How To Tell Whiny Guys To Shut It

[somedude81]

Above all, don't - for God's sake - become like one of those dreadful guys who spends all his time on here whining about women refusing to date what he regards as being their male equivalents. Rise above it, for your own sake.

That was pretty uncalled for. Nice to know you think we're dreadful just because women don't like us. And then you point out that we are complaining about trying to date women we consider our equals. Is there a problem with that? Should we consciously be dating down?

 

And the key difference between verhrzn and the "dreadful guys" is that she actually has some relationship experience. She's had several boyfriends and unless it ended, she is currently "with" a guy.

 

The whiny guys have always been single, or it's been a very long time since we were with a woman.

[Taramere]

That was pretty uncalled for. Nice to know you think we're dreadful just because women don't like us.

 

Maybe dreadful is too strong. I'll replace it with "not a person to admire or emulate". Reason...the extent to which you are self absorbed. You seem to see other users on this board as sponges to soak up all your unhappiness.

 

I don't think I've ever seen you demonstrate any gratitude to people on this board for putting time and effort into trying to boost you up and give you ideas for dating. Any interaction with you just seems to result in more complaints and "yes buts..." emanating from your direction.

 

And then you point out that we are complaining about trying to date women we consider our equals. Is there a problem with that? Should we consciously be dating down?

 

Yes, you should. If getting dates with the opposite sex is such a priority and also such a difficulty that you're complaining constantly about it on a message board, then it is indeed time to drop your expectations.

 

If you can't attract interest from women you believe to be on the same level as you, but you're not prepared to drop your standards, then getting dates can't be as much of a priority as you proclaim it to be.

[Lonely Ronin]

Again, going purely by what you say on the board, you're friend zoned/ignored by them. Looking at your avatar photo, you're an okay looking girl who projects fun and quirkiness rather than sexiness and I think that might be one of the problems. I know it's just one picture, but I'm guessing you picked the picture which you feel best represents the essence of who you are. Cute, nice and fun.

 

The kind of girl men feel "comfortable around". Stop that. You need to start learning to make men feel slightly uneasy...because that's what makes them take notice of you, and it's what creates sexual tension. Ease up on that "nice quirky girl" smile and start smirking more. Use eyeliner, mascara, eyelash curlers and open those eyes right up...then make direct eye contact with men and hold it. Think dirty thoughts while you're holding that eye contact

 

Best comment on this thread IMO, and so true.

 

Pretty much every woman I have ever been in a relationship with, dated, perused, etc. has made me slightly uncomftorable at first.

[Woggle]

Maybe find some better quality guys. You clearly are attractive and if you are as fun as you say I see no issue. Many nerdy want an overly made up bimbo as a trophy so look elsewhere.

[Taramere]

Best comment on this thread IMO, and so true.

 

Pretty much every woman I have ever been in a relationship with, dated, perused, etc. has made me slightly uncomftorable at first.

 

Appreciation at last, for my pearls.

 

Years back when a friend and I were approached by these guys in a nightclub. I think, with hindsight, that it might have been a case of a dating coach with a client. Anyway...they approached us, and suggested a game of dares.

 

Each of us in turn was given a task by the others which involved approaching a group of opposite sex strangers in the club and behaving in some surreal (but not threatening, harassing or overtly sexual) manner. The point was to experience embarrassment...and not just to experience it, but to come to terms with the fact that embarrassment and discomfort are exciting sensations. You just have to stop short of putting the fear of God into people.

[Feelsgoodman]

From my observation, it seems the thing that separates short, overweight nerdy guys with girlfriends and short, overweight, nerdy guys without girlfriends is attitude.

And you don't think the same applies to short, overweight, nerdy girls?

[verhrzn]

And you don't think the same applies to short, overweight, nerdy girls?

 

No. Because I see short, overweight, nerdy girls who are happy and confident still get passed over. They get sad, but they're rarely "negative about it and seldom whiney. More just kind of a resigned "Oh well, that's how it is." I'm one of the few who speaks out, sometimes strongly, about the hypocrisy of it.

 

 

Again, going purely by what you say on the board, you're friend zoned/ignored by them. Looking at your avatar photo, you're an okay looking girl who projects fun and quirkiness rather than sexiness and I think that might be one of the problems. I know it's just one picture, but I'm guessing you picked the picture which you feel best represents the essence of who you are. Cute, nice and fun.

 

The kind of girl men feel "comfortable around". Stop that. You need to start learning to make men feel slightly uneasy...because that's what makes them take notice of you, and it's what creates sexual tension. Ease up on that "nice quirky girl" smile and start smirking more. Use eyeliner, mascara, eyelash curlers and open those eyes right up...then make direct eye contact with men and hold it. Think dirty thoughts while you're holding that eye contact

 

Don't mind what crap you read on the Internet. You needn't be a raving beauty to make men blush and stammer....but you certainly won't become that woman (who makes them blush and stammer) by focusing on, or caring, what they think about your sexy new colleague. Treat such things as an irrelevance.

 

That's actually a very interesting statement, and one I've never really come across before. What you say is very true... My core nature is quirky, nice and nerdy. My natural inclination around guys is to converse with them about common interests and relate to them, be interested in what they have to say-essentially, put them at ease. And the conversation has almost always ended up in them complaining how girls don't pay attention to them, and how can they get the number of the hot girl over there?

 

Huh. So, essentially, I'm treating guys the same way they say they treat women they like... and then I'm getting friend-zoned in favor of a hotter chick who projects mystery and sexuality, in the same way those same guys are getting rejected.

 

I've sometimes considered taking the advice we give unsuccessful men ("be confidence and a little cocky") and applying to myself, since I'm getting friend-zoned and rejected in much the same way. But the advice never struck me as quite right, like there was a missing element.

 

What you say, about actually being a tiny bit bitchier, and putting on a "Hmm are you impressing me yet" attitude... it makes so much sense! Wow. Just-what a revelation!!

[Feelsgoodman]

No. Because I see short, overweight, nerdy girls who are happy and confident still get passed over.

I see tons of highly unattractive women with boyfriends whenever I visit the US of A. So I'm sorry, but I have to call BS on that one.

[verhrzn]

I see tons of highly unattractive women with boyfriends whenever I visit the US of A. So I'm sorry, but I have to call BS on that one.

 

By your logic, I see very hot women with unattractive guys all the time... so does that mean ugly men don't have problems getting into relationships?

 

In my observations, I see ugly girls with fantastic personalities getting into relationships with average/decent looking guys. It's incredibly rare to see an ugly woman with a hot/beautiful man, though. And yet, I see it ALL the time in reverse. How does that work, exactly?

[johan]

Contrary to popular belief, there isn't one single definition of hot or of ugly in the world. And it is possible to really fall for someone who doesn't fit the stereotype of beauty. I have done it. And people are attracted to what they are attracted to, regardless of what they themselves look like.

[AD1980]

 

In my observations, I see ugly girls with fantastic personalities getting into relationships with average/decent looking guys. It's incredibly rare to see an ugly woman with a hot/beautiful man, though. And yet, I see it ALL the time in reverse. How does that work, exactly?

 

Yeah u see it in movies all the time not real life,most couples are pretty evenly matched looks wise

[ChessPieceFace]

Ah, so even if a girl has a good career, lots of fun hobbies, is intelligent, and with a great personality.... if she's unattractive, her only choices are dumb, unemployed jerks? Or being single forever? You don't think that's just a LITTLE too steep of a double standard?

 

Men want looks as much as women want money. So for those of you women who don't have the greatest looks, assuming you deserve the men who make good money / have good careers and looking down on the others -- there's your double standard. When you pine away saying "why don't men like me for who I am" and then you spout the same damn list of qualifications for men (money, career, etc.) again there's your double standard.

 

As for you, I've given you lots of help and gotten nothing but negativity in response. My conclusion: you don't deserve help.

[Els]

Verhrzn, your experience is a perfect example that regular women (although you are quite cute in your picture) have the same issues regular men do and that dating isn't an automatic A for women just because you have a vagina.

 

I don't think most reasonable men actually believe that. It's usually the subset of men who only think of 'hot' women when the word 'woman' is mentioned, that are under that delusion.

 

I think Taramere's advice has its merits, but I personally find it very sad that someone would have to change the core nature of their being, or at least put on a different face, to get a partner. What would that relationship be based on, if her partner does not even know the real her when he falls for her?

 

I would not tell a cute, geeky girl whom the guys are comfortable with, to alter herself into a mysterious, bitchy sexbomb just to get said guys. If they're not interested in the real you, why bother? Equally so, I don't agree that geeky guys ought to hide their personalities and pretend to be Mr. Cool and Confident Hunk just to get women. Perhaps as a last ditch resort, if one is TRULY desperate... but.. I just can't see a close and comfortable relationship developing from putting on such facades.

 

I do think that the OP should assert boundaries and not be a doormat, however. Men should not allow their female friends to come crying on their shoulder every night when a guy rejects her, while she has been rejecting him all along. Similarly, the OP should not allow men to use her as their 'wingman', to get her to introduce them to the 'hot chicks' while ignoring her, etc.

[Els]

Men want looks as much as women want money. So for those of you women who don't have the greatest looks, assuming you deserve the men who make good money / have good careers and looking down on the others -- there's your double standard. When you pine away saying "why don't men like me for who I am" and then you spout the same damn list of qualifications for men (money, career, etc.) again there's your double standard.

 

As for you, I've given you lots of help and gotten nothing but negativity in response. My conclusion: you don't deserve help.

 

There is no double standard if a woman with a career wants a man with a career. Conversely, there is no double standard if a good-looking man wants a good-looking woman. Double standards are about expecting what we cannot give in return.

[verhrzn]

Men want looks as much as women want money. So for those of you women who don't have the greatest looks, assuming you deserve the men who make good money / have good careers and looking down on the others -- there's your double standard. When you pine away saying "why don't men like me for who I am" and then you spout the same damn list of qualifications for men (money, career, etc.) again there's your double standard.

 

As for you, I've given you lots of help and gotten nothing but negativity in response. My conclusion: you don't deserve help.

 

Exactly where is "money" mentioned? Career does not equal "money." I just want a guy who is employed, who can look after himself financially... I am more than comfortable being the bread winner, especially as I'm in IT. I certainly don't dictate that a guy make as much, or more, money than me. I actually enjoy the power of treating my guy to an expensive dinner.

 

Essentially, what I want (and what the first poster said she wanted) was a guy who is EQUAL. Meaning, if we have careers, we want guys who have careers. Are you claiming that because a woman is unattractive, she doesn't get to have any standards? Even if those standards are "I want exactly what I bring to the table", meaning a guy who has a career like me?

 

And haven't you been negative in response? You haven't addressed any of my concerns; you've just thrown them all under the bus with the unhelpful label of "well you're negative!"

 

I think Taramere's advice has its merits, but I personally find it very sad that someone would have to change the core nature of their being, or at least put on a different face, to get a partner. What would that relationship be based on, if her partner does not even know the real her when he falls for her?

 

I would not tell a cute, geeky girl whom the guys are comfortable with, to alter herself into a mysterious, bitchy sexbomb just to get said guys. If they're not interested in the real you, why bother? Equally so, I don't agree that geeky guys ought to hide their personalities and pretend to be Mr. Cool and Confident Hunk just to get women. Perhaps as a last ditch resort, if one is TRULY desperate... but.. I just can't see a close and comfortable relationship developing from putting on such facades.

 

I do think that the OP should assert boundaries and not be a doormat, however. Men should not allow their female friends to come crying on their shoulder every night when a guy rejects her, while she has been rejecting him all along. Similarly, the OP should not allow men to use her as their 'wingman', to get her to introduce them to the 'hot chicks' while ignoring her, etc.

 

Agreed that I should stop being a doormat... But how exactly do I do that without being labeled bitchy or jealous? On Friday, I told two of the guys that'd been bugging me, coolly, to go introduce themselves... one of them chewed me out for not being a proper friend and being "bitchy", and the other just sort of chuckled and was all "Ooooo, JEALOUS, huh?"

 

If you don't think turning into a bitchy sexpot is a good angle to take, Elswyth, what do you suggest? The way I am obviously isn't working for me (and no, it doesn't work for me even when I'm not "negative.") So if it's not change my personality, or accept eternal spinsterhood, what's left?

[ChessPieceFace]

Essentially, what I want (and what the first poster said she wanted) was a guy who is EQUAL. Meaning, if we have careers, we want guys who have careers. Are you claiming that because a woman is unattractive, she doesn't get to have any standards?

 

No, I'm pointing out that the list of "most sought after qualities" in men & women aren't the same, and that "looks" in women is equivalent to "career/good money" in men. If you disagree you are naive and buying into the lies sold to you by feminism.

 

The whole thread is a waste of time though, since you aren't listening. GL with that negative mindset and argumentative personality.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

you must have solidly secured F's in HS for your exquisite reading skills. top of your English class, no doubt. Damn, you are funny. time to watch me some eve angel .

 

Cya

 

 

I did quite well in English class. Thank you for your care.

 

I don't care if you spend every waking hour masturbating yourself into a stupor Elysian. You're not my boyfriend.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

I don't think most reasonable men actually believe that. It's usually the subset of men who only think of 'hot' women when the word 'woman' is mentioned, that are under that delusion.

 

I think Taramere's advice has its merits, but I personally find it very sad that someone would have to change the core nature of their being, or at least put on a different face, to get a partner. What would that relationship be based on, if her partner does not even know the real her when he falls for her?

 

I would not tell a cute, geeky girl whom the guys are comfortable with, to alter herself into a mysterious, bitchy sexbomb just to get said guys. If they're not interested in the real you, why bother? Equally so, I don't agree that geeky guys ought to hide their personalities and pretend to be Mr. Cool and Confident Hunk just to get women. Perhaps as a last ditch resort, if one is TRULY desperate... but.. I just can't see a close and comfortable relationship developing from putting on such facades.

 

I do think that the OP should assert boundaries and not be a doormat, however. Men should not allow their female friends to come crying on their shoulder every night when a guy rejects her, while she has been rejecting him all along. Similarly, the OP should not allow men to use her as their 'wingman', to get her to introduce them to the 'hot chicks' while ignoring her, etc.

 

Completely agree with this.

 

My comments about some men and their inability to realize that women have their own dating issues isn't so much a commentary on the world as it is the men that seem to be drawn to LS.

 

And I completely agree with the rest of your comments as well.

[verhrzn]

Completely agree with this.

 

My comments about some men and their inability to realize that women have their own dating issues isn't so much a commentary on the world as it is the men that seem to be drawn to LS.

 

And I completely agree with the rest of your comments as well.

 

No, no, only MEN are allowed to be bitter about women rejecting them, and only MEN are allowed to have standards, even if they themselves don't fulfill their standards. As a woman, I'm only allowed to be ecstatic that unemployed, unintelligent, and uninteresting men are willing to lower their standards and date me (even though I'm at the very least employed) OR allowed to change my appearance to suit men's tastes.... even though I've already tried and failed that.

 

I just.... don't understand, how guys can come onto this board and complain about the lack of empathy from women on their dating issues, and then a woman comes on with the exact same problems and attitude and gets subsequently ripped apart by the very same guys. How does such twisted logic work?

[Queen Zenobia]

No, no, only MEN are allowed to be bitter about women rejecting them, and only MEN are allowed to have standards, even if they themselves don't fulfill their standards. As a woman, I'm only allowed to be ecstatic that unemployed, unintelligent, and uninteresting men are willing to lower their standards and date me (even though I'm at the very least employed) OR allowed to change my appearance to suit men's tastes.... even though I've already tried and failed that.

 

I just.... don't understand, how guys can come onto this board and complain about the lack of empathy from women on their dating issues, and then a woman comes on with the exact same problems and attitude and gets subsequently ripped apart by the very same guys. How does such twisted logic work?

 

People tend to only see things from their own perspectives. They have it hard, everyone else has it easy. It's not always about gender either. Race, socio-economics, etc. are all things that cause people to put the blinders on.

 

Everyone is a victim of their own circumstances, it causes them to see things only a certain way making it hard to relate to people not in that situation.

 

You don't have any harder than the men on here who complain, nor do they have it harder than you. You both have unique problems that can be fixed through whatever means necessary.

[dasein]

I told two of the guys that'd been bugging me, coolly, to go introduce themselves... one of them chewed me out for not being a proper friend and being "bitchy", and the other just sort of chuckled and was all "Ooooo, JEALOUS, huh?"

 

Are you serious? And you would want to date assclowns like this?

 

Gonna break some news here, OP (for you and all the other young women here who talk about these "dreamy" geeky types), I think I see your problem, and it's you only in the types of "men" you have sought out to date. Geeky, nerdy guys are that way because they are socially maladjusted, not because they are hip, retro, underground, misunderstood, thenthitive, tortured genius or any other descriptor young women fondly apply to these "pseudo men." That's a crock of movie/tv BS. A tiny percentage did well in dotcom, but otherwise these types are completely irrelevant to the business world or any other world. They all have ADHD, Asperger's or some other "romanticized disorder" that used to translate into the simpler term "poor social skills" way back in the honest days. Expecting one of these types to grow social skills out of nowhere is a nonstarter.

 

You need to change your social scene entirely and avoid these types. I have a hunch you have never been with a "normal" BF with a normal level of masculinity and testosterone. Go date and bang some of those and I bet you will outgrow the "geek" thing real fast and simultaneously find yourself in demand.

[Els]

 

Agreed that I should stop being a doormat... But how exactly do I do that without being labeled bitchy or jealous? On Friday, I told two of the guys that'd been bugging me, coolly, to go introduce themselves... one of them chewed me out for not being a proper friend and being "bitchy", and the other just sort of chuckled and was all "Ooooo, JEALOUS, huh?"

 

If you don't think turning into a bitchy sexpot is a good angle to take, Elswyth, what do you suggest? The way I am obviously isn't working for me (and no, it doesn't work for me even when I'm not "negative.") So if it's not change my personality, or accept eternal spinsterhood, what's left?

 

I can't really help in how to turn their requests down since I don't know your friendship dynamics, but something light-hearted and joking but unwavering would be good. If they call you 'bitchy' because you politely turned down their requests, they aren't very good friends to begin with.

 

I don't usually agree with dasein, but in this case I think he has a point in that you should probably be looking outside your company. The male demographic in your company just sounds really effed up.

 

No, I'm pointing out that the list of "most sought after qualities" in men & women aren't the same, and that "looks" in women is equivalent to "career/good money" in men. If you disagree you are naive and buying into the lies sold to you by feminism.

 

The whole thread is a waste of time though, since you aren't listening. GL with that negative mindset and argumentative personality.

 

Huh, so you feel that a good-looking waitress is not practicing double standards when she turns down the good-looking waiter on the basis of him not having a 'good enough career'? You must be in the minority then, because if a woman were to post that on these boards, you can bet your last chess piece that she would be chewed out by many people here, men and women alike.

 

Especially as the majority of men here (and thus I extrapolate that to be the majority of men in the USA) are paranoid about paying for anything for their gfs, I really don't think your standard applies here anymore. The 'women like men for money/career, men like women for their appearance' only really applies in societies in which the man still pays for a woman, because there is virtually no point in a rich partner otherwise. I still find looking at men or women as solely a sum of their appearance or $$ to be a horribly shallow mindset, but at least the latter makes some sort of sense.

[threebyfate]

Agreed that I should stop being a doormat... But how exactly do I do that without being labeled bitchy or jealous? On Friday, I told two of the guys that'd been bugging me, coolly, to go introduce themselves... one of them chewed me out for not being a proper friend and being "bitchy", and the other just sort of chuckled and was all "Ooooo, JEALOUS, huh?"

This is where you wink at them and say "Value for value. If you play wingman for me and introduce me to someone worth getting to know, I might intro you to the new chick".

 

If you don't think turning into a bitchy sexpot is a good angle to take, Elswyth, what do you suggest? The way I am obviously isn't working for me (and no, it doesn't work for me even when I'm not "negative.") So if it's not change my personality, or accept eternal spinsterhood, what's left?

That's not what Taramere's suggesting. She's suggesting that you enhance what you have, stop letting guys that you're interested in think of you as a buddy and to stop being a doormat. No one, nevermind guy, will value you if you don't value yourself.

[Els]

TBF, Taramere specifically said this:

 

Looking at your avatar photo, you're an okay looking girl who projects fun and quirkiness rather than sexiness and I think that might be one of the problems. I know it's just one picture, but I'm guessing you picked the picture which you feel best represents the essence of who you are. Cute, nice and fun.

 

The kind of girl men feel "comfortable around". Stop that. You need to start learning to make men feel slightly uneasy...because that's what makes them take notice of you, and it's what creates sexual tension. Ease up on that "nice quirky girl" smile and start smirking more. Use eyeliner, mascara, eyelash curlers and open those eyes right up...then make direct eye contact with men and hold it. Think dirty thoughts while you're holding that eye contact

 

If this isn't changing her 'cute, nice and quirky' self, I'm not sure what else it is.

 

As I said, I see the merits of T's advice in that I am sure it may help her attract men. But they would not be attracted to the real her... and that's where people get disillusioned after the honeymoon period goggles wear off. How long is she going to continue to put up that smirking sultry goddess illusion, once she gets the man? What happens when she doesn't want to use eyelash curlers and eyeliners and mascara anymore? She would be back to the woman she was before.. the woman that that man was not interested in.

 

OP, I had intended to append my advice before, but was unable to edit it:

 

Personally, I have been lucky enough to find men who love me for the real person that I am, just as I love them for the real person that they are. That is not to say that I will not improve on issues that need improving such as insecurity etc, but I won't change or camouflage traits about myself that are not actually wrong and define who I really am (geekiness, quirkiness, etc). However, I do agree that finding such men is quite rare, so when I do find them I appreciate them enough to really try and make it work out.

[threebyfate]

That's not what Taramere's suggesting. She's suggesting that you enhance what you have, stop letting guys that you're interested in think of you as a buddy and to stop being a doormat. No one, nevermind guy, will value you if you don't value yourself.

And here's what I wrote which covers what Taramere wrote.

 

mysterious, bitchy sexbomb

This, from you, is a major exaggeration.