Wolf18 Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 Your talking apples and oranges as far as I'm concerned. Smoking is an addiction, and one that is likely to lead to a premature death. The bugs that naturally exist around us clearly aren't. Of course smoking is bad for your health, but the biggest reason why smokers have premature deaths is because of the lifestyle they lead. Generally speaking people who smoke don't eat right, drink more, etc. I don't know a single smoker who doesn't appreciate a strong drink. Japan has the highest rate of smokers in the world, yet also one of the lowest rates of lung cancer. Why? They have a very healthy fish-centered diet and cleaner air.
Wolf18 Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 I love to have fun with these types in two ways. One is to mention that there is an FDA standard for bug parts per million in all manufactured food products, and that most any kind of canned food has bug parts in it. They love hearing that, the reactions are priceless. Another way is to remind them that our bodies contain about 90 trillion bugs in the form of bacteria and various mites and such. Look them in their eyes when you say this and say it deadpan as if it's just matter of fact. These types will start fidgeting and freaking out instantly. It's funny. What the hell is the point of that kind of life, where you obsess over every little thing is my question. What happens when you are an anal retentive health freak and one day a bus runs you over when you're out cycling in your cute little bodysuit. The Purell in your fanny pack gonna save you then? Honest to god, I don't think I'm going to live into old age (just a gut feeling), and I don't care. I'm going to indulge in lifes little pleasures while I'm here.
Cypress25 Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 Why do people assume that non-smokers are anal retentive health freaks with OCD? Maybe smoking just doesn't appeal to them. Tobacco products are extremely toxic and addictive. If some people would rather not have a filthy habit like smoking, there's nothing wrong with that. Personally, I'm glad that I'm not a slave to cigarettes and that I can enjoy my life without needing a nicotine fix every 4 hours. I'm not afraid of germs and I'm not a health freak, but I have to admit, I'm glad I don't smell like ash and smoke.
Wolf18 Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 Why do people assume that non-smokers are anal retentive health freaks with OCD? Maybe smoking just doesn't appeal to them. Tobacco products are extremely toxic and addictive. If some people would rather not have a filthy habit like smoking, there's nothing wrong with that. Personally, I'm glad that I'm not a slave to cigarettes and that I can enjoy my life without needing a nicotine fix every 4 hours. I'm not afraid of germs and I'm not a health freak, but I have to admit, I'm glad I don't smell like ash and smoke. Smoking doesn't have to appeal to you, but when you become one of those obnoxious crusaders that make cigarettes 12 bucks a pack and don't let you smoke outside on your college campus, I start to get annoyed. IT is a habit, so is coffee. I hope you don't drink tea or coffee, can you picture a day without it if you do? I authentically enjoy smoking, I'm not a "slave" to it. The people who say "I wish I had never started" are either weak-willed who use the habit as an excuse, or actually do enjoy to smoke but just say that to appease all the whiners and hypocrites. Honestly, those stupid scented candles and the dirty air from air conditioners make me sick/allergic. How would you like it if I started crusading against scented candles and air conditioning?
denise_xo Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 Of course smoking is bad for your health, but the biggest reason why smokers have premature deaths is because of the lifestyle they lead. Generally speaking people who smoke don't eat right, drink more, etc. I don't know a single smoker who doesn't appreciate a strong drink. Japan has the highest rate of smokers in the world, yet also one of the lowest rates of lung cancer. Why? They have a very healthy fish-centered diet and cleaner air. The point remains that smoking is an addiction - that's my main issue with it. I don't want that kind of thing to control me, and I don't want that kind of thing to control my partner (even though, unfortunately, it does).
O'Malley Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 Generally speaking people who smoke don't eat right, drink more, etc. I don't know a single smoker who doesn't appreciate a strong drink. It's unusual, but they're out there. My father smoked for over 40 years and was an absolute teetotaler. As a teenager, I was his caregiver when he was dying of cancer, so I'm not interested in a habit that increases the potential of a protracted, painful death. I'm not afraid of germs and I'm not a health freak, but I have to admit, I'm glad I don't smell like ash and smoke. It's pointless to make character assumptions about smokers vs. nonsmokers, but it's great that I can now go to concerts and not have to breathe in smoke for several hours. I wish there was a perfume/cologne ban at those venues as well.
Wolf18 Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 The point remains that smoking is an addiction - that's my main issue with it. I don't want that kind of thing to control me, and I don't want that kind of thing to control my partner (even though, unfortunately, it does). Cigarette smoking doesn't control you, it doesn't radically alter your state of mind. If you don't like to smoke, you can quit, and cold turkey as well. After 3 days your body no longer craves nicotine. Face it, most people who smoke choose to. I don't know denise, to be perfectly honest, I don't give a ****. A woman who dedicates so much time and energy to whether their partner smokes is pretty petty.
denise_xo Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 Cigarette smoking doesn't control you, it doesn't radically alter your state of mind. If you don't like to smoke, you can quit, and cold turkey as well. After 3 days your body no longer craves nicotine. Face it, most people who smoke choose to. I don't know denise, to be perfectly honest, I don't give a ****. A woman who dedicates so much time and energy to whether their partner smokes is pretty petty. It's an empirical fact that lots of people struggle to quit smoking. Failing to acknowledge that indicates to me that you live in some kind of la-la-land. And I really don't care if you give a **** or not. I'm stating my opinion on this board just like everyone else. If you don't like it, it's not my problem.
Cypress25 Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 LOL, you're right, Mircea. Tobacco products aren't toxic. In fact, they're good for you! Smoking cures cancer, right? Smoking doesn't have to appeal to you, but when you become one of those obnoxious crusaders that make cigarettes 12 bucks a pack and don't let you smoke outside on your college campus, I start to get annoyed. I'm pretty sure it's the cigarette manufacturers who price cigarettes. Of course they're going to charge a lot for their product. They know it's addictive and they want to make as much money as possible. I don't know about your college campus, but where I went to school, the rule was "No smoking within 25 feet of an entrance to a building." That's because people have to get in and out of buildings, and they shouldn't have smoke blown in their face every time they do. It's just common courtesy. If you want to smoke, that's fine, but don't force other people to inhale your fumes. IT is a habit, so is coffee. I hope you don't drink tea or coffee, can you picture a day without it if you do? No one is saying you can't smoke. They're just saying you can't smoke in public buildings because it's not fair to force other people to inhale your second-hand smoke. Coffee/tea doesn't cause any second-hand effects. You can drink coffee/tea in the middle of a crowded room and it won't affect anyone else. And coffee/tea is not toxic. I authentically enjoy smoking, I'm not a "slave" to it. The people who say "I wish I had never started" are either weak-willed who use the habit as an excuse, or actually do enjoy to smoke but just say that to appease all the whiners and hypocrites. Just because you enjoy smoking doesn't mean you're not addicted. That's what I meant by being a slave to it. It's an addictive substance; you need it. You'll probably be in a bad mood if you don't get it. Many addicts genuinely enjoy their substance of choice. But they're still addicts. Honestly, those stupid scented candles and the dirty air from air conditioners make me sick/allergic. How would you like it if I started crusading against scented candles and air conditioning? If you don't like them, that's fine. The reason it would be stupid to crusade against them is because (1) they're not toxic, and (2) no one is walking around with them in public places, forcing you to breathe them in. Learn the difference between an allergy and a toxic substance. I'm allergic to Penicillin, but that doesn't mean Penicillin is toxic. It's only harmful to me. For most people, it's actually beneficial. You may be allergic to scented candles, but for most people, they're harmless. Cigarettes, on the other hand, are harmful to everyone. I know a lot of smokers take the anti-tobacco campaign personally, but it's not an attack on smokers. It's an attack on tobacco products because they kill people. Do you understand? It's a public health issue. Cigarettes are poison. Anti-tobacco crusaders aren't trying to be obnoxious. They're trying to save lives.
dasein Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 I've met lots of interesting nonsmokers. I've never met a rabid zealot nonsmoker who was at all interesting or had much to offer. They spend all their time in life looking for hairs in the bathtub and snooping through people's medicine cabinets.
Wolf18 Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 I'm pretty sure it's the cigarette manufacturers who price cigarettes. Of course they're going to charge a lot for their product. They know it's addictive and they want to make as much money as possible. [/Quote] Yes and no. The reason cigarettes in a place like South Carolina cost 4 bucks and in NYC they cost 13 is because of taxes. A lot of things are addictive. Mcdonalds is addictive, in fact they put chemicals on big macs developed in a laboratory in New Jersey that give them that addictive flavor. In that laboratory they have viles with little labels on them , that say "Oreos", "Smart Balance" , etc etc. I don't know about your college campus, but where I went to school, the rule was "No smoking within 25 feet of an entrance to a building." That's because people have to get in and out of buildings, and they shouldn't have smoke blown in their face every time they do. It's just common courtesy. If you want to smoke, that's fine, but don't force other people to inhale your fumes. [/Quote] On mine it's extending to the entire campus, they're not even gonna put up a section for smokers. No one is saying you can't smoke. They're just saying you can't smoke in public buildings because it's not fair to force other people to inhale your second-hand smoke. Coffee/tea doesn't cause any second-hand effects. You can drink coffee/tea in the middle of a crowded room and it won't affect anyone else. And coffee/tea is not toxic. [/Quote] Second hand smoking is overblown. You breath in about a pack of cigarettes worth of carbon monoxide just by going outside if you live in a big city. Ironic, since the biggest anti-smokers tend to be from urban areas. Just because you enjoy smoking doesn't mean you're not addicted. That's what I meant by being a slave to it. It's an addictive substance; you need it. You'll probably be in a bad mood if you don't get it. Many addicts genuinely enjoy their substance of choice. But they're still addicts. [/Quote] Slavery means doing something against your will. If I like to smoke a cigarette, I'm not a slave to it. If I don't like to smoke but I do so anyway, I'm not a slave either, many people quit smoking from one day to the next. People just make excuses for their weakness. If you don't like them, that's fine. The reason it would be stupid to crusade against them is because (1) they're not toxic, and (2) no one is walking around with them in public places, forcing you to breathe them in. [/Quote] Actually, this is false. Every public building you go to is air conditioned, and scented candles are pretty common when you go to the doctors office etc. Sometimes when I go to my dentist the AC and scented candles are both on full blast, and it can be uncomfortable with my eyes watering and coughing. The same symptoms as some individuals who happen to breath in second hand smoke. How do you know they are not toxic? Are there any studies on the subject? It would be interesting. I know a lot of smokers take the anti-tobacco campaign personally, but it's not an attack on smokers. It's an attack on tobacco products because they kill people. Do you understand? It's a public health issue. Cigarettes are poison. Anti-tobacco crusaders aren't trying to be obnoxious. They're trying to save lives. [/Quote] They kill people, perhaps they contribute, but cars kill people too. Like I said there are countries with a very high rate of tobacco use that have low incidences of cancer and heart disease. Working in a coal mine kills people. A lot of things kill people. People single out smoking so that when the government imposes insane taxes on tobacco products people don't complain. Depending on the state you live in, booze and tobacco taxes are a big part of your states revenue.
Wolf18 Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 Regardless, I never thought this was a topic worthy of so much zeal and passion. It's a habit like any other, true, but dedicating so much time and energy towards nagging people who choose to partake in it just shows what a wussy society this is. I seldom give it much thought myself, except when I'm paying out the ass for a pack of cigs. I'm out of this thread, smoking rulezz!
Cypress25 Posted November 22, 2011 Posted November 22, 2011 Second hand smoking is overblown. You breath in about a pack of cigarettes worth of carbon monoxide just by going outside if you live in a big city. There's a lot more than carbon monoxide in cigarette smoke. All of the other ingredients are toxic as well. And the smell is extremely offensive. Slavery means doing something against your will. If I like to smoke a cigarette, I'm not a slave to it. If I don't like to smoke but I do so anyway, I'm not a slave either, many people quit smoking from one day to the next. People just make excuses for their weakness. We're talking about addiction here. If you start craving a cigarette and you're in a situation where you don't have access to cigarettes (say, you're on an airplane for a transatlantic flight), you're going to be very uncomfortable and cranky until you finally get your fix. I'm sure you don't enjoy that part of being an addict. If you want to call it weakness, fine with me. I call it addiction. Sometimes when I go to my dentist the AC and scented candles are both on full blast, and it can be uncomfortable with my eyes watering and coughing. The same symptoms as some individuals who happen to breath in second hand smoke. You think those are the only symptoms of second-hand smoke? It can do serious damage, depending on how much you're exposed to and how old you are. How do you know they are not toxic? Are there any studies on the subject? Because there are no toxic ingredients in them. Studies were never needed to prove that cigarettes are toxic. Tobacco manufacturers were perfectly aware that their products were poisonous. All the research was just to convince the public. They kill people, perhaps they contribute, but cars kill people too. Like I said there are countries with a very high rate of tobacco use that have low incidences of cancer and heart disease. Working in a coal mine kills people. A lot of things kill people. A lot of things CAN kill people, but cigarettes are guaranteed harmful. There's no way to safely smoke a cigarette. Every drag on every cigarette hurts you. The damage is cumulative. Even if you don't smoke long enough for it to kill you, it will cause serious problems. If what happens on the inside, happened on the outside, no one would smoke. People single out smoking so that when the government imposes insane taxes on tobacco products people don't complain. I don't think smoking is singled out. It's just one of many public health issues. But it's a big one because of the sheer levels of toxicity in each cigarette. So many carcinogens packed into one tiny roll of paper. And unlike car exhaust, this toxic product is actually marketed for human consumption. Gross? It's a habit like any other, true, but dedicating so much time and energy towards nagging people who choose to partake in it just shows what a wussy society this is. It's a deadly habit, is the thing. And no one is nagging people who choose to partake in it. They're nagging the companies that manufacture the deadly product. Individual smokers are not the target. Big Tobacco is the target. I know plenty of people who smoke, and I don't hassle them about it. It's their choice. But I do think it's unconscionable that tobacco companies are allowed to manufacture this crap. Usually, a product would be recalled if it was found to contain anything toxic. But not cigarettes, for some reason. It blows my mind.
Author El Brujo Posted November 22, 2011 Author Posted November 22, 2011 Jeanne Calment smoked until she was 90 and lived to be 123. Good genes. Look it up. Deena Soloway started smoking at 13, was diagnosed with lung cancer at 25, and died at 28. Bad genes. Go figure. There's a lot of data that the tobacco companies kept in the closet since the 1930s, until Florida and a couple other states started winning lawsuits against big tobacco. Now it's not that difficult to find the info which was suppressed, about how benzo-pyrene in cigarette smoke f***s with DNA and turns it into oncogenes. But try telling that to everyone who hated science in school! Non-inhaling cuts the risks somewhat... plus if you smoke but don't inhale, you probably won't get winded-out as easily, but you can still look like Humphrey Bogart or Marlene Dietrich and smell just as bad.
Els Posted November 25, 2011 Posted November 25, 2011 Eh, a large percentage of my friends are in some part of the medical field, so most of the people I know are strongly against smoking because they know just what it does to one's health. Secondhand smoke isn't like red meat or trans fat or fructose syrup or parabens-containing cosmetics or whatever the latest health scare is - yes, those are bad, but most of them aren't scientifically proven to be direct risk factors to any lethal diseases. Regular inhalation of cigarette smoke, on the other hand, IS proven to be a direct risk factor to MANY lethal diseases. This has been proven with several randomized controlled trials on subjects such as heart disease and the majority of cancers, and is accepted by the panel of specialists who review them and design the national health guidelines. If anyone here wishes to dispute this, they are welcome to produce legitimate scientific proof of their own. No, smoking-is-good-for-health.com is not legitimate scientific proof. For that reason, mainly, I would never date a smoker. Sure, I have a few friends who smoke, but I meet them like once a month or something, so that's acceptable. A date who smokes would be fine during the dating stage as long as he doesn't do it in front of me.. But what happens when we want to take it further? I value my life too much to live with a smoker. For the record, I don't really give a crap about cleanliness, my house only ever gets cleaned when rental inspection comes around.
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