that he didn't cum during sex with me but he can always get one on his own the next night (which is prompted by the porn). On some level this has to be sending his subconscious the wrong messages about sex and in turn, the wrong messages about the value of porn. I've read enough about porn addiction to know this is part of the problem, and even though logically I know it's not me, it still really feels that way. It messes with my head. If porn were not in the picture, then when he masturbates (which I guarantee would be less frequent without the visual aid) it would be natural, not brought on by some selected video image.

 

I'm rambling, I know. To address your statement, I think you're right in that I need to break the cycle of how it affects me so I won't feel bad about myself. I would very much like to find that direction because I am a firm believer that we cannot change other people... ever. I can only change myself.

 

2. He is trying to fill some void with the porn use. It most likely has nothing to do with you, but I would be willing to bet if you can both work on strengthening your relationship, that he will find he needs it less and less. Have you gotten a therapist/counselor to work with you both? If not, that might not be a bad idea.

 

Maybe, but if so I think it is within his own life rather than our relationship. We have a very good relationship outside of this issue - I think he feels we are perfect (and this is based on what he tells me). I wouldn't quite take it that far (because I struggle somewhat with how independent he is... a different story for a different day). Anyway, we actually are very committed to one another and very happy together.

[AHardDaysNight]

Men who watch porn are fine. Men who don't watch porn are also fine.

 

I would never be able to date a girl who didn't know how to cope with me looking at other women. We were never meant to be monogamous, that is a new thing.

 

It's not like I'm actually having sex with these women! If I was, I could understand her insecurity.

[OnyxSnowfall]

Men who watch porn are fine. Men who don't watch porn are also fine.

 

I would never be able to date a girl who didn't know how to cope with me looking at other women. We were never meant to be monogamous, that is a new thing.

 

It's not like I'm actually having sex with these women! If I was, I could understand her insecurity.

 

Some people were and are meant to be monogamous.... others were and are not.

[AHardDaysNight]

Some people were and are meant to be monogamous.... others were and are not.

 

That's a bunch of bull, and you know it. No offense.

 

Dr. Oz had one of the best psychologists on the show yesterday, and she said that, until recently, human beings never lived long enough to really be monogamous. We have it wired into our brain to go out and ($*$ as many men and women as possible. It's part of our DNA.

 

With that being said, porn is a great substitute for that. Since you're not actually cheating on your girlfriend or wife with it - how can you cheat with a computer? They don't think! - and unless you're super uber religious, you're not committing a moral issue.

 

I think there are worse things in the world...cancer for instance...that need to be worried about, rather than porn. Porn is a crutch, as I've said before, but it's not anything that you need to worry your pretty little head about.

[OnyxSnowfall]

That's a bunch of bull, and you know it. No offense.

 

Dr. Oz had one of the best psychologists on the show yesterday, and she said that, until recently, human beings never lived long enough to really be monogamous. We have it wired into our brain to go out and ($*$ as many men and women as possible. It's part of our DNA.

 

With that being said, porn is a great substitute for that. Since you're not actually cheating on your girlfriend or wife with it - how can you cheat with a computer? They don't think! - and unless you're super uber religious, you're not committing a moral issue.

 

I think there are worse things in the world...cancer for instance...that need to be worried about, rather than porn. Porn is a crutch, as I've said before, but it's not anything that you need to worry your pretty little head about.

 

No, actually, I don't know it.

 

I don't care who the **** wants to validate their harlot"ism"..................

 

I don't believe those bull **** justifications, BECAUSE I HAVE LIVED IN THEIR DEFIANCE. And without *struggle* heh.

 

I am not the only one who has lived this way.

 

You may go ahead and "rationalize" it with bull ****, but I *cannot* buy it.

 

Sorry, but whenever I've been in love and have committed myself, my eyes have only been for ONE. For YEARS at a time.....

 

Cheating in your HEART and in your MIND counts, sorry.

Edited November 26, 2011 by OnyxSnowfall