coffee.girl Posted November 12, 2011 Posted November 12, 2011 Hi Loveshackers, I'm a long time lurker, first time poster. Basically, as per the title of this thread. I think this is becoming a pattern for me and I want to break out of it. I often find myself with feelings for guys that have girlfriends, or are just plain unattainable. Of course, I would never act on these feeling as I don't want to be 'that girl.' In the past I have cut contact with guys I was 'friends' with when I felt we were beginning to step into emotional affair territory. My most significant romantic relationships to date have been with guys who in hindsight, were emotionally unavailable. I was in a relationship with a guy for 3.5 yrs who had every excuse under the sun and was never available emotionally, or often even physically. When we broke up it was like he had never even existed, as there was no real integration of our lives. Meanwhile, I have had dates (and offers of dates) with guys who were available, but I am not attracted to. The most recent I broke off after a couple of dates as his neediness just killed any attraction I felt. Has anyone else experienced this? Overcome it? How can I start attracting, and being attracted to guys are available? I am a big believer in self improvement so all thoughts will be appreciated, even if they are harsh.
counterman Posted November 12, 2011 Posted November 12, 2011 Hi, Welcome to LS I will say that I don't have any experience with this. When I do meet emotionally unavailable girls or girls that have boyfriends, I automatically move onto the next girl. I'm trying to understand why you are attracted to unavailable guys, is it the challenge that comes with it? That you may have to earn or work so that you do get something? For example, the guy you were with for 3.5 years, you must have know long ago that he was emotionally and physically unavailable, but why did you stay so long? Was it in the hope that it'll change? What was the dynamic of the relationship like? I think it helps to understand the reason behind it... although you may not know, I'm sure we can help you out. The reason I want to know is that I have a friend who was in a similar situation to yours... she was with a guy who was pretty much a jerk for 3 years...It was an on and off relationship. Reason she kept going back was because she felt she needed to earn his approval and she felt she needed the security of a relationship, which is just nonsense. My recent dating experience has been those I'm interested in, aren't interested in me and those who are interested in me, I'm not interested it (because I wasn't attracted to them). That is just dating, and it's really important that we have other things going on in our lives to make our existence much more fruitful. I'm glad that you are a big believer in self-improvement, and if you keep doing things you enjoy, your dating experience would generally become better and you become better as a person. Where are you meeting these guys? What makes these guys who are available unattractive?
SincereOnlineGuy Posted November 13, 2011 Posted November 13, 2011 I have a friend who is a young and attractive female of about 22. She has such a knack for only landing in relationships which don't threaten any chance to be long term ones. She dated a much older guy when she was 16. She dated a much older guy when spending a year abroad. These days she seems to go out of her way to find threesome-like relationships where she is the 3rd wheel. Routinely these situations offer little or no chance that they could (THREATEN) to evolve for the long term, in a one-on-one scenario. I can't figure out what it is about her that is so fearful of being vulnerable to one person that way. She insists there was no sexual abuse during childhood, and the things I know about her do not conflict with that statement. Just keep looking way back in your life for the answers you seek. Typically the guys you take major interest in today tend to mirror the males who were in your life in fairly early childhood, for better or for worse. I wish you could assign a rating/gauge of your attraction to various guys, on a scale of 1 to 100. (NOT how hot or good-looking they are... but entirely HOW ATTRACTED YOU ARE to them) You'd pay special attention when your attraction TO them was far more than that of your friends' attraction TO such a guy. At the end, when you had a handful of examples to whom you were majorly attracted, you'd study the traits they had in common, and match them up to those of males from the distant past.
ErgoStep Posted November 13, 2011 Posted November 13, 2011 It sounds like you are getting dates, which is great. I'd say flirt more. You're looking for chemistry and you have the thermostat.
Tony T Posted November 13, 2011 Posted November 13, 2011 Your problem is subconscious and unless you get help you won't change. Somewhere in your life, more than likely when you were young, you were abandoned by a loved one and seriously hurt and affected by this abandonment. As a result, you will go through life seeking out relationships with people where there is absolutely no chance of anything every happening so you cannot be abandoned, rejected and you can avoid the intense pain you once suffered. This may have happened to you as a child....you might have to ask someone in your family if a grandparent or someone close to you disappeared from your life when you were very young. For some people who are extremely sensitive, break ups are devastating beyond all imagination and take a great deal of emotional and physical strength to endure if they can be endured at all. Those people, and very likely you are one of them, will go to the ends of the earth to avoid getting themselves in a position where they could ever possibly have to endure that kind of pain. The just don't want to bond with anybody. They seek out people who are in other relationships or who live thousands of miles away and have a mind thing going...but no real intimacy that could possibly create pain in the future. So if you keep seeking people who are emotionally or physically unavailable, you will never have to worry about pain or hurt...at least not associated with romantic love. However, by this kind of avoidance behavior you deny yourself the chance to enjoy the one thing that life offers that is indescribable and which most everybody seeks. If you think love is going to be easy, yes, avoid it like the plague. Yes, you can get hurt and likely you will...even by the right person. But I truly do feel that it is better to have loved and lost than to never have loved at all. The pain is worth it...and I don't think there is a love relationship that exists that doesn't eventually include some degree of hurt. That's just the way it is.
Imajerk17 Posted November 13, 2011 Posted November 13, 2011 (edited) Well, a relationship with someone who is unavailable is really easy. You get lots of space. You don't have to actually spend a lot of time and energy with the person and deal with their flaws, you can just fantasize and project your ideal. You don't have to worry about having to make a commitment. A real relationship is much much harder. You have to deal with a real person who has issues, and even more, for it to go anywhere you actually have to commit to them and give up your freedom to that imperfect person who gets on your nerves sometimes. Crazy. Edited November 13, 2011 by Imajerk17
FitChick Posted November 13, 2011 Posted November 13, 2011 What kind of relationship did you have with your father? I'm guessing he was emotionally or physically unavailable or both, so you are trying to rewrite history with the man miraculously changing and picking you. I was the same. I hit bottom when I dated someone who was married. My parents were divorced and I see this pattern with children of divorce. The only thing that "fixed" it was The Lefkoe Method. Google it!
Sugarkane Posted November 13, 2011 Posted November 13, 2011 I realize that I also have the same problem too, as someone pointed out to me recently. I don't do it consciously. The problem is how to change it. I realize that I do it because it's easier than having someone rip out my heart again and basically stomping on it.
johan Posted November 13, 2011 Posted November 13, 2011 Often the best insights come from the person who has the problem. In fact, I imagine you know better than anyone the explanation for this. So a good place to start would be for you to answer the question yourself: why are you only getting involved with guys who have little to offer you? What are you scared of?
Alexz Posted November 13, 2011 Posted November 13, 2011 I often find myself with feelings for guys that have girlfriends, or are just plain unattainable. Of course, I would never act on these feeling as I don't want to be 'that girl.' In the past I have cut contact with guys I was 'friends' with when I felt we were beginning to step into emotional affair territory. This is common, with both males and females, I find. Often times, people will be attracted to something they can not have, it even seems to heighten their pull towards an individual. Do you mostly have guy friends or female friends? My most significant romantic relationships to date have been with guys who in hindsight, were emotionally unavailable. I was in a relationship with a guy for 3.5 yrs who had every excuse under the sun and was never available emotionally, or often even physically. When we broke up it was like he had never even existed, as there was no real integration of our lives. Were these guys emotionally unavailable because you were also emotionally unavailable? Often times, when one individual doesn't reciprocate feelings and open emotional exchange, the other won't, and it turns into a competition of not caring. (as my emotionally immature ex described it) Also, what does it mean when one says that their ex never even existed? It means that either one or both individuals didn't care about one another late in a relationship. Meanwhile, I have had dates (and offers of dates) with guys who were available, but I am not attracted to. The most recent I broke off after a couple of dates as his neediness just killed any attraction I felt. What exactly was neediness? I think all individuals are needy, in different ways, even if they're unwilling to admit it. I admit, I am needy in a relationship in the sense that I want their to be a deep care between me and the person I'm with. If the attraction was killed, you do have reason to cut it off, though. Has anyone else experienced this? Overcome it? How can I start attracting, and being attracted to guys are available? I am a big believer in self improvement so all thoughts will be appreciated, even if they are harsh. Honestly, the only suggestions I have are the following: Appreciate what you have. People say "act like the person you want to attract." But I am fairly certain most individuals are attracted to someone who is their entire opposite and create a mutual gap-filling relationship. There are plenty of available guys, the only thing you have to remember, is that very few are great matches. Availability does not equal strong chemistry, ya know? Also, self improvement is a bit subjective and different on terms of analysis. I am extremely introspective, characteristic of intuitive introverts, but I also am able to easily perceive from another's perspective. Try to think why your previous relationships didn't work. And not purely from the common, "they ****ed up and were wrong for me" garbage. Its rare that someone wants to self-improve, so its a great quality. I feel you want to change in terms of ability to attract others, but not in terms of personality. People develop, people go through phases, and people often feel worlds apart in relationships, all things I learned from my previous relationship. I believe my ex only cared for me when she was close, and once a distance was evident between us, she made herself busy and didn't care to communicate. And I'm sure she found others she was attracted in. I even lied to her saying I couldn't handle it from emotional/physical distance, when the truth was, she didn't reciprocate the great care I had for her. Best of luck to you. Never prevariate, always be honest with yourself, and look at what the other person was really thinking.
Alexz Posted November 13, 2011 Posted November 13, 2011 (edited) What kind of relationship did you have with your father? I'm guessing he was emotionally or physically unavailable or both, so you are trying to rewrite history with the man miraculously changing and picking you. This is also an intriguing question. Definitely important. My latest ex had poor relations with her father, mother, and only recently became closer to her brother. Extreme emotional immaturity, poor sense of family, awkward belief that she was alone and self-reliant, when the truth was she was very needy and emotionally scarred. (and developed a personality where she consistently reminded herself how awesome she was, even if it was in a joking manner) Edit: Also, the OP has a redcurrant habit of only liking individuals who are claimed? This is definitely stemming from a psychological neediness and insecurity. Edited November 13, 2011 by Alexz
Cee Posted November 13, 2011 Posted November 13, 2011 From what I understand, a person who is attracted to unavailable people is also unavailable themselves. Liking someone who is taken or emotionally vacant saves you from having to develop intimacy. Usually there's a cycle of liking unavailable people and chasing them. And if an available person likes you, then you run away. There are plenty of books and web sites explaining the actions of a love avoidant. Avoidants on the surface seem perfectly healthy and want relationships, but engage in a pattern of chasing and running. As for breaking the cycle, it takes deeper self work, such as addressing past trauma or abandonment. And/or focusing on the present and develop a love of self.
SingleinSouth Posted November 13, 2011 Posted November 13, 2011 My latest ex had poor relations with her father, mother, and only recently became closer to her brother. Extreme emotional immaturity, poor sense of family, awkward belief that she was alone and self-reliant, when the truth was she was very needy and emotionally scarred. Interesting food for thought...
SingleinSouth Posted November 13, 2011 Posted November 13, 2011 Do you mostly have guy friends or female friends? What is the significance of this?
Alexz Posted November 13, 2011 Posted November 13, 2011 Interesting food for thought... Most certainly. What is the significance of this? I'm not putting too much emphasis on this, but I have noticed some women who have many male friends are often entirely accustomed to disregarding the fact that many of them have feelings for this particular female. They are comfortable with rejecting, but uncomfortable with being rejected. Of course, this does not pertain with all females. I've noticed relatively young females have this trait, comes hand in hand with relation****tery. Sometimes, they are also less comfortable with females as they feel they can not relate to them, and engage with the alternate sex, because they feel more comfortable with them. I do not want to derail this thread, but just some observations I have taken, not fact or doctrine.
SingleinSouth Posted November 13, 2011 Posted November 13, 2011 Most certainly. Sometimes, they are also less comfortable with females as they feel they can not relate to them, and engage with the alternate sex, because they feel more comfortable with them. I don't think you are derailing the thread. I think the points you brought up are all things the OP (and others interested in reading) might want to explore. Hm, I've always had guy friends and no girlfriends. I never thought it might have something to do with avoiding rejection in girls vs. knowing guy friends have a "thing" for me and won't reject me based on my sexuality and their attraction to me. So now thru your insightful comment, I see my lack of pursuing girlfriends as a cowardly act that I have to fix. Thanks for that.
Negative Nancy Posted November 13, 2011 Posted November 13, 2011 hey coffee girl (cool nick, i'ma make myself some now ), it could be a combination of things. i found myself attracted to unavailable guys cos it was "safe", literally, no real intimacy, no getting to close. if you find yourself attracted to emotionally unavailable guys, it means YOU are emotionally unavailable. something to ponder about... another reason is that survivors of childhood trauma (i am one of them) tend to crave external drama in order to numb their internal emotional pain. as long as they can deal with outside drama, as long they can ponder about the relationship (what's he doing, why isn't he calling, why is he unavailable...) you don't have to deal with the emptiness inside and the painful feelings that would come up to the surface. i have learned over the years with self-help books to deal with it and currently am in a relationship where the guy is very available and committed and things have been going well for almost 2 yrs now, but i still notice my tendencies to panic when things go TOO well...crazy, ain't it? it's because due to the childhood experiences we've learnt to assess distress and turmoil as the "safe" terrain, it's what we're used to and what's "normal" to us - so when there's quietness and peace, we're not used to it cos it was not normal for us, and our gut signals us "something's wrong"...this introspective knowledge though has already paved the way to becoming better - and i notice in my relationship that things are better. these are just 2 of many reasons. it could also just be that you like the "challenge". so your course of action depends on which category you fall into. HTH, NN
USMCHokie Posted November 13, 2011 Posted November 13, 2011 To answer the title question: Because they're HAWT.
Alexz Posted November 13, 2011 Posted November 13, 2011 Interested to see if OP replies to the comments here. Cee made a great post I find.
Alexz Posted November 13, 2011 Posted November 13, 2011 I don't think you are derailing the thread. I think the points you brought up are all things the OP (and others interested in reading) might want to explore. Hm, I've always had guy friends and no girlfriends. I never thought it might have something to do with avoiding rejection in girls vs. knowing guy friends have a "thing" for me and won't reject me based on my sexuality and their attraction to me. So now thru your insightful comment, I see my lack of pursuing girlfriends as a cowardly act that I have to fix. Thanks for that. I wouldn't say its cowardly, but its definitely comes across as odd to me. With presumptuous notions, I assume its based on feeding on sexual attention that the opposite gender often pays. But of course, it may be an overall preference. Personally, I'd love to hear why some males and females do this. I think a healthy balance of both is optimal, but I could be wrong of course. I just noticed that males who do so crave on female sexuality and attention. For females, I'm not really sure what the reasoning is. Any thoughts would be intriguing.
SingleinSouth Posted November 13, 2011 Posted November 13, 2011 I wouldn't say its cowardly, but its definitely comes across as odd to me. With presumptuous notions, I assume its based on feeding on sexual attention that the opposite gender often pays. But of course, it may be an overall preference. Personally, I'd love to hear why some males and females do this. I think a healthy balance of both is optimal, but I could be wrong of course. I just noticed that males who do so crave on female sexuality and attention. For females, I'm not really sure what the reasoning is. Any thoughts would be intriguing. Girls scare me. My parents moved in my senior year of high school and the girls were so mean to me. Guys are usually more accepting of a girl even in a mutual friendship (w/o the sexual tension stuff). I still hear women talk about each other at work and stuff and it is unbelievably cruel. I dont get it.
Author coffee.girl Posted November 14, 2011 Author Posted November 14, 2011 Oh, wow, thank you all so much for your thoughtful and considered replies. I really appreciate the time you have put in to a complete stranger. I’ll span my replies over a few different posts so this doesn’t turn into a mega wall of text. Counterman (and others who queried about the 3.5 year guy), He wasn’t a total jerk, but he was a workaholic with his own issues. I felt like I was putting a lot into the relationship (tried to be emotionally very supportive and caring, tried to help him work through his anxieties, would cook for him and deliver food when he was having a stressful time at work…. basically, I turned into his mother rather than his girlfriend.) There’s a lot more but I don’t want this to turn into an essay. In the end I wasn't fulfilled by the relationship and realised it was all about him and his needs, and it was all on his terms. I think I accepted this status quo because somewhere inside I did feel inferior to him. I think I stayed for so long because I didn't know many other people in this city and he was a security blanket. [Actually, now that I think about it, it’s probably worth mentioning here that I feel inferior to almost all the ‘unavailables’ I’ve been attracted to, or that they’re ‘out of my league.’ In terms of intelligence, looks, personality and overall capability at life… Maybe I need to work on my self-esteem. ]
Author coffee.girl Posted November 14, 2011 Author Posted November 14, 2011 FitChick and Tony T and those who asked about my early relationships with my father…. Yes I am actually quite sure this stems from patterns created in my childhood and adolescence. Though they never divorced (god knows why not), my parents had an awful relationship and I often wished they would. I had a very stressful time at home. My father never ‘left’ but was not an active participant in my upbringing. I remember as a child longing for him to spend some time with me. I have always had a pleasant relationship with him but I wouldn’t consider us close. I was (and am) a lot closer to my mother but she is completely tumultuous. She had a severe nervous breakdown when I was 12 which she has never really recovered from, and was extremely volatile (self harm, panic attacks, paranoia) for about 5 years. I was torn between desperately wanting to care for her and resenting her for her behaviour. My father (and even her own family) did nothing to ensure she got the medical help she needed or even to protect me and preferred to keep everything hush-hush. Rather than rebelling and doing the usual destructive teenage thing, I think I craved normalcy and positive adult role models so I threw myself into school and did quite well, acted normal... no one on the outside knew how stressful my home life was. It was probably around this time I put up a ‘wall.’ Tony, you made a particular comment, “They just don't want to bond with anybody.” This really resonated with me. Thank you. I think this is relevant for me not just in my love life, but other aspects of my life as well... I have often felt like an ‘island.’
Author coffee.girl Posted November 14, 2011 Author Posted November 14, 2011 Imajerk, I don’t necessarily agree with your implication that I am unable to deal with a real person and their flaws, but your comment “you can just fantasize and project your ideal” really resonated. I think on some level I am addicted to a fantasy and a feeling of longing. Cee, thank you for mentioning ‘love avoidant’ behaviour and a pattern of chasing and running. I will definitely look in to this. I have had vague thoughts of a ‘push-pull’ dynamic but the way you’ve phrased it is so clear. Johan, thank you for your input as well. This is a cliché but I think I am probably afraid of real rejection. They can't really reject me if there was never any real intimacy....
SincereOnlineGuy Posted November 14, 2011 Posted November 14, 2011 My father never ‘left’ but was not an active participant in my upbringing. I remember as a child longing for him to spend some time with me. That is probably central to your concern. It would be good if you could familiarize yourself with the backwards-seeming logic that finds people who were more severely wronged in their early years, later sexually drawn RIGHT TO the elements which seemed so wrong in the past. An example of the daughter of an unavailable father being drawn to unavailable men doesn't begin to illustrate the real trends in such areas. You'd be rather stunned to hear example after example of how that evolves in situations of blatant childhood abuse. It all seems to be right there for you... to understand... in due time.
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