bentnotbroken Posted November 14, 2011 Posted November 14, 2011 I'm not a parent, but i can't imagine a 'here's hoping' attitude when it comes to my own kid's happiness in life. The "here's hoping" is in reference that she chooses to not follow either parents example of being married. But you are right about the attitudes you want to have before you have kids and the one's that sometimes develope after.
alexandria35 Posted November 14, 2011 Posted November 14, 2011 I come from an introvert family and while nothing has happened in regards to cheating/breaking up, it did affect me big time. It affected my sister too. Both of our self-esteems were badly affected. For the last yr i have been trying to change myself after a depression that lasted several yrs and for which i did not go to professional help because hey ... i'm a ****ing introvert. That's the outcome that scares me the most if i were in the OP's shoes, but then again it comes from my own experiences that the OP doesn't have. It's easy to say 'God will take care of it' but the fact is that you need to do what's best for your kid. Stay/leave/whatever, the 2 of them are examples in the kid's life and i hope they look into counseling to at least find the root of the problems. Laissez-faire doesn't work IRL, that's how we got into this economic situation. Mircea, I'm curious as to why you think this posters marital problems have something to do with the parents being introverted. I mean I really am curious to your thoughts on this. I am a true introvert and I like it. I love solitude and getting lost in my own head. If I don't get at least a couple of hours a day to be alone with my thoughts I become irritated. Constant interaction with other people leaves me feeling exhausted and I recharge by going off by myself. All that being said, I'm incredibly affectionate. I love kissing, hugging, laughing and sharing with my loved ones, just not like 24 hours a day, because that would drive me nuts. I love sex. I love one on one time with my significant other. I love touching and snuggling and getting and giving back rubs, massages etc. I spent lots of time with my kids, I loved them, kissed them, told them they were wonderful, played and laughed with them. Im so proud of them and I tell them and everyone else how proud I am. I made a lot of mistakes with my kids but never would I have thought of my introversion as something that damaged them. One of my sons is a true extravert and the other is kind of hard to peg. He's quieter and enjoys his own thing but doesn't seem to be truly introverted. I'm sorry but I think sometimes people get the wrong idea about introverts. We are not unfeeling, cold, or unloving. We give and desire love just as much as anyone else. If introverts damage their children just by being introverts than that is a sad state of affairs as most people don't actually get to choose between being introverted or extraverted. Please elaborate on this if you can. OP sorry for the tj.
Toodamnpragmatic Posted November 14, 2011 Posted November 14, 2011 Keep up the affair until you finally equate that it is worth more financially to splt then stay. This is classic male thought process. It all comes down to money, even when you can afford a D. You basically don't want to give up the moolah.... And you are very comfortable.
StoneCold Posted November 14, 2011 Posted November 14, 2011 Man you are in a pickle! Cardinal rule: An affair while in a sexless marriage is not a solution to your messed up marriage. It is a solution to being sexless; nothing more, nothing less. With that said you never get emotionally involved...its just sex...possibly a friendship as well (that would be nice)....but no romantic feelings. But I guess you figured this out the hard way.... You know that staying isnt going to work. We have established that....but I understand that leaving isnt an over night process either (contrary to what many here say)....especially when there are kids and assets involved (and from what you tell us it looks like this divorce will cost you LARGE $$$$$$). I would start with talking to a lawyer
SBC Posted November 14, 2011 Posted November 14, 2011 If there is no love in the house, what good is money?
Toodamnpragmatic Posted November 14, 2011 Posted November 14, 2011 I'd shout it from the rooftops if I were in his position. My wife REFUSED SEX for 5 years. There can be plenty of ups and downs and issues in a marriage (and they go both ways), but as the OP stated he is attractive, athletic, successful and he talked 'til blue in the face (well at least talked) and she JUST DID NOT CARE. I'd make sure everyone knew. You have only one child, she too earns six figures and and she is worried about all the material things she'll give up and you frankly are worried about money. Just tell her you have an open relationship and you expect her to get IC to see why you allowed it to get to this point and then we'll do MC. How anyone who had a decent sex life prior, can think 1-2, much less 5 years sexless is acceptable should just shake their head. I'd happily say to anyone who asked..... "xxx is a wonderful person, mother and a friend, but she unilaterally decided we would not have sex 5 years ago. I tried my best to work through it with her and finally after 5 years, found myself someone who would."
oldshirt Posted November 15, 2011 Posted November 15, 2011 e. Upon discovery of the affair and discussing the possibility of divorce, $ was a concern that she raised all too quickly. She was concerned about what her standard of living would be if we went that path. This is why I question her motives in trying to "fix" our marriage. I saw no interest in fixing anything until she found out I was involved with someone else and her lifestyle was in jeopardy. She spent years not only denying you intimacy and pleasure and excitement but she spent years denying HERSELF that as well (I agree with the others in that she likely did have some on the side as well) but assuming she wasn't getting any on the side that means that she had such an utter lack of attraction and desire for you that she was willing to deny herself that as well...that took some serious motivation and strength. Then she finds out about your affair but isn't hurt, angry, depressed, jealous etc etc. Her only concern is she might lose an extra house or have to trim her own hedges. This is a cold, money-grubbing, heartless, gold-digging bitch and you surely have known that from the start. Unless you were a complete niave virgin and this was your first ever girlfriend when you started dating you had to have known all along that she did not have the hots for you and was not sexually attracted to you or had any feelings of love and intimacy for you. You had to have known she was in it for the money and the lifestyle all along. Now that you had this affair and have developed feelings for the OW you have had a taste of love and intimacy and sexual excitement and pleasure. I say go for it. Seriously, what are you really going to lose? An extra house you don't need? Lawn service? maybe you'll have to drive one of your cars for a couple more years instead of trading it in for a new lexus SUV? Your daughter is a teen, she'll want to run with her friends for the next several years and won't want to spend any time with you anyway even if you stay in the dead marriage. In ten years she'll see how much healthier and happier BOTH you and your wife will be and she will get it and will understand. I can't remember if you stated your age but I'm guessing you're in your 40s. At best your life is half over. Is this how you want to live the next 40 years? You lasted 5 years of a dead-end marriage to keep your daughter in a home and to protect your beach house. You have paid your dues. I would have maybe lasted 5 months, a year tops. You'll still have your career. You'll still have a roof over your head and a car(s) in the driveway. You'll lose a few of your snobby, snooty "friends" that will side with her as the "woman-who-was-done-wrong." Who gives a $h!t? You'll have a chance to find real love and intimacy and you'll make new friends and a new life in a new home. If you wrote this thread to find blessing in leaving your materilistic, cold, gold-digging wife and finding new love even if it means handing checks over to lawyers and losing a extra house or two, you have my blessing. Go for it. I would have done it 41/2 years ago and I'd be living in a one-bdrm apartment with a ten year old Grand Am parked in the street. And the reason I would have done that is because instead of waking up every morning knowing I was trapped in a dead relationship with a parasite and someone who's only interest in me was living off of my labors, I would wake up every day knowing that this could be the day that I find love and happiness and that I could live my own life for me on my terms. I'd rather live one day as a lion hunting free than another 40 as a sheep in a pen. 1
Author Mr_Confused Posted November 15, 2011 Author Posted November 15, 2011 Well I appreciate all posts. I take exception to anyone saying it is all about money. If I cared that much I could have drawn $ for myself for years and accumulated a mountain of it all to myself. I was born into a **** house on a dirt road. I could back no problem. I care about cash to the extent that upon divorce my child is not forced to move, quit hobbies or other interests that require cash, can live the lifestyle she lives today. Add to that a heaping scoop of bitterness that my wife went celibate - so yeah - I'm not real keen on compromising my life because she unilaterally decided I should live a sexless life. I live below my means - always have - so I have saved enough now that everyone can move forward with the same lifestyle we've become accustomed to living. IT isn't "comfortable" - I don't care who you are or what you are worth....50% of anything hurts. I won't speak poorly of my wife when it ends. Nothing to be gained from that. She knows and I know. If she chooses to sling mud over my name - so be it....I am taking the high road. The only person I will defend myself with is my daughter and hopefully that would never be necessary. Thanks again for all of the comments and insight - I really appreciate it.
Author Mr_Confused Posted November 15, 2011 Author Posted November 15, 2011 She spent years not only denying you intimacy and pleasure and excitement but she spent years denying HERSELF that as well (I agree with the others in that she likely did have some on the side as well) but assuming she wasn't getting any on the side that means that she had such an utter lack of attraction and desire for you that she was willing to deny herself that as well...that took some serious motivation and strength. Then she finds out about your affair but isn't hurt, angry, depressed, jealous etc etc. Her only concern is she might lose an extra house or have to trim her own hedges. This is a cold, money-grubbing, heartless, gold-digging bitch and you surely have known that from the start. Unless you were a complete niave virgin and this was your first ever girlfriend when you started dating you had to have known all along that she did not have the hots for you and was not sexually attracted to you or had any feelings of love and intimacy for you. You had to have known she was in it for the money and the lifestyle all along. Now that you had this affair and have developed feelings for the OW you have had a taste of love and intimacy and sexual excitement and pleasure. I say go for it. Seriously, what are you really going to lose? An extra house you don't need? Lawn service? maybe you'll have to drive one of your cars for a couple more years instead of trading it in for a new lexus SUV? Your daughter is a teen, she'll want to run with her friends for the next several years and won't want to spend any time with you anyway even if you stay in the dead marriage. In ten years she'll see how much healthier and happier BOTH you and your wife will be and she will get it and will understand. I can't remember if you stated your age but I'm guessing you're in your 40s. At best your life is half over. Is this how you want to live the next 40 years? You lasted 5 years of a dead-end marriage to keep your daughter in a home and to protect your beach house. You have paid your dues. I would have maybe lasted 5 months, a year tops. You'll still have your career. You'll still have a roof over your head and a car(s) in the driveway. You'll lose a few of your snobby, snooty "friends" that will side with her as the "woman-who-was-done-wrong." Who gives a $h!t? You'll have a chance to find real love and intimacy and you'll make new friends and a new life in a new home. If you wrote this thread to find blessing in leaving your materilistic, cold, gold-digging wife and finding new love even if it means handing checks over to lawyers and losing a extra house or two, you have my blessing. Go for it. I would have done it 41/2 years ago and I'd be living in a one-bdrm apartment with a ten year old Grand Am parked in the street. And the reason I would have done that is because instead of waking up every morning knowing I was trapped in a dead relationship with a parasite and someone who's only interest in me was living off of my labors, I would wake up every day knowing that this could be the day that I find love and happiness and that I could live my own life for me on my terms. I'd rather live one day as a lion hunting free than another 40 as a sheep in a pen. Some true....some not.....but thanks all the same - I NEED THIS!!!!
Breezy Trousers Posted November 15, 2011 Posted November 15, 2011 Thank you all so much for the thoughtful responses. I'll try to field the most common questions. Regarding our intimacy problems, we have long struggled with sex and intimacy. While we are going on 5 years absent of any sex, we struggled for many years prior to this. We have discussed it in great detail. I have explained on numerous instances how it is negatively impacting me and I am unable to live my life this way. Sex is a big issue as I am you basic active, athletic, and healthy male. A much BIGGER issue is simply not having a sense of being connected to someone in a romantic sense. It is really a terrible thing to love someone and not share such things. So, as time passes, my feelings have changed. My affair was pretty calculated to the extent I was not swept of my feet in bliss. I recognized my options were to exist sexless OR forfeit half of our assets and full-time parental status and pursue a divorce. My mistake was thinking I could have a physical relationship outside my marriage and keep everything else whole and all wuld be ok. That has failed miserably and I do now have VERY strong feelings for my OW. I also recognize my affair is not the real world, so while I am optimistic about what we "could be" - I also know the grass isn't always greener and only time would tell. As such, I don't think I should evaluate my decision to leave or stay on anything beyond the quality of the marriage itself. Regarding $, she has a successful career and earns a 6 figure income. I do make about 3x what she does. As a result she is accustomed to multiple homes, luxury cars, maids, lawn service, etc. etc. - basically a very comfortable and low stress lifestyle. Upon discovery of the affair and discussing the possibility of divorce, $ was a concern that she raised all too quickly. She was concerned about what her standard of living would be if we went that path. This is why I question her motives in trying to "fix" our marriage. I saw no interest in fixing anything until she found out I was involved with someone else and her lifestyle was in jeopardy. Even if it is true, I don't desire her that was any longer. I do find myself confused and have the all too common sentiment of "I love her but I'm not in love with her". I thought if she discovered the affair - she might indicate it hurt tremendously that the man she loved was intimate with another woman, but that did not happen. My reluctance to leave is fear. Fear of being wrong. Additionally it won't be cheap. While we are well off, it will change things dramatically. Our lives will change and our ability to save will be severely compromised. I worry for my daughter. How will she react? What will it mean to our relationship? I'm sure it looks straight forward from the outside, but it scares the hell out of me. Again, thanks for all of the response, I really appreciate the variety of perspectives. It's simple. Either stop the affair or get a divorce. Right now you're in classic cake eater mode. You have a pretty good set up --- security and illicit romance on the side. I don't see you walking away anytime soon. Most MM don't until the **** hits the fan. All men claim to no longer desire their wives while they are having affairs with a newer model. Shocking, I know. All people in the throes of love fog/New Relationship Energy (NRE) rewrite the history of their marriage. Have you really worked hard to create intimacy in your marriage or are you just blaming your wife for failing to deliver it to you? It's a sincere question. Is your OW making as much money or more money than you? I'm assuming this is the case, since you're obviously not accusing your OW of riding you for a lifestyle upgrade. Yes, affairs are pure fantasy. The danger & secrecy gives the illusion of intense bonding and heightened intimacy. Right now, you and your OW need your wife to be the bad guy who "forced" you to philander so you both can wear the halos. Once your wife is out of the picture, you and your OW will have an entirely different relationship in real time. OW will get stale in about 4 years. But it sounds like you already have figured that out.
Breezy Trousers Posted November 15, 2011 Posted November 15, 2011 (edited) Adding -- You get to be the puppet master for both your wife's life and your OW's life. Both of them are dangling & dancing for you while you sit there and contemplate. After years of inattentiveness, all eyes are on you now. It probably feels good to be king, eh? As long as you are playing this game, you don't have to do the work of relationship with either one. That's the point of this, right? It's interesting you are questioning your wife's motives for wanting to stay married but are not questioning the OW's motives for enabling you to lie and manipulate your family. You say about your wife, "I think she wants to remain comfortable, enjoy my income, and not deal with change." I suggest you turn it around. Perhaps you're the one who wants to remain comfortable, enjoy your income and not deal with change. Edited November 15, 2011 by Breezy Trousers
TinaniT Posted November 15, 2011 Posted November 15, 2011 What would you do? In a marriage with kids, I don't think someone should end it until every chance to save it is exhausted. That would mean ending it with the OW, going to MC, and seeing what you can do if you both reinvest - and only ending it if that fails. If you can't end it with the OW and go that far to try to make it work, that's your answer, too. End the marriage. But divorce is hard. Losing those little moments with your kids is hard. The family entanglements being torn up is hard. Even with just cause. It's not a decision to make if you might ever have doubts about it. Pursuing happiness is important, but happiness can be a tricky thing when intricacies come into play. Your daughter is older, so some of it may be mitigated -- however, teens are less into dedicated time so perhaps those little moments are worth even more. Good luck on finding the right solution and happiness.
frozensprouts Posted November 15, 2011 Posted November 15, 2011 so your wife now knows how you feel and wants to work on your marriage? are you going to lie to her and say "okay", or are you going to tell her the truth...that you hvae been cheating, aren't going to stop, and you are only staying in the marriage because of money? question...if she is working too, and has a good income ( i seem to remember you saying that she was) then how much are you realistically going to lose? Some property? Will you have to pay spousal support? Is it having to pay child support that got you worried? What if your wife came to you and asked you to sit down and tell her what you want, what would you tell her? I expect that you probably have been thinking about this for a while and that your feelings aren't new...you must have some idea of what you want... is it (a) give up your other woman,stay married and try and work together to make improvements? (b) stay married, continue to cheat on your wife and maintain the status quo? © begin the process of ending your marriage (d) something else BTW...i know that it's not possible for us to know your wifes side to this story...why have things gotten like this? you must have cared enough about each other to get married... what changed that? Did you have an affair a while back( not accusing, just asking) and that made her unhappy? Did she have an affair? what happened?
findingnemo Posted November 15, 2011 Posted November 15, 2011 I am having an affair. It started as perhaps a poor method to deal with my sexless marriage (and by sexless I mean ZERO sex going on year 5). I thought perhaps if I had a sexual outlet I could remain in the marriage and stay a full time parent and continue to improve our finances. Oh.....but it has proven itself no solution at all. My wife has since discovered the affair. She was not terribly shocked, claims she understands why and doesn't fault me. She now thinks we can "fix" all out problems and find intimacy again. Unfortunately I question he motives. I think she wants to remain comfortable, enjoy my income, and not deal with change. I have also developed feelings for the OW and more importantly lost desire and feelings for my wife during this long period of no intimacy. We have not shared feelings, touched, kissed passionately for years and the love that is left is more of a sibling love than that of a marriage. I don't know what to do.... Most of me wants to leave and find love elsewhere but fear cripples me from moving forward. It's been months since my wife discovered the affair, we don't discuss it and it has not ended, we just continue to co-exist like amicable roommates. What would you do? Hello Mr. Confused, I have read the whole thread and understand the need to keep your income and lifestyle as it is. The good thing is that your W has accepted that a sexless M is a problem. Can you stay M with permission to see other women? Does the OW want you to leave your M? Can you go to MC with a view of agreeing to an open M? There are options between M and D and it really depends on what a couple can agree to. It's not a matter of stay or leave, or bad vs. Good M, or even bad vs. good wife. There are shades of grey. If you still love your W in other ways, why D?
Toodamnpragmatic Posted November 15, 2011 Posted November 15, 2011 (edited) Well said Mircea..... Mr. Confused, you're confusing me.... How you continue to worry about your daughter and what she will do without, when you claim a household income approaching $500,000/yr (or more) escapes me. Does she have a stable of horses you have to maintain, Summers in the Hamptons or Europe, Vacations to only 5 star resorts & room service, a Mercedes on layaway for her Sweet 16, which will be on MTV? Sorry but I can not fathom what she will do "without". Frankly may be a good idea to dial those back if that is what you are referring to. You are absolutely right, 50% will hurt, but isn't it time to talk to a lawyer and start formulating a strategy and protecting yourself? Btw, I said nothing about denigrating your spouse as a person, but being honest that she did what she did to you, seems perfectly fair. 5 FRIGGIN YEARS!!!!!! I can't begin to process the mental anguish that would cause. Edited November 15, 2011 by Toodamnpragmatic
Author Mr_Confused Posted November 15, 2011 Author Posted November 15, 2011 I understand the $ side of things and wasn't seeking advice on that front. While I recognize our salaries are in excess of the norm, it really starts disappearing quickly when tax man hits me for nearly 45%, couple of homes, private school, charities, hobbies, etc. Not looking for sympathy, I know we are fortunate, just saying, whether you live in a big home or a one bedroom studio on the bad side of town, when you give half away it requires some adjusting. Granted nobody is going hungry, but it's not fun no matter who you are. What I really wanted perspective on was the five year sexless marriage, affair, sincerity of my wife seeking to reconcile. Lots of great comments and thoughts, thank you.
findingnemo Posted November 15, 2011 Posted November 15, 2011 I understand the $ side of things and wasn't seeking advice on that front. While I recognize our salaries are in excess of the norm, it really starts disappearing quickly when tax man hits me for nearly 45%, couple of homes, private school, charities, hobbies, etc. Not looking for sympathy, I know we are fortunate, just saying, whether you live in a big home or a one bedroom studio on the bad side of town, when you give half away it requires some adjusting. Granted nobody is going hungry, but it's not fun no matter who you are. What I really wanted perspective on was the five year sexless marriage, affair, sincerity of my wife seeking to reconcile. Lots of great comments and thoughts, thank you. On the A, she accepted her share of the blame and hopefully you have accepted yours (the cheating, lying, sneaking, etc). The 5 year sexless M, we all think that she was in the wrong. With regards to recon, we all offer advice based upon what we feel, what we've been through. I personally don't see that your W caring about $ is a problem. She worked for that lifestyle, so why shouldn't she care? You worked for it too and should work hard to preserve it. So yes, she is sincere in trying to recon. What I find hard to believe is that after 5 years of no sex, she'll suddenly turn into a twice a week sexual partner. The question should be why? Why did she not want to have sex all those years? Does she have a medical problem or a psychological issue from her past? If so, deciding to change it now won't work without some professional help. If she is fine and just didn't want to have sex, it is likely she was getting it somewhere else but wanted to stay M. This would explain a little her lack of real emotion with regards to your A. But she may also have understood and accepted the fact that you would eventually seek solace elsewhere. The reasons why are important and will help you know your true situation. You must find out her reasons in order to understand why she did what she did, and why she now fights to keep the M going. I personally do not advocate Ds unless there are irreconcilable differences. If you both get along and work as a team, a D is like throwing out the baby with the bath water at this point. This could be a unique problem that requires a unique solution. yours is to figure out what kind of problem this is.
Toodamnpragmatic Posted November 15, 2011 Posted November 15, 2011 (edited) Pretty obvious the wife knew exactly what she was doing. They talked about it and she refused. Even now she refuses IC. She just does not want to lose her lifestyle and is biding her time. Why not? She has been for 5 YEARS (have to capitalize it)!!!!! And as a male (and some females), the idea of losing a big chunk in divorce does play a role. FN,why do you, without knowing them do you jump to the conclusion that she worked for this lifestyle? Yes she too earns a very good living, but already we have been told that she is worried about the financial side. I will say what few people will say. HER BEHAVIOUR OVER 5 YEARS WAS DISGUSTING. Below is a prior post from Mr. Confused and highlighted what I consider important notes: "Regarding our intimacy problems, we have long struggled with sex and intimacy. While we are going on 5 years absent of any sex, we struggled for many years prior to this. We have discussed it in great detail. I have explained on numerous instances how it is negatively impacting me and I am unable to live my life this way. Sex is a big issue as I am you basic active, athletic, and healthy male. A much BIGGER issue is simply not having a sense of being connected to someone in a romantic sense. It is really a terrible thing to love someone and not share such things. So, as time passes, my feelings have changed. My affair was pretty calculated to the extent I was not swept of my feet in bliss. I recognized my options were to exist sexless OR forfeit half of our assets and full-time parental status and pursue a divorce. My mistake was thinking I could have a physical relationship outside my marriage and keep everything else whole and all wuld be ok. That has failed miserably and I do now have VERY strong feelings for my OW. I also recognize my affair is not the real world, so while I am optimistic about what we "could be" - I also know the grass isn't always greener and only time would tell. As such, I don't think I should evaluate my decision to leave or stay on anything beyond the quality of the marriage itself. Regarding $, she has a successful career and earns a 6 figure income. I do make about 3x what she does. As a result she is accustomed to multiple homes, luxury cars, maids, lawn service, etc. etc. - basically a very comfortable and low stress lifestyle. Upon discovery of the affair and discussing the possibility of divorce, $ was a concern that she raised all too quickly. She was concerned about what her standard of living would be if we went that path. This is why I question her motives in trying to "fix" our marriage. I saw no interest in fixing anything until she found out I was involved with someone else and her lifestyle was in jeopardy. Even if it is true, I don't desire her that was any longer. I do find myself confused and have the all too common sentiment of "I love her but I'm not in love with her". I thought if she discovered the affair - she might indicate it hurt tremendously that the man she loved was intimate with another woman, but that did not happen. My reluctance to leave is fear. Fear of being wrong. Additionally it won't be cheap. While we are well off, it will change things dramatically. Our lives will change and our ability to save will be severely compromised. I worry for my daughter. How will she react? What will it mean to our relationship? I'm sure it looks straight forward from the outside, but it scares the hell out of me." Edited November 15, 2011 by Toodamnpragmatic
scatterd Posted November 15, 2011 Posted November 15, 2011 Im wondering what happened to make her lose interest was their a point she was rejected ,could it be hormones, or pain.It takes two to keep the sex exciting and woman need their mind stimulated along with feeling sexy and needing more play time.Cheating will intrude on sexual desire also.Marriage takes work and the newness wears off on anyone thats been married along time.Maybe you could work it out but you need to do it with out this OW. Your wife new you was cheated most likely for along time and has time to deal. maybe she cried many of times behind doors.I hope you try to work it out before leaving 14 year olds hurt over divorce also.Their had to be somthing about your wife you love or it would not have lasted so long.I wish you the best and hope you are sure if you decide to leave.Good Luck
Author Mr_Confused Posted November 15, 2011 Author Posted November 15, 2011 It's hard to make these posts concise enough to keep someone's interest and detailed enough to give context. Here is a little background on the sexless situation. For most of my marriage and I have been dissatisfied with our sex life. Couples rarely have perfectly matched libidos and I can live with that. However, I was almost always the initiator and often the reaction was refusal coupled with some commentary of why my approach sucked. Now I understand if I start by grabbing ass or expecting her to be ready on a moments notice refusal is often the result. I do enjoy spontaneous sex, but I consider myself pretty understanding of gender differences. I recognize the need to emotionally satisfy her, warm up, be good to her regularly not just for sex, please her orally and otherwise. I am not self serving sexually, I enjoy pleasing my partner as much as myself. In short, I am not a wham bam thank you sort of guy. Bottom line we never made it work well. Eventually after years of complaining and communicating the impact she recognized it was a dire situation. She started to comply to my advances, but is was meaningless sex, her basically making herself available to me, but with no real passion. She still never made advances, although she would let me have sex with her. At some point I decided I would no long intiate and see if she would. That essentially started this multi year celibate marriage. Upon discovery of the affair she acknowledged what I had been throguh and said she understood my need to meet my physical needs outside the marriage. I explained to her that being refused by someone you love causes deep wounds. It is, to me, the worst form of neglect in a marriage. I enjoy the physical aspects of sex but on a more personal and emotional level it is what binds two people together - sex - as the highest form of intimacy. Being denied that was pushing me away. During that discussion she said she thinks a childhood event created a fear of intimacy with her. She apologized, thinks it is behind her now and wants to reconnect and right all of the wrongs that affected us for so many years. I just have a hard time buying into it. I don't see how something from so many years ago suddenly manifested itself years into our marriage and now has suddenly passed. I question those motives. Now that I have found someone else she is all better. As an aside, with this OW, everything is easy. We don't evaluate each others intent, or have a lsit of prerequisite actions or behavior as a prerequisite to being intimate. We both desire one another and things flow very naturally. I have never had that with my wife. In fact I have never struggled with anyone on this topic other than my wife. The real issue is that I have so many years invested with my wife, a child, and the "worth" we have built together. It is hard to discard that, but at the same time the years of living as roommates has taken a heavy toll. I feel strongly about this other woman, but I am wise enough to know these relationships have a high failure rate. I remain optimistic, but I equally know from this experience that many of my marital challenges don't exist with someone else. I am left feeling we are just incompatible. I appreciate the commitment of marriage but at the same time feel I have tried for years and at some point I need to accept we are not good together. I don't want to make a mistake I regret forever, and it is scary to start your life anew, but as the years roll by it has become increasingly hard to imagine living this way forever or ever finding a way to desire my wife again in a sexual way.
Toodamnpragmatic Posted November 15, 2011 Posted November 15, 2011 You deserve better and went 5 YEARS WITHOUT SEX!!!!! The only issue is your daughter (old enough) and financial. Talk to a lawyer and get your ducks in a row.....
sad puppy Posted November 16, 2011 Posted November 16, 2011 Money is cold comfort if you are not living a fully engaged life, and for most adults that would include intimacy and sex. So take your pick - cash or a meaningful relationship that is wholly satisfying. Most folks that are truly in love and enjoy each other's company don't need or rely on expensive toys or experiences to enjoy life. Seems pretty simple to me. And no, the sex isn't coming back in your marriage - 5 years is not an "oops". That, my friend, is your future from this day moving forward if you choose to stay. Now, ask yourself; do you wanna make it 8 years, 15 years, 20 years? Until one day, you really regret not moving on? All the cash in the world wouldn't be enough for most people to stay.
Breezy Trousers Posted November 16, 2011 Posted November 16, 2011 (edited) It's hard to make these posts concise enough to keep someone's interest and detailed enough to give context. Here is a little background on the sexless situation. For most of my marriage and I have been dissatisfied with our sex life. Couples rarely have perfectly matched libidos and I can live with that. However, I was almost always the initiator and often the reaction was refusal coupled with some commentary of why my approach sucked. Now I understand if I start by grabbing ass or expecting her to be ready on a moments notice refusal is often the result. I do enjoy spontaneous sex, but I consider myself pretty understanding of gender differences. I recognize the need to emotionally satisfy her, warm up, be good to her regularly not just for sex, please her orally and otherwise. I am not self serving sexually, I enjoy pleasing my partner as much as myself. In short, I am not a wham bam thank you sort of guy. Bottom line we never made it work well. Eventually after years of complaining and communicating the impact she recognized it was a dire situation. She started to comply to my advances, but is was meaningless sex, her basically making herself available to me, but with no real passion. She still never made advances, although she would let me have sex with her. At some point I decided I would no long intiate and see if she would. That essentially started this multi year celibate marriage. Upon discovery of the affair she acknowledged what I had been throguh and said she understood my need to meet my physical needs outside the marriage. I explained to her that being refused by someone you love causes deep wounds. It is, to me, the worst form of neglect in a marriage. I enjoy the physical aspects of sex but on a more personal and emotional level it is what binds two people together - sex - as the highest form of intimacy. Being denied that was pushing me away. During that discussion she said she thinks a childhood event created a fear of intimacy with her. She apologized, thinks it is behind her now and wants to reconnect and right all of the wrongs that affected us for so many years. I just have a hard time buying into it. I don't see how something from so many years ago suddenly manifested itself years into our marriage and now has suddenly passed. I question those motives. Now that I have found someone else she is all better. As an aside, with this OW, everything is easy. We don't evaluate each others intent, or have a lsit of prerequisite actions or behavior as a prerequisite to being intimate. We both desire one another and things flow very naturally. I have never had that with my wife. In fact I have never struggled with anyone on this topic other than my wife. The real issue is that I have so many years invested with my wife, a child, and the "worth" we have built together. It is hard to discard that, but at the same time the years of living as roommates has taken a heavy toll. I feel strongly about this other woman, but I am wise enough to know these relationships have a high failure rate. I remain optimistic, but I equally know from this experience that many of my marital challenges don't exist with someone else. I am left feeling we are just incompatible. I appreciate the commitment of marriage but at the same time feel I have tried for years and at some point I need to accept we are not good together. I don't want to make a mistake I regret forever, and it is scary to start your life anew, but as the years roll by it has become increasingly hard to imagine living this way forever or ever finding a way to desire my wife again in a sexual way. Feelings aren't facts. Affairs are * always * easy, CM. Surely you know this. Every night is a Broadway Opening with affairs. Pure fantasy. OW is always "on" to win the man, and she has the advantage of intermittent moments. Lights, cameras, action! New Relationship Energy (NRE) is intoxicating. Serial monagamists go crazy over it and throw the primary relationship overboard for the new relationship once they get a taste of it. Serial cheaters aren't as inclined to do so. They quickly figure out it's the * affair * which is providing the high, not the person so much. Soon, affair partners become interchangeable parts to get the high ... Serial monogamists may not figure this out until the second, third or fourth marriage. Perhaps you did find someone you are more compatible with. That's always possible. Still, it's awfully strange how married people always manage to find The One the first time they try married dating. In "real life," most people have to date at least a handful of people before they find The One. I'm sorry you are experiencing such serious problems in your marriage. I feel like shaking your wife! Her behavior is maddening. On the other hand, I'm aware that I am hearing an account from someone heavily under the influence of love fog. You are responsible for 50 percent of your marriage. Maybe I missed this, but did you try therapy or a separation? Did you discuss negotiated monogamy/open marriage? There were other more honest and kind options available to you and your family than an affair. Did you try them? Why not? What skill set will you bring to a second marriage that is different from what you exhibited in your first marriage? It's very well known among therapists that if the client doesn't change, the client will take himself to a new marriage and recreate the same problems, despite highest hopes to the contrary. This is why changing the body almost never changes the situation. (I highly recommend Susan Cheever's book, "Desire." She left two spouses for lovers, leading to three marriages in all. All marriages ended up looking like the previous marriage within 4 years. All ended in divorce. It's perfect reading for what you are experiencing right now, if you are truly interested in varying perspectives.) I'm not discounting your feelings for OW at all. My concern is that you will make serious changes impacting many lives, only to find out that you are in the same boat five years from now. (At least you won't have to worry about the second wife being with you only for the money. You'll be significantly less rich. lol) Speaking of which (and I'm going out on a limb, here, so don't laugh) -- Please look more deeply at your belief that your wife is only with you for the money. I promise you that, in time, this same belief will show up in a second marriage. Perhaps you believe people only value you for your money & accomplishments & image because YOU only value yourself for your money & accomplishments & image. If so, this will get projected out onto any woman you get involved with. Even if she truly loves you, you will not see it because your belief that she only wants your goodies will block any awareness of the love. It also will block any hope for true intimacy. If you believe you are only worthy for what you earn/provide, you will be afraid of anyone getting too close, because the attachment to money is a cover for something else....... There may be no accident why you chose your first wife -- a woman who continually rejects you. Who you are will attract the same dynamic in a second marriage -- no matter how glowing it may seem in hotel rooms right now. So please consider this. If there's any truth to this, explore it. Don't let an unconscious attachment to an illusion derail your life. If none of this rings true, it may be that you're one of the rare people who does find happiness through an affair. I do wish you every happiness. Edited November 16, 2011 by Breezy Trousers
Toodamnpragmatic Posted November 16, 2011 Posted November 16, 2011 or at least I do about the hurt and how people feel about affairs here..... The point is and I will repeat.... He talked, is in IC and has reiterated over and over that he did try to work at it. She shut down and they have gone 5 YEARS WITHOUT SEX. He has not said he is marrying the other woman or that they have started planning a life. He admits he is developing feelings, which is expected. His wife basically (actually did) turn her back and literally spit in his face on this marriage. That is all you need to know about this sad story.
bentnotbroken Posted November 16, 2011 Posted November 16, 2011 or at least I do about the hurt and how people feel about affairs here..... The point is and I will repeat.... He talked, is in IC and has reiterated over and over that he did try to work at it. She shut down and they have gone 5 YEARS WITHOUT SEX. He has not said he is marrying the other woman or that they have started planning a life. He admits he is developing feelings, which is expected. His wife basically (actually did) turn her back and literally spit in his face on this marriage. That is all you need to know about this sad story. It maybe all you need to know..maybe not so much for others.
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