How To Tell Whiny Guys To Shut It

[joystickd]

Why do some people always go to this idea that I MUST be ignoring less attractive guys? That I must be a hypocrite who only goes for guys out of my league? There AREN'T guys interested in me, unattractive or otherwise. Now, maybe the guys I'm interested in are out of my league... but if pasty, chubby nerds with glasses are out of my league, well then what exactly am I left with?

 

Why is it so inconceivable that there are girls no guys find attractive? Why is it so hard to believe that a girl can be not a total monster and still not have guys who want her... is it some sort of projection, that guys tell themselves it's perfectly fine to ignore the average chick and go for the hot girl, since the average chick is just as shallow as them?

What do you look like? I'm just curious. A lot of it has to do with that she is new.

[SteveC80]

Although the average girl has a better chance of dating (or at least being used by) the alpha male because of male and female motives. But you are right. It's pretty amazing how shallow and materialistic the vast majority are when it comes to dating. I mean, this is someone you might spend the rest of your life with...

 

No offnese but its mostly unattratcive people who complain about looks being imporant,im sorry they are

 

No it isnt everyhtinh but animal lust is a key part of a relationship,i cant go out with a owmen im kind of blah on physically, if lust and physical atraction wasnt a big deal then there would be no reaosn for men adn women just t obe freidns because all it would take for a relationship is common interest and to get along which we know isnt true

[rocketboy9]

You are an attractive woman. Here is the reality if you are a geek kind of girl you are going to mostly appeal to geek kind of guys. If you have been around all these guys for a while they just regard you as sexless coworker. You are just one of the guys at this point. YOU need to change how they view IF that is what you want.

 

Just realize there are downsides to playing this angle.

 

I can speak from experience as I work in IT but was never the arch typical geek - I dont like science or math and was never good at it. I can barely add . I have never been into science fiction, fantasy, dungeons and dragons, video games or anything typical computer geeks like. I realized very early on I was not meant to sit behind a computer all day programming. Thats not me.

 

I had a difficult time relating to all the typical geek things as I was not really one of them. I started college as an art major and was into painting and drawing. And of course music. I got into IT because of the $$.

 

I remember being in projects where there were 15 men and 1 woman. Lots of odd guys with very strange social skills and lets just say "interesting" hobbies. You are like the odd man out in situations like this.

 

Now if this other woman is really attractive, for computer geeks this is the equivalent of putting out catnip to them. They may never have her but they will do their thing and flirt around just because she is there. Eventually over time this will die down. Just realize all men love attractive women, especially women that will flirt with them. These IT people are not used to this in a work environment.

 

If you want their attention you need to stop behaving like one of the boys or a geek and more like a feminine kind of woman, wear makeup, dress cute, be coy and smell great. You will have them eating out of your hand!

 

Does this mean changing who you are? To a degree yes but it also means changing how they perceive you.

 

Just be forewarned the first time you come into work dressed more feminine it will cause minor hysteria in your company.

 

Trust me on this. Now go to work.

[PlumPrincess]

Welcome to the world we live in, people are hypocrites. Next time convince your hiring panel to take on the obese, face like a troll girl instead of the attractive one if you don't want to be upstaged.

I don't think I would do that anymore either. Being fair sometimes meant placing myself in an unnecessarily unfavorable position and I don't think I would do that again. In this case, she is pretty, she would have easily found a job somewhere else.

 

but I set my personal feelings aside and convinced the other people on the panel she would be a good candidate for the position.

Did you do it in order to prove to yourself and others that you are an honorable person? Because to me it looks a bit as if you are masochistic. If the others didn't think she was good enough, why go and convince them despite your personal objections that she was? Allow yourself to feel jealous if you are. One day, you will feel on your own that it was not worth it.

[verhrzn]

There is nothing wrong whatsoever about how you look but you do come across as a man hater which will make a man turn away if he senses it. No man wants to deal with a woman that hates his gender.

 

How in the world am I a man hater?? Men come onto this board all the time and complain about how women reject them based on their height/looks, and you've said yourself that women are "man haters" for not having empathy to these guys. I come on here complaining about the exact same thing (that men are interested in a girl primarily for her looks) and somehow I'm a man hater? I really don't follow your logic.

[Woggle]

How in the world am I a man hater?? Men come onto this board all the time and complain about how women reject them based on their height/looks, and you've said yourself that women are "man haters" for not having empathy to these guys. I come on here complaining about the exact same thing (that men are interested in a girl primarily for her looks) and somehow I'm a man hater? I really don't follow your logic.

 

I do remember one thread I posted where a woman was saying men deserve to get cheated on and you sort of agreed with her.

[ChessPieceFace]

Actually I think I was the one who first suggested the possibility. But it was based on your topic if nothing else. "How to tell WHINY GUYS to SHUT IT"? That's an offensive title right off the bat. However it's one instance and maybe out of anger.

 

You failed to respond to any of my brilliant points though, so I don't know why I'm bothering any further.

[dasein]

Once more, why are these weak sisters at work slithering up to OP and expecting -her- to do their approaching for them? I'd have something a little more colorful than "shut it" to say to such guys.

[jobaba]

How in the world am I a man hater?? Men come onto this board all the time and complain about how women reject them based on their height/looks, and you've said yourself that women are "man haters" for not having empathy to these guys. I come on here complaining about the exact same thing (that men are interested in a girl primarily for her looks) and somehow I'm a man hater? I really don't follow your logic.

 

It's OK to be bitter. I understand the position you are in. I have also had to face rejection and marginalization in the dating game like you, me, and others.

 

Just remember that everybody is not like that (shallow) because you are not and I am not either.

 

And there are others too.

 

Also, work your self esteem some. I've worked on mine over the years, but it was never as bad as yours.

[neowulf]

Well, as someone who works in IT, with a single stunningly attractive co-worker who just started in the office, I feel I can relate to this situation

 

The posts regarding "Friend Zoning" are right on the money in my mind.

 

There are basically 3 young, attractive women in my office.

 

Two of them wear plain T-shirts, jeans and no make up. They do everything they can to down play their assets, even though both are quite attractive.

 

The third (the "hot" one), is *always* dressed immaculately. She wears make up, has her hair made up. The works. She looks amazing. Because she makes the conscious choice to do so.

 

Sure, she's gifted with natural looks, but a lot of it is simply in the way she presents.

 

I agree with the other posters. You are an attractive young woman. You just need to put that fact on display, instead of downplaying it

 

As an experiment, for a month.. come into work dressed like you're going on a date with a guy you're *really* attracted too.

 

I think you'll be amazed at the results

[Els]

Seeing as you have only responded to the negative posts, here, verhzhn, (and that was my impression on the other threads you made, too) do you feel that that habit carries over into real life?

[verhrzn]

You failed to respond to any of my brilliant points though, so I don't know why I'm bothering any further.

 

Fine. At the risk of further being labeled as a whining man-hater, I'll oblige.

 

Since you don't have guys falling all over you, what you really need is personality, positivity and something going on in your life. Same as what a guy needs.

 

Seems like you are the one whining, that you don't have date offers and attention flying at you without any effort. It's 2011, you don't have to sit at home waiting for some guy to ask you out. You are perfectly capable of doing so, of taking control of your life and trying to get what you want.

 

I have plenty going on in my life. I volunteer at museums, I do belly dancing and martial arts, I usually go out at least once a month with a group of friends for different "theme" party nights (We dress as pirates or Jedis or Apocalypse survivors, etc.) as well as going to nerd conventions and doing normal "work" socializing and on-my-own hobbies like reading and video games. Exactly what threshold of "something going on" do I need before a guy will like me?

 

And apparently personality is NOT enough. That's what my post is all about. The guys at my work seem to like my personality just fine. But because I'm not hot.... After all, these guys don't know the hot new girl at all, and yet are falling all over themselves to meet her.

 

And what good exactly would it do to ask any of these guys out? Even if they said yes, it's obvious they're not into me... because if they were, wouldn't they have asked me out already?

 

That's why the whole "oh women should totally ask guys out" thing falls flat on its face. If a guy likes a girl, he asks her out... or even if he's shy, he makes some attempt to get close to her. (Like these guys asking for me to introduce them.) These guys have made NO such overtures with me. So, why exactly would I want to ask out a guy who has made it clear he is not interested in me at all?

 

Besides, you admit yourself that you give attention and focus on looks first... So having male interests is only a bonus if the guy thinks you're hot. Otherwise, it's just the female version of the Friend Zone.

[verhrzn]

Seeing as you have only responded to the negative posts, here, verhzhn, (and that was my impression on the other threads you made, too) do you feel that that habit carries over into real life?

 

What positive posts exactly am I ignoring?

[ptp]

Seeing as you have only responded to the negative posts, here, verhzhn, (and that was my impression on the other threads you made, too) do you feel that that habit carries over into real life?

 

I have said something very similar to verhzhn before.

 

She only responds to negative posts, while choosing to ignore all the positive things people on LS say about her.

 

I have a hard time believing that kind of attitude doesn't bleed over into RL.

[Els]

What positive posts exactly am I ignoring?

 

Pretty much everything except the negative ones? You have responded to 3 people on this thread so far - Woggle, ChessPieceFace, and another that I forget - all of whom made incendiary posts. See, my current post is getting attention because it's incendiary. All of the others who sympathized with you, offered constructive advice and reassurance (eg betterdeal) received no response. I mean, it's a forum and you can do what you like, but this isn't the only thread I've seen you do this on, so I was wondering if you only respond to negative attention IRL as well.

 

Well, as someone who works in IT, with a single stunningly attractive co-worker who just started in the office, I feel I can relate to this situation

 

The posts regarding "Friend Zoning" are right on the money in my mind.

 

There are basically 3 young, attractive women in my office.

 

Two of them wear plain T-shirts, jeans and no make up. They do everything they can to down play their assets, even though both are quite attractive.

 

The third (the "hot" one), is *always* dressed immaculately. She wears make up, has her hair made up. The works. She looks amazing. Because she makes the conscious choice to do so.

 

Sure, she's gifted with natural looks, but a lot of it is simply in the way she presents.

 

I agree with the other posters. You are an attractive young woman. You just need to put that fact on display, instead of downplaying it

 

As an experiment, for a month.. come into work dressed like you're going on a date with a guy you're *really* attracted too.

 

I think you'll be amazed at the results

 

The thing is that the men in IT don't exactly come into work with their hair styled to the nines and abs bursting out of their fashionable shirts. I really do not see why a woman in IT should have to spend hours before work each day doing up her hair and makeup, to attract the usually geeky and sometimes overweight and almost always dressed-down men that dominate the IT sector.

[somedude81]

verhrzn, do you complain to anybody IRL about your dating troubles or how men choose the hot girls, stuff like that?

[verhrzn]

Pretty much everything except the negative ones? You have responded to 3 people on this thread so far - Woggle, ChessPieceFace, and another that I forget - all of whom made incendiary posts. See, my current post is getting attention because it's incendiary. All of the others who sympathized with you, offered constructive advice and reassurance (eg betterdeal) received no response. I mean, it's a forum and you can do what you like, but this isn't the only thread I've seen you do this on, so I was wondering if you only respond to negative attention IRL as well.

 

Well I guess I don't often respond to posters who sympathize with me, cause what can I say beyond "thanks person who gets it," though I do appreciate it.

 

I guess I just don't agree with some of the, um, constructive advice, and so don't respond because I don't want to appear argumentative, and it's not BAD advice. Betterdeal had some good advice... but I don't have the balls to pull off anything he suggested. I did try telling one guy to just do it himself, and I got an earful about how I'm not being a good wing-man.

 

verhrzn, do you complain to anybody IRL about your dating troubles or how men choose the hot girls, stuff like that?

 

Yes. The responses fall into two camps: 1) male friends who then turn it into a contest about how they have it SO much worse and girls have it SO easy, and the only reason I'm having problems is because of some vague, bland reason like "Well it's cause you don't wear make-up" when I'm wearing make-up at that very moment or 2) my female friends rolling their eyes and telling me to stop whining, being single is no big deal, as they continue texting their boyfriends.

[Els]

Fair enough. Do you feel that IRL you do the same thing, ie not respond to people who try being empathic with you? Just a little hint: You train people in how they respond to you, by how you respond to them. If you don't respond to those being nice to you and trying to help you, but only those flaming you, eventually the former will decrease.

 

I think you need to make two adjustments here:

 

1) You need to stop letting them take advantage of your friendship. You're like the little-brother guy who hangs around all the time and comforts girls when they cry because their bf (whom they chose over him) was an ass to them. Firmly let them know that you're not there to help them with the women they choose to court while they ignore you. You're NOT a wingman, for chrissakes.

 

2) You should probably stop complaining to people IRL about all that. Assuming you do it a lot, nobody likes a debbie-downer. The same goes to men who do that *cough, cough*

[threebyfate]

verhrzn, I don't understand your perspective. Have you any idea what it's like to be valued for looks and not much else? It's seriously objectifying.

 

"Oh yeah, so another dude wants to screw. Whoopy do."

[somedude81]

Yes. The responses fall into two camps: 1) male friends who then turn it into a contest about how they have it SO much worse and girls have it SO easy, and the only reason I'm having problems is because of some vague, bland reason like "Well it's cause you don't wear make-up" when I'm wearing make-up at that very moment or 2) my female friends rolling their eyes and telling me to stop whining, being single is no big deal, as they continue texting their boyfriends.

 

 

2) You should probably stop complaining to people IRL about all that. Assuming you do it a lot, nobody likes a debbie-downer.

 

You cannot complain to guys.

 

Verhrzn your looks are fine, but I've been getting the impression that it's your personality that is turning guys off. That's why I asked if you do complain in IRL. Men are going to see you as bitter and depressed and they want nothing to do with it, no matter how hot a woman is.

 

You want to increase your chances with men? Look your best, be fun and perky, don't complain.

The same goes to men who do that *cough, cough*

Elswyth, the only girl I have ever talked to in real life about my troubles with women, was the girl I was chasing for so long. That's it. And she doesn't have a clue how bitter I am.

 

The only place I vent my frustrations is online. I don't talk about dating or women etc with people IRL.

[Els]

Well, that's good to know.

 

I don't think it's wrong per se for the OP to mention her opinions; if a man actually talks to her about how unhappy he is that 'all the girls are shallow and superficial' while he actually means "that hot girl that I have been lusting after is shallow and superficial", I don't see a problem in her pointing out the flaw in his logic. Otherwise, certainly one should not be a complainer in front of the people one is trying to attract.

 

I don't think it's fair of you to tell the OP that it's just her personality that is the problem, though, SD - haven't you gotten upset when people have told you the same thing? I am sure there are parts of the OP's personality that could be improved.. that is true for everyone. But there is no point in dismissing the fact that yes, I am sure there are men who pass over the OP for the 'hot girl' purely because the other girl is, well, hotter. Just as I am sure there are women who pass over a 5'6" man for a 6'0" one. Why deny it?

 

The crux of the issue is, though, do either of you WANT the men and women who do that? Sadly they do constitute a large part of society, but I have personally never seen the point of getting with people who prioritize appearances so much. Even if the OP does spend hours dressing up, doing her hair and makeup before work to look her best (and attract the men who are themselves turning up in ratty tees and jeans and uncombed hair)... then what? That man would still be choosing a woman based on appearance - only this time it is her. What is going to happen, then, when she wants to lounge around at home in sweats and no makeup? A repeat of the 'gf isn't attractive when she doesn't wear makeup' thread, I wager. Why set yourself up for that?

Edited November 23, 2011 by Elswyth

[Feelsgoodman]

verhrzn, I don't understand your perspective. Have you any idea what it's like to be valued for looks and not much else? It's seriously objectifying.

 

"Oh yeah, so another dude wants to screw. Whoopy do."

Hot women want to be valued for their [usually non-existent] intelligence. Average and ugly women want to be seen as sexy. Funny how it works.

[neowulf]

The thing is that the men in IT don't exactly come into work with their hair styled to the nines and abs bursting out of their fashionable shirts. I really do not see why a woman in IT should have to spend hours before work each day doing up her hair and makeup, to attract the usually geeky and sometimes overweight and almost always dressed-down men that dominate the IT sector.

 

Well, a women doesn't have too. The OP was complaining she doesn't get the same attention as the "Hot" girl in the office. I was simply offering some sure fire advice to improve the situation.

 

It's been said time and again, but it stands to be repeated. Men are visual creatures. They *like* looking at pretty, well dressed, attractive women.

 

No one suggested it was "fair" or "reasonable". It's just the way people are wired. You can take advantage of it, or not.

[Els]

Fair enough. I don't agree that all men overlook the simply-dressed woman, though - I think it's just a matter of finding the right ones for oneself.

[verhrzn]

Well, a women doesn't have too. The OP was complaining she doesn't get the same attention as the "Hot" girl in the office. I was simply offering some sure fire advice to improve the situation.

 

It's been said time and again, but it stands to be repeated. Men are visual creatures. They *like* looking at pretty, well dressed, attractive women.

 

No one suggested it was "fair" or "reasonable". It's just the way people are wired. You can take advantage of it, or not.

 

If that's the way men are wired, then I suppose it'd be appropriate to give up hope of a relationship, and I'd just have to accept it...... What gets me, though, is guys who complain about women doing the exact same thing.

 

There have been so so so many male friends of mine who sit there and complain about not being hot or wealthy enough for women, but then dismissing any girl showing interest in them that isn't top-shelf material.

 

It then also gets under my skin when the very same guy claims he himself is NOT shallow, and is all about liking a girl's personality. Sure, he would probably prefer a girl whose personality he liked... so long as she was hot first.