Women who won't open up at all

[fortyninethousand322]

Irc333: Have you ever had a girlfriend? Or a long term relationship?

 

I don't think he has(if I recall one of his threads correctly), but that's not really his fault though. He can't be blamed for his inexperience.

[NYC-BigKat]

They aren't so much sick of being asked out. They are probably tired of a guys who don't know how to back off when she says no. As a guy, most won't understand teh concept of how it feels to deal with full on aggressive male behavior with multiple men. Currently, I am consistently turning down 4 different guys. 2 I work with, the others are friends from different activities. I have resorted to pulling the bf card and almost ignoring them. I do not relish hurting a guy's feelings by being overly blunt.

 

It is truly exhausting telling the same men over and over that you are not interested without being a bitch. They don't respect your boundaries, and that's frustrating. So you put up your wall to keep any more of these would be suitors out.

 

I'm starting to believe that women just dont want men anymore

[Star Gazer]

I don't think he has(if I recall one of his threads correctly), but that's not really his fault though. He can't be blamed for his inexperience.

 

Umm, who else is to blame??

[Star Gazer]

They want some men. Just not me and maybe not you.

 

EXACTLY.

 

And the OP would be better served in figuring out what HE can do to attract a woman, rather than analyze them to death and "blame" them for his lack of inexperience.

[fortyninethousand322]

Umm, who else is to blame??

 

No one. Not everything is caused by someone else. Sometimes things just happen (or don't happen) and it's nobody's fault.

 

It's not like he hasn't met women. Remember his thread about him going on a date with a girl who didn't like the fact that he'd never been in a relationship before?

 

Just because you've never had a dating difficulty in your life doesn't mean everyone else has lived on easy street with you.

[insertnamehere]

Maybe she's a lesbian. It's possible, you know.

 

As a person who spent most of his life as a socially awkward person, this is one of the more offensive things I've read. When I was teenager, I had a hard time socializing, but a fair number of girls liked me. Several of the girls were actually the most in-demand in our school. And eventually everyone settled on "gay" as the explanation for why I wasn't jumping at girls they would kill to have.

 

Thing is, before puberty I was fat and geeky (this is before autism spectrum disorders became a thing). I came from a poor family. I assimilated with the outsider set. Even the girls in our peer group were the freaks that nobody wanted to **** in high school (in fact, to this day I still have a thing for slightly odd-looking girls with mohawks and ****ty attitudes).

 

Of course, puberty came and when that happens you're supposed to collect your winnings and declare yourself awesome if you won like I did. But, by that point I was so socially maladjusted that the idea that any girl wanted to be with me was easy to reject out of hand.

 

So, anyhow . . . that's my best luggage. Point being, don't dismiss a person who doesn't instantly want to hump you as homosexual. Some people just aren't properly socialized.

 

I've turned down millionaires... they put their pants on just like anyone else.

 

This does hit on a key problem men have when looking at women.

 

Men think there's a check list. Men tend to think that once they've achieved a passing score on that check list that women should automatically open up to them.

 

Men have a hard that finding that emotional thread that it takes to pull a woman in to you.

 

The funny thing about that is that done right, you can find and pull that emotional thread and unravel a woman in no time at all. Where most guys get it wrong is that they're just sort of brute forcing the problem and hoping that it takes.

 

The truth is the only reason more women don't act aloof and suspicious is because they get tired of being alone and not getting laid.

[Star Gazer]

Just because you've never had a dating difficulty in your life doesn't mean everyone else has lived on easy street with you.

 

Define "dating difficulty"?

 

We all have our struggles; it's those who are actually capable and desirous of LEARNING rather than pointing fingers at the opposite sex that succeed.

[fortyninethousand322]

Define "dating difficulty"?

 

We all have our struggles; it's those who are actually capable and desirous of LEARNING rather than pointing fingers at the opposite sex that succeed.

 

Not always. Sure, those are nice attributes to have, but just like being a 6'10" 240 lb black guy with a sweet jumper won't guarantee you a spot on an NBA roster, neither will having those attributes guarantee you a date.

 

Notice how I said "no one" is to blame for his lack of dating experience, that means women aren't responsible and he's not either. Sometimes no matter how much you want to be successful at dating, you're just not going to be. You really should stop living in a fairy tale where everyone can be successful, because in the real world, not everyone can. And, as one gets older the lack of experience looms as a bigger and bigger red flag (even though it shouldn't) so it's entirely possible to wake up one day and be completely undate-able.

[Star Gazer]

That's horsecrap and you know it. You can't learn a ****ing thing if none of the population desires you.

 

Wrong. You can learn that it's not that something's wrong with every woman on the planet. There is a common denominator: you.

[daphne]

Could you share some more of exactly what they do in carrying on this persistence? Do you think it's because they have bad preconceived notions about persistence paying off?

 

Hmm. One guy keeps texting and asking to hang out, even though I repeatedly tell him I'm busy and I finally stopped responding. It's been months of this. The 2 work guys keep coming over and hanging out at my desk, even though I've thrown out the "I'm seeing someone" line. One of them keeps touching me, even though I've bluntly told him not to touch me. I'm almost hostile towards him, and he still keeps coming around. Another would persist in asking me out, even though he was married and I told him I thought it was inappropriate. However, to his credit he did back off eventually. I've had other married guys offer to buy me international tickets to "spend time" with them. One ended up stalking me and sent me an envelope of money. This guy was eventually fired. To this day he still emails me from different email addresses, even though I keep blocking him. He was fired about 4-5 years ago and sent me birthday cards every year. Another kept trying to contact me for a year, while implying to mutual friends that we were in a relationship. These last 2 are kind of the worst case scenario. Both of whom I had to resort to telling them I did not want to ever hear from them again. It seems that for some, rejection is an aphrodisiac.

 

I'm starting to believe that women just dont want men anymore

 

That's a big leap. I want to choose who I want to be with. And that's not a guy who doesn't take no for an answer. Not a married guy. Not a pushy guy who thinks that what he wants is more important than what I want, which is not him.

 

The guy I do want gets the green light, responsiveness and he's not pushy at all. It's pretty simple. If she says yes to when you ask her out, she's probably interested.

[daphne]

I don't believe a word of your message.

 

I don't care.

[Lonely Ronin]

I hope you carry Mace, or a taser in your purse.

 

Hmm. One guy keeps texting and asking to hang out, even though I repeatedly tell him I'm busy and I finally stopped responding. It's been months of this. The 2 work guys keep coming over and hanging out at my desk, even though I've thrown out the "I'm seeing someone" line. One of them keeps touching me, even though I've bluntly told him not to touch me. I'm almost hostile towards him, and he still keeps coming around. Another would persist in asking me out, even though he was married and I told him I thought it was inappropriate. However, to his credit he did back off eventually. I've had other married guys offer to buy me international tickets to "spend time" with them. One ended up stalking me and sent me an envelope of money. This guy was eventually fired. To this day he still emails me from different email addresses, even though I keep blocking him. He was fired about 4-5 years ago and sent me birthday cards every year. Another kept trying to contact me for a year, while implying to mutual friends that we were in a relationship. These last 2 are kind of the worst case scenario. Both of whom I had to resort to telling them I did not want to ever hear from them again. It seems that for some, rejection is an aphrodisiac.

[oaks]

I hope you carry Mace, or a taser in your purse.

 

I'm guessing that Daphne has a stare that generally does the trick (along with a smile to melt your heart, of course).

[monkey00]

Who knows, persistence pays off sometimes and she could be one of those girls that require time and patience.

 

One time I met this girl at a speed-dating even, we both marked each other down at the end and I eventually got her e-mail/phone. I tried setting up dates but she would always give me the busy line, but she wouldn't be too busy to respond. If she had completely ignored me when I would get in touch, then obviously it would've been a waste of time and I would be the stalker. Eventually after a few weeks of this she gave in did her nails and we went on a date. After that my interest had completely plummeted and wondered what was so great about her. She contacted me a couple times afterwards but I didn't bother again.

 

I think a lot of times girls also have to have their 'shield' up to weed out the guys who are after just sex, and those who are genuine and interested in her as a person - going so far as LTR potential.

[dasein]

...One of them keeps touching me, even though I've bluntly told him not to touch me...

 

That's terrible, sorry you have to go through that. With the one above, time to go to HR IMO, that's exactly what those channels are set up to prevent. Maybe even same with the texter.

[grkBoy]

Hasn't EVERYONE been burned by someone they love at some point? Come on. That's not baggage, that's life. Baggage is more like kids, debt, drug problems, emotional problems and disorders etc. etc.

 

I agree that we've all been burned. I know this more than most people.

 

When I say "baggage" though, I more mean when those burnings didn't end up in "life lessons" but instead he/she carries those bad experiences around with them, and thus it makes things difficult socially.

 

It's like women I've met who are into guido douchebag types, but they fantasize about the idea of a "GTL guy" who is faithful, monogamous, a gentleman, etc.

 

So these women pursue a bunch of guys who never fit the fantasy, she gets hurt, but instead of rethinking who she's pursuing, she instead decides that all men are jerks and thus walks around with a dark cloud over her. ANY guy who talks to her she immediately thinks he just wants to "pump and dump" her.

 

That's baggage...and I wouldn't be surprised if the girl IRC333 is speaking of has some major baggage.

 

 

 

LEARNING LESSONS happen when the person learns from their own mistakes, and carries on through life positively, able to avoid making said mistakes. So suddenly the hypothetical girl I mentioned stops going after douchebags in nightclubs and instead meets an athletic guy at a charity run. The guy is athletic, but he isn't all "guido" and he ends up treating her right...etc.

[stillafool]

 

Men have a hard that finding that emotional thread that it takes to pull a woman in to you.

 

The funny thing about that is that done right, you can find and pull that emotional thread and unravel a woman in no time at all. Where most guys get it wrong is that they're just sort of brute forcing the problem and hoping that it takes.

 

The truth is the only reason more women don't act aloof and suspicious is because they get tired of being alone and not getting laid.

 

Exactly! The above is key in attacting women. Very few men realize this and even fewer know how.

[daphne]

I hope you carry Mace, or a taser in your purse.

 

I do. But sadly, I can't use it on the guys I work with. It's a lot easier to get away from guys you don't know. Much more difficult to be overly blunt at work with politics, or guys where you have mutual friends.

 

I'm guessing that Daphne has a stare that generally does the trick (along with a smile to melt your heart, of course).

 

He he. I don't know. I asked a friend how I come across when I'm setting a boundary with a guy and get mad. He said I'm cute and he wants to pat me on the head. sigh. Not as much of a bad ass as I thought.

 

That's terrible, sorry you have to go through that. With the one above, time to go to HR IMO, that's exactly what those channels are set up to prevent. Maybe even same with the texter.

 

I have stopped frequenting the place where texter hangs out and am ignoring him. A mutual friend told him I am seeing someone. Maybe he'll finally go silent.

 

Guy at work is trickier. I'd rather not go the HR route, because quite frankly HR doesn't really do anything to change it. It's a last resort. I have started making noise so that he gets embarrassed by it. He actually came to my desk to take photos of me the other day and I loudly told him it was inappropriate and he went away. I know the guys were thinking "wow, what an idiot."

[dasein]

Guy at work is trickier. I'd rather not go the HR route, because quite frankly HR doesn't really do anything to change it. It's a last resort. I have started making noise so that he gets embarrassed by it. He actually came to my desk to take photos of me the other day and I loudly told him it was inappropriate and he went away. I know the guys were thinking "wow, what an idiot."

 

This is exactly the kind of hostile workplace that the SH laws are designed to prevent. Does management have any idea of this? In all likelihood, you aren't the only person affected by this guy. After a point, it simply isn't your job to moderate a work environment that allows you to do your job without this type of stress and annoyance, that point is long past. I hope you consider going the HR route or speaking to someone in management about this. Understand your hesitance though.

[daphne]

This is exactly the kind of hostile workplace that the SH laws are designed to prevent. Does management have any idea of this? In all likelihood, you aren't the only person affected by this guy. After a point, it simply isn't your job to moderate a work environment that allows you to do your job without this type of stress and annoyance, that point is long past. I hope you consider going the HR route or speaking to someone in management about this. Understand your hesitance though.

 

I don't really work in an HR safe environment. It's male dominated. I have made several reports in the past. I've been kissed, massaged, touched, pestered, you name it at my job by no fewer than 10 different men. These are the men who don't go away when you let them know you're not interested.

 

There were two prevailing thoughts. They both lead to it being my fault. A) I'm an uptight prude that doesn't know how to have fun. B) I asked for it.

 

You'll see a similar train of thought on LS. A woman who gets a lot of attention is a tease or attention whore. It's archaic to me.

 

Once you've been targeted as a trouble maker, you're not all that ready to open you mouth again. Especially when women are pointing the finger at you too. And interestingly, it's the women who are putting out with the vp's/execs to get ahead.

[dasein]

What general field do you work in? The last office environment I saw anywhere near what you describe was in retail stock brokerage years ago.

 

If you have a documented history of notifying HR of such, and it continues, it may be lawsuit time. A company I worked at settled out of court for 1 mill for a single asspat that may have even been inadvertent (the guy was very old, shaky and half senile)... no witnesses either.

[daphne]

What general field do you work in? The last office environment I saw anywhere near what you describe was in retail stock brokerage years ago.

 

If you have a documented history of notifying HR of such, and it continues, it may be lawsuit time. A company I worked at settled out of court for 1 mill for a single asspat that may have even been inadvertent (the guy was very old, shaky and half senile)... no witnesses either.

 

LOL. I work in commodities but there are a lot of IT people. The former traders/brokers are the worst. They act entitled to get laid.

 

I'm not a very litigious person. I did speak with one of the top attorneys in the area in SH back when it was at its worst. He said I had a good case, not bullet proof, but encouraged me to do some soul searching if I could go through with it since I was really reluctant. I chose not to go that route because I was very loyal to the CEO.

[Alexz]

Hasn't EVERYONE been burned by someone they love at some point? Come on. That's not baggage, that's life. Baggage is more like kids, debt, drug problems, emotional problems and disorders etc. etc.

 

Very true.

[ThsAmericanLife]

This is exactly the kind of hostile workplace that the SH laws are designed to prevent. Does management have any idea of this? In all likelihood, you aren't the only person affected by this guy. After a point, it simply isn't your job to moderate a work environment that allows you to do your job without this type of stress and annoyance, that point is long past. I hope you consider going the HR route or speaking to someone in management about this. Understand your hesitance though.

 

Going to HR is not wise. Even if the guy got fired, she would be a pariah.

 

Lawsuits are time consuming and expensive. Even if you win, you 'lose'. Noone would hire her again. It is gender equivalent of being a whistleblower. Sure, everyone appreciates the person who did the whistleblowing... but noone will hire them for fear of being whistleblown on themselves.

 

This is my observation from working around all men for the past 20 years. What she is going through, I've been through myself.

 

The best 'revenge' is to outperform them, become their boss, and find a way to fire them yourself... without a lawsuit... or befriend someone else who will fire them.

[dasein]

Sounds like someone has been reading from some feminist claptrap as to "why SH laws aren't tough enough and don't work." Choose reality instead.

 

Going to HR is not wise. Even if the guy got fired, she would be a pariah.

 

No idea where you gathered this or if you just made it up or heard someone say it, but it is not the case. If anything, people who make legit SH claims are treated better because in cases of legit, documented SH, 1) it's in the company's best interest to know and rectify, any person in business will agree, and their insurers sure as hell will agree, 2) any retaliation of any sort strengthens the claim. A legitimate SH claim is one example where the old cliche' "The squeaky wheel gets the grease" is generally true.

 

Lawsuits are time consuming and expensive.

 

Boy you got that right, and you left out the bad publicity part. Those three things are exactly why companies settle such claims each and every day, even claims with much less merit than daphne's. The last thing a company wants is to have a legitimate SH claim get to a jury. Plaintiff's counsel is working on contingency, and has an easier discovery process than many other types of corporate suits, as there is no need to go through reams and reams of documents to make the case.

 

Even if you win, you 'lose'. Noone would hire her again.

 

Also ridiculous. If they settle, the incident is sealed to both sides' benefit. If the suit ends up paying out in court, the victor may never need to have to work again, or will have the verdict as vindication that the suit was legitimate. If the victim loses the suit, unless a prospective hiring company has a fulltime employee in the clerk's office, it's a slight chance that any prospective employer would even know of the suit. If the offending company reports it as part of employment inquiries, we are back in retaliation land.

 

It is gender equivalent of being a whistleblower. Sure, everyone appreciates the person who did the whistleblowing... but noone will hire them for fear of being whistleblown on themselves.

 

Pure fantasy, or if it ever was the case, it certainly hasn't been for a long time. The corporate world of today is so much larger and more diverse than in the past that I can't even thing of an adequate analogy.

 

Is a lawsuit the best step in any given situation? No one knows but the victim, and there are of course risks, but the alternative is having to sit and put up with asshats ruining one's work experience in an illegal way, and I suggest in many cases the risks of complaining and litigation are outweighed by being miserable at work.