Martian Posted November 14, 2011 Posted November 14, 2011 Summary of my situation: Started dating my wife 17 years ago. We have 2 kids (5 and 11). I lived in a sexless marriage for about 10 years (<10 occasions per year). We live abroad, I've got my dream job and she's a stay at home mom with few prospects of employment in our current country of residence. We're pretty much staying together for the kids. We don't argue or anything, but I have to beg for sex and when it happens it's the "lie back and think of England" type. I try to be affectionate, but I don't feel like I'm getting enough of that either. My self confidence as a man is in a terrible shape. One of the things I started was working out to help with this, but it didn't help at all in my marriage. I got close to seeking divorce many times, but I'm certain that no one else could give the love and parental support to my kids that I can. I don't think I can support 2 houselholds on 1 salary, so if we break up, they/we will have to move to a country with crappier schools and a much worse economic situation (and different culture). I got to know someone online and over the years I shared experiences with with her (she lives in our home country). We've grown to be friends and I tried to support he as she described her own continuing saga of failed relationships. (She's single, and unlike me, actually has a sex life.) Unsurprisingly, over the years the friendship and mutual support turned into something more. I met her twice. First time nothing happened. But later she was in town not so long ago, we got really drunk made out and I took her to her hotel room. There was no sex, but that's only because I resisted, trying to be a responsible family man. She's going to be in town again and she tells me that she wants to meet me and get in bed. She also invited me to spend a weekend in her apartment when I can. I never had an affair during my marriage and I try to be honest and responsible. I pretty much never lie to my wife about anything and she knows that she can trust me. Yet now I find myself scheming about meeting this other woman somewhere / somehow. I'm torn. I don't want to be selfish and jeopardize my kids' future. But she offers me what I was deprived of for years: affection and the feeling that I can be attractive as a man.
Severely Unamused Posted November 15, 2011 Posted November 15, 2011 I don't suppose your wife is okay with an open marriage?
bentnotbroken Posted November 15, 2011 Posted November 15, 2011 You aren't drifting toward anything. You are running head long...but sexless is as good an excuse as any I guess.
Breezy Trousers Posted November 15, 2011 Posted November 15, 2011 Martian, love fog is powerful illusory stuff, so you have my complete sympathy. I nearly went bonkers when I was struck with it three years ago (--married nearly 20 yrs here). Are you dealing a mild depression of sorts (mid-life crisis)? Have you had a recent death in the family? Any sort of loss? Lots of times unacknowledged grief, depression or loss will move men into an affair. Affairs enliven people, lift the spirits ... for a while, anyway. Then affair partners have to play games -- cut-the-affair-off, come-back together drama -- to keep the artificial highs going... but that's another thread.... Anyway, if you don't do anything with this (no contact) and you have the capacity to be self-honest, time and reality will cure this. But please stop lying to yourself. You're already in an affair. It's an emotional affair (EA) .... I notice a lot of men justify "it's not really an affair" if they don't regularly place their penis inside the woman they are texting and loving on all all day. It's the same perverse logic of young Christians who insist they are sexually abstinent because they only do oral & anal sex. Please. You already know what to do. Your only way out of this is to take full responsibility for the state of your marriage, to quit justifying your actions, and start telling the truth. You just may not be inclined to do that.
whichwayisup Posted November 15, 2011 Posted November 15, 2011 I don't want to be selfish and jeopardize my kids' future Then don't be selfish and jeopardize your kids' future. It really is that simple. Either tell your wife that you're 'this close' to cheating on her, that you really miss the intimacy and want it back in your marriage, need to feel loved and desired by her, or tell your wife that it's time to divorce. Or, you suck it up and focus on the better things in your marriage and slowly with the help of counselling and communicating with your wife, get your sex life back. Ask your wife to seek medical help, see her Dr, maybe there's something wrong. Depression, hormones, who knows .. Either way, something can be fixed/happen. You love your wife, you love being a father, a family man. You haven't physically cheated (yet), so don't!! Just..Don't. Spend that love and energy, passion into making your wife feel loved, desired by you and hopefully in time she will open up again and you two will get back what you once had. It can be fixed..But if you go bang another woman, not only are you a cheater, but you also 'invite' someone else into your marriage, into your life.. It'll complicate things and also, what if that OW falls in love with you and then you have that to deal with. Or imagine the OW going bunny boiler on you and doing something dangerous. Never say never.
Author Martian Posted November 15, 2011 Author Posted November 15, 2011 Thanks for the responses so far. Severely Unamused: no I don't think my wife would be ok with open marriage. I wouldn't be either. I don't think I could even deal with a long term affair. If it doesn't end quickly I probably divorce her. Breezy Trousers: it's less like a depression and more like 5+ years of failed attempts to make my marriage work. This EA didn't escalate until a few weeks (or actually days) ago. Until then anything I've done or said, could have been between me and my best male buddy. Now it would be awkward... whichwayisup: I confronted my wife about our marriage several times over the years. Told her that I don't feel loved and that I couldn't imagine that if she had no feelings for me any more we stayed together for these long years. (TBH I suspected her of having an affair for a while.) But I think she's ready to do just that. She's devoted to her kids, a great mother and I truly admire her for that. I kept on trying. And sometimes I felt that there was a glimmer of hope. But to be honest there's hardly a day when I don't think about our marriage and our future. About once a year it ends up in a confrontation, but not much changes.
Severely Unamused Posted November 16, 2011 Posted November 16, 2011 (edited) I probably divorce her.Seems like you're delaying the inevitable...agreed? Edited November 16, 2011 by Severely Unamused
Breezy Trousers Posted November 16, 2011 Posted November 16, 2011 (edited) You are early enough in this EA. You can easily end this and use it as a "come to Jesus" moment for your marriage, get therapy and turn things around. However -- If you're fed up with your marriage, why not end this affair, begin divorce proceedings and call the OW six months after the divorce is granted and you are settled? What's the big hurry? If your relationship with OW is meant to be, it will happen. It will unfold in a way which supports your integrity and hers. If OW is a mature, loving person who is truly committed to you, she will wait it out. She'll leave you alone to work things out with your family --- with their ability to trust intact and your integrity intact. Why does OW have to be there to provide you with a soft landing as you exit your marriage (and as you leave your family to deal with the explosive aftermath)? .... Are you afraid to be on your own? I know the addictive pull of love fog. It causes people to rewrite the entire history of their marriages overnight. Please be careful here. Edited November 16, 2011 by Breezy Trousers
Author Martian Posted November 16, 2011 Author Posted November 16, 2011 Thanks for the responses everyone. I had a serious talk with my wife about our marriage today. We both agreed that: - it's not in a great state (I asked her and she gave it a 3 on a scale of 10) - what we tried so far to fix it didn't work She told me that we should try separation. I asked specifically what would happen if it comes to divorce. I was relieved when she said that she'd stay and try to find a job in this town. I always worried that she'd move from the country and I had to follow her if I wanted to see the kids. So that's good. She told me that I'm hard to communicate with, I don't listen and I don't treat her as an equal partner. I admit to having made mistakes in this department. Sometimes when I get frustrated instead of an angry conversation I shut down. I hate the shouting and making scenes. I ratger just leave. I'll have to work on this. But tbh I don't think this one thing alone led to where we are today. I'll need to talk to her to find out more. I told her that I still loved her. I showed her the Harley books I got that I'm reading to improve our situation. I just feel frustrated because nothing that I tried so far seem to have worked. I look at her and I want to make her smile. I want to hold her hand. I want to see her happy. She told me that she doesn't believe that our relationship in its current form can be fixed. That the person I think I love is not real her, it's the woman who takes care of my kids and who waits for me at home. That I need to get to know the real her. After all those years she seemed to be more honest with me than any time I remember. That's good. But she scared me. This was someone else, someone I haven't seen before. In the morning I hugged and kissed my wife and smiled at her and she smiled back. (Tried to do the right things based on the His Needs, Her Needs book.) But this woman talking to me in the car looked like a whole new person. She resented me. She was angry with me. It was a Jekyll and Hide moment. If this is the new, the real her, who was hiding inside all these years than I don't know what I'm going to do. I felt so much resentment and anger in her. I can't see how this person would want to do anything with me. And TBH I can't see myself working hard to have a relationship with her. She's not the wife I knew and think I loved. I was very upset. What I thought my marriage was, turned out to be a facade, a pure fantasy. Even worse than I expected. I hope this will pass. I'll go through with the separation. I'll try to talk to her honestly and openly more, it's been long overdue. I'll stop the EA, I don't think it was anything serious. Yet.
Breezy Trousers Posted November 17, 2011 Posted November 17, 2011 Thanks for the responses everyone. But she scared me. This was someone else, someone I haven't seen before. In the morning I hugged and kissed my wife and smiled at her and she smiled back. (Tried to do the right things based on the His Needs, Her Needs book.) But this woman talking to me in the car looked like a whole new person. She resented me. She was angry with me. It was a Jekyll and Hide moment. If this is the new, the real her, who was hiding inside all these years than I don't know what I'm going to do. I felt so much resentment and anger in her. I can't see how this person would want to do anything with me. And TBH I can't see myself working hard to have a relationship with her. She's not the wife I knew and think I loved. I was very upset. What I thought my marriage was, turned out to be a facade, a pure fantasy. Even worse than I expected. Well, things have certainly shifted! Mircea makes great recommendations. I'll add two more to the pile: Michele invented the 180 that Mircea is referring to: http://www.divorcebusting.com/ Byron Katie: http://www.thework.com/index.php Both are radical tools for turning a marriage around. Of course, you and your wife may no longer be on the same page concerning that. It sounds like your marriage lacked intimacy. (Incidentally, I wouldn't put too much stock in that look you saw on your wife's face -- it's really just your interpretation, based on where you are standing right now. Please check out the Byron Katie link to see what I mean ...) Affairs are light and easy recreation, especially for men (who are wired differently from women). All beginnings are fun & exciting. Marriages are different. They involve reality & the real work of intimacy. I'm certainly not anti-divorce but have seen two people decide an affair would be an easy fix for their life, leave a marriage for it, only to have regrets 5 years down the road. I hope you are given the chance to explore all possibilities. Best of luck to you.
StoneCold Posted November 17, 2011 Posted November 17, 2011 Thanks for the responses everyone. I had a serious talk with my wife about our marriage today. We both agreed that: - it's not in a great state (I asked her and she gave it a 3 on a scale of 10) - what we tried so far to fix it didn't work She told me that we should try separation. I asked specifically what would happen if it comes to divorce. I was relieved when she said that she'd stay and try to find a job in this town. I always worried that she'd move from the country and I had to follow her if I wanted to see the kids. So that's good. She told me that I'm hard to communicate with, I don't listen and I don't treat her as an equal partner. I admit to having made mistakes in this department. Sometimes when I get frustrated instead of an angry conversation I shut down. I hate the shouting and making scenes. I ratger just leave. I'll have to work on this. But tbh I don't think this one thing alone led to where we are today. I'll need to talk to her to find out more. I told her that I still loved her. I showed her the Harley books I got that I'm reading to improve our situation. I just feel frustrated because nothing that I tried so far seem to have worked. I look at her and I want to make her smile. I want to hold her hand. I want to see her happy. She told me that she doesn't believe that our relationship in its current form can be fixed. That the person I think I love is not real her, it's the woman who takes care of my kids and who waits for me at home. That I need to get to know the real her. After all those years she seemed to be more honest with me than any time I remember. That's good. But she scared me. This was someone else, someone I haven't seen before. In the morning I hugged and kissed my wife and smiled at her and she smiled back. (Tried to do the right things based on the His Needs, Her Needs book.) But this woman talking to me in the car looked like a whole new person. She resented me. She was angry with me. It was a Jekyll and Hide moment. If this is the new, the real her, who was hiding inside all these years than I don't know what I'm going to do. I felt so much resentment and anger in her. I can't see how this person would want to do anything with me. And TBH I can't see myself working hard to have a relationship with her. She's not the wife I knew and think I loved. I was very upset. What I thought my marriage was, turned out to be a facade, a pure fantasy. Even worse than I expected. I hope this will pass. I'll go through with the separation. I'll try to talk to her honestly and openly more, it's been long overdue. I'll stop the EA, I don't think it was anything serious. Yet. OK I'm confused....you're separating as a prerequisite for divorce? or you are separating to find the "real her" and fix things?
Richard Friedman Posted November 17, 2011 Posted November 17, 2011 A wife who makes her husband beg for sex deserves this and more. Not fit to be married.
Author Martian Posted November 17, 2011 Author Posted November 17, 2011 Mircea, thank for the tips, I downloaded the books you suggested from the Kindle store. Several years ago I complained to a close friend that my life didn't love me any more. He suggested that I start working out. Since then I go to the gym fairly regularly. I gained a nontrivial amount of upper body muscle and I think I'm in better shape than I ever was in my life. I got compliments from said friend, from highschool classmates at the reunion and the OW. Never from my wife though... First I worked out in the hope of making myself more attractive to her, but now it's more about dealing with frustration and restoring my self confidence as a man. Breezy Trousers thanks, I'll check out divorcebusting.com Actually my wife is trying to backpedal on the separation. I think she panicked. About every 12-18 months in the past 6 years, I talk to her very seriously about not being able to go on like this any more. I suggested separation several times. This was the first occasion when she brought it up. But after a stressful few days and a somewhat improved situation that doesn't last, we always fall back to the same patterns, without any long term improvement. I want this cycle to stop. I want to go through with the separation. I'm trying to convince her to also go the MC. She's very reluctant, says she can't open up in front of a stranger. I told her that I want to communicate and I'm ready to listen. I will keep listening. I wrote before that I never had an affair during my marriage. But my wife and I started dating in high school when we were 16. About 6 years later I broke up with her and started dating another girl. This hurt her really bad, I think because she knew that person and seen it a long time coming. She felt betrayed. The way she describes it, she still adored me at that time, but the way I remember, our relationship was running out of steam already. We got back together about 1 year later, I think. Got married when we were 25. I don't think she ever forgave me for breaking up with her. Now she tells me that she is consciously supressing her feelings for me, because she doesn't want to fall in love with me, because then I can hurt her again. I'm trying my best to hide it, but I'm actually really pissed about this. This was 14 years ago!! Her blaming 10 years of failed marriage on this is surreal! I think where we failed was complacency. I admit to taking her granted for the first few years. I focused too much on work, because I thought that a husband's job is to put money on the table. Then, as I recall there were a few years when pretty much nothing was going on in our marriage (sex, intimacy nothing) and neither of us were doing anything about it. Then about 6 years ago I realized just how bad it is and it needed fixing and that was the first time I confronted her and since then I feel that I'm the only one putting any effort into it. (With little success...) I can't explain why, but I think that despite all of this I still loved her up until now. I loved her even more than during those really dark years in our marriage. My only wish was that she loved me back. Told me that she didn't want to because when she did I hurt her. This pisses me off. I'm listening to Pantera, going to the gym and thinking about getting a f***** neck tattoo like Clooney had in Dusk Till Dawn.
frozensprouts Posted November 18, 2011 Posted November 18, 2011 not sure if this suggestion will be helpful to you or not, but have the two of you tried writng down your feelings and then exchanging what you have written so you can read and discuss each other's feelings? Sometimes it can be very helpful, as you will get to say exactly how you feel, and you can take your time and not worry about blurting something out in hurt or anger. Whn my husband and i were having issues, that was one of the things our marraige counselor suggested...I am attrocious at verbalizing my feelings, but if I write them down, i can get them out much more easily. She suggested i do that, in the form of a letter to my husband. I did, and it was very long ( it was written over the span of a few months- we were in a different situation than you though). If your wife finds verbal discussions difficult, maybe writing out her feelings would help her to share them with you
Breezy Trousers Posted November 18, 2011 Posted November 18, 2011 Mircea, thank for the tips, I downloaded the books you suggested from the Kindle store. Several years ago I complained to a close friend that my life didn't love me any more. He suggested that I start working out. Since then I go to the gym fairly regularly. I gained a nontrivial amount of upper body muscle and I think I'm in better shape than I ever was in my life. I got compliments from said friend, from highschool classmates at the reunion and the OW. Never from my wife though... First I worked out in the hope of making myself more attractive to her, but now it's more about dealing with frustration and restoring my self confidence as a man. Breezy Trousers thanks, I'll check out divorcebusting.com Actually my wife is trying to backpedal on the separation. I think she panicked. About every 12-18 months in the past 6 years, I talk to her very seriously about not being able to go on like this any more. I suggested separation several times. This was the first occasion when she brought it up. But after a stressful few days and a somewhat improved situation that doesn't last, we always fall back to the same patterns, without any long term improvement. I want this cycle to stop. I want to go through with the separation. I'm trying to convince her to also go the MC. She's very reluctant, says she can't open up in front of a stranger. I told her that I want to communicate and I'm ready to listen. I will keep listening. I wrote before that I never had an affair during my marriage. But my wife and I started dating in high school when we were 16. About 6 years later I broke up with her and started dating another girl. This hurt her really bad, I think because she knew that person and seen it a long time coming. She felt betrayed. The way she describes it, she still adored me at that time, but the way I remember, our relationship was running out of steam already. We got back together about 1 year later, I think. Got married when we were 25. I don't think she ever forgave me for breaking up with her. Now she tells me that she is consciously supressing her feelings for me, because she doesn't want to fall in love with me, because then I can hurt her again. I'm trying my best to hide it, but I'm actually really pissed about this. This was 14 years ago!! Her blaming 10 years of failed marriage on this is surreal! I think where we failed was complacency. I admit to taking her granted for the first few years. I focused too much on work, because I thought that a husband's job is to put money on the table. Then, as I recall there were a few years when pretty much nothing was going on in our marriage (sex, intimacy nothing) and neither of us were doing anything about it. Then about 6 years ago I realized just how bad it is and it needed fixing and that was the first time I confronted her and since then I feel that I'm the only one putting any effort into it. (With little success...) I can't explain why, but I think that despite all of this I still loved her up until now. I loved her even more than during those really dark years in our marriage. My only wish was that she loved me back. Told me that she didn't want to because when she did I hurt her. This pisses me off. I'm listening to Pantera, going to the gym and thinking about getting a f***** neck tattoo like Clooney had in Dusk Till Dawn. Your wife needs to get over her hurt regardless of whether you stay married. Her hurt and fear will affect her next relationship -- if she ever trusts enough to get into one. The Work of Byron Katie will help. It's hard for a WS to understand how shattering an affair is to a BS' sense of safety and trust in the world. The WS gets to play outside the marriage yet keep their sense of safety & trust intact. The BS gets no such fun & games but is left holding the bag of worms forever. That's probably what she is angry at you for - not you, specifically, but the forever damage done to her sense of security. But she needs to accept reality & move on. It sounds like she tried to ignore it but the resentment still manifested. I'm sorry about that. Yes, complacency is a scourge to any long term relationship. It's what makes affairs look so hot, exciting and promising. We haven't had time to judge the affair partner like we have our real partner. You and your wife are not alone in that.
Author Martian Posted November 18, 2011 Author Posted November 18, 2011 Thanks for the responses. frozensprouts yep, sometimes communicating in writing helps. I just dug out her email to me from about 5 years ago where I wanted to leave her. At that time I was in one of my I can't go on like this phases and after some probing I found out that he had some supposedly harmless flirting and kissing with other men. I got really pissed, because I felt that all my efforts to fix the marriage were in vain. She wrote then that I shouldn't leave because for the first time ever she has clarity about her feelings and that she can finally look at our relationship in a realistic way. What pisses me off and scares me at the same time is that what she said yesterday too. 5 friggin' years of misery and wasted efforts later. Now it's different, because she finally can face her feelings etc. Maybe she's honest and this is how she really feels but one thing is for sure, I can't trust her judgement. I remember when I asked her 5 years ago about what the problem was and what can I do to fix things she mentioned things like doing more household chores, spending more time with the kids etc. So I worked more on that. 2 years I made her fill out the Emotional Needs questionnaire: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4501_enq.html I worked more on the top items, like being more affectionate, expressing how important she is to me, complimenting her every day etc. 2 days ago it was communication and treating her as an equal partner. So I'm working hard on that, sit down with her and listen. Yesterday it was getting closure about the way I hurt her 10+ years ago. Whenever I ask her what her main problem really is, she gives inconsistent answers. There is pretty much no f****in overlap. It literally changes from day to day now!! Years ago I was very upset about this, I thought she was bull****ing me, and that she was hiding the true reason why she treats me this way. (I suspected an affair.) Now I think that she can't really tell or admit it to herself. Another thing that scares me is that she wants me to hug her, because as we talk she get really upset, crying etc. I'd love to do that, it's actually really hard not to, but I'm afraid that's not a good idea. Judging from past experiences we're pretty good at falling into each other's arms after occasions like this. Then all is well for a few days or so (we even make love for a change!) and then nothing improves and then in 12 months we're back to square 1. I want to keep some distance so that we follow through with understanding here resentment that she hid and built into a gigantic Ball of Bitterness deep inside. I feel like it poisoned our marriage and doomed any effort to fix it to failure. For all these long years.
frozensprouts Posted November 19, 2011 Posted November 19, 2011 it's very unfortuneate that you don't feel that the two of you have been able to work through some of your issues:(... i'm a bit confued... did you actually cheat on her years ago? if so, , do you think that you gave her plenty of opportunities to talk about how she felt? It can take a really long time to work through that, and it really can color someone's feelings and gtrust for a long time afterwards. One of the issues she seems to have identified as being important to her is that you don't communicate with each other... do you feel this is true? do you feel she tries, to the best of her ability, to communicate with you? Maybe she really can't identify what the root cause of her problem is...maybe it's kin d of a nebulous feeling that she can't quite pin down, but she tries to relate it as best she can. Do you think that you know what the problem is? that's the thing about a website like this...it's a great place to vent, get good advice and perspectives from a lot of different people, but it can be really hard to get a "complete" picture, as it's only possible to hear one side. This is why a counselor can be great...is there any way she would agree to seeing one with you?
frozensprouts Posted November 19, 2011 Posted November 19, 2011 for some clairification, I re-read your posts, and it sounds like, before you were married, you broke up with her to start seeing someone else. That may well be part of the problem. Even though it seems unfair, she may feel almost afraid to open herself up too much to you as, in her mind, you have shown that you can leave her to be with someone else. It sounds like the aftermath of that was never dealt with in a way that let her fully trust you again, which is sad. It does sound, though, that you have tried to be there for her throughout your marraige, and that you have tried your best to show her that she can trust you again, but, unfortuneately, he thought pattern may be so set now that it could be very hard for her to change it on her own. Has she ever had any kind of professional help with this? I hope that the two of you can find a way through all this that is good for your kids and the two of you...best of luck to you all:)
Author Martian Posted November 20, 2011 Author Posted November 20, 2011 it's very unfortuneate that you don't feel that the two of you have been able to work through some of your issues:(... [...] One of the issues she seems to have identified as being important to her is that you don't communicate with each other... do you feel this is true? do you feel she tries, to the best of her ability, to communicate with you? Reading a W. F. Harley books now I identified several mistakes I made w.r.t. communication. But our biggest mistake by far was simply not spending enough time with each other. She was busy with the kids from 6AM to 9PM every day sometimes even later, by the time she finished she was simply too tired to do anything with me. I loved watching comedy shows with her because I love the way she smiles but even those 30 minutes were a luxury that we could afford only once a week or so. I don't even dare to calculate exactly how little time the two of us spent alone. Maybe she really can't identify what the root cause of her problem is...maybe it's kin d of a nebulous feeling that she can't quite pin down, but she tries to relate it as best she can. Do you think that you know what the problem is? I don't blame here any more for being confused. We talked seriously about our marriage and how we recall these past ten years. Although it was stressful and we both cried at times, we really needed these conversations badly. I feel that they helped a lot. A big fear I have is that all this bagagge will make fixing our relationship a brutal uphill battle. I can see getting past the wounds from the past but changing all the bad habits will be extremely hard. And I have to admit, it's hard for me to completely forget about the OW. In my darker moments I think about a failed marriage that now both of us agree never really worked. All of our previous attempts to fix it over the years failed. Now we're separating, so what all the essential ingredients that were missing will be even harder to get: affection, communication, intimacy. And at the same time, there is the OW offering to give me exactly what I've been missing for all these years: a sense of being wanted, a sense of being loved. I'm trying to not to think of it this way, because I know it makes fixing my marriage an even more of an uphill battle, but it's not easy...
Author Martian Posted November 20, 2011 Author Posted November 20, 2011 It does sound, though, that you have tried to be there for her throughout your marraige, and that you have tried your best to show her that she can trust you again, but, unfortuneately, he thought pattern may be so set now that it could be very hard for her to change it on her own. Has she ever had any kind of professional help with this? No, but I think our recent conversations helped a lot. And you're right, what you're reading here is only my side of the story and probably very biased. I'm probably not as great as a husband as I like to think I am... I hope that the two of you can find a way through all this that is good for your kids and the two of you...best of luck to you all:) Thank you!
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