Author joystickd Posted November 20, 2011 Author Posted November 20, 2011 I think that's a little too board Dasein. Just because you go out on a date with a woman, doesn't mean a man is entitled to ask for sex. Naturally dating is a precursor to a deeper relationship or a sexual one and certainly not all cases where a man asks for sex during a date, is it always inappropriate. But it's not always appropiate either. I've dated a lot of men that seemed to think certain behavior was acceptable that I disagreed with. I turned them down and it did lower my opinion of them. Is it wrong for my opinon to be lowered of them based on their actions? I'm not so sure. I would never go so far to call them names because that is inappropiate but we clearly didn't have the same values. While I don't condone disrespecting regular guys and calling them "creepy" when they've done nothing to be creepy for, I think if we want men to honestly be able to express their sexual feelings, then in turn, we have to be prepared for the response that will draw. And further, men would have to give pass to women to honestly express their feelings as well. And we have to be honest that people hold different ideas about what is acceptable sexual behavior and what isn't. I take it you are a manipulative woman. Most women get what the article is saying but you are a little too passionate about this. You can say you are not but my interpretation of what you are saying is otherwise to me. I have noticed you have a strong stance on male sexuality. If you are not thein fine but to me you sound manipulative.
Taramere Posted November 20, 2011 Posted November 20, 2011 Good job!! That's very cool... Mine wasn't bad. 12 out of 16. Pegged 75% of the rapists and 100% of the assault. Not as well on the arsonists and drug dealers. Interesting that I was able to peg the violent ones.... I'm actually eerily good at detecting liars and anger in real life... even when people are trying to hide their anger. Yep...there are usually inconsistencies that alert you. They might be working hard to adopt a chilled out tone, but there's some aspect of tension about the body. I was talking about this to somebody tonight. Well...not this exact subject, but about reading people generally. One judge who sat regularly when I was doing that kind of work was a real bully, but I only got it from her once. Generally she was pretty nice to me, and I was trying to figure out why this was. One thing I noticed was that when she was humiliating people in court, she would glance round the room generally-making eye contact with the "audience" of lawyers. Some of them would be chuckling and smirking when she was humiliating somebody. Others would stare at the floor or at their case list and generally just look uncomfortable. I fell into that latter group. What I noticed over time was that everybody she really picked on tended towards the smirky schadenfreude approach. Judges (as the word implies) probably have particularly good instincts about people. Which must make the job very hard in many ways. When instincts are telling you "this person's a very bad lot" but the evidence is lacking, that's got to be a tough feeling to deal with.
A O Posted November 20, 2011 Posted November 20, 2011 If it is important to you to be seen as the 'leader' then good for you. It’s not about me. It’s about what women (the number is arguable) prefer. You don’t prefer to be led, sweet; many men prefer not to lead. But most women do prefer a man who can lead irrespective of whether he’s actually performing that duty any more than the woman is within the relationship. As for me... I don't recall calling anyone a creep. Then again, I think I can count on one hand the number of times I've called anyone a name. Just so unproductive. I’ve never called a woman a creep either but then I understand why that is and why women have a need to use the term. I do find some of this chest pounding and generalizations to be hilarious!! Me Tarzan!! You Jane!! (oops, I mean you Tarzan, me Jane). Yep. Think little Jane and big Tarzan. Big Tarzan leads little Jane wherever she wants to go. About sums things up. .
dasein Posted November 20, 2011 Posted November 20, 2011 Oh... this is fun!! I'll play!! 1) Damn, I've never done well with the guy leading when dancing. I really suck at it. Have tried, and I usually kinda end up doing my own thing. Not intentionally. Just happens. I realize those are the 'rules' for ballroom dancing though, so I try to play along. I don't take it as some manipulative scheme to keep me down (ha ha). Ballet is a different story. Definately alot different than ballroom dancing. 2) I prefer that neither is passive. I'm not passive and neither is he. More fun that way. 3) I like talking about what we both enjoy doing and deciding together. I enjoy learning new things and going new places, and expect he does too. 4) There is no one-size-fits-all for me. Every significant relationship I've had has been completely different and started in different ways. I enjoy the process of creating intimacy... in whatever fashion it comes along. 5) I like someone who can survey a situation and do his part... not my part. His part. We're a team. I don't need him to decide for me. 6) My friends (of either gender) and lovers are all passionate about whatever they do. They make the most interesting companions. It isn't designated to romantic options. OK those are the "beauty pageant" answers, care to tell the truth now?
ThsAmericanLife Posted November 20, 2011 Posted November 20, 2011 It’s not about me. It’s about what women (the number is arguable) prefer. You don’t prefer to be led, sweet; many men prefer not to lead. But most women do prefer a man who can lead irrespective of whether he’s actually performing that duty any more than the woman is within the relationship. . It's not about you? Really? and I've never claimed to know what women or men prefer. To be honest, having that discussion seems pretty ridiculous. Labels create distance between people. Sure, it is shorthand for people who don't have the time or interest to get to know another person. We've all done it. But I'll never claim to know what any group of people want. I'm more interested in learning what we have in common... not what separates us. As for me... I've never stated any preference... except for this. I prefer balance. I prefer people who don't look at relationships as a one up or one down. I'm capable of following or leading... depending on the situation. To make any relationship so black and white (man leads, woman follows) seem incredibly boring.
ThsAmericanLife Posted November 20, 2011 Posted November 20, 2011 OK those are the "beauty pageant" answers, care to tell the truth now? Hey, I yam who I yam. I'm special that way
Woggle Posted November 20, 2011 Posted November 20, 2011 Anyone claiming sexual harrassment (male or female) is compelled by law to demonstrate they have taken every reasonable action to make sure the other person knows their attention is not warranted. To the extent that the stakes are pretty high for the person being accused, I'm just fine with a pretty high standard of proof being applied. Anyone should have a hard time being 'believed'. It is a pretty big stretch to say that any man talking to any woman would be considered 'creepy'... It's all about context. If a person approached me in a public place with plenty of (friendly appearing) bystanders... that feels alot less 'creepy' than a person who approaches me in an environment where I'm physically vulnerable (at night, alone, etc). Some people seem a bit socially awkward in their understanding of how they come across to others, or don't have a sense of proper context. Or, they really don't care how they come across. They just want what they want, and think the other person is necessarily obliged to be nice about it. Getting negative feedback is one way that people learn what is or is not appropriate. No big deal. They might be compelled by law but if a man is labeled a harasser simply for saying good morning then it can ruin his reputation and taint him for life. I am not one of these people that believes sexual harassment does not exist but it needs to be clearly defined so we can't deem any social interaction between men and women as harrassment. If it were up to some people men and women would not be able to talk to each other at all.
A O Posted November 20, 2011 Posted November 20, 2011 It's not about you? Really? Yep, this is not about me. These are my observations of behavior, they are not grounds for how I should or others should interact with me. and I've never claimed to know what women or men prefer. Its alright to have preferences. We don't have to be a slave to them. Likewise we can have preconceptions. They're OK too as long as we don't stick to them if they prove to be wrong. To be honest, having that discussion seems pretty ridiculous. Labels create distance between people. Sure, it is shorthand for people who don't have the time or interest to get to know another person. We've all done it. But I'll never claim to know what any group of people want. I'm more interested in learning what we have in common... not what separates us. To understand you need to know difference. Our differences need not separate us. Quite the opposite actually. As for me... I've never stated any preference... except for this. I prefer balance. I prefer people who don't look at relationships as a one up or one down. Then this is your preference. Its different to others but its a preference nonetheless. I'm capable of following or leading... depending on the situation. To make any relationship so black and white (man leads, woman follows) seem incredibly boring.I haven't made it black and white - that's what you're doing. Somehow, your preferred state of being is seeing red while I'm singing blue. .
ThsAmericanLife Posted November 20, 2011 Posted November 20, 2011 They might be compelled by law but if a man is labeled a harasser simply for saying good morning then it can ruin his reputation and taint him for life. I am not one of these people that believes sexual harassment does not exist but it needs to be clearly defined so we can't deem any social interaction between men and women as harrassment. If it were up to some people men and women would not be able to talk to each other at all. oh, Woggle. do you want to mention real life examples or talk in generalities? I've worked around all men my entire career. I could tell you some pretty awful stories. You don't see me running around waving any sexual harrassment flags. Sexual harrassment IS clearly defined. You make a pass, they say no. You leave it at that. Easy sneezy.
ThsAmericanLife Posted November 20, 2011 Posted November 20, 2011 Yep, this is not about me. These are my observations of behavior, they are not grounds for how I should or others should interact with me. Its alright to have preferences. We don't have to be a slave to them. Likewise we can have preconceptions. They're OK too as long as we don't stick to them if they prove to be wrong. To understand you need to know difference. Our differences need not separate us. Quite the opposite actually. Then this is your preference. Its different to others but its a preference nonetheless. I haven't made it black and white - that's what you're doing. Somehow, your preferred state of being is seeing red while I'm singing blue. . I know difference. It just isn't based on my gender.... We all have choices in life. I choose not to see people just through those lens. That's just me.
Woggle Posted November 20, 2011 Posted November 20, 2011 oh, Woggle. do you want to mention real life examples or talk in generalities? I've worked around all men my entire career. I could tell you some pretty awful stories. You don't see me running around waving any sexual harrassment flags. Sexual harrassment IS clearly defined. You make a pass, they say no. You leave it at that. Easy sneezy. With sexual harassment it is your word against theirs. My boss had to go through a bunch of crap about a decade ago because he turned down a woman's advances and she tried to accuse him of sexual harassment. The only thing that saved him was the fact that every other woman that worked with him had his back. It doesn't change the fact that in many cases a creep is considered to be a man a woman does not find attractive who says good morning to her.
Woggle Posted November 20, 2011 Posted November 20, 2011 it is not clearly defined. guys can get in trouble for lightly touching her elbow. on the other hand attractice guys get away with anything. where i used to work a guy grabbed a gal's breast. they ended up dating 3 months before he cheated on her. she tried to get him back too. I once saw an attractive guy in a club take a woman's hand and place it on his penis and she actually went home with him. On the other hand I have seen men get torn shreds for working up the courage to respectfully say hello.
Wolf18 Posted November 20, 2011 Posted November 20, 2011 I once saw an attractive guy in a club take a woman's hand and place it on his penis and she actually went home with him. On the other hand I have seen men get torn shreds for working up the courage to respectfully say hello. Women's "morals" and self respect is highly contextual, considering ive seen very similar things in my travels. I get in a lot of trouble precisely for that reason. When I was very muscular I would be very bold and borderline disrespectful with women (inlcuding women with boyfriends) and they loved every minute of it, some of them would sleep with me afterwards. Later when I got skinny if I tried the same stuff thinking it was what women responded to, well, at best I get a slap and at worst threats of calling the police
A O Posted November 20, 2011 Posted November 20, 2011 I know difference. It just isn't based on my gender.... We all have choices in life. I choose not to see people just through those lens. That's just me. What differences there may be need not influence the way we treat each other. I choose to treat people how I wish to be treated. Mostly successful in this endeavour. That is my lens. .
Author joystickd Posted November 20, 2011 Author Posted November 20, 2011 Women's "morals" and self respect is highly contextual, considering ive seen very similar things in my travels. I get in a lot of trouble precisely for that reason. When I was very muscular I would be very bold and borderline disrespectful with women (inlcuding women with boyfriends) and they loved every minute of it, some of them would sleep with me afterwards. Later when I got skinny if I tried the same stuff thinking it was what women responded to, well, at best I get a slap and at worst threats of calling the police I know i kept a pic of my penis on my cell phone and would show a woman. It was funny and they were ok with it. The creep thing is personal specific to a person's own personal boundaries, but its also used kind of like man and women use slut to kind of defuse a person's sex appeal. A guy could come in a room and women think he is attractive and a woman that is mad at that guy could describe some untrue creepy behavior and these women will begin to wonder.
PlumPrincess Posted November 20, 2011 Posted November 20, 2011 No wonder I'm paranoid. How can you be particularly trusting when you know the moment you don't pay attention you're going to get screwed over...
Taramere Posted November 20, 2011 Posted November 20, 2011 Holy sht. I guessed all 16 of the criminals correctly, but I was entirely off in guessing which crimes they had committed. I got none of the rapists right. How did you guys tell that? I didn't allocate crimes to them. In mugshot style photos like that you'd expect most people to look slightly uncomfortable....but some stood out as looking angry, dopey or just a bit too relaxed. I didn't think the psychopathic looking (in my view) ones were necessarily rapists. A psychopath could just as easily be involved in a major scam or heading a gang dealing in drugs. I'm trying to analyse how I look at them to figure out why I picked certain ones out as looking psychopathic. It tends to be an overall glance, then at the eyes and then the mouth. Psycholook one...the expression in his eyes and the slightly smirky mouth don't match up. He's very relaxed...the only tension around his mouth is because he's smirking, but here's no matching humour or warmth in his eyes. Psycholook two...again, very relaxed. Dead eyed. Psycholook three...I might as well name him (by his number) because he's so obviously a wrong 'un. Number 27. He stands out amongst all of the photos as being full of hate and anger....so perhaps a little too emotional and out of control to be psychopathic, but I got a terrible gut reaction from his photo, so added him to the list. Psycholook four...All I can say is, I've seen that look before. Pyscholook five...If I opened my front door and saw this standing in front of me, I'd be saying a quick prayer, because I'd expect an axe to swing out from behind his back at any moment..
Author joystickd Posted November 20, 2011 Author Posted November 20, 2011 If you met a guy like Patrick Bateman from American Psycho in real life could you guess if he was a killer.
Taramere Posted November 20, 2011 Posted November 20, 2011 If you met a guy like Patrick Bateman from American Psycho in real life could you guess if he was a killer. Maybe somebody who worked in criminal profiling could. I think for the ordinary person, you're just going by gut instinct that a particular person is somebody to steer clear of. Probably most people here haven't heard of the Gloucestershire murders, but I remember when Fred West was first on the news everybody I knew was absolutely convinced of his guilt simply because he looked like the absolute epitome of a creepy criminal. You could imagine criminals from 1,000 years ago looking exactly like that. http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/65000/images/_69928_fred_west_150.jpg Who on earth would get into a car with a stranger who looked like that? Yet young women did- perhaps because he had his wife Rosemary (accomplice in the killings) with him. As for American psycho...well, I think he was presented in his everyday life as being a very narcissistic metrosexual. I wouldn't expect somebody like that to be a killer, because he'd have too much to lose. On the other hand, the implication in the book was that he was fantasising.
Taramere Posted November 20, 2011 Posted November 20, 2011 It'd be interesting to do the same study with female criminals/non criminals and see if they were as easy to distinguish. Would you want to be alone in a room with this crazy-eyed a woman? http://img1.ranker.com/list_img/1/165902/full/famous-female-serial-killers.jpg?version=1310768619000 How about this blonde bombshell? (Myra Hindley- Moors murderess) http://www.blogcdn.com/www.lemondrop.com/media/2008/10/myrahindley.jpg Or from the olden days... http://imaginaryrobot.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/ameliadyer.jpg
nofool4u Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 In a way being called a creep is punishing or shaming them for being straight forward and honest about their desires in a polite way because of the guy that just say hey let's f**k. I posted threads about honesty and I have had women assume I meant me going and say hey let's f**k. A big problem with dating is this issue and the fact that male sexuality is seen as predatory. Depends on how the man conducts himself. If he is upfront and the women know he isn't looking for a relationship or tells them he just wants to see different women, nothing predatory about that at all. If he leads women on, uses smooth language to get them into bed knowing they wouldn't be ok with being used, then the word creep fits them nicely.
nofool4u Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 I once saw an attractive guy in a club take a woman's hand and place it on his penis and she actually went home with him. And I bet you anything when he told her it was a one time thing, she acted all surprised and hurt:lmao: People that go clubbing shouldn't expect alot from someone they go home with.
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