Is alcohol the key to hooking up with women?

[somedude81]

It doesn't, and there sounds like a difference between "we got drunk" (as reported by the woman) and "trying to get girls drunk" (what you said).

I'm only talking about having a woman drink enough so that she'll might turn a "no" into a "maybe."

Of course there's nothing wrong with a man offering a drink to an adult woman he is hoping to have sex with, provided she knows what's in that drink and he isn't mixing it in a way that will get her extremely drunk very quickly.

That's exactly what I mean.

 

There isn't always much alcohol involved in the difference between somebody's inhibitions being lowered and them becoming completely wasted. I think it would be very dicey for you to regard yourself as being a good, objective judge of how far down the path to being wasted a woman you want to sleep with might be.

Then it's something I'll have to be careful with.

Ultimately, alcohol is an intoxicant...and one that has played a role in many rape allegations, and also in convictions. No doubt it plays a role in the development of lots of relationships as it's a common feature of nights out and socialisation. However, you're talking about a very calculated approach towards using alcohol as a tool in seducing a woman. I think it would be irresponsible for anybody to condone that.

A very calculated approach? Hardly.

 

Whenever I spent time alone with a woman, alcohol was never involved. Now I'm thinking that I should try offering her a drink or going out for drinks instead of wasting my time trying to charm her with my wit alone.

Do you drink alcohol? just curious

 

To answer your question:

 

Going to a party, or a bar, or on a date and having a drink while socializing = fine.

 

Giving a girl alcohol with the sole intention of molesting her = super creepy and potentially criminal

I only drink on very rare occasions. I hardly ever go out. But I have a couple bottles in my apartment.

 

How creepy is offering a girl some wine or a mixed drink instead of soda when she's watching a movie at my place?

 

And do you really think I'm the kind of guy that can "molest" a girl?

I've had a drunken first kiss a few times in my life, so I won't immediately cut you down for your battle plan.... the problem is, you have the logic all wrong.

 

Girls need to ALREADY have feelings/an attraction for a guy that for some reason they are nervous about acting on (they're shy, they think he's bad news, he hasn't shown an interest in them, they're morally opposed to being sexually forward, the list goes on.) Alcohol gives the girl lower inhibitions AND a handy excuse if things should go wrong ("Oh well, I was drunk") so they can forfeit responsibility.

Damn, that's a lot of reasons why a woman wouldn't act on what's she's feeling.

 

So far all I know, one or women could have been thinking about me in a certain way but had one or more of the above reasons to not act and some booze would have pushed her over the edge.

 

That pretty much proves the point that I should try to get the girl tipsy or whatever.

 

I have no idea where you get the idea that girls only develop feelings AFTER they've had sex with a guy. I'd say that for most women sex STRENGTHENS feelings, but it makes no sense that a girl would say "Oh I don't like him at all, let me sleep with him" and then suddenly afterwards," OMG I LUUUVV HIM!"

From what I've been told, having sex with a guy really kicks off a girls feelings towards him.

 

So I don't know if sex would or wouldn't let a woman go from, "He's a nice guy", to "I love him."

 

In most of these cases, the girl did think the guy was cute in some ways, and the alcohol made her horny. He just happened to be in the right place at the right time.

 

I don't condone actual rape, but I will say it's easier to get a "yes" out of an inebriated girl than a sober one who's got all her insecurities in front of her.

Hmm, so alcohol does make women horny?

 

The second paragraph makes me think that I've been wasting my time solely trying to get girls while they are completely sober.

[verhrzn]

So far all I know, one or women could have been thinking about me in a certain way but had one or more of the above reasons to not act and some booze would have pushed her over the edge.

 

That pretty much proves the point that I should try to get the girl tipsy or whatever.

 

From what I've been told, having sex with a guy really kicks off a girls feelings towards him.

 

So I don't know if sex would or wouldn't let a woman go from, "He's a nice guy", to "I love him."

 

I have no idea who is telling you those thing, but to put it bluntly... they're dumb. They are super dumb butts.

 

And no it DOESN'T prove your point. Did you see nothing in my last paragraph where it says "that way lies ruin and drama"? Now if a girl is tipsy OF HER OWN ACCORD, and you're flirting with, and you make out, then huzzah. But for you to PURPOSEFULLY get her tipsy is creepy and predatory. Whatever sex/relationship it DOES lead to will be one built on a bedrock of manipulation. If a girl cannot even get HERSELF tipsy to flirt with you, and you have to do it FOR her... exactly what does that say about her mental health, your mental health, and the type of sex/relationship you've have? (IF it even got to that point.)

 

Furthermore, is it really that far of a leap from "I can't get girls, so I'll GET them drunk so they'll sleep with me" to "I can't get girls, so I'll just give em something so they'll sleep with me" to "I can't get girls, so I'll just give em something so I can sleep with them." It's a very slippery slope you're taking a tentative step on.

 

I mean... seriously, damn, Somedude. My perception of you was that you were a nice guy hard on your luck with women (again... WHY ignoring the very practical advice of growing your confidence, and finishing school?) But with this post, I'm leaning heavily in the direction of you not being very nice at all....

[dasein]

As far as advice goes, the thing to do is to start out at night a little later, stay sober yourself, and go in a little earlier. If you want to do the best with drinking women, in my locale you would go out from 10PM-1AM. Then go home and do it again the next night. The mistake many men make when trying to score drunk women is going out too early and staying out too late. Better to have a set pattern of going out more frequently but for only a few hours at a time. This is also less expensive. Don't fall into the trap of closing down bars, hanging around til 4AM hoping she will want sex, that's passive and counterproductive. Go out at 10 and get to work finding the women who set out to have sex that night and are socially lubricating themselves as a warmup, not the all night partiers.

[somedude81]

I have no idea who is telling you those thing, but to put it bluntly... they're dumb. They are super dumb butts.

 

And no it DOESN'T prove your point. Did you see nothing in my last paragraph where it says "that way lies ruin and drama"? Now if a girl is tipsy OF HER OWN ACCORD, and you're flirting with, and you make out, then huzzah. But for you to PURPOSEFULLY get her tipsy is creepy and predatory.

Of course she'll get tipsy on her on accord. It's not like I'm going to tie her down and stick an IV in her.

 

What the hell were you even thinking about?

 

 

Whatever sex/relationship it DOES lead to will be one built on a bedrock of manipulation

Huh?

Furthermore, is it really that far of a leap from "I can't get girls, so I'll GET them drunk so they'll sleep with me" to "I can't get girls, so I'll just give em something so they'll sleep with me" to "I can't get girls, so I'll just give em something so I can sleep with them." It's a very slippery slope you're taking a tentative step on.

At least you admitted it's a slippery slope...

I mean... seriously, damn, Somedude. My perception of you was that you were a nice guy hard on your luck with women (again... WHY ignoring the very practical advice of growing your confidence, and finishing school?) But with this post, I'm leaning heavily in the direction of you not being very nice at all....

Getting my confidence up is an entirely diffrerent thing. Though actually getting somewhere with a girl for once in my life would help.

 

I still got a year in school, I rather not stay celibate for that time.

 

And it's laughable how you think I'm no longer a nice guy for thinking that alcohol could help.

 

Tell me, for those drunken kisses you've had. How many of those were first kisses? And would you have kissed the guy had you not had some drinks first?

As far as advice goes, the thing to do is to start out at night a little later, stay sober yourself, and go in a little earlier. If you want to do the best with drinking women, in my locale you would go out from 10PM-1AM. Then go home and do it again the next night. The mistake many men make when trying to score drunk women is going out too early and staying out too late. Better to have a set pattern of going out more frequently but for only a few hours at a time. This is also less expensive. Don't fall into the trap of closing down bars, hanging around til 4AM hoping she will want sex, that's passive and counterproductive. Go out at 10 and get to work finding the women who set out to have sex that night and are socially lubricating themselves as a warmup, not the all night partiers.

I'm not into going to bars and picking up random women.

 

What I'm just talking about is taking a girl I met elsewhere to have some drinks or offer her something at my place. Which seems to be the totally normal thing to do, and yet everybody is getting on my case about it...

[Taramere]

What I'm just talking about is taking a girl I met elsewhere to have some drinks or offer her something at my place. Which seems to be the totally normal thing to do, and yet everybody is getting on my case about it...

 

So you do have girls coming round to your home? Well in that case, I think it's totally normal to offer them a drink. As a woman I wouldn't have an issue with that, but I would expect the drink to be wine rather vodka or some other spirit. Maybe it's just me, but I think spirits have more of a connotation of "trying to get drunk" whereas wine is more social.

 

My main emphasis, when I've been alone with a guy and there's alcohol on the go, is "how much is he drinking?" Even with a trusted male friend, I will get tetchy if he's drinking a lot...because alcohol can bring out an unexpectedly unpleasant side to some people.

 

I would say, have some wine available (no need to have a massively stocked drinks cabinet when you don't drink much yourself) and just include it along with soft drinks in the array of drinks you're offering.

[Nexus One]

From what I've read about, many women don't develop feelings for a guy till after they've had sex or made-out. And of course, it seems very unlikely for one to get a woman to sleep with a man without her having feelings for him first

 

So is that where booze comes in? She gets drunk and horny, has sex and then a relationship starts?

 

Is that what I've been doing wrong, not trying to get girls I know drunk?

 

Are you seriously considering stooping THAT low? I.e. that you think you'd need to intoxicate a woman so that she'll sleep with you causing her to become emotionally attached?

 

Somedude, from my perspective, your opinion of yourself is too low. THAT is what is holding you back.

[RiverRunning]

I think having sex from the start with a woman increases the likelihood that you WON'T have a relationship. The feelings generally have to be -there- for women to have sex (although plenty still have sex without feelings for the guy of any kind). Having sex may deepen a relationship, but I don't think it causes a woman to fall in love and want to start a relationship. I think that folks who are relationship-minded typically wait a little bit longer to get into the sack, but again, that's not everyone.

 

What's your best bet in getting a girl? Take care of your body. Develop your own personal interests - read, go to a gym, watch shows that you like, take craft courses (hey, you can make some kick-ass stuff), learn to cook, start learning a foreign language and on and on. Make -yourself- an interesting person that women couldn't resist.

 

Go to places where women in your age bracket are likely to be. If I recall,you're in your late 20s, right? Most women are looking to settle down for real by then. Introduce yourself, be polite, etc. If your ultimate goal is getting in the sack, that's going to show through whenever you pursue a woman.

[verhrzn]

Of course she'll get tipsy on her on accord. It's not like I'm going to tie her down and stick an IV in her.

 

Getting my confidence up is an entirely diffrerent thing. Though actually getting somewhere with a girl for once in my life would help.

 

I still got a year in school, I rather not stay celibate for that time.

 

And it's laughable how you think I'm no longer a nice guy for thinking that alcohol could help.

 

Tell me, for those drunken kisses you've had. How many of those were first kisses? And would you have kissed the guy had you not had some drinks first?

 

I'm not into going to bars and picking up random women.

 

What I'm just talking about is taking a girl I met elsewhere to have some drinks or offer her something at my place. Which seems to be the totally normal thing to do, and yet everybody is getting on my case about it...

 

People are getting on your case about it because you're offering a girl something/taking her out for drinks SPECIFICALLY so you have a better chance of sleeping with her!

 

No you wouldn't "track her down and stick an IV in her"... but that's an extreme interpretation of my wording, and you know it.

 

And no, there's a good chance I wouldn't have had those kisses if not for the booze, but at least I myself was the one deciding "Okay I'm gonna have a drink to loosen up." It's amazingly easy for people (men and women) to succumb to social pressure to "drink more"... If I didn't have the superhuman ability to resist peer pressure that I do (not a joke, my friends are constantly complaining about how they can't get me to go past my two-drinks limit), and a guy was pushing drinks towards me all night, I probably WOULD have drank even more, and than regretted whatever came next.

 

It's not necessarily the behavior (buying or giving a girl a drink) that's creepy, but the intention (and self loathing) behind it that's tripping off people's radar. What nice guy thinks he needs to booze a girl up to get laid? What nice guy decides that HE'S going to enable her to drink more so she'll sleep with him? (As opposed to HER deciding she's gonna buy that drink herself.) That is NOT the behavior of a nice guy, it's the behavior of someone who thinks he has to manipulate a girl into giving him what he wants.

 

And the whole "well if I had luck with girls I'd have confidence!" is a false association. As you've pointed out in other threads, I've had boyfriends. Has it increased my self esteem or confidence even one little bit? No, no it has not. Insecurity and confidence are internal... you can be just as insecure with lots of experience as you can with no experience.

 

Even if your "get em drunk and they'll like me!" plan succeeded, it wouldn't increase your confidence for long... Yeah, you'd get laid. But then alcohol would become the crutch you use to get sex, because in the back of your mind you'll think "She would never be doing this except for the alcohol."

[waynesworld]

If you're just looking for sex, then sure, alcohol works. If you're looking for more, drunken hookups aren't the answer. They're awkward, and the morning after, neither of you will likely be impressed with whom you wake up next to.

[grkBoy]

Hmm, so alcohol does make women horny?

 

The second paragraph makes me think that I've been wasting my time solely trying to get girls while they are completely sober.

 

Yeah...it's amazing how much inhibitions are lowered when alcohol is in the system. My once and only one-night-stand happened when a snobby b***h of a girl got drunk, started making out with me, then later was tearing my clothing off. I had another girl in my past who wanted to take it slow, but she got drunk on the first date and was the one pushing me onto her bed and taking my clothes off. Mind you all, that was the woman I did try to make a RL with, but she went psycho/headcase and ran away.

 

NOW...I'm NOT advocating just getting women drunk. I will say when she has a few drinks in her, even if she's still very coherent, she will have the guard down, and thus isn't sitting there fishing for 1000 reasons to walk away. She is still in control of herself, but she's not worried to death about what her friends will think or if society will call her "whore".

 

It's sad women go out with too much on their minds and thus these big walls of insecurity and fear.

 

The hard reality is many guys need to first get her over her own insecurities and fears. Look at that movie Hitch. I always remember this from it:

 

Sara: I heard every word. You're a scam artist. You trick women into getting...

 

Hitch: Into getting out of their own way so great guys like Albert Brennaman have a fighting chance.

 

Speed Dating Host: Please...

 

Hitch: No, no, no. I want-— [gestures at speed-dating scene] I want everybody to take a look at this right now! Because this — this right here — this is exactly why falling in love is so goddamn hard!

[zengirl]

I do believe people have to tear down some walls (and be vulnerable) to actually connect with another human being, so that's a valid point, but when that vulnerability only occurs with alcohol or drug use, you're dealing with a very unhealthy pathology, really. I sincerely hope that's not what the world is coming to.

[dasein]

What I'm just talking about is taking a girl I met elsewhere to have some drinks or offer her something at my place. Which seems to be the totally normal thing to do, and yet everybody is getting on my case about it...

 

Oh, OK, misunderstood your question. Don't buy the guilt trip, do you think the advice would be as protective and preachy if the genders were reversed? Of course not. "Don't you dare take advantage of a drunken man!!" LOL. Whatever.

 

Of course use alcohol, it is a great aphrodisiac, like the right cologne. 1-2 bottles of wine shared with a woman over an evening is a great idea. If she doesn't want to drink, she won't, simple as that. Rest is noise. Try to combine the alcohol with food, even appetizers. Even beer or ale goes great with some food, sometimes scotch or vodka.

 

Sipping vodka with caviar can be a very sensual experience that leads to sex, women love that kind of thing, and men who can patch into their sensuality using food and drink. They also love men who can introduce new sensations to them, like a warm, dark bread with butter and a dry ale, scotch and something bittersweet like black dark high cocoa chocolate. With wine, the sky is the limit, so many possibilities.

 

Environments and booze are great too. Sharing cocktails on a rooftop on a cool windy night has led to some incredible sex. The key is to mix the alcohol with other sensations, not just sit and babble with each other while getting hammered. Learn to mix some good drinks with personal touches. Women notice those. Learning to make a nice fresh zingy Bloody Mary is a good place to start. Don't TALK about the personal touches, when they ask just smile and nod. Don't worry they notice them, you don't have to say anything.

[betterdeal]

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/20051_257603128970_257602673970_3135340_2838232_n.jpg

[zengirl]

Oh, OK, misunderstood your question. Don't buy the guilt trip, do you think the advice would be as protective and preachy if the genders were reversed? Of course not. "Don't you dare take advantage of a drunken man!!" LOL. Whatever.

 

FTR, I would find it creepy if a woman wanted to get a man drunk in hopes of changing his mind about sex as well. I don't think it's appropriate to be groping or undressing or jumping all over a drunk, blacked out male any more than a female, nor do I think it's a good idea to intentionally drug or overpour a man's drinks in any dishonest scheme. (Granted, physiologically speaking, he may not be in working order for everything anyway if you do, but molesting him still wouldn't be okay.)

 

That said, not saying that it's odd to offer someone a drink at your place. It's just the whole, "If I give her a few beers, will she sleep with me?" question that's weird. Eh. . . maybe. But if she/he sleeps with you SOLELY because of the beer, isn't that kind of gross?

[doushenka]

My personal opinion is that if you avoid "ruin and drama" completely, you probably have a less than fulfilling sex life. Not that you always want to have those things, but they're sort of naturally occurring things when you have an active sex life.

 

No.

 

Best sex of my life happened well after I ditched the drama. Is still happening, actually. Settled sex can be brilliant--effort is the key, not sturm und drang.

[dasein]

Some more things I forgot. When choosing alcohol don't go cheap. Don't give in to BS about super premium brands, but don't buy the 7.99 a fifth stuff either. That's college stuff, for kids. Keep good glassware, never ever give an adult woman a beer in a bottle unless it fits the environment, always give it in a glass, it tastes better anyway. Get decent appropriate glassware, it's cheap. Never serve anyone alcohol in plastic or styrofoam cups unless it's meant to be walked around with. Keep beer mugs or preferably ale glasses in the freezer. Have decent wine glasses. It makes a difference in their responsiveness.

 

Back to the environment thing. Just as a woman's outfit and accessories are her attraction layout, the environment is yours. Combine music, alcohol, the locale, and food together with forethought. Think about what would be something good to drink and eat in a given place, what would be good to listen to? When out roaming around, always be thinking about a place that makes a good canvas for seduction while appearing natural, not stilted or put on like a big deal. It's not something to make your life's work, just keep in mind when you run across a cool place. Very few men do this and doing this right will make them putty in your hands.

Edited November 11, 2011 by dasein

[somedude81]

So you do have girls coming round to your home? Well in that case, I think it's totally normal to offer them a drink. As a woman I wouldn't have an issue with that, but I would expect the drink to be wine rather vodka or some other spirit. Maybe it's just me, but I think spirits have more of a connotation of "trying to get drunk" whereas wine is more social.

Personally, I don't care for the taste of wine and don't know anything about it. From what I've heard, most early 20's women don't like wine that much either. So mixed drinks seem to be the best way to go.

 

My main emphasis, when I've been alone with a guy and there's alcohol on the go, is "how much is he drinking?" Even with a trusted male friend, I will get tetchy if he's drinking a lot...because alcohol can bring out an unexpectedly unpleasant side to some people.

That is a very valid concern.

 

If anything, when I'm close to drunk I just feel warm and relaxed. And for some reason, I've still been too scared to make moves on girls.

I think having sex from the start with a woman increases the likelihood that you WON'T have a relationship. The feelings generally have to be -there- for women to have sex (although plenty still have sex without feelings for the guy of any kind). Having sex may deepen a relationship, but I don't think it causes a woman to fall in love and want to start a relationship. I think that folks who are relationship-minded typically wait a little bit longer to get into the sack, but again, that's not everyone.

I'm not talking about from the start. But I'm tired of spending time with women and not getting anything at all.

 

Honestly, I'm not sure on the sex = love thing but I've heard it from more than a few women.

What's your best bet in getting a girl? Take care of your body. Develop your own personal interests - read, go to a gym, watch shows that you like, take craft courses (hey, you can make some kick-ass stuff), learn to cook, start learning a foreign language and on and on. Make -yourself- an interesting person that women couldn't resist.

 

Go to places where women in your age bracket are likely to be. If I recall,you're in your late 20s, right? Most women are looking to settle down for real by then. Introduce yourself, be polite, etc. If your ultimate goal is getting in the sack, that's going to show through whenever you pursue a woman.

Thanks but that's all really generic advice that I've been doing. Hasn't helped me with women at all.

People are getting on your case about it because you're offering a girl something/taking her out for drinks SPECIFICALLY so you have a better chance of sleeping with her!

And why is that bad?

 

Why is it wrong to consider something that might actually give me a fighting chance?

 

And it's not like I'm even considering raping somebody.

 

No you wouldn't "track her down and stick an IV in her"... but that's an extreme interpretation of my wording, and you know it.

Yes it's an extreme interpretation, but I really have no idea what you were talking about.

 

The most I can do is offer her a drink and maybe a little bit of insistence if she doesn't want to. Something like, "Are you sure, I can make it taste really good? No, ok, that's fine."

 

And no, there's a good chance I wouldn't have had those kisses if not for the booze, but at least I myself was the one deciding "Okay I'm gonna have a drink to loosen up."

All the more reason for me to try it. Or at least provide an environment where it can happen.

It's amazingly easy for people (men and women) to succumb to social pressure to "drink more"... If I didn't have the superhuman ability to resist peer pressure that I do (not a joke, my friends are constantly complaining about how they can't get me to go past my two-drinks limit), and a guy was pushing drinks towards me all night, I probably WOULD have drank even more, and than regretted whatever came next.

I hadn't even thought about using social pressure.

It's not necessarily the behavior (buying or giving a girl a drink) that's creepy, but the intention (and self loathing) behind it that's tripping off people's radar. What nice guy thinks he needs to booze a girl up to get laid? What nice guy decides that HE'S going to enable her to drink more so she'll sleep with him? (As opposed to HER deciding she's gonna buy that drink herself.) That is NOT the behavior of a nice guy, it's the behavior of someone who thinks he has to manipulate a girl into giving him what he wants.

Yeah, I'm a nice guy who hasn't kissed a woman in 5 or so years. So obviously what I've been doing is wrong.

 

And what's this talk about enabling?

 

 

And the whole "well if I had luck with girls I'd have confidence!" is a false association. As you've pointed out in other threads, I've had boyfriends. Has it increased my self esteem or confidence even one little bit? No, no it has not. Insecurity and confidence are internal... you can be just as insecure with lots of experience as you can with no experience.

You're a woman.

 

Confidence works completely different for women and the way you get it is completely different. Frankly, a woman getting a boyfriend is not an accomplishment at all. So it makes since that getting one won't do a think for her confidence, unless she had to work really hard for some reason.

Even if your "get em drunk and they'll like me!" plan succeeded, it wouldn't increase your confidence for long... Yeah, you'd get laid. But then alcohol would become the crutch you use to get sex, because in the back of your mind you'll think "She would never be doing this except for the alcohol."

Eh, doesn't bug me at all.

 

Most likely I know that alcohol was just the key to getting things started, and I'd have to do the rest to keep a relationship working.

Yeah...it's amazing how much inhibitions are lowered when alcohol is in the system. My once and only one-night-stand happened when a snobby b***h of a girl got drunk, started making out with me, then later was tearing my clothing off. I had another girl in my past who wanted to take it slow, but she got drunk on the first date and was the one pushing me onto her bed and taking my clothes off. Mind you all, that was the woman I did try to make a RL with, but she went psycho/headcase and ran away.

Heh, so it can be an aphrodisiac.

 

Now I need to start thinking of dates I can do where alcohol can be involved.

 

Stuff like going to the aquarium, or bowling or to the beach are fun but they've never resulted in anything happening beyond a hug.

 

NOW...I'm NOT advocating just getting women drunk. I will say when she has a few drinks in her, even if she's still very coherent, she will have the guard down, and thus isn't sitting there fishing for 1000 reasons to walk away. She is still in control of herself, but she's not worried to death about what her friends will think or if society will call her "whore".

 

It's sad women go out with too much on their minds and thus these big walls of insecurity and fear.

 

The hard reality is many guys need to first get her over her own insecurities and fears. Look at that movie Hitch. I always remember this from it:

 

Sara: I heard every word. You're a scam artist. You trick women into getting...

 

Hitch: Into getting out of their own way so great guys like Albert Brennaman have a fighting chance.

 

Speed Dating Host: Please...

 

Hitch: No, no, no. I want-— [gestures at speed-dating scene] I want everybody to take a look at this right now! Because this — this right here — this is exactly why falling in love is so goddamn hard!

That's a great scene.

 

Something seriously is wrong with women.

I do believe people have to tear down some walls (and be vulnerable) to actually connect with another human being, so that's a valid point, but when that vulnerability only occurs with alcohol or drug use, you're dealing with a very unhealthy pathology, really. I sincerely hope that's not what the world is coming to.

Based on how my life has been, that's how the world is.

Oh, OK, misunderstood your question. Don't buy the guilt trip, do you think the advice would be as protective and preachy if the genders were reversed? Of course not. "Don't you dare take advantage of a drunken man!!" LOL. Whatever.

 

Of course use alcohol, it is a great aphrodisiac, like the right cologne. 1-2 bottles of wine shared with a woman over an evening is a great idea. If she doesn't want to drink, she won't, simple as that. Rest is noise. Try to combine the alcohol with food, even appetizers. Even beer or ale goes great with some food, sometimes scotch or vodka.

 

Sipping vodka with caviar can be a very sensual experience that leads to sex, women love that kind of thing, and men who can patch into their sensuality using food and drink. They also love men who can introduce new sensations to them, like a warm, dark bread with butter and a dry ale, scotch and something bittersweet like black dark high cocoa chocolate. With wine, the sky is the limit, so many possibilities.

 

Environments and booze are great too. Sharing cocktails on a rooftop on a cool windy night has led to some incredible sex. The key is to mix the alcohol with other sensations, not just sit and babble with each other while getting hammered. Learn to mix some good drinks with personal touches. Women notice those. Learning to make a nice fresh zingy Bloody Mary is a good place to start. Don't TALK about the personal touches, when they ask just smile and nod. Don't worry they notice them, you don't have to say anything.

Thanks for the great ideas.

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/20051_257603128970_257602673970_3135340_2838232_n.jpg

Heh, I remember that.

 

I should have taken it to heart years ago.

That said, not saying that it's odd to offer someone a drink at your place. It's just the whole, "If I give her a few beers, will she sleep with me?" question that's weird. Eh. . . maybe. But if she/he sleeps with you SOLELY because of the beer, isn't that kind of gross?

Women won't sleep with me otherwise and I'm not ready to become a monk.

[somedude81]

No.

 

Best sex of my life happened well after I ditched the drama. Is still happening, actually. Settled sex can be brilliant--effort is the key, not sturm und drang.

Ha!

 

Something else I've been thinking about. Why women find it so hard to settle.

 

I'll make that thread later.

[dasein]

FTR, I would find it creepy if a woman wanted to get a man drunk in hopes of changing his mind about sex as well.

 

Fair enough. More than once in my life, I've had a friend of some buzzed girl finger wagging me for even flirting with her drunk friend as if she is the buzz police, and as if I'm supposed to become gallant man every time I meet some woman who caught a buzz. If they are too drunk to have rational judgment, they should a) go home, b) not drink so much to begin with, c) live with the consequences of choices they make while impaired instead of blaming others. Women out with friends often play this game of "protecting" their friends from the "evil men," and I find that childish and demeaning of women generally. That finger wagging attitude was more what I was responding to.

[zengirl]

Fair enough. More than once in my life, I've had a friend of some buzzed girl finger wagging me for even flirting with her drunk friend as if she is the buzz police, and as if I'm supposed to become gallant man every time I meet some woman who caught a buzz. If they are too drunk to have rational judgment, they should a) go home, b) not drink so much to begin with, c) live with the consequences of choices they make while impaired instead of blaming others. Women out with friends often play this game of "protecting" their friends from the "evil men," and I find that childish and demeaning of women generally. That finger wagging attitude was more what I was responding to.

 

I don't think it's an either/or. I think that, in that example given, men should have the good judgement (and self-respect, frankly) to decline a woman who is sloppy drunk, but I also think that women should have the good judgement not get sloppy drunk. I'm not a fan of sloppy drunks in general, actually! If you reverse the genders in that statement, I still agree with it. Everyone in the dynamic is responsible for their part in it, in my view.

 

That said, I don't think the practice of girls looking out for each other is bad. I look out for my friends who are more prone to drink more than they should, for their own safety, and they appreciate it. Doesn't mean I think the men who hit on them are 'evil' or anything, depending on their own actions. But it is good to look out for each other's safety. I've been roofied before, and I wouldn't have been able to get to the hospital without the help of my friends (1 male and 2 females were there with me at the time) who understood my near-incoherent ramblings of feeling drugged.

 

Now, drugging someone or intentionally masking the strength of a drink in some way to get them overly drunk, beyond what they would suspect, is wrong. But hitting on a pretty girl who happens to be drunk is not 'wrong' perse, though targeting drunk people because they're drunk is gross.

 

ETA: I think viewing sex as something to "get" or "take" from someone is odd. Two people who have sex should not be adversaries. It's not about 'winning' some game against the girl to have sex with her (or guy/him).

Edited November 11, 2011 by zengirl

[verhrzn]

Why is it wrong to consider something that might actually give me a fighting chance?

And it's not like I'm even considering raping somebody.

 

No, just manipulating them into giving you what you want. You say you won't use social pressure... and yet in the very same post you say...

 

"Are you sure, I can make it taste really good?"

 

Asking "are you sure" IS social pressure. It's not taking "no" for an answer. The woman would need to say no AGAIN for you to back off.

 

The fact that you're ignoring the posters, particularly the FEMALE posters, who are telling you 1) drunken sex in which they weren't already attracted to the guy hardly ever works and 2) your whole attitude is creepy and off-putting.

 

And guess what? The whole "well she just needs alcohol and then she'll realize she's attracted to me!" Without you FIXING what's wrong IN THE FIRST PLACE (you are self-loathing and make comments like "Something seriously is wrong with women") even IF you get laid, only women with serious personality problems will want to continue anything with you.

 

So is that gonna help your confidence? A woman sleeping with you and then pulling a disappear? Or is that really all you want... sex? Not a connection, not a mutually beneficial relationship founded on respecting and caring about the other person, but sex based on you getting some naive, susceptible girl smashed?

[AHardDaysNight]

I had a chance to do this one, but I passed it over. For one, I am not that type of guy...and secondly, the girl seemed like a nice girl.

 

She probably went home with another dude who wasn't as gentlemanly, but I wasn't raised to be that way...no matter how desperate I might be about losing my virginity!

 

I believe that there is a difference between "hooking up when drunk" and "one taking advantage of the other when they got them drunk to take advantage of them." One is just something you can laugh about later...the other is a very serious rape situation.

[dasein]

decline a woman who is sloppy drunk,

 

Thing is there's a long way between buzzed and sloppy drunk. I don't think any ethical man would counsel preying on women staggering around glassy eyed on the verge of throwing up. If she has obviously been drinking, and is more friendly, touchy, lovey dovey, though, that is very likely the exact state she wanted the alcohol to induce, and not my job to interpret.

 

As far as looking out for friends, sure, keep them from getting drunk and then leaving with a stranger, no prob. Hanging around and moderating all their interactions as something to do because the "cop" isn't getting any attention of her own? Childish and transparent. I deal with it all the time out and imagine most guys do.

 

ETA: I think viewing sex as something to "get" or "take" from someone is odd. Two people who have sex should not be adversaries. It's not about 'winning' some game against the girl to have sex with her (or guy/him).

 

So the sex act is not necessarily an aggressive "taking" of some kind from the woman? I recall a different attitude elsewhere, maybe from you or I may be confusing you with someone else, but I agree with the above generally.

[zengirl]

Thing is there's a long way between buzzed and sloppy drunk. I don't think any ethical man would counsel preying on women staggering around glassy eyed on the verge of throwing up. If she has obviously been drinking, and is more friendly, touchy, lovey dovey, that is very likely the exact state she wanted the alcohol to induce, and not my job to interpret.

 

Sure. If a woman has been drinking of her own accord (not pressured by you to do so -- and no buying someone a drink is not 'pressure') and has gestures of overt affection and can coherently express a desire to go home with you, by all means take her home with you! I've no ethical issues with that.

 

Sloppy drunk is another story, so we agree on that. Cool.

 

As far as looking out for friends, sure, keep them from getting drunk and then leaving with a stranger, no prob. Hanging around and moderating all their interactions as something to do because the "cop" isn't getting any attention of her own? Childish and transparent. I deal with it all the time out and imagine most guys do.

 

Depends. If her friends come over and 'remind' her she didn't want to go home with anyone, they may just be doing their 'job' (some girls want their friends to do so, sometimes they're just trying to let her know she has 'goggles' on and girls have set this up in advance, sometimes she's being a bitch and dissing her friends, which isn't on you, who knows?) and she may decline them or decline you at that stage. Those are all appropriate social dynamics. But the girl may have asked her friends to do that prior to going out; that happens all the time. You really don't know the motives.

 

ETA: For example, I have a friend, B, who ALWAYS drinks too much (I've seen her sloppy drunk A LOT, sadly) and expects us to do this when we go out with her. I'm getting too old for that ****, so I don't go out with her much, but she expects us to go over and pull her away from guys (particularly unattractive guys, as she gets hardcore goggles) when she's been drinking. She asks us to. She thanks us for doing so. I don't think it's a healthy dynamic, but I suppose it's healthier than letting her go home with the guy and not upholding our promise to help her out. Personally, I think she's a problem drinker, but we're friends from way back and I cannot fix that about her. Not at all the guy's fault if I have to pull her away, but I'm going to do it regardless because B is my friend and she wants me to.

 

So the sex act is not necessarily an aggressive "taking" of some kind from the woman? I recall a different attitude elsewhere, maybe from you or I may be confusing you with someone else, but I agree with the above generally.

 

You're definitely mixing me up with someone else. Or misunderstanding something I said. I DO think some men and women (dysfunctional people) see sex that way, but I'm against viewing it as adversarial. Glad we agree on that.

Edited November 11, 2011 by zengirl

[dasein]

That sex is a taking from women and a giving to men is something one hears lots of from feminists, sometimes expressed even more demonstratively as all sex is male on female aggression, even some extremists saying all sex is rape. So yes, am glad we agree.