Elizabeth Southerns Posted November 15, 2011 Posted November 15, 2011 As in such a case, a BS who knows, accepts but decides the terms of how the spouse is going to conduct this EMR is the one I guess pulling the strings... :eek: :eek: The BS decides the terms of the A - of which they are not a part??? :eek: :eek: What kind of MP or AP allows that? (Or do they just allow the BS to think they're deciding the terms....? ) Surely Rs are determined by those that are in them - not those that are outside of them?
donnamaybe Posted November 15, 2011 Posted November 15, 2011 Surely Rs are determined by those that are in them - not those that are outside of them?Yep. And there are THREE in that type of R. :eek: :eek: :eek:
Elizabeth Southerns Posted November 15, 2011 Posted November 15, 2011 Yep. And there are THREE in that type of R. :eek: :eek: :eek: I've never seen an A consisting of 3 people that wasn't poly. I guess I've led a sheltered life
donnamaybe Posted November 15, 2011 Posted November 15, 2011 I've never seen an A consisting of 3 people that wasn't poly. I guess I've led a sheltered life No such thing as an A without a third party. Isn't that common knowledge?
2sure Posted November 15, 2011 Posted November 15, 2011 All affairs involves three people. In an affair that is hidden from one of the married partners or in an affair that is part of an open marriage. The marriage is the relationship that dictates what can and cannot happen in the affair.
Author MissBee Posted November 15, 2011 Author Posted November 15, 2011 (edited) :eek: :eek: The BS decides the terms of the A - of which they are not a part??? :eek: :eek: What kind of MP or AP allows that? (Or do they just allow the BS to think they're deciding the terms....? ) Surely Rs are determined by those that are in them - not those that are outside of them? Stranger things have happened you must realize... One can't control the ins and outs of the relationship, but rather I should have made it clear:control how it interacts with their life and the life they've established as a public couple. Like an AP gets to decide what he or she will deal with from the MP, a BS, is still the husband or wife of the WS and so too can he or she decide what will happen in that marriage with regards to EMRs. I cited relationships where the WS is not leaving the marriage and especially when kids, appearances and prestige are involved, a WS who does not want to lose that is more apt to agree to certain terms, example: I don't care if you have an OW...just don't let anyone else in our lives find out. In fact, MANY have posted here on LS about A BS wielding kids as weapons or the ever popular line that a MM is "stuck" because of the BS doing XYZ.... we don't have to stray very far to find these examples here. While some of these MM esp may be lying or just cowardly to leave...the point is, there exists a dynamic in which they feel like the BS will ruin their lives or relationship with the kids etc if they don't do XYZ. How many OW/OM lament over the MP not being able to do XYZ because of their spouse? Too many to mention. Dating someone committed elsewhere always means...they're committed elsewhere and like dating someone under aged, the parents aren't directly controlling the relationship, but if your partner has a curfew or relies on the parents for support etc...the parents do wield control over what can and cannot happen and that person will act in a way conducive to them continuing to get what their parents provide and not making the parents upset...so if the parents don't like you, then you probably have to be a secret for that reason. Forget under aged, even in regular situations, people who have a lot of allegiance to their families, will sometimes date people their family doesn't like but try to juggle the two: which often produces a dynamic of lots of compromise, downplaying, hiding etc on the parts of people who won't stand up to them. Likewise, same dynamic in an A...the BS like it or not exists and most often has some influence in that person's life....that can make or break things and thus the MP's hiding things from them or needing to appease them becomes a real issue that controls how the relationship works. Unless of course the MP throws caution to the wind and is not a coward and does not care....and most aren't like that it seems but continue to try to appease 2 people. Edited November 15, 2011 by MissBee
Silly_Girl Posted November 15, 2011 Posted November 15, 2011 How else is one open and honest with their spouse about their other involvements and yet stays married? That's the point. It's not an 'open and honest' arrangement. It's simply not a secret. The spouse may not say 'hey sweetheart, I'll be at Flo's house if you need me...', but if they're unavailable ('I'll be out Friday night') the spouse may well know who they are with. And their friends and family too. Are you talking about a WS who forces the BS to stay married against their will? That's not one I hear of often... Or are you talking about situations of separation where the divorce isn't final yet, but the BS isn't willing to stay married. BS isn't willing to stay married? So they're separated? The WS wants the AP and the BS wants separation? If they're separated, there's not an affair. If a WS is open and honest about their affair and the BS stays married under that condition, I would say that is willing participation (excluding the time to divorce or illegal force/control.) That's an Open Marriage to you? The BS could be devastated, could be begging the WS to give up their AP, the couple could be in marriage counselling, but as long as the betrayed spouse knows of the affair, it's an Open Marriage? I find that quite surprising.
Silly_Girl Posted November 15, 2011 Posted November 15, 2011 The marriage is the relationship that dictates what can and cannot happen in the affair. Could you expand on this?
Author MissBee Posted November 15, 2011 Author Posted November 15, 2011 (edited) I've never seen an A consisting of 3 people that wasn't poly. I guess I've led a sheltered life Let's use an analogy ES.... An A can't be an A without the involvement of a third party in the dynamics. It's like working for a large company, you may never ever see the CEO, and your day to day interactions may be with your coworkers and direct supervisor...but nevertheless, there is an unseen, but known and talked about other person that influences all the decisions of the company and in effect your life. As someone working for that company, you come under direct influence of this person you've never met or seen, as their decisions trickle down, and your supervisor implements policies and procedures based on that person's approval (and they may not explain all that to you, and you're not privy to the meetings happening between them and the CEO, but may get a fraction of what is talked about). Your supervisor answers to them more directly than you do...and it therefore may seem tempting to believe that your supervisor and your relationship with him or her is the sole determinant of your work relations when this is not true, as how they even interact with you etc. is under influence of another person whom they may or may not like (which also manipulates things). This is life in general...even if you live in a "democratic" society, there are influences upon your life that you may have no control over and are not even aware of as governments don't disclose all...but certainly....things trickle down, and not because you don't see it or acknowledge it doesn't mean there is not an external pressure acting upon you. Likewise, in an A....a BS is a force external to the actual relationship, but whose presence manipulates the relationship and sets parameters on what can and cannot happen. This is pretty much a given....a person who has a spouse, kids, a life etc, esp those who are not trying to leave that life, don't conduct As without considering those factors...they can't! Therefore...they have to balance their home life, the BS, etc with regards to the A. SOMETHING takes primacy, and usually their home life does, and when it does, then sorry, but decisions are going to be made swayed in that direction. It doesn't take any kind of imagination to see how someone having a secret A is not making decisions in a vacuum or just based on them and their AP...but the BS too. Even if you don't love your BS....you still have to consider that person's role in your life and make decisions accordingly. I mean just in general....romantic relationships usually consist of 2 people...who are being acted upon by external forces and depending on where they are in life, those external forces may play a greater role, dating a married person adds a very tangible external force and 3rd party. Hence, MPs who have As with other married persons, they do it because they have the same external forces and that balances out things more than dating a single person who may act like or want to pretend like they don't realize a 3rd party is involved and thus things will be different. Edited November 15, 2011 by MissBee
Elizabeth Southerns Posted November 15, 2011 Posted November 15, 2011 All affairs involves three people. In an affair that is hidden from one of the married partners or in an affair that is part of an open marriage. The marriage is the relationship that dictates what can and cannot happen in the affair. Not IME. The APs determine what can and cannot happen in their A.
woinlove Posted November 16, 2011 Posted November 16, 2011 That's the point. It's not an 'open and honest' arrangement. It's simply not a secret. The spouse may not say 'hey sweetheart, I'll be at Flo's house if you need me...', but if they're unavailable ('I'll be out Friday night') the spouse may well know who they are with. And their friends and family too. Not sure what you are referring to. A person who tells his/her spouse I have to go in to work, stops in at work for a while, and then spends a couple hours with the OW/OM, before returning home, is being deceitful and carrying on a secret affair in my view. This seems to be a classic way of lying about affair - saying something which technically might be true but is meant to lead the BS to believe something other than the actual truth. That's an Open Marriage to you? The BS could be devastated, could be begging the WS to give up their AP, the couple could be in marriage counselling, but as long as the betrayed spouse knows of the affair, it's an Open Marriage? I find that quite surprising. As I said, if they chose to stay married. The key word is stay. If the BS discovers an affair, begs, pleads, whatever for a couple months while the WS openly carries on with the A - no I don't call that an open M, I call that a BS trying to figure out how to deal with the secret A that has been discovered. If the BS responds this way indefinitely, choosing to stay in the M and beg, plead while the WS openly carries on the A, yes, I call that an open M. Just like a closed M, an open M can be miserable. Everyone needs to take responsibility for their actions and decisions. Yes, take time to make a decision and respond to a devastating event, maybe it even requires quite a bit of time - but if you decide to make it your way of life and your future to stay married while the other spouse is open and honest about their intent to stay married and have an affair with an OW/OM, that is a choice by both parties. From LS, I've seen some people in affairs conclude that the BS has to know, all while the ones in the A are lying and going to lengths to conceal it. Perhaps it is a way to deal with guilt, make it the BS's fault that they haven't seen through the lies. Along the same lines, I find all this talk about affairs without deception, and yet without openness or honesty, quite strange. It is difficult to understand exactly what situations qualify as no deception, but not open and honest either. Is this trying to make secret affairs look better (e.g. more honest) than they are, or are there some real situations being discussed?
woinlove Posted November 16, 2011 Posted November 16, 2011 Not IME. The APs determine what can and cannot happen in their A. Seems like it often is a complicated scenario of all 3 playing a role. For example: posters here have sometimes complained about how they don't like the sneaking around and hiding. While ultimately, the APs make the decision to hide and sneak around, even though they don't like it, they are responding to the perceived reaction of the BS - so the existence of the BS is what leads them to sneak around. Similarly, they may want to spend Valentine's Day together, but the WS may feel he/she has to spend it with the BS, and so the APs cave to the situation that the existence of a BS creates.
Silly_Girl Posted November 16, 2011 Posted November 16, 2011 Not sure what you are referring to. A person who tells his/her spouse I have to go in to work, stops in at work for a while, and then spends a couple hours with the OW/OM, before returning home, is being deceitful and carrying on a secret affair in my view. This seems to be a classic way of lying about affair - saying something which technically might be true but is meant to lead the BS to believe something other than the actual truth. That's not what I said. You're interpreting my words to suit your point. If the BS discovers an affair or is informed of... , begs, pleads, whatever for a couple months while the WS openly carries on with the A - no I don't call that an open M, I call that a BS trying to figure out how to deal with the secret A thaRt has been discovered. Not an open marriage. Not a secret affair. You'd call it the underlined, I say it's an affair that's not secret. If the BS responds this way indefinitely, choosing to stay in the M and beg, plead while the WS openly carries on the A, yes, I call that an open M. So your view is that if the non-secret affair lasts 2months or more it's an open marriage. I don't view it that way. The status doesn't change in my eyes. I guess I hold the stereotypical view of how an open M works, so the definition doesn't fit, for me. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_marriage Open marriage typically refers to a marriage in which the partners agree that each may engage in extramarital sexual relationships, without this being regarded as infidelity. There are many different styles of open marriage, with the partners having varying levels of input on their spouse's activities. Open marriages place high value on honesty, especially of needs and wants. In fact that's a far cry from one person having an EMR and the other being opposed to it.
Author MissBee Posted November 16, 2011 Author Posted November 16, 2011 (edited) Not sure what you are referring to. A person who tells his/her spouse I have to go in to work, stops in at work for a while, and then spends a couple hours with the OW/OM, before returning home, is being deceitful and carrying on a secret affair in my view. This seems to be a classic way of lying about affair - saying something which technically might be true but is meant to lead the BS to believe something other than the actual truth. My former AP did this.... He never out and out lied about most things to me; however, he would say things that were technically true but not really or would purposefully be ambiguous, where he knew something could be interpreted in a particular way, even though that particular way was not the intended meaning. Example, referring to his gf as the mother of his child. Well this is technically true, so yes he did not lie but what he did by saying that was paint the picture that that was as far as the relationship went. He told his gf about me, said we were friends apparently....yes that was true, but he failed to mention I'm a friend he is romantically involved with and has sex with. On one of his trips to see me, he told her he was going to visit his dad, he did...but not before spending a week with me. There are countless examples of him doing that and positioning himself where he never out and out lied, he just misrepresented the truth, and omitted pertinent info purposefully! The point too is: people are so adamant about not making assumptions, yet if you are not clear with someone about what you are doing, then all they can do is assume and sometimes what we assume is not true and if you are with someone, you're probably going to assume the least negative connotation if they say "I'm working late". That may be a form of denial...but as I said earlier, usually denial is aided and abetted by a party who makes it easier to be in denial because they too misconstrue things. Edited November 16, 2011 by MissBee
Author MissBee Posted November 16, 2011 Author Posted November 16, 2011 Seems like it often is a complicated scenario of all 3 playing a role. For example: posters here have sometimes complained about how they don't like the sneaking around and hiding. While ultimately, the APs make the decision to hide and sneak around, even though they don't like it, they are responding to the perceived reaction of the BS - so the existence of the BS is what leads them to sneak around. Similarly, they may want to spend Valentine's Day together, but the WS may feel he/she has to spend it with the BS, and so the APs cave to the situation that the existence of a BS creates. It is asinine IMO to say a BS plays NO ROLE in an A.... Even it being considered an A is dependent upon there being a BS....otherwise it would be something else. Unless a BS is in a coma or dead, then their existence colors the A, for better or worse. It's not even a debatable issue.
Silly_Girl Posted November 16, 2011 Posted November 16, 2011 It is asinine IMO to say a BS plays NO ROLE in an A.... Even it being considered an A is dependent upon there being a BS....otherwise it would be something else. Unless a BS is in a coma or dead, then their existence colors the A, for better or worse. It's not even a debatable issue. Sorry, genuinely interested as to what your point is here. Are you saying the marriage controls the actions within the affair, as was intimated earlier? Or it doesn't?
donnamaybe Posted November 16, 2011 Posted November 16, 2011 It is asinine IMO to say a BS plays NO ROLE in an A.... You stated that perfectly.
spice4life Posted November 16, 2011 Posted November 16, 2011 You know what's weird in my situation? I have no idea if mine was secret or not. How about that one?! I always had this weird feeling it wasn't a secret to them, yet I was lead to believe that it was. In other words, it felt like *I* was the one who was kept in the dark as opposed to the other way around.
Author MissBee Posted November 16, 2011 Author Posted November 16, 2011 You know what's weird in my situation? I have no idea if mine was secret or not. How about that one?! I always had this weird feeling it wasn't a secret to them, yet I was lead to believe that it was. In other words, it felt like *I* was the one who was kept in the dark as opposed to the other way around. That's a possibility too! I brought a similar idea up earlier in the thread about the BS knowing but the OW/OM still having to live a secret...as even though the BS knows, no one else knows, and in your case, even you weren't too sure what was going on!
spice4life Posted November 16, 2011 Posted November 16, 2011 That's a possibility too! I brought a similar idea up earlier in the thread about the BS knowing but the OW/OM still having to live a secret...as even though the BS knows, no one else knows, and in your case, even you weren't too sure what was going on! I think that is why I reacted so strongly to some posts where it was suggested that the MP and their spouse agreed to an arrangement without informing the OW/OM. Granted the OW/OM are responsible for their own actions, but I believe a third party should be informed up front if that's the case. That's not to say deceiving the BS is okay....that's wrong too, of course! I admit, my reaction was my own personal projection based on my situation...for sure!
Severely Unamused Posted November 16, 2011 Posted November 16, 2011 That's an Open Marriage to you? The BS could be devastated, could be begging the WS to give up their AP, the couple could be in marriage counselling, but as long as the betrayed spouse knows of the affair, it's an Open Marriage? I find that quite surprising. A cr*ppy open marriage is still an open marriage. The point too is: people are so adamant about not making assumptions, yet if you are not clear with someone about what you are doing, then all they can do is assume and sometimes what we assume is not true and if you are with someone, you're probably going to assume the least negative connotation if they say "I'm working late". That may be a form of denial Is that denial or is that trust? From a BW's perspective, I'd say that the two are uncomfortably close together.
bumblebe12 Posted November 16, 2011 Posted November 16, 2011 Coming in late on this as new poster but I wonder if my "A" is really one at all sometimes. I cheated, immediately told my H and asked to separate. We did, 3 months ago. We still live together (financial reasons and neither of us is willing to turn the house over) and spend time together, however, we don't sleep in the same room, have intimacy or go out anywhere together. He filed for D but then withdrew the papers... he wanted to get through tax season first and I think sit on the hope that we may "fix" things. I've never said anything to him about getting back together and he knows about the OM (who is now my BF) but I now leave out details. If I stay with the BF I tell the STBX that I am somewhere else but he assumes I'm with BF. Most of my friends know and so does part of my family, his family knows and some of his friends. They may not know about BF but they know we are separated. The only reason I don't tell him what I am doing is because it causes WAY too much drama and we already did that. He said he didn't want to know anything about it anymore. BF doesn't address or talk about my STBX, nor does he bring it up. He said it's not his business and that I'm a big girl who can handle things myself. His family and friends know about me but I'm not sure if they know I'm still married. After all that ... am I having an A, and open marriage, or something else entirely? This is a question I wonder about all the time.
Author MissBee Posted November 16, 2011 Author Posted November 16, 2011 Coming in late on this as new poster but I wonder if my "A" is really one at all sometimes. I cheated, immediately told my H and asked to separate. We did, 3 months ago. We still live together (financial reasons and neither of us is willing to turn the house over) and spend time together, however, we don't sleep in the same room, have intimacy or go out anywhere together. He filed for D but then withdrew the papers... he wanted to get through tax season first and I think sit on the hope that we may "fix" things. I've never said anything to him about getting back together and he knows about the OM (who is now my BF) but I now leave out details. If I stay with the BF I tell the STBX that I am somewhere else but he assumes I'm with BF. Most of my friends know and so does part of my family, his family knows and some of his friends. They may not know about BF but they know we are separated. The only reason I don't tell him what I am doing is because it causes WAY too much drama and we already did that. He said he didn't want to know anything about it anymore. BF doesn't address or talk about my STBX, nor does he bring it up. He said it's not his business and that I'm a big girl who can handle things myself. His family and friends know about me but I'm not sure if they know I'm still married. After all that ... am I having an A, and open marriage, or something else entirely? This is a question I wonder about all the time. You're in transition....your husband is not under any impression that you guys are going to stay married. You both have decided to divorce but for practical reasons can't...but nevertheless, it is clear, through your plans, your discussion and the fact you do truly live as roommates that there is no longer a relationship and you see others. There is nothing hazy going on. There is no need to give details about you and your bf. Your situation is like a friend of mine...he and his live-in gf broke up for a long while now but live together in separate bedrooms because of financial reasons. He doesn't tell her about his dating life and she doesn't tell him about hers and they don't bring people over...them living together does make things a bit awkward, but the point is, they are not together, they don't expect each other to not see other people. They just don't talk about that...but it is fully known that they're not a couple, they're roommates and if he or she has a new lover, the other is not going to be surprised about this. That is totally different than a WS who makes no plan to D, does not discuss a D, does not file for a D, does not separate, but continues an A, downplays it, but is still married, esp those still married and still trying to have a relationship with their spouse.
Severely Unamused Posted November 16, 2011 Posted November 16, 2011 Coming in late on this as new poster but I wonder if my "A" is really one at all sometimes. I cheated, immediately told my H and asked to separate. We did, 3 months ago. We still live together (financial reasons and neither of us is willing to turn the house over) and spend time together, however, we don't sleep in the same room, have intimacy or go out anywhere together. He filed for D but then withdrew the papers... he wanted to get through tax season first and I think sit on the hope that we may "fix" things. I've never said anything to him about getting back together and he knows about the OM (who is now my BF) but I now leave out details. If I stay with the BF I tell the STBX that I am somewhere else but he assumes I'm with BF. Most of my friends know and so does part of my family, his family knows and some of his friends. They may not know about BF but they know we are separated. The only reason I don't tell him what I am doing is because it causes WAY too much drama and we already did that. He said he didn't want to know anything about it anymore. BF doesn't address or talk about my STBX, nor does he bring it up. He said it's not his business and that I'm a big girl who can handle things myself. His family and friends know about me but I'm not sure if they know I'm still married. After all that ... am I having an A, and open marriage, or something else entirely? This is a question I wonder about all the time. I'd say that you don't have a marriage at all, and that you don't really have a husband to cheat on. Now, from a legal standpoint you are obviously still married to your husband. But from a sentimental standpoint, you and your husband's hearts aren't "in it" anymore. Does that make sense? That is totally different than a WS who makes no plan to D, does not discuss a D, does not file for a D, does not separate, but continues an A, downplays it, but is still married, esp those still married and still trying to have a relationship with their spouse. That's basically it.
Elizabeth Southerns Posted November 16, 2011 Posted November 16, 2011 Let's use an analogy ES.... An A can't be an A without the involvement of a third party in the dynamics. It's like working for a large company, you may never ever see the CEO, and your day to day interactions may be with your coworkers and direct supervisor...but nevertheless, there is an unseen, but known and talked about other person that influences all the decisions of the company and in effect your life. As someone working for that company, you come under direct influence of this person you've never met or seen, as their decisions trickle down, and your supervisor implements policies and procedures based on that person's approval (and they may not explain all that to you, and you're not privy to the meetings happening between them and the CEO, but may get a fraction of what is talked about). Your supervisor answers to them more directly than you do...and it therefore may seem tempting to believe that your supervisor and your relationship with him or her is the sole determinant of your work relations when this is not true, as how they even interact with you etc. is under influence of another person whom they may or may not like (which also manipulates things). I have never worked in an organisation that has a CEO, so I can't relate at all to this analogy. In my profession, one has discretion in one's work, one is not "supervised", and nor do decisions "trickle down". Policies are made in committee, through elected representatives, and communication is two-way, with everyone being responsible for the execution of the policy. There is no shadowy "CEO" figure lurking in the background. Power is protean, and we all have it in equal shares. This is life in general...even if you live in a "democratic" society, there are influences upon your life that you may have no control over and are not even aware of as governments don't disclose all...but certainly....things trickle down, and not because you don't see it or acknowledge it doesn't mean there is not an external pressure acting upon you. I'm well acquainted with the concepts of structure and agency. However, it appears we differ on the balance. It seems you ascribe more power to structure than I do. I feel human agency can be more powerful - thus, change is possible even in the face of force and oppression. Revolutions would not be possible otherwise, such as the "Arab Spring" we have recently witnessed. Likewise, in an A....a BS is a force external to the actual relationship, but whose presence manipulates the relationship and sets parameters on what can and cannot happen. This is pretty much a given....a person who has a spouse, kids, a life etc, esp those who are not trying to leave that life, don't conduct As without considering those factors...they can't! Therefore...they have to balance their home life, the BS, etc with regards to the A. SOMETHING takes primacy, and usually their home life does, and when it does, then sorry, but decisions are going to be made swayed in that direction. 1. Usually <> always 2. Not every MP "considers" the "factors" you describe. Many think about them only at the point of rupture (a "D-Day" or such, when they are confronted with consequences). Many MPs assume - rightly or wrongly - that they will never get caught, and conduct their As in this frame of mind. Some take insane chances - either because they don't care if they get caught, or because it's never occurred to them that they might. The literature is full of such cases, and analyses of why this might be. 3. A BS is a "force" external to the A. So is the MP's job, the OP's job, the OP's family and other commitments (possibly including their own BS), the economy, the political situation in their country, the weather, the remaining lifespan of the planet. How material any of those factors are depends on the unique configuration of each individual A - the two people in it and their individual circumstances, priorities and modi. It doesn't take any kind of imagination to see how someone having a secret A is not making decisions in a vacuum or just based on them and their AP...but the BS too. Possibly. Or their work, which may be more important to them. Or their sports team. Or their concern for the environment. Or whatever matters TO THEM. Which isn't necessarily a BS, even if they have one. Even if you don't love your BS....you still have to consider that person's role in your life and make decisions accordingly. Not necessarily. I think you'll agree that most people love their kids. Yet few MPs are credited with considering their kids when conducting an A. Same goes for the BS - if they were considering the BS, would they be in the A in the first place? I mean just in general....romantic relationships usually consist of 2 people...who are being acted upon by external forces and depending on where they are in life, those external forces may play a greater role, dating a married person adds a very tangible external force and 3rd party. Hence, MPs who have As with other married persons, they do it because they have the same external forces and that balances out things more than dating a single person who may act like or want to pretend like they don't realize a 3rd party is involved and thus things will be different. Perhaps in some cases. Certainly not in all. It is not a given. There have been several instances on LS of MP and OP that live as a de facto couple in one place, while the BS (and any children) live in another. Aside from occasional trips to visit the BS, the MP does not act as if the BS exists at all - the BS has zero impact on the normal day-to-day R between the MP and the OP. The occasional visits are no more significant than, say, visiting one's elderly parents or returning to one's alma mater for graduation, yet no one claims that parents are third parties in a (normal) R, or that one's alma mater is. These are seen merely as background factors that colour someone's environment, not active agents shaping what happens between the two protagonists. If someone's life is coloured by their having an unreliable car, and thus sometimes having to cancel arrangements at short notice, it would be very unusual for that R to be described as tripartite with the car being considered a third party - even though the role of the unreliable car in causing plans to have to be changed may be exactly the same as the role of the BS. The BS is not a player in the A. The BS is simply background noise - much as any other factor in that person's circumstances is.
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