woinlove Posted November 20, 2011 Posted November 20, 2011 I read your post. I understood what you what said. Since there is no love there it should not be that hard. You just care. No love. What you should be asking yourself is why are you so invested in someone you just care about??? It's physical more so than "emotional" for you... replace the entity. Lots of things besides love make moving on difficult. As I said, some MM seem addicted without love. They may be addicted to the thrill, risk, sex, some feelings connected to the A. In fact, reading their stories, I often think it would be easier to move on if they actually had feelings of real love for the person than the mix of infatuation and addiction they seem to have. DM doesn't seem that addicted compared to some cases we read, but it is not surprising that he has some feelings of attachment or misses some of the things they shared. Even great sex, without deeper feelings, can be severely missed.
Author despicableME Posted November 20, 2011 Author Posted November 20, 2011 why are you so invested in someone you just care about??? Because believe it or not, she's still my friend. Just because we're not seeing each other "in that way," doesn't mean we don't speak to each other amicably. I can see it hurts her that we're "just friends," but should I feel compelled to keep the affair going ONLY because of this? NO! Its not fair to her that I'm getting my sexual gratification, while she thinks its MORE than that. DM doesn't seem that addicted compared to some cases we read Like you've said, I'm addicted to "the thrill, risk, sex, some feelings connected to the A." How wrong would it be for me to string her along and allow her to leave her husband, when I'm emotionally unavailable... she'd be devastated. We shared physical intimacy, and thats not easy to get over.
Emme Posted November 20, 2011 Posted November 20, 2011 Because believe it or not, she's still my friend. Just because we're not seeing each other "in that way," doesn't mean we don't speak to each other amicably. I can see it hurts her that we're "just friends," but should I feel compelled to keep the affair going ONLY because of this? NO! Its not fair to her that I'm getting my sexual gratification, while she thinks its MORE than that. You can say what you want but at the end of the day if you are not honest about your emotions... you will not be able to move on. Think about it.
Author despicableME Posted November 20, 2011 Author Posted November 20, 2011 Huh??? Care to elaborate?
Emme Posted November 20, 2011 Posted November 20, 2011 Take piece of paper. Write down how many relationships you've had. Write down how many affairs you've had. Write down how many relationships you've ended. Write down of those relationships how many have brought you to the internet seeking advice. Out of all the relations you've had how many of them were still on your mind as this other woman seems to be. Take your time...
Author despicableME Posted November 20, 2011 Author Posted November 20, 2011 Are you serious? Obviously because she's the most recent, she's gonna be on my mind... don't you think?
Emme Posted November 20, 2011 Posted November 20, 2011 How many have made you seek assistance on the internet. Have you ever cheated before? Think hard. Every adult relationship counts. Have you ever been with more than one woman and they didn't know about each other.
Author despicableME Posted November 20, 2011 Author Posted November 20, 2011 (edited) Emme, I really don't know what you're getting at, but I'll humor you... I've only been in maybe five relationships that I deem serious. I haven't cheated in any of them. If you've read my posts, I was never "that guy" who would cheat on someone. I was always the "go to guy" when it came to stability and reason, that's why its so out of the norm for me. I've been in situations where I've had to withdraw or recede from a relationship because it was getting too "close." Granted, these social interactions haven't ended on a good note, because these women thought I was concieted, or thought I was "too good" for them- not the case. I was of the mind that if I just cut-off all communication with them, they would get the hint I was unavailable. My AP just caught me at a very weak point... I guess you can say I was just tired of being the "good guy"... "ol Mr. Reliable"... see what I mean. I'm not blaming anyone but myself for the choices I've made. I'll get through this... I'm just trying to understand it. I really appreciate you taking the time to help me sort this out. I didn't come here for a debate on the moral issues of an affair... I didn't come here to debunk every perspective(although it might seem that way at times), but I will speak my mind. I came here to understand the choices I've made recently, and how NOT to repeat those same mistakes. Thanks. Edited November 20, 2011 by despicableME
Emme Posted November 20, 2011 Posted November 20, 2011 The only perspective I would like you to focus on is how much effort you are putting into a woman who you just simply cared for. Not loved, cared for. From what I'm reading your putting in a lot of effort.
woinlove Posted November 20, 2011 Posted November 20, 2011 DM, my own take is that your feelings are perfectly normal and to be expected. Secret affairs bring up a lot of emotion -- obsession and addiction are not unusual. I think it's healthy that you don't want to continue being in an affair, involving deception, even though MOW implied that she would like to continue. Even still, it is expected that you will think of the great sex and other good parts and feel a draw. Even if you did love her, I wouldn't recommend resuming a deceptive affair. Since you don't love her, even more so. You seem to generally value honesty and so I think you will be happier not being involved in deception, even if deception does come with some good sex and thrills. If you want a future committed and honest R, you already need to do some work and change in order not to become the person you were during your A again.
Author despicableME Posted November 20, 2011 Author Posted November 20, 2011 From what I'm reading your putting in a lot of effort. It might be because we still interact with each other. It goes both ways. She'll often ask me "What are you thinking about?" knowing what the answer is. She actually took some time off from work when we called it quits... as she put it- "Need a little time to catch my breath." You seem to generally value honesty I wish that was true, but how can it be with the callousness of my actions. I guess I'm coming down from the "high," and now see things a bit clearer.
whichwayisup Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 The only perspective I would like you to focus on is how much effort you are putting into a woman who you just simply cared for. Not loved, cared for. From what I'm reading your putting in a lot of effort. And how many other MM had a hard time letting go. this isn't about love, ok emme, it's about affair addiction and that dynamic, the feelings felt and the intensity of it all.. People, both OW and MM, OM and MW can get addicted to that high! It's lustful and addictive attraction that feeds the ego. On a personal level, in his heart he's been honest and said he didn't let himself fall in love with his exOW. Believe him when he says that.. Men are simplier than women. That's a fact when it comes to sex and love. Chances are he misses how the OW made him feel, and that's not "love", that's selfish lust and ego stuff. NO offense to you DM, just saying my 2 cents on your situation, but if I"m wrong, let me know, k!
Emme Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 DM can state that he has no love for her. That fine. I’m saying he needs to reevaluate because that is not what I am seeing. My opinion is that he’s not being honest with his true feelings for this woman. If there is one thing I know about men is that they don’t waste time and energy on something that’s insignificant. I’m not saying he’s madly in love with her but I’m saying his emotions are more than he’s letting on. He will not be able to move forward unless he confronts those emotions. He stated that he didn’t want to use her anymore. Great! His addiction of feeding that ego can easily be replaced. Now if he is chasing the rush of what an affair gives him he would have moved on the next woman, any woman. He can easily replace the emotional aspect of that convenient relationship with someone else. He isn’t able to. There’s a reason why he can’t. If he chooses to continue to say he just cares for her, fine. That’s his choice. I say he needs to reflect some more and figure out why this one woman is holding him back from getting the ego rush he needs and can receive from someone else. Start chatting up another woman DM. Lets feed this ego with someone else.
PhoenixRise Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 DM can state that he has no love for her. That fine. I’m saying he needs to reevaluate because that is not what I am seeing. My opinion is that he’s not being honest with his true feelings for this woman. If there is one thing I know about men is that they don’t waste time and energy on something that’s insignificant. I’m not saying he’s madly in love with her but I’m saying his emotions are more than he’s letting on. He will not be able to move forward unless he confronts those emotions. He stated that he didn’t want to use her anymore. Great! His addiction of feeding that ego can easily be replaced. Now if he is chasing the rush of what an affair gives him he would have moved on the next woman, any woman. He can easily replace the emotional aspect of that convenient relationship with someone else. He isn’t able to. There’s a reason why he can’t. If he chooses to continue to say he just cares for her, fine. That’s his choice. I say he needs to reflect some more and figure out why this one woman is holding him back from getting the ego rush he needs and can receive from someone else. Start chatting up another woman DM. Lets feed this ego with someone else. What do you think is motivation is to lie to himself or to this forum about his feelings? His wife has divorced him. His family is split up. He is not trying to save a marriage nor is he trying to convince a hurt and angry BS that the OW meant nothing. He has said that the OW is/was willing to continue the relationship with him. If he loved the OW apparently he could go back to her as she indicated she would be willing to leave her husband. He hasn't posted anything that I have read that indicates he even wants his marriage/wife back. He (from what I have read) is not pining away for his wife and thus minimizing the feelings for the OW as a result. Maybe he doesn't want/need an ego rush anymore. Some MM post here that they pine away for their long lost OW for years after the affair is over. They say they loved her then and they still love her even though they stayed in the marriage. This MM is saying that while he cared/cares about the OW it wasn't love. What exactly would be his motivation to lie to himself about his feelings?
Spark1111 Posted November 22, 2011 Posted November 22, 2011 DM, I applaud your honesty. I find it refreshing and hope you continue to post although you will take many a brickbat for it. I think you represent the typical MM and I understand why you erupt with all the romantic projection expressed by many an OW on these boards. Men and women are very different when it comes to lust, love, and emotional and romantic attachement. Keep educating. I, for one, think it is important to do so. With gratitude, Spark
Emme Posted November 22, 2011 Posted November 22, 2011 (edited) I don't care about love. I simply stated that he needs to step back look at the situation because from his post he is truly invested in her more than ever. I could've just as easily said "f@#$ it," I'm not all that satisfied myself with MY situation, so I'll go ahead and lose myself in the emotional aspect of the affair... but I didn't. I do miss her... I miss the similar qualities we both share(d)... I miss the intense physical attraction. I find myself fighting it everytime our paths cross. I really don't know what she's thinking if she has "lost it" for her husband. As I said no one wastes time on something that is insignificant. They move on. Next! He doesn't have loving feelings for her, find a new drug that will give you the high you seek. Her high is nothing special. Edited November 22, 2011 by Emme
Severely Unamused Posted November 22, 2011 Posted November 22, 2011 (edited) What exactly would be his motivation to lie to himself about his feelings? Assuming that dM is lying... He doesn't like what the truth says about him. He doesn't want to face the unpleasant truth. He isn't emotionally ready for the truth. So he deludes himself with lies. He may not even realise that he is lying to himself. Edited November 22, 2011 by Severely Unamused
Author despicableME Posted November 30, 2011 Author Posted November 30, 2011 ...been gone for a bit. this isn't about love, ok emme, it's about affair addiction and that dynamic, the feelings felt and the intensity of it all Very true... at least for me it is. My opinion is that he’s not being honest with his true feelings for this woman. If there is one thing I know about men is that they don’t waste time and energy on something that’s insignificant. I’m not saying he’s madly in love with her but I’m saying his emotions are more than he’s letting on. He will not be able to move forward unless he confronts those emotions. My feelings for her are quite clear. While I don't love her in a romantic sense, I do care for her... I mean, we shared some very intimate moments, mind you. I never said she was insignificant, but you'd be very surprised to know men often pursue things that are not up to par with what they REALLY desire... or haven't you been reading the hosts of threads where they just dump OW at the drop of a hat. Believe me... I'm a man, and I'm telling you this is VERY true. He hasn't posted anything that I have read that indicates he even wants his marriage/wife back. I haven't posted this aspect on my ongoing struggle because I feel this is between my wife and I. Suffice to say, I've done everything I can think of to repair and regain my wife's trust, but to no avail. I think she needs space to figure out her wants and needs... she deserves whatever time it requires to "get her sanity back," as she put it. I'm in limbo right now, and its ALL my doing... "Time to pay the fiddler." I think you represent the typical MM and I understand why you erupt with all the romantic projection expressed by many an OW on these boards. I'm not trying to debunk every single experience/situation. I do believe that some situations may have a possible future, but those are miniscule in number. As you might have realized- without me pressing the issue- men are wired differently. We are not as receptive to labeling an affair as "love" right off the bat. That is why you find a plethora of OW on these boards, as opposed to OM. Personally I feel this is a mistake that many ow make, they assume because the mm is having an affair that he is unhappy in his marriage and that he must have real deep feelings for the ow. Again, this is so very true. We(men) often call it- "having something on the side." Almost as if we're asking for dessert after a good meal(marriage). He doesn't like what the truth says about him. He doesn't want to face the unpleasant truth. He isn't emotionally ready for the truth. So he deludes himself with lies. He may not even realise that he is lying to himself. You may be right. That's why I'm here. I want to understand my issues. Although I might not agree with some of the advice, I do take it into consideration... I'd be a fool NOT to. Insight is ALWAYS helpful.
norajane Posted November 30, 2011 Posted November 30, 2011 I don't care about love. I simply stated that he needs to step back look at the situation because from his post he is truly invested in her more than ever. As I said no one wastes time on something that is insignificant. They move on. Next! He doesn't have loving feelings for her, find a new drug that will give you the high you seek. Her high is nothing special. There is a wide spectrum between love and insignificant. Just because it is not one, does not mean it is the other.
nofool4u Posted November 30, 2011 Posted November 30, 2011 Ummm... after reading through many of the threads and posts here, it seems people are able to bring up certain subjects without being criticized. Well... here goes. Is it wrong of me to say that I thoroughly enjoyed the physical aspect of my affair. I feel so guilty for this. I mean... it wasn't only different, but better in some ways to that of my marriage. Is it because of the "naughtiness" of it, or because we were really "going at it." I hope I don't ruffle any feathers by this, but since I'm not in any kind of therapy I needed an outlet of some kind. It just bugs the hell out of me that I keep going back to this in my mind. I'm one F@#$ED-UP individual. Its better than in your marriage because you are boning someone new. Some people can enjoy sex with the same person til death do they part and realize its only new for a short amount of time. Others simply want to have sex with someone new for the, well, newness and excitement. Whether its because they are new, see it as a conquest, or an ego boost. So I'd say since you are one of the ones that feel the latter, you shouldn't be married and should set your spouse free.
Spark1111 Posted November 30, 2011 Posted November 30, 2011 Its better than in your marriage because you are boning someone new. Some people can enjoy sex with the same person til death do they part and realize its only new for a short amount of time. Others simply want to have sex with someone new for the, well, newness and excitement. Whether its because they are new, see it as a conquest, or an ego boost. So I'd say since you are one of the ones that feel the latter, you shouldn't be married and should set your spouse free. I grow tired of reading how this is strictly a male issue --the desire for sexual variety and newness-- because it is not. Women certainly want or fantasize, or even act on it too. If the majority of divorces, 50%, can be traced to infidelity, what are the other 50% doing to stay faithful. Fidelity, whether you are a man or a woman, is always about choice, IMO. DM is very honest and represents the majoritive male opinion, IMO. Another male poster here echoes him. Fond of the OW, cares for the OW, loves the intense naughty, sneaking-it-on-the run- sex, but never mentions the L word. Likes being married. See a disconnect here? The sexes can perceive the same event very differently --the affair!
Emme Posted November 30, 2011 Posted November 30, 2011 My feelings for her are quite clear. While I don't love her in a romantic sense, I do care for her... I mean, we shared some very intimate moments, mind you. I never said she was insignificant, but you'd be very surprised to know men often pursue things that are not up to par with what they REALLY desire... or haven't you been reading the hosts of threads where they just dump OW at the drop of a hat. Believe me... I'm a man, and I'm telling you this is VERY true. I think you’ve made it clear. You stated you cared for her but did not love her. That’s fine. What I am saying to you is that your emotions (posts) are more than you’re letting on. It seems everyone has an opinion and I have mine. If you disagree that’s fine. You are entitled to do so. All I will say is that in moving forward in life you seem to be focused more on the past with this other woman and also her future with her husband. Your level of caring is what I call more than the norm. That is what leads me to believe what I do. That’s all. I haven't posted this aspect on my ongoing struggle because I feel this is between my wife and I. Suffice to say, I've done everything I can think of to repair and regain my wife's trust, but to no avail. I think she needs space to figure out her wants and needs... she deserves whatever time it requires to "get her sanity back," as she put it. I'm in limbo right now, and its ALL my doing... "Time to pay the fiddler." We don’t have to discuss your wife. We can just discuss you, no OW.
nofool4u Posted November 30, 2011 Posted November 30, 2011 I grow tired of reading how this is strictly a male issue --the desire for sexual variety and newness-- because it is not. Women certainly want or fantasize, or even act on it too. Oh I in now way every insinuate its just a male problem. Maybe it was my use of the word boning, because to bone you have a bone you probably thought? LOL Women can bone too. They can repetitively sit on one;)
Author despicableME Posted December 1, 2011 Author Posted December 1, 2011 Fond of the OW, cares for the OW, loves the intense naughty, sneaking-it-on-the run- sex, but never mentions the L word. Likes being married. See a disconnect here? The sexes can perceive the same event very differently --the affair! BINGO! I couldn't have said it better myself. I think you’ve made it clear. You stated you cared for her but did not love her. That’s fine. What I am saying to you is that your emotions (posts) are more than you’re letting on. It seems everyone has an opinion and I have mine. If you disagree that’s fine. You are entitled to do so. All I will say is that in moving forward in life you seem to be focused more on the past with this other woman and also her future with her husband. Your level of caring is what I call more than the norm. That is what leads me to believe what I do. That’s all. We're all entitled to our opinions, Emme. I just don't see what you're seeing. How am I focused on her and her marriage? The only thing that I can think of that bothers me is the fact that she told me she's NOT in love with him anymore. Why keep up the charade? He deserves to know the true state of their marriage. It doesn't mean we'll end up together if they should decide to split. That is not my intention. Our relationship(affair) is over. As with any other relationship, we just have to get over the feelings we shared and move on; this being the sticking point.
RickFox Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 I tend to agree with Emme on this. By simply caring for her your wouldn't be so messed up, you wouldn't be here looking for answers. What is to answer? You ended it, you aren't connected, you merely cared at the time it's over now so really who cares about her relationship with her husband? Why waste any energy over it when it no longer matters. I was the straight laced guy too, never cheated, but after getting to know her for a year we had an affair and it was supposed to be for fun. I ended up falling for her pretty damn bad and a hard time moving forward, still do. If I simply just cared for her it'd have been a non issue but it went deeper than that. I do think you're in denial about the level of emotion you truly felt, may not have been deeply in love but I think it goes deeper than simply caring.
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