Women who get persnickity when you like them for their appearance

[Negative Nancy]

We have very different points of view, probably stemming from very different experiences.

 

I disagree with your perceptions of men, and their desires, on the whole. In fact, I find your characterizations of men offensive, as if they do not appreciate the women in their life. I think that is bull, and insulting to men and boys.

 

She didn't say men don't appreciate the women in their life...sure they appreciate them, what's not to appreciate about someone who keeps your home clean and cozy, who washes your stinky socks, who cooks for you and who you can turn to after you've worked yourself up over a hot porn session?

 

but as you may know - or not - there's a difference between appreciating and actually wanting. men might appreciate good ol' housewifey, but secretly wish the hot blonde young maxim cover model would just step out of that magazine and go at it with him. and if a man had that chance, he'd probably trade in his ol' plain jane in a heartbeat.

 

that is the ugly truth for 99 % of men.

[xxoo]

but as you may know - or not - there's a difference between appreciating and actually wanting. men might appreciate good ol' housewifey, but secretly wish the hot blonde young maxim cover model would just step out of that magazine and go at it with him. and if a man had that chance, he'd probably trade in his ol' plain jane in a heartbeat.

 

that is the ugly truth for 99 % of men.

 

Bull.

 

Men aren't stupid.

 

Most married men I know did not marry the hottest woman they dated. If they did, it was because the hottest woman they dated was also the best woman they dated.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

We have very different points of view, probably stemming from very different experiences.

 

I disagree with your perceptions of men, and their desires, on the whole. In fact, I find your characterizations of men offensive, as if they do not appreciate the women in their life. I think that is bull, and insulting to men and boys.

 

Well I never once characterized men as not appreciating the women in their life and you darn well know it XXOO. Just because I think there are a lot of issues today regarding sex for both men and women, doesn't equate to saying men are horrible people. And until we are able to acknowledge that, and talk honestly about gender issues without feeling we are crucifying the other gender when we know each gender has their own weaknesses that can lead to disrespect for the other, we aren't going to get anywhere.

 

You've made some heavy assumptions about me. I asked you very rationally to further explain them. Instead of doing that, you went in for another personal character attack. You couldn't even answer most of the questions I asked you to prove your personal character attacks. And what makes it further annoying is you don't even have a firm grasp of my point of view, obvious through the number of times you wrongly state it.

 

I think it's way more offensive to limit men to their visualness and make that all about what masculinity is about. The assumption that anything visual men do, just because it feels good and their men, is more harmful then not.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

Quiet Storm

I disagree totally with this. You must not watch any Ravens games.

 

Nope, but I watch the Jets and they now have cheerleaders. I'm a season ticket holder and been to enough games to hear the guys comments. Funny enough but some guys love the cheerleaders and other guys boo them. Regardless of this, men are ever evolving and the men of today are different from the men of their father's generation. Men are not as simplistic in their wants and needs and roles in life as maybe generations ago where men were really just defined through their work. Today, dad's can be stay at homes, they pick up the kids, they might even have custody of their kids. Men today are different in some ways. They require different relationships then their father's did. Of course, some things will always remain the same. But many things change as well. Through my work in advertising, the dumbed-down-girl-in-little-clothes ploy doesn't as easily impress the men of today that it did 20-30 years ago. That's just a reality in the business.

 

 

As women, we aren't intentionally offending men by looking sexy. And men aren't intentionally offending women by watching porn. If the opposite sex gets offended by either scenario, that's on them. It's related to their own insecurities, IMO. They can feel offended and whine and cry about how unfair it is, but to expect other's to change their behavior because some people are too sensitive? I say toughen up. I'm not going to dress in a frumpy long dress because some guy can't get laid, and I don't expect men to stop watching porn because some women think it's wrong.

 

Again, comparing a woman walking by a man on the street, a rather unpurposefull action, with a man seeking out porn for sexual gratification, a deliberate action, are completely two sistuations.

 

Although to make the completely all inclusive statement that "if the opposite sex gets offended by either scenario, that's on them", is certainly stretching it. Considering that situations arrise that should be taken on a case by case basis. Did the couple agree not to view porn in their relationships? Did the woman walk by naked infront of a elementary school when children where being let out? I live near a town that has a really strong Hasidic Jew community and they are usually covered head to toe. If someone of that cultural due to their own beliefs is offended by someone that walks by with their boobs hanging out, is that insecurity or just their personal beliefs? Now if the personal that feels offended takes it to the next level to be abusive to the person they are offended by, that's a different matter.

 

It doesn't go unnoticed when you do this kind of stuff QuiteStorm. How often you try to tell me, obviously indirectly as slip it into various conversatoins, how wrong my views on porn are or how it's all tied to insecurity. You don't expect men to stop watching porn because "some" woman finds it wrong. Good for you. But that alone doesn't mean your a more secure individual and have a healthier perspective on it. And my views on porn don't mean I'm an insecure one. I have my insecurities like everyone else but most of my views on porn are pretty well balanced.

 

But why is men objectifying women (by looking at them or commenting on their body) neanderthal behavior? I think modern men do exert control. A neaderthal wouldn't just look, he would touch and take it.

 

A man certainly can find a woman attractive without objectfying her.

 

I don't think much in our society is about controlling ourselves. From over weight people, to how many people are in debt because they couldn't control their spending, to how increased perscription drug abuse has become..ingeneral, we are not really a society that practices tons of control.

 

Men can be emotional and sweet and have feelings and love their wives...and still objectify women. It's not so black & white.

 

Yes they can. And that is exactly why it's an important discussion to have. Because it's only one facet of men. But it's still a facet of them. No one, no man or woman is all bad or all good. A man can love his wife and still objectify women. But that doesn't mean we should stop talking about how we treat and see one another. Our roles are ever changing. Our desires and needs within a relationship are ever changing.

 

I have no doubt that men are capable of controlling their "looking". When I am out alone, I get tons of looks. When I am out with my husband...I get no looks. They can control it, they just choose not to.

 

Exactly! Men *can* totally control themselves. And if they respect their partner, for the most part, they will.

 

I get tons of looks too. But what is most disappointing is to see men out with their wives or kids or both, giving you a look. Now you clearly wouldn't agree but to me, that's about a man not enjoying his own company and keeping one eye out for visuals that make him happy instead of focusing on his family. But don't worry QuiteStorm, I wouldn't be so remiss as to not acknowledge that you disagree with me.

 

I think people can evolve, and culture can change...but I think a man's physical attraction to the female body will always be constant across all cultures and generations. Just like most women will always think babies are cute.

 

Absoluetely man's physical attractoin to the female body will always be constant. However, what changes is behavior and what is perceived to be attractive. Especally from culture to culture and generation to generation. And I think all this visual media with distorted photoshopped images has mishaped expectations about women and their bodies. Especially for the younger generations.

 

It's funny but men of 20 years ago didn't need the steady stream of porn they seem to need now to function. Men of 20 years ago might..might have gotten a Playboy magazine once a month. But now it/s 24/7 and its shapping our interactions and beliefs about one another in new ways that are still being discovered. And not all these ways are positives.

[Pompom]

Nothing wrong with liking a pretty picture, especially since that Like button doesn't have any profound meaning anyways. It would be wrong to be in a relationship just for her appearance, since that would mean her personality etc. aren't worth much, and once the appearance would get less pretty, she'd find herself lonely.

So as long as you just superficially like her pretty pictures, that's fine. If you start asking her out just for her looks, then she's right to want her inner values appreciated first and foremost.

[xxoo]

Well I never once characterized men as not appreciating the women in their life and you darn well know it XXOO.

 

I don't "darn well" know any such thing. That is how you come across to me.

 

You say men "settle" for their average wives. I say they fall in love with them, and adore them. You say men need images to "sustain" them in marriage to average partners. I say they are extra, a bit of fun, but their real partner is far more fulfilling. Porn sustains no one.

 

Women are not so different. Women are naturally drawn to certain face and body-types, too, but most eventually fall in love with a more average guy. My guy's face is my FAVORITE face. His touch, his smell, his body and voice...all these things are highly erotic to me. He sustains me. Still, I'll notice a hot man, on the street or in an advertisement, and indulge in a quick fantasy. I'll objectify the hell out of that man for 3 seconds, and segue back into being a wife and mom

[xxoo]

most of my views on porn are pretty well balanced.

 

You are one of the most prolific LS posters on this topic, with one of the most extreme positions on the topic.

 

I agree with some of your concerns regarding porn, but not to the same degree.

[KR10N]

Still, I'll notice a hot man, on the street or in an advertisement, and indulge in a quick fantasy. I'll objectify the hell out of that man for 3 seconds, and segue back into being a wife and mom

You do that w/ every guy you find attractive?

[xxoo]

You do that w/ every guy you find attractive?

 

Not every guy. I do it more around ovulation, when I am hormonally "hornier".

 

But, yeah, I do it a lot, and have my whole adult life.

 

Is that odd?

 

Now I'm curious what others think/feel when they see someone they find attractive, if not a fleeting urge to press flesh....

Edited November 18, 2011 by xxoo

[Quiet Storm]

If I am secure that my husband loves me. Him glancing at another woman is no more disrespectful to me than him glancing at a Rolls that just went by. He is just noticing something attractive. He is not trying to hook up with the woman.

 

I don’t know, DY, your posts just come off like you want to change men. You say all this “I know men are better than that” stuff when they are just being themselves. You want men to accept women for who they are (saggy boobs and all) but don’t accept men for who they are….because in your opinion, they can be “better”.

 

If a man said to a woman “I know you can be better than this” and asked that she get fake boobs, you would say that is wrong. But it’s okay for you to talk down to men, and attack a huge part of their sexuality (visual stimulation).

 

I don’t think you understand men very well, AT ALL. Men are loving, emotional, sweet, respectful AND dirty, nasty, primal and raw. They have the capability to watch porn, admire hot women…and still be 100% in love and satisfied with their woman, cellulite and all.

Edited November 18, 2011 by Quiet Storm

[KR10N]

Not every guy. I do it more around ovulation, when I am hormonally "hornier".

 

But, yeah, I do it a lot, and have my whole adult life.

 

Is that odd?

 

Now I'm curious what others think/feel when they see someone they find attractive, if not a fleeting urge to press flesh....

I really don't know if that's odd or not but I know that's something I don't do...

 

I have seen men before that I found attractive but it never went any further in my own mind. Ya know, just a innocent glance & an immediate "gosh that dude is hot/handsome."

 

I keep all comments to myself of course, for fear that the guy might hear me (or perhaps his wife or girlfriend over-hear it & the crazy chick attacks me) lol.

[OnyxSnowfall]

Not every guy. I do it more around ovulation, when I am hormonally "hornier".

 

But, yeah, I do it a lot, and have my whole adult life.

 

Is that odd?

 

Now I'm curious what others think/feel when they see someone they find attractive, if not a fleeting urge to press flesh....

 

 

Mm can't say I do it... I don't have fleeting urges to press flesh with strangers either though.............. regardless of how they look heh. I suppose I just don't really react one way or the other. All kinds of things have to align in order to get me sexually attracted to someone (or sexually aroused by them).........

[xxoo]

All I have to do is be ovulating and within 50 ft of a reasonably attractive man to have a sexual thought

 

Is there a difference between "attractive" and "sexually attractive" for some women?

 

For men?

[irc333]

Funny, one time I was out somewhere, and it was early in the morning, and this woman was kind of self-critizing how she looked that morning, and some guy agreed, and pointed something out about her appearance, her hair was a bit messy or something.

 

THen , some guy said, "Dude, just future advice, if you're wanting a girlfriend, or ever wanting to date, never say what you just said to her to a woman."

 

We got a chuckle out of it, but it's funny how the other way around, even slightly, that was the worst thing to do.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

xxoo

I don't "darn well" know any such thing. That is how you come across to me

.

 

XXOO, I have made a sincere attempt to understand how I come across to you by asking you certain questions and asking for qoutes that lead you to the beliefs you formed specifically of me. Unless your able to follow through with this discussion and openlly discuss comments with me and answer the reasonable questions I've asked you without overtly leaning heavily on your whole "that's just how I feel", I find your comments rather slanderous and lacking in sincerity. I'd be able to have more respect for your opinion if you were actually able to fully discuss what I've said that lead you to those beliefs instead of repeatidly saying that basically "just how you feel". You don't get to sit there and make accusations about my thoughts and character on the back of "that's just the way I feel". Otherwise, it's just slander.

 

 

You say men "settle" for their average wives. I say they fall in love with them, and adore them. You say men need images to "sustain" them in marriage to average partners. I say they are extra, a bit of fun, but their real partner is far more fulfilling. Porn sustains no one.

 

We disagree. I am okay with this. I don't feel the need to degenerate your character into things they aren't just because we disagree.

 

But let me address some of the points you've made in more details since you rather over simplified my point of view. I think certain men honestly do settle for a more average woman. That doesn't mean they don't fall in love with them. However, it does me that they will most likely spend the rest of their relationship migrating between the love they have for a partner and seeking out visuals of variety in women. I think variety within a relationship takes the focus off where it should be and brings all kinds of outside things that actualy present more issues and less closeness. I am not one that thinks porn brings people closer together. It does seem to me tnat many men in today's culture need images to sustain them with their regular partner. I have even heard men say as much where for whatever reason, porn manages to keep them from actually cheating on their partner. There is that old age comment "what would a woman rather have happen, her man actually cheat on her or just look at porn" (IE, meaning just thinking about cheating on her). I think many men are very likely to place the women in their lives in boxes. Fantasy woman fit in one box, wives and girlfriends in another. Each being taken out to play with when *he* desires. Both fulfilling a purpose to his life. Now, just because I believe that, I in no way think men are awful people. They have many wonderful qualties. But they also have issues. Just as women do in their own ways. And being open and able to talk about these things without reducing everything to "you just hate men!" is rather illogical. Porn is an issue today to me. But this is no way discredits your own point of view if it's different. This is just what I believe.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

You are one of the most prolific LS posters on this topic, with one of the most extreme positions on the topic.

 

I agree with some of your concerns regarding porn, but not to the same degree.

 

I doubt you can even state my opinion on porn correctly XXOO since you've gotten so much of my thoughts on this wrong to begin with. People that tend to exploit my comments to "extreme positions" aren't ever really able to articulate my true position on the topic.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

Quiet Storm

If I am secure that my husband loves me. Him glancing at another woman is no more disrespectful to me than him glancing at a Rolls that just went by. He is just noticing something attractive. He is not trying to hook up with the woman.

 

I am very happy for you that you are secure that your husband loves you. I fully encourage you to carry on your relationship in whatever manner works for you and your husband. You and your husband, within your relationships, maintain the right to judge what is respectful behavior in it or not. Just as everyone is allowed to do in their own relationships. Just because someone else differ from you in what they desire and expect out of a relationship, doesn't make them wrong.

 

For me, there is a difference between objectively noticing the attractiveness of someone else, and indulging in fantasies of them to the point where they become a singluar focus whether it's for 3 seconds or 5 minutes or 5 years if they are repeatidly used for sexual fodder.

 

 

I don’t know, DY, your posts just come off like you want to change men.

 

And your posts come off as your trying to change anyone that doesn't see like like yourself. From this topic to the topic about how your husband wouldn't have wanted you at 35, had he met you then, but since he met and married you when you were young, it's all peaches and cream for you. You seem to insinuate your way of life is "best" and you often have this attitude that "boys will be boys" while you hold women to a standard you don't hold men to.

 

Seriously, at the end of the day, we all have an opinion and we all want to share it. We aren't that different.

 

You say all this “I know men are better than that” stuff when they are just being themselves. You want men to accept women for who they are (saggy boobs and all) but don’t accept men for who they are….because in your opinion, they can be “better”.

 

No, not "can"..."are". Society in general really does a huge disservice to men prescribing them to backhanded compliments. The old "boys will be boys" mentaility isn't that really great for men. It really actually limits them.

 

I would urge you to check out the website Good Man Project and you will see a host of men trying to redfine what it means to be a man in an authentic and serious way. With sensitivity and insight that goes beyond the shallow images society often attempts to hold over men's heads claiming that's all they can or should be. I would safely bet a lot of men can relate to what I just typed.

 

 

If a man said to a woman “I know you can be better than this” and asked that she get fake boobs, you would say that is wrong. But it’s okay for you to talk down to men, and attack a huge part of their sexuality (visual stimulation).

 

What I said is "men are better thant that" not "I know you men can be better!" Don't misrepresent my words for your own agenda.

 

Further, I never once attacked men's visualness. I'm really sick of these ploys of yours. What I did say is that male visualness has the potential to be both good and bad. That men can use it in positive ways or negative ways. That it can be over abused and often in in media today. yes or no? Sounds pretty logical doesn't it? We disagree on what is positive and negative use of male visualness. And I am okay with that. But dont you dare sit there and say I attacked men for their visualness when I didn't. You choose to falsey misrepresent what I say because of your personal beliefs. Not because of anything I acutally said.

 

 

I don’t think you understand men very well, AT ALL. Men are loving, emotional, sweet, respectful AND dirty, nasty, primal and raw. They have the capability to watch porn, admire hot women…and still be 100% in love and satisfied with their woman, cellulite and all.

 

I don't think you understand human beings very well. But I do agree with your statement about who and what men are. People in general are capable of a wide range of thoughts and feelings. That doesn't mean that men and women don't experience problems in their relationship or that they shouldn't work on them or not work on how they see or treat the other gender. You pretty much just said that because men are multifaceted, just like women are, there should be no problems between the genders. That there should be no issues. that men should be given everything they want just because they are capable of expressing a wide range of feelings and emotions, just like women. And I think you know better then that.

[dispatch3d]

"what else are you good at?"

 

or like ,did she facebook her reply in and put (rude tone) in as well?

[Dust]

girls like it when you write something humerously perverse about their sexy pictures. Something random like "yum, yum!"

[joystickd]

I doubt you can even state my opinion on porn correctly XXOO since you've gotten so much of my thoughts on this wrong to begin with. People that tend to exploit my comments to "extreme positions" aren't ever really able to articulate my true position on the topic.

 

Well articulate your true position for everyone.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

I have through out my comments around this website Joystick. Some of those comments are in this very thread. If someone has a specific question they need cleared up, go ahead and ask and I am happy to respond.

Edited November 19, 2011 by Disenchantedly Yours

[dasein]

Okay, there's this female friend I have on FB, she had put some pictures up of her recent trip to Cancun, posing in a bikini, I have to say she's a rather attrataive Latina woman, and I "Liked" those specific photos, and said, "I'm enjoying the view" with a wink next to the comment.

 

She even had a short video clip of herself posing and being sexy/cute at the beach.

 

She sent me a message stating even though she appreciates the compliments and me "liking" her pictures, that she would like to be thought of more than just a pretty face.

 

The response for those is "Sorry babe, I can't masturbate to a diploma, tried and it doesn't work. BTW, could you send me some pictures without the bikini?"

 

Only half kidding, and disagree with some others who say she isn't interested in OP. That's not necessarily true. OP did she remove the comments? or leave them up? A woman in a happy relationship is not as likely to post pictures that show off her body in this way IME. She is subtly getting herself "out there" most likely and her response to you was a challenge, "what have you got to say about that?" She's looking for a clever retort that ramps up tension while maintaining respect and cool. Women like men who have control of a very healthy libido IME. Your initial comments were so trite that I'm amazed she said anything at all. In the future, comment on something else in the picture and the appropriate message will be sent.

 

She gave you a perfect softball opportunity for "Put your money where your mouth is, can you go to the museum/gallery/college cultural event next Xday?" If she says no, just text her a picture of your johnson and move on.

 

OK truly seriously, the image you present of yourself to the world is the one people will respond to, whether it's a pushup bra and lace stockings or a blog post on new developments in theoretical physics. Scolding people for responding to the image one chose to present is hypocritical. Some of the rationalizations here about why she posted the pics and for whom are hilarious.

[xxoo]

How much more value younger women have then older women? How much in men's media focuses mostly on a narrow type of women. Maxim, Playboy, Music Videos, Football games with cheerleaders...young, slim, pretty, big breasts...

 

I just happened to have a current copy of Maxim right here, lol, and I did something I usually don't do....paid attention to the "stats" for the featured women.

 

This month"s cover girl is young (24).

 

The other featured women are NOT in their 20s.

 

Hannah Simone is 30.

Leilani Dowling is 31.

Kym Johnson is 35.

 

They are all fit and pretty. They all have breasts in proportionto their size.

[xxoo]

For me, there is a difference between objectively noticing the attractiveness of someone else, and indulging in fantasies of them to the point where they become a singluar focus whether it's for 3 seconds or 5 minutes or 5 years if they are repeatidly used for sexual fodder.

 

What is the value difference? Why is one right and one wrong?

[Disenchantedly Yours]

I just happened to have a current copy of Maxim right here, lol, and I did something I usually don't do....paid attention to the "stats" for the featured women.

 

This month"s cover girl is young (24).

 

The other featured women are NOT in their 20s.

 

Hannah Simone is 30.

Leilani Dowling is 31.

Kym Johnson is 35.

 

They are all fit and pretty. They all have breasts in proportionto their size.

 

How does this disprove anything I said?

 

I said and you qouted:

 

How much more value younger women have then older women? How much in men's media focuses mostly on a narrow type of women. Maxim, Playboy, Music Videos, Football games with cheerleaders...young, slim, pretty, big breasts...

 

Don't all these women seem to apply to exactly what I said? Come on, all those girls you mentioned are gorgeous. Young. Perfect Bodies. Big Breasts. Slim. Yes or no?