Poll for the ladies: Would you date a guy who fathers his ex-wife's kids?

November 12, 2011

They're 13.
I am not going to break things and then fix them in counseling.

It's already broken. Which is why you wrote this thread.

November 12, 2011

Your kids would not have 'turned' on you a couple months ago if you had a strong parent/child bond.

Trust me, we did.

You exploited this man financially, and then wonder why the relationship didn't work out.

I don't know why you're saying these mean things. I didn't exploit him, I was his wife.

And since you allowed him to mistreat you and demean you, you cannot be surprised your children are doing the same.

This is absolutely true.

Coming to the US with no resources and clinging to the first man who would financially provide for you even though he was abusive and mean was a poor choice.

I came to the US because I married him. And I wanted to stay with him because I loved him, not because he was providing me with anything. In fact, he cut me off very quickly and spent the money I'd brought with me to the US. (His new GF is working so hard on making him marry her, she has no idea she's not going to get much from him! )

And your sons are following your example: attach themselves to the strong one, disrespect the weak one.

This is what most people do in one way or another.

learn to live within your means with dignity and self respect.

I don't know why you talk about "means" - I am not getting a penny from him. Also, I pay for all the necessities for the kids, he only pays for fun stuff like restaurants or occasional vacations.

November 12, 2011

...I came to the US five years ago - naturally, I had nothing and no one here at that time... I did what was facially the best for the kids: to be close to their "dad" and to remain in the same school, with the same friends.

You moved them from their country of birth from everything they ever knew from birth but will put up with this nonsense because you don't want to move them to a new school district. That makes no sense at all. They'll get over it.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'facially' best for the kids: financially? Factually? However, it is not and never is best for kids to see their mother mistreated and abused. Even if they get to go to a blue ribbon school. I'm not sure what compelled you to move to a new country with no money, friends or resources, with two young kids in tow to marry a man you did not know well and you stayed with him for his money, because he could provide them with the housing and school district you wanted them to have. That's exploitation. But you've taught your sons you are weak and dependent and of little value. This is so bad for them. It's really time to assert yourself and set things to right.

I'm not sure what you were looking for when you started this thread. Were you hoping everyone would say, oh no they would have nothing to do with a man who was still involved with his ex stepchildren and she'd solve the problem for you by breaking his contact off with him.

But he's an abusive man and he will only choose passive, dependent, needy women. She won't do your dirty work for you. You are going to have to grow up and fix the mess you got yourself into. And that will mean making some unpopular decisions and taking the heat for it.

Edited November 12, 2011 by forms

November 13, 2011

"...And your sons are following your example: attach themselves to the strong one, disrespect the weak one...."

"...This is what most people do in one way or another..."

No, it's not. Most healthy people make themselves strong and either help weaker ones or leave them alone. Most people do not mistreat people weaker than themselves.

But you believe otherwise. You believe most people disrespect people weaker than themselves and find people stronger than themselves to attach themselves too. It's why your sons have abandoned ship, and it's why you need counseling, because unless you change this fundamental belief you are pretty much destined to attach yourself to another person you perceive to be stronger than yourself and to allow yourself to be abused as the weaker one or even to disrespect people you think are weaker than you.

As long as you have this philosophy, your sons will have it as well and will continue to mistreat you with or without your ex in the picture and anyone else they believe to be weak.

Please get counseling for all of you.

November 13, 2011

You moved them from their country of birth from everything they ever knew from birth but will put up with this nonsense because you don't want to move them to a new school district. That makes no sense at all.

I know, right?

I'm not sure what you mean by 'facially' best for the kids: financially? Factually?

Oops, I forgot the word was a legalese. "Facially" means "on its face." In this context, it sounds like a good solution to have a father who loves the kids and go to a good school. But the hidden factor was that the father's took advantage of the fact that it was a good solution for me and my kids.

However, it is not and never is best for kids to see their mother mistreated and abused.

I know.

he could provide them with the housing and school district you wanted them to have. That's exploitation.

He was the one who suggested that we stay in the same area. All I did was find a condo nearby. That's not exploitation. Perhaps you wanted to say that I had benefit for the kids in his desire to keep fathering them.

But you've taught your sons you are weak and dependent and of little value. This is so bad for them. It's really time to assert yourself and set things to right.

All of this is true.

I'm not sure what you were looking for when you started this thread. Were you hoping everyone would say, oh no they would have nothing to do with a man who was still involved with his ex stepchildren and she'd solve the problem for you by breaking his contact off with him.

Yes, I'd rather that she breaks them (ex and kids) apart than me doing it.

But he's an abusive man and he will only choose passive, dependent, needy women.

Yes!

And that will mean making some unpopular decisions and taking the heat for it.

Children don't forgive unpopular decisions. I don't need to cut him off from their lives completely. He is doing all of this because he knows he was always able to keep me around, drive me nuts, give me hopes, make me cry or laugh - whatever he wanted to achieve. If he sees that he gets zero attention from me, after a while, his relationship with the kids will not be tainted by the sick games he wants to play with me. Plus, he'll see that by doing what he's doing now he only loses.

Most people do not mistreat people weaker than themselves.

Well, he does.

you are pretty much destined to attach yourself to another person you perceive to be stronger than yourself and to allow yourself to be abused as the weaker one

Yes, this is a scary thought. The thing is I am not a weak person; it's that he is asserting himself as the stronger person and creating a state of war.

By the way, thanks for all your contribution and time/effort you spent here.It's not wasted. I cited you to my mom about some wise things you said.

November 13, 2011

Children don't forgive unpopular decisions.

Yes, they do. And even if they don't, you MUST make the right decision for them however unpopular. He will teach them to be like him; he can't help but to do that.

You are making a huge assumption to think that if you stop playing the game he will grow tired of corrupting them. The problem is, being corrupt/abusive himself he cannot teach them anything better. Thinking he can benefit them is magical thinking on your part. Even if your X completely ignores you from this point on and treats your kids nicely, he won't treat the other women in his life nicely and your kids will learn that. You are allowing your X to define manhood to them.

But I'm concerned with your belief that the kids don't forgive unpopular decisions. Again this speaks to a weak parent/child bond. I know you don't believe you had one until he decided to mess with it, but he could not have messed with it had it been strong. It only seemed strong because it was not tested. Tested, you found out otherwise.

And perhaps that's why you fear making an unpopular decision because the relationship is not strong; but it is stronger than you think. There's a primal link between you and your sons that may be damaged and weakened right now, but still exists.

I have 3 sons I raised all by myself without a father and they are in their early 20s and all doing well. Your sons don't NEED your ex. In fact, they NEED to be away from him. He will corrupt them.

Please do consider counseling. This is saveable right now.

November 13, 2011

RP... I'm not a mom, but I can't believe that it's a good decision to let your kids hang out with an abusive man whom you despise. I would put a stop to that first and foremost.

November 13, 2011

As a mother it is often your duty to make decisions your kids won't like. For example, would you let them go to a party at a home without adult supervision? They wouldn't like it when you say no, but you HAVE to be unpopular occasionally for the sake of your kids. Parenting.g is not a popularity contest.

Get that man out of their lives as soon as possible.

November 13, 2011

Yes, they do. And even if they don't, you MUST make the right decision for them however unpopular. He will teach them to be like him; he can't help but to do that.
You are making a huge assumption to think that if you stop playing the game he will grow tired of corrupting them. The problem is, being corrupt/abusive himself he cannot teach them anything better. Thinking he can benefit them is magical thinking on your part. Even if your X completely ignores you from this point on and treats your kids nicely, he won't treat the other women in his life nicely and your kids will learn that. You are allowing your X to define manhood to them.

Urgh... God sent you to me, you wise b$tch!

Again this speaks to a weak parent/child bond. I know you don't believe you had one until he decided to mess with it, but he could not have messed with it had it been strong. It only seemed strong because it was not tested. Tested, you found out otherwise.

:eek:

I can't go to court, though. I am scared that the judge will say he's a good dad and the kids deserve to spend 50% of the time with him, and grant him 50% guardianship/custody. I need to speak to a custody lawyer about it. You have no idea how likeable he is.

If you met him in person today after reading all this stuff I wrote here, you'd tell me "RP, you made this all up. This guy is a gift from god!"

Plus, he'll pull all the dirty laundry to make me look bad. Moreover, he'll have the kids testify that he's the best daddy in the world.

I can move away and transfer them to another school. The thing is the kids will fight against it. Even if I took them to a different state, he'd come and get them. People keep seeing him as the good guy who takes care of somebody else's kids. So, even if I made the unpopular decision, I don't know how I would implement it.

And perhaps that's why you fear making an unpopular decision because the relationship is not strong; but it is stronger than you think. There's a primal link between you and your sons that may be damaged and weakened right now, but still exists.

Thanks, that's very encouraging. But I have to first make HIM lose the "momentum." Right now he feels very strong because he controls my happiness/life through my children. He's like a gambler who's winning one game after another and is unlikely to stop until he starts losing money.

He needs to be brought to the state (like before) where he's telling me "Get your kids, I won't take care of them anymore." He did this to me 4 times in the past when he had a disagreement with me about something. This was his blackmail, as in if you don't do what I want, I won't help you with the kids, let's see how you make it without me. I usually resisted the blackmail and after a few days or 2 weeks, he'd forget about the blackmail.

But this time if he'd do the same thing, I'd pick them up and move away immediately. In fact, I am paying $50 more each month in rent just so I can keep it month-to-month and be free to take them away. Otherwise, I love this area and my condo, I would live here until I am able to buy a house.

Your sons don't NEED your ex. In fact, they NEED to be away from him. He will corrupt them.

True. So true. It's not that easy to do it, though.

Please do consider counseling. This is saveable right now.

You know that counselors like popular decisions only.

November 13, 2011

Urgh... God sent you to me, you wise b$tch!

:eek: I can't go to court, though. I am scared that the judge will say he's a good dad and the kids deserve to spend 50% of the time with him, and grant him 50% guardianship/custody. I need to speak to a custody lawyer about it. You have no idea how likeable he is. If you met him in person today after reading all this stuff I wrote here, you'd tell me "RP, you made this all up. This guy is a gift from god!" Plus, he'll pull all the dirty laundry to make me look bad. Moreover, he'll have the kids testify that he's the best daddy in the world.

I can move away and transfer them to another school. The thing is the kids will fight against it. Even if I took them to a different state, he'd come and get them. People keep seeing him as the good guy who takes care of somebody else's kids. So, even if I made the unpopular decision, I don't know how I would implement it.

Thanks, that's very encouraging. But I have to first make HIM lose the "momentum." Right now he feels very strong because he controls my happiness/life through my children. He's like a gambler who's winning one game after another and is unlikely to stop until he starts losing money.

He needs to be brought to the state (like before) where he's telling me "Get your kids, I won't take care of them anymore." He did this to me 4 times in the past when he had a disagreement with me about something. This was his blackmail, as in if you don't do what I want, I won't help you with the kids, let's see how you make it without me. I usually resisted the blackmail and after a few days or 2 weeks, he'd forget about the blackmail.

But this time if he'd do the same thing, I'd pick them up and move away immediately. In fact, I am paying $50 more each month in rent just so I can keep it month-to-month and be free to take them away. Otherwise, I love this area and my condo, I would live here until I am able to buy a house.

True. So true. It's not that easy to do it, though.

You know that counselors like popular decisions only.

RP... I'm not a lawyer but I don't think a court can grant custody to a man who is not the kids' father. I don't think you have anything to fear; you're just making excuses.

November 13, 2011

RP... I'm not a mom, but I can't believe that it's a good decision to let your kids hang out with an abusive man whom you despise. I would put a stop to that first and foremost.

As a mother it is often your duty to make decisions your kids won't like. For example, would you let them go to a party at a home without adult supervision? They wouldn't like it when you say no, but you HAVE to be unpopular occasionally for the sake of your kids. Parenting.g is not a popularity contest.

Get that man out of their lives as soon as possible.

I agree with both/all of you. I just don't know HOW to doit at this point. I am not making excuses. I am telling you, he'll just take them away, the kids will tell the cops 'we wanna go with daddy' and we'll end up in court where we'll be throwing dirty laundry (and lots of money) at each other.

I want to find a smooth way to do it. I am usually good at finding smooth solutions because I spent months, sometimes years contemplating and paving the roads before I elegantly jump. I'll find a way to cut him off without scissors.

November 13, 2011

Why not move back to your country of origin with the kids, at least until they finish school? He's not likely to drop by. He won't be able to take them out of the country, any more than I could take my ex-boyfriend's kids because I am not related. Tell them you are visiting grandma for a while and when they are there, take their passports.

November 13, 2011

Why not move back to your country of origin with the kids, at least until they finish school? He's not likely to drop by. He won't be able to take them out of the country, any more than I could take my ex-boyfriend's kids because I am not related. Tell them you are visiting grandma for a while and when they are there, take their passports.

I haven't come to such desperate solutions.

My former country is a sh*thole. Plus I am finishing law school here, next spring. I could move to another western country though to work as a lawyer or teach some subject. As a US citizen, the world's doors are wide open to me. And it'd be a great experience for the kids to experience some other culture. I'll give it a thought. Thanks for the inspiration!

Edited November 13, 2011 by RecordProducer

November 13, 2011

Plus I am finishing law school here, next spring. I could move to another western country though to work as a lawyer or teach some subject. As a US citizen, the world's doors are wide open to me.

Being a US citizen doesn't mean anything because other countries have immigration rules, same as we do, although we don't enforce ours. You can't just pack up and live and work anywhere in the world. If that were the case, I'd have done it years ago. Being admitted to the Bar in one state would be useless in another state, never mind another country. Probably the only profession where you could work anywhere in the world would be doctor.

I'm assuming you are from the Philippines but if you are better educated than the populace, at least you'd now be upper class.

November 13, 2011

Being a US citizen doesn't mean anything because other countries have immigration rules, same as we do, although we don't enforce ours.

I don't know what you mean by we don't enforce ours. Could you please elaborate?

You can't just pack up and live and work anywhere in the world.

You could, but that's not what I would do. I would find the job from here, which many people have done in various occupations. A friend of mine was studying in the US and got a job as a math teacher in Marocco, and she's totally not even American, she doesn't even have a green card. I would certainly get a work visa before moving somewhere. In any event, doors are not closed to US citizens like they are for 2/3 of the world's countries.

If that were the case, I'd have done it years ago. Being admitted to the Bar in one state would be useless in another state, never mind another country.

There are plenty of lawyers working in other countries for various organizations (e.g. human rights) or teaching the law at foreign law schools. No, they don't practice the local law at local tribunals.

Of course, most of the available jobs are in places where I wouldn't live, but not all. No job comes easily; it's not a "double cheeseburger with small fries, please" order, but it's not a mission impossible if one sets one's mind on it - just like most things in life. Also, there are many jobs that are not law-related. One year abroad is all I need to break the "gang" apart.

I'm assuming you are from the Philippines but if you are better educated than the populace, at least you'd now be upper class.

Why do you assume I'm from the Philippines???

Are you?

No, I am from a European country.

Edited November 13, 2011 by RecordProducer

November 13, 2011

:eek: I can't go to court, though. I am scared that the judge will say he's a good dad and the kids deserve to spend 50% of the time with him, and grant him 50% guardianship/custody. I need to speak to a custody lawyer about it.

Won't work. He doesn't have 'status'. That means he doesn't even have the right to ask for custody of your kids. Just like a beloved teacher, scout leader or coach can't ask. It won't even be heard in court.

Stepparents with more invested in their stepchildren have tried and the precedent is long been set: no custodial rights for stepparents without consdent of the biological parent. Not in any state. The only time a stepparent gets any visitation is if the bio parent permits it. This is something that comes up over and over and over. Stepparents lose every time. The court will tell your X if the bond with the children is so strong, they will contact him when they are 18.

He will get nothing.

You are the parent of minor children, if you ask a court to put a no contact order on him, he won't be allowed to have contact. No email, visitation, phone calls anything. And it won't be up to your kids to refrain, it will be up to him to rebuff them. They call him, he better not answer. It will be HIS responsibility, not yours, not the kids to break up the relationship. Or off to jail he goes.

I can move away and transfer them to another school. The thing is the kids will fight against it. Even if I took them to a different state, he'd come and get them. People keep seeing him as the good guy who takes care of somebody else's kids. So, even if I made the unpopular decision, I don't know how I would implement it.

So they fight against it. What can they do? Whine? If you have a court order and he comes and gets them, he's facing federal kidnapping charges. That's not fun.

It's not up to you to implement it, once you have the court order it's up to him to implement it. Or go to jail.

November 13, 2011

I agree with both/all of you. I just don't know HOW to doit at this point. I am not making excuses. I am telling you, he'll just take them away, the kids will tell the cops 'we wanna go with daddy' and we'll end up in court where we'll be throwing dirty laundry (and lots of money) at each other.

You are making excuses. The cops will follow the court order, not what the kids say. The court order will say he's to have to contact. He can go to court if he wants, and maybe the kids will or will not testify (usually not depending on their ages which is ____?). But if he has no status, meaning no right to ask for custody, the court won't even listen. His petition will be dismissed before it reaches the judge. This is the first thing the court checks for: do you have the right to sue (status) and do they have the right to rule (jurisdiction).

It won't matter how likeable he is. This issue has been tested thousands of times. Stepparents get nothing.

Stepparents don't get court ordered visitation. They just don't. Stop playing helpless and get that no contact court order. Then you can stay in the condo you like so much.

Also stop getting 'help' from him. You say you pay all the boys expenses, but then you say over and over that he helps you with them--and holds that help over your head. Stop accepting 'help' from him.

November 13, 2011

Plus I am finishing law school here, next spring. I could move to another western country though to work as a lawyer or teach some subject.

You are in law school and don't know about status and jurisdiction? And don't know how to look up case law on something so simple as stepparent visitation? You don't know that cops will follow court orders not kid preferences?

Hmmmmmmm.........

My 20 year old kid just started law school. Want me to have him look it up for you? Sheesh. You just lost credibility with me and it was wavering because of the dubious nature of your pretending to be the girlfriend in your intial post.

Edited November 13, 2011 by forms

November 13, 2011

Interesting. Some guy don't care and raise the her other ex-kids as his own some guys won't go there. If the kids like him then the heck with it. If the kids hated this guy then he would exit out of that situation.

November 13, 2011

You are in law school and don't know about status and jurisdiction? And don't know how to look up case law on something so simple as stepparent visitation? You don't know that cops will follow court orders not kid preferences?

You're right! I will look at case law now and let you know what I found. What you're talking about is called "standing," not status and jurisdiction.The jurisdicton only applies to where you can sue (my county) or enforce the order (everywhere).

I will still talk to a custody lawyer, though, before I make any further step, because the case law is usually appellate decisions and appellate courts apply the law more precisely than lower courts. I have no use from us suing each other for years before I get the kids - and they become adults in the meantime. Yes, I know cops will follow the court's order.

Also stop getting 'help' from him. You say you pay all the boys expenses, but then you say over and over that he helps you with them--and holds that help over your head. Stop accepting 'help' from him.

He used to be of help when I was happy the kids had a dad in him. I am not happy about it anymore. Yes, I pay for the kids clothes, school supplies, health insurance, doctor/dentist visits, etc. I will gladly pay for whatever he's paying for them now.

By the way, he was telling me for years while we were married that he wanted to adopt them, and when I asked their real father for permission, the father said OK. Immediately thereafter, my ex changed his mind and told me "I don't want to give you the card of asking for child support, I will not adopt them now." So, good for me. But now he's been asking me for a long time to change their last names into HIS last name (I still have ihis last name too). I don't want to do it and I will not do it, of course. What a jerk: won't adopt the kids so he doesn't have to pay child support but he wants them to have his last name? That's rotten in my book.

Edited November 13, 2011 by RecordProducer

November 13, 2011

Won't work. He doesn't have 'status'. That means he doesn't even have the right to ask for custody of your kids. It won't even be heard in court.

Unfortunately, you are wrong. Step-parents do have custody rights and courts liberally grant visitation rights. They look at the following factors:

degree of the step-parent's participation at a significant level in the child's life
length of time the step-parent participated as an actual parent for the child in place of the child's natural parent
existence of any relationship and emotional ties between step-parent and child
amount of financial support and assistance provided by the step-parent
degree of detriment to the child if the step-parent is denied visitation

Only four states, Alabama, Florida, Iowa, and South Dakota, foreclose this right entirely to step-parents.

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