Author verhrzn Posted November 23, 2011 Author Posted November 23, 2011 The crux of the issue is, though, do either of you WANT the men and women who do that? Sadly they do constitute a large part of society, but I have personally never seen the point of getting with people who prioritize appearances so much. Even if the OP does spend hours dressing up, doing her hair and makeup before work to look her best (and attract the men who are themselves turning up in ratty tees and jeans and uncombed hair)... then what? That man would still be choosing a woman based on appearance - only this time it is her. What is going to happen, then, when she wants to lounge around at home in sweats and no makeup? A repeat of the 'gf isn't attractive when she doesn't wear makeup' thread, I wager. Why set yourself up for that? No, I wouldn't necessarily want a guy who judged me entirely on how I looked (though I'd LOVE to have a guy who was really attracted to my looks. Oh how nice that would be.) My thing is, the only type of single guys out there seem to be all about looks. Sure, it's possible I'm just "meeting the wrong guys".... but I've never been sure what to do with that advice. I mean, what, are all the "good" guys squirreled away in some remote location? I've tried conventions, common friends, work, everywhere I can think of that is not a bar to meet guys, and all of them are the "pining after the hottest chick" type. So while I don't WANT that kind of guy, if that's the only guy available, then what? Eternal singledom?
counterman Posted November 23, 2011 Posted November 23, 2011 Library, museums, shopping centres, coffee houses, charity events, different kinds of hobbies, etc. Us good guys are everywhere. We don't all pine after the hottest chick. In fact, if that's you in the avatar, that's the type of chick I would want to date: brunette, brown or blue eyes, and has that smart girl look. But it's rare that I see that type on my campus... I know they are around though. I'm not attracted to the hottest girls around... there's certain girls I'm most attracted to and they aren't necessarily what others would call the 9s or 10s but I don't care. I'm getting a real negative vibe from you and, if you are like this in real life, then maybe that's it. Most guys like a fun, energetic girl and an attitude that you don't give a crap about all of this. When you do, it shows one way or another and that is not attractive, no matter how attractive you are on the outside. It's not your physical appearance if that's you in your avatar.
johan Posted November 23, 2011 Posted November 23, 2011 Hot women want to be valued for their [usually non-existent] intelligence. Average and ugly women want to be seen as sexy. Funny how it works. It is until you actually think about it. Women want to be valued for their attractiveness and their minds. Both at once. Seems fair.
Eternal Sunshine Posted November 23, 2011 Posted November 23, 2011 It is until you actually think about it. Women want to be valued for their attractiveness and their minds. Both at once. Seems fair. Exactly. I want to be valued for both.
dasein Posted November 23, 2011 Posted November 23, 2011 I disagree with characterizations of OP as bitter or unduly negative. She seems like someone who just needs to vent some stuff out, and it doesn't seem that she has made lots of threads saying the exact same thing.
Author verhrzn Posted November 23, 2011 Author Posted November 23, 2011 I disagree with characterizations of OP as bitter or unduly negative. She seems like someone who just needs to vent some stuff out, and it doesn't seem that she has made lots of threads saying the exact same thing. .... Ehhhhh, full disclosure, most of the threads I've started have probably focused around physical attractiveness and guys' attitudes towards it. I wouldn't say I've made a ton of threads about it, but it's an issue that's dominated my dating life is a major way for years.
dasein Posted November 23, 2011 Posted November 23, 2011 .... Ehhhhh, full disclosure, most of the threads I've started have probably focused around physical attractiveness and guys' attitudes towards it. I wouldn't say I've made a ton of threads about it, but it's an issue that's dominated my dating life is a major way for years. I've seen your threads, if and when you ever get up to ten threads on the issue, they start to get tiresome, until then it's just rantymcranterson, which is fine.
Feelsgoodman Posted November 23, 2011 Posted November 23, 2011 Exactly. I want to be valued for both. But it doesn't work that way in real life.
Author verhrzn Posted November 23, 2011 Author Posted November 23, 2011 But it doesn't work that way in real life. So for me, eternal singlehood and resentment towards hot girls, who get relationships but are never appreciated "for their minds." Got it.
Cracker Jack Posted November 23, 2011 Posted November 23, 2011 I'm curious as to what it is you're trying to hear from people. I can understand ranting, but is there anything specific you want to hear from the posters without taking everything to the extreme like your above post? I can assure you that resenting someone won't do anything good for you, as I'm sure you already know. It's a complete waste of time.
Els Posted November 23, 2011 Posted November 23, 2011 No, I wouldn't necessarily want a guy who judged me entirely on how I looked (though I'd LOVE to have a guy who was really attracted to my looks. Oh how nice that would be.) My thing is, the only type of single guys out there seem to be all about looks. Sure, it's possible I'm just "meeting the wrong guys".... but I've never been sure what to do with that advice. I mean, what, are all the "good" guys squirreled away in some remote location? I've tried conventions, common friends, work, everywhere I can think of that is not a bar to meet guys, and all of them are the "pining after the hottest chick" type. So while I don't WANT that kind of guy, if that's the only guy available, then what? Eternal singledom? Well, the first advice that I usually give people is that if they want to be valued for more than their looks, then they must value others for more than their looks, too. But seeing as you are open to dating overweight men, etc, I don't think this is necessarily your problem. And indeed this appears to be the point of your rant - that those men are being hypocritical in this manner. How about different locations, meeting guys from online, etc? It could just be the male demographic at your work place affecting this; while some geeks are great guys and can make really good bfs, others may lack relationship experience and still be in the 'I want to date Megan Fox!' delusionary phase that they haven't weened themselves off of yet since their lonely teens. You perpetually mention wanting a guy to be 'really attracted to you physically', and you want him to express it. Have you left relationships or disqualified men because of this before? Some men simply don't place much emphasis on looks. They aren't 'settling' if they go out with the 'less hot girl', they really just don't care about that aspect all that much.
Feelsgoodman Posted November 23, 2011 Posted November 23, 2011 So for me, eternal singlehood and resentment towards hot girls, who get relationships but are never appreciated "for their minds." Got it. Well, look at the bright side. You can now become a feminist author and write scathing social commentary on subjects like patriarchy and the glass ceiling
Author verhrzn Posted November 23, 2011 Author Posted November 23, 2011 Well, the first advice that I usually give people is that if they want to be valued for more than their looks, then they must value others for more than their looks, too. But seeing as you are open to dating overweight men, etc, I don't think this is necessarily your problem. And indeed this appears to be the point of your rant - that those men are being hypocritical in this manner. How about different locations, meeting guys from online, etc? It could just be the male demographic at your work place affecting this; while some geeks are great guys and can make really good bfs, others may lack relationship experience and still be in the 'I want to date Megan Fox!' delusionary phase that they haven't weened themselves off of yet since their lonely teens. You perpetually mention wanting a guy to be 'really attracted to you physically', and you want him to express it. Have you left relationships or disqualified men because of this before? Some men simply don't place much emphasis on looks. They aren't 'settling' if they go out with the 'less hot girl', they really just don't care about that aspect all that much. I haven't left or disqualified men... They've left me. The last guy I casually dated told me after 6 months that he liked my personality, but found me physically unattractive (met him online.) The guy before that, who I monogamously dated for 6 months, would go on and on about how my friend was hotter, his ex was hotter, his crush in Australia was cuter... but that was okay, he didn't mind settling, because hot girls didn't go for him anyway! (Met him through mutual friends.) Heck, most of the guys I've dated have made it clear I was bottom-of-the-barrel looks wise, but that my personality "made up" for it. Yeah, my rant is mostly about hypocrisy. And it's partially to address something I'm noticing both in my personal life, and here on the LS board... guys who are absolutely convinced that dating is so easy for women, that all you need to be is "not fat/a monster," and that they somehow have the market cornered on "I'm discriminated against for my looks." It gets annoying and painful to be called a liar or flat out ignored as guys like this do the very thing to me that they're complaining is being done to them.
Eternal Sunshine Posted November 23, 2011 Posted November 23, 2011 (edited) I can sort of relate. My current bf has told me a few times how he loves my personality and how much closer I am to his personality ideal (that I am pretty much his ideal) than I am to his looks ideal, but that's OK, because it is not possible to have everything. Whenver I remember those words, I feel like he has stabbed me in the heart The guy before him though was the other way around. He told me that he doesn't feel the personality click but that I am pretty much his looks ideal. It didn't really feel any better. Is there even a guy that will like me for both? Edited November 23, 2011 by Eternal Sunshine
jobaba Posted November 23, 2011 Posted November 23, 2011 I can sort of relate. My current bf has told me a few times how he loves my personality and how much closer I am to his personality ideal (that I am pretty much his ideal) than I am to his looks ideal, but that's OK, because it is not possible to have everything. Whenver I remember those words, I feel like he has stabbed me in the heart The guy before him though was the other way around. He told me that he doesn't feel the personality click but that I am pretty much his looks ideal. It didn't really feel any better. Is there even a guy that will like me for both? I'm not sure why somebody would say that even if it were true. My ex girlfriend used to say crap somewhat similar to that too, and I was like, "You know, you don't have to say that to me. Keep it to yourself." God, people suck. When I'm gaga for a girl and her qualities, I feel like she's the most beautiful girl in the world. I was seriously gaga for this girl not long ago, and to me she was more beautiful than Jessica Alba. I would've taken her over Jessica in a heartbeat (discounting Jessica Alba's millions). Sometimes I think I was born on the wrong planet.
Els Posted November 23, 2011 Posted November 23, 2011 I haven't left or disqualified men... They've left me. The last guy I casually dated told me after 6 months that he liked my personality, but found me physically unattractive (met him online.) The guy before that, who I monogamously dated for 6 months, would go on and on about how my friend was hotter, his ex was hotter, his crush in Australia was cuter... but that was okay, he didn't mind settling, because hot girls didn't go for him anyway! (Met him through mutual friends.) Heck, most of the guys I've dated have made it clear I was bottom-of-the-barrel looks wise, but that my personality "made up" for it. Yeah, my rant is mostly about hypocrisy. And it's partially to address something I'm noticing both in my personal life, and here on the LS board... guys who are absolutely convinced that dating is so easy for women, that all you need to be is "not fat/a monster," and that they somehow have the market cornered on "I'm discriminated against for my looks." It gets annoying and painful to be called a liar or flat out ignored as guys like this do the very thing to me that they're complaining is being done to them. Aww, I feel you, I really do. To be fair, though, I've known several women who practised this same sort of hypocrisy, although I've noticed it more in men. I don't think the men you mention really did not care about appearances, though - if someone genuinely doesn't care, they're not going to be going on and on about how everyone was 'hotter' than you, or that you're 'scraping the bottom of the barrel' look-wise! Eww. Assuming you're not exaggerating, those are horrible things to say to a person, period, what more a person you love. As I have told SD, I really don't think strangers on a forum can assess what your 'problem' is. Have you tried asking some of your male friends candidly? That pretty much ruins your chance with those men in particular, but could set you up for others.
SteveC80 Posted November 23, 2011 Posted November 23, 2011 Somethings up here your not bad looking at all theres women much uglier then you in relationships it cant be that I also dont know any guys who would be that upfront and mean and tell you they arent attracted to you,my guess is because of your insecurities you questioned and badgered them till they came out and said it Hard for me to believe all these guys just came out and said it out of nowhere
A O Posted November 23, 2011 Posted November 23, 2011 How do you tell whiney guys to shut it? You don't - you just ignore them. .
Lonely Ronin Posted November 23, 2011 Posted November 23, 2011 The last guy I casually dated told me after 6 months that he liked my personality, but found me physically unattractive (met him online.) This can happen to anyone, was he at least a gentlemen when he told you? The guy before that, who I monogamously dated for 6 months, would go on and on about how my friend was hotter, his ex was hotter, his crush in Australia was cuter... but that was okay, he didn't mind settling, because hot girls didn't go for him anyway! (Met him through mutual friends.) this guy is a douchebag. Heck, most of the guys I've dated have made it clear I was bottom-of-the-barrel looks wise, but that my personality "made up" for it. stop dating douchebags. anyone that's got the balls to say or even imply "I'm settling for you", isn't worth your time.
ChessPieceFace Posted November 23, 2011 Posted November 23, 2011 (edited) I have plenty going on in my life. I volunteer at museums, I do belly dancing and martial arts, I usually go out at least once a month with a group of friends for different "theme" party nights (We dress as pirates or Jedis or Apocalypse survivors, etc.) as well as going to nerd conventions and doing normal "work" socializing and on-my-own hobbies like reading and video games. Exactly what threshold of "something going on" do I need before a guy will like me? What I'm seeing overall is that you treat men as the enemy. After all, these guys don't know the hot new girl at all, and yet are falling all over themselves to meet her. So again, seems you want easy attention more than an actual relationship. And what good exactly would it do to ask any of these guys out? Even if they said yes, it's obvious they're not into me... because if they were, wouldn't they have asked me out already? Um.. no? Who knows? Why do you assume that every guy who likes you or would possibly like you would ask you out? Especially geeky guys who may have anxiety about those types of things. That's why the whole "oh women should totally ask guys out" thing falls flat on its face. If a guy likes a girl, he asks her out... Again not true, not sure where you're getting this from. You're living under wrong assumptions and then making false conclusions based on them, conclusions which are making you miserable. I don't care whether you date someone at work or anyone at all, but you're wrong to think "if a guy doesn't approach me he isn't interested." or even if he's shy, he makes some attempt to get close to her. (Like these guys asking for me to introduce them.) These guys have made NO such overtures with me. So, why exactly would I want to ask out a guy who has made it clear he is not interested in me at all? You again confuse pointless physical attraction with anything meaningful. Besides, you admit yourself that you give attention and focus on looks first... I focus on looks when looks are the only thing I know about someone. That lasts all of several minutes. I can even cite a specific recent instance proving that you're wrong. I was recently at a social event with 2 women of interest. One was quite hot but aggressive and amoral. The other was below average looks, but hung out with geeks and seemed compatible with my interests. I talked to the second one and had no interest in talking to the first one. AND the second one even had a BF, so it was a super long shot to even do that; just getting my foot in the door basically. Point being, I wouldn't waste my time talking to a "hot" girl who I would never be interested in a relationship with. most of the guys I've dated have made it clear I was bottom-of-the-barrel looks wise, but that my personality "made up" for it. Post more pics so we can give you a more accurate assessment then. Your profile pic seems to make you look cute, if that is representative then I don't understand what universe these guys are living in. Pretty much everything except the negative ones? You have responded to 3 people on this thread so far - Woggle, ChessPieceFace, and another that I forget - all of whom made incendiary posts. Incendiary, lol. My posts were actually very fair, they contained criticism but also help. What is telling, though, is that only the criticism was quoted or responded to. As others have said, this behavior of focusing on the negative and being argumentative is probably indicative of her IRL behavior, and part of the real problem. If her avatar is indeed her picture, she has no problem with looks, so it's something else. And no, it's not "the world" that is the problem here. Edited November 23, 2011 by ChessPieceFace
Chubbi Posted November 23, 2011 Posted November 23, 2011 Are you nerdy guys type? You may not simply be nerdy guys type, if that makes any sense. I think nerdy men like a certain type of woman: either a fantasy "dream" girl or a bitchy, controlling girl. Nerdy men also like aggressive women, which I'm not. When I say nerdy, I mean the computer science crowd, not average joes. I have found that I simply have more luck with alpha and goodlooking men than I do with nerdy men. Maybe you will too.
OnyxSnowfall Posted November 23, 2011 Posted November 23, 2011 verhrzn, what I have learned........... is indeed that the "nerdy/geeky" types do tend to truly want the exceptionally hot and steamy girl. Why? Perhaps because she can validate him and with her, he finally make other men envious of him Such tend to crave superficial things in order to keep their insecure appetites at bay........... In any case, regardless of what "type" a person seems to be....... I think it's extremely difficult to find a man that has good values. **** the ones that don't. Seriously. They will leave you in pieces, whether they covet your looks or your personality............... or even both.... I'd commiserate with you if you lived closer lol.
Els Posted November 23, 2011 Posted November 23, 2011 (edited) verhrzn, what I have learned........... is indeed that the "nerdy/geeky" types do tend to truly want the exceptionally hot and steamy girl. Why? Perhaps because she can validate him and with her, he finally make other men envious of him Such tend to crave superficial things in order to keep their insecure appetites at bay........... In any case, regardless of what "type" a person seems to be....... I think it's extremely difficult to find a man that has good values. **** the ones that don't. Seriously. They will leave you in pieces, whether they covet your looks or your personality............... or even both.... I'd commiserate with you if you lived closer lol. Are you nerdy guys type? You may not simply be nerdy guys type, if that makes any sense. I think nerdy men like a certain type of woman: either a fantasy "dream" girl or a bitchy, controlling girl. Nerdy men also like aggressive women, which I'm not. When I say nerdy, I mean the computer science crowd, not average joes. I have found that I simply have more luck with alpha and goodlooking men than I do with nerdy men. Maybe you will too. I think it's pretty unfair to generalize all geeky males in that manner. I'm sure there are male geeks who act the way you two described, but IMO there also are some who truly appreciate having a female geek by their side, as well. I'm a very normal-looking girl, and I'm pretty sure I'm not aggressive (except perhaps ingame) . Most of the guys I've dated are geeks, and I'd trade them for no other. Some things they do get frustrating on occasion, but they share my passions, they 'get' me and me them, our conversations puzzle everyone else but make me smile, and they tend to be highly intellectual. None of them have ever done to me what the OP's guys did to her. Current bf wants me to wear whatever I feel comfortable in, and thinks makeup and hairstyling are trends popularized by beauty/cosmetic companies to earn more moolah. That being said, seeing as the men in the OP's company are not right for her, she certainly should be trying others instead. Edited November 23, 2011 by Elswyth
Taramere Posted November 23, 2011 Posted November 23, 2011 (edited) I don't want to hate the hot new girl, as she's perfectly pleasant and nice, and heck, I was the one who pushed her through... but I feel so jealous and resentful not only of all the attention she gets, but that all she has to do is know the very basics of computers and guys are "OMG a nerd girl!" I've spent my entire life trying to earn the respect of fellow geeks, and I feel like I'm still being denied that.... because at the end of the day, all that seems to matter as a woman is whether or not you're hot. From your perspective, the reason all these men want an introduction to your new work friend is because she's hot and they want into her pants. Which is probably correct, but doesn't change the fact that it's good manners, and the correct professional approach, to introduce a new person you've befriended at work to colleagues. Put aside any female rivalry thing and consider things from her perspective for a moment. She's in a new working environment, and people want introduced to her because she's "hot". Regardless of how informal and friendly your working environment is, that's not a professional reason for anybody to offer, for being introduced to a new colleague. Even if you feel envious of the attention she's getting, from her perspective being viewed in this gape-mouthed, drooling way in her new place of work probably isn't a great, or very comfortable, start. I'd be saying something like "I'm happy to introduce X to people in the company and intend to do so...but as a colleague, not as a potential date. If you're after her romantically - then leave me out of it." That doesn't address the problem of how you feel...and I don't think anything can. Nobody likes to be treated as less worthy of attention, but it's something you just have to learn to handle with grace. I think introducing her to others with the thought in mind that she is their new colleague (and not the new hot girl they all want a piece of) is the correct professional and respectful response to this situation. Edited November 23, 2011 by Taramere
betterdeal Posted November 23, 2011 Posted November 23, 2011 What does she say about it? Most of the pretty women I've known have been insecure that men want to get to know them just for sex and women dislike them for being competition, which makes them quite lonely in some respects. There's an opportunity here to form a good friendship with her, if you so wish, and asking her if she's cool with you introducing her would seem like a good way to broach the subject. In a way, you are being harassed (although pestered is probably more accurate) and maybe you can get some sisterly support in dealing with it.
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