Is alcohol the key to hooking up with women?

[Els]

People are talking about rape and sexual assault with broomsticks....

 

All I was doing was looking for an easier way of getting somewhere with women because what I've been doing hasn't been working.

 

I don't think you'll necessarily be prosecuted for rape, but it could be a real legal possibility in some places, so you may need to consider that.

 

Also, in all honesty, given what I know about you and your social awkwardness, my bet is that if you start out intending to get the woman drunk to hook up, it'll show through in your actions and words as plain as day. And that won't be pretty.

[dasein]

It's like asking me if I'd torture one man to get information that could save 50,000 people. I still wouldn't do it, it's wrong.

 

Now I'd actually do that. Could I just waterboard him a bit or would I have to get up under his fingernails or in his teeth? I charge extra for teeth.

[somedude81]

Well, you started out basically saying something about getting girls you know drunk for the purposes of having sex with them, which sounds pretty low. That's far removed from drunk hookups.

How the hell is it even possible to get somebody else drunk?

 

Of course I was talking about drunk hookups. And even then there are different levels of intoxication. I was not talking about trying to have sex with somebody who is completely wasted.

 

Frankly, I haven't ever been around girls when they were drinking so the whole situation is a mystery to me.

Also, in all honesty, given what I know about you and your social awkwardness, my bet is that if you start out intending to get the woman drunk to hook up, it'll show through in your actions and words as plain as day. And that won't be pretty.

And what do you think I'd even try to do?

[the wizard]

JMPO, any woman who gets drunk then hooks up with men she barely knows is a woman who's only good for one thing, hooking up. Don't date them unless you want to fall in love with a woman who's been with everyone. Ugh!

[Eclypse]

Ok plying someone with alcohol just to have sex with them is wrong. Obviously. But let's say hypothetically (and this is how I imagine it usually happens) you're at a bar, you meet someone. You've both had a bit too much to drink and the other person looks much more attractive than they really are. You fool around a bit and one thing leads to another and you both wake up together the next morning. You're both slightly repulsed that you sunk so low while drunk.

 

Now should the man go to jail simply because he has the penis? Because that's the impression I'm getting from a lot of posters.

[mayasophia]

just try to get them alone and spend some time with them. basically if you spend a lot of time with a woman, say multiple days a week and are getting physical, it will most likely turn into a relationship

[betterdeal]

Of course I would be upset if my son raped someone. But if he did, I would want him to go to jail for it.[

 

Do you know the difference between having done something and being accused of having done something? When you have done something, it has occurred whether or not someone says you have. When you are accused of something, it may or may not have occurred.

 

Would you be happy for your son to be convicted on the balance of probabilities if he was accused of rape?

 

"Beyond a reasonable doubt" only applies in court. And it should.

 

Do you know the difference in the levels of proof required fro a civil case and criminal case? In a civil case, the claim can be upheld on the balance of probabilities: it probably happened. In a criminal case, it can be upheld (the defended found guilty) only if there is no (reasonable) doubt that it happened.

 

And since we're talking about convicting and gaoling people it makes sense that we're talking about what happens in court.

 

Of course a jury can't convict anyone without a reason.

 

Why "of course"? You're now sounding like you would rather convict someone only there if was no doubt he or she did it. Why not just fly off the lid and convict anyway? That's how your posts have sounded so far.

 

But when I say no one believes the victim, I'm not just talking about the jury. Quite often, her own family and friends don't believe her, the police assigned to her case don't believe her, her classmates don't believe her. People hear the gossip and decide that the victim must be lying. This is why so many people think false rape claims are common. And that's the #1 reason why many rape victims don't even report the crime. They're afraid no one will believe them. (The #2 reason is fear of the rapist, who has made threats to keep her quiet.)

 

Oh right. I'm still not sure what you want the legal system to do about alleged rape cases. There are two people to consider in each case where rape is alleged: the complainant and the defendant. You appear to have no concern for the defendant.

 

As for disbelief beyond the courtroom, yes, that definitely happens. People have been shown to rationalise suffering in others as being due to something the sufferer has probably done (funny how that relates to balance of probabilities, don't you think?) Despite being grown ups and knowing life isn't fair, people like to think these terrible fates will not happen to them or their close ones, and so they (ir)rationalise that the person they see suffering must have done something intrinsically wrong, and therefore since they don't do that wrong thing, that terrible fate will not happen to them. It helps them sleep at night.

 

Why would I ever have to make such a choice? You make it sound like these scenarios are mutually exclusive. Are you suggesting that it's one or the other: either rapists go free or innocent men go to jail? Are those really the only options, and does one automatically prevent the other? They seem to be totally unrelated. There is no relationship between cause and effect.

 

If we decide to convict people of rape based on balance of probabilities to increase the conviction rate, the effect is that innocent people are convicted of rape. Does clarify the cause and the effect for you?

 

Or do you believe there will be no cases of innocent people being convicted even if the way the jury or judge determines they are guilty is "they probably did it"? You do know that if you do believe that, you're wrong.

 

I would rather see rapists convicted and sent to jail. I would rather have every rape victim believed. Truly, I think it's worse for a rapist to go free under any circumstances.

 

Well then, suggest something other than "beyond a reasonable doubt" as an alternative for a court to determine if someone is guilty.

 

Bear in mind that as soon as there is a way to lock people up, some people have a tendency to abuse that process to do things like discredit and get rid of people they don't like, such as other politicians, or business competitors, or Blacks or Jews, as history has shown.

 

The rate of unfounded cases is, in most large studies, estimated at about 2-3% (Wikipedia has a page about it) which is no different from most serious crime. False accusations are, IMO, not a major issue with rape (at least, not in the sense of being at abnormally high levels).

 

The difference between how many cases are believed to be founded and how many lead to convictions lies mostly in the fact that, currently, we apply the "beyond a reasonable doubt" level of proof in such cases. It's not always rape to have sex with someone, so it becomes a matter of one person's version of events against the others. Under the current "beyond a reasonable doubt" system, the benefit of the doubt goes to the person accused, i.e. they are acquitted (not declared proven to be innocent, declared to have no case to answer to, except in Scotland, where an "innocent" and "not proven" verdicts are possible, IIRC)

 

In terms of police prejudice and denial by others of the trauma experienced by someone, there is definitely room for improvement by education and legislation, although the irrational habit of many people to assume the complainant must be to blame in some way for it as I mentioned before is a hard one to kick especially in a Christian society (bring back the malevolent deities of the Romans and you might have a better chance). It will have negligible (hardly any) effect on conviction rates because you come back to the same issue of how to make safe convictions without gaoling innocent people, unless you succeed in getting everyone to believe every rape allegation, in which case the judge and jury will convict whatever the evidence - cue malicious allegations for political expediency.

 

Which brings us back to, if your son was accused of rape, would you rather he went to gaol (where he would be likely to be raped) because 12 people thought he probably did it, or because 12 people were certain he did it and nothing in court had caused any doubt in their minds?

Edited November 17, 2011 by betterdeal

[oaks]

How the hell is it even possible to get somebody else drunk?

 

I imagine by encouraging them to drink something that has more alcohol in than they realise.

 

Of course I was talking about drunk hookups. And even then there are different levels of intoxication. I was not talking about trying to have sex with somebody who is completely wasted.

 

Thanks for clarifying.

 

Frankly, I haven't ever been around girls when they were drinking so the whole situation is a mystery to me.

 

And what do you think I'd even try to do?

 

Well, based on your original post plus what you've just written, it sounds like you're looking for a drunk girl to have sex with. If you haven't been around drunk girls before then just make sure that you're really sure that they're capable of consenting to anything they agree to do. Get yourself down to a nightclub - lots of girls having a drink there.

[somedude81]

I'm not talking about meeting random women at bars and clubs and trying to hook up with them. But girls I already know that I may have interest in already.

 

I'm tired of spending time with girls where nothing ever happens. My guess is that with a couple of drinks girls would finally start seeing me more than just a buddy. And once we hooked up a relationship could happen.

 

Somebody else already said it. A relationship has a much better chance of happening from a drunken hookup then starting from a friendzone.

 

I would love to meet a new girl and have sex with her one to two months later without becoming her new girlfriend. And from what I've heard about, alcohol can lower a woman's inhibitions so she might give me a chance.

 

Frankly, I'm just thinking I need to do reconsider what a date is to me so I don't keep getting put in the friendzone.

Edited November 17, 2011 by somedude81

[aj22one]

I'm not talking about meeting random women at bars and clubs and trying to hook up with them. But girls I already know that I may have interest in already.

 

I'm tired of spending time with girls where nothing ever happens. My guess is that with a couple of drinks girls would finally start seeing me more than just a buddy. And once we hooked up a relationship could happen.

 

Somebody else already said it. A relationship has a much better chance of happening from a drunken hookup then starting from a friendzone.

 

I would love to meet a new girl and have sex with her one to two months later without becoming her new girlfriend. And from what I've heard about, alcohol can lower a woman's inhibitions so she might give me a chance.

 

Just don't be transparent about it, and make sure she's not completely out of it. Just act natural and be really flirty/touchy.

 

It's not my preferred way of doing things, but when you're on a cold streak, sometimes you gotta take them any way you can get 'em.

[Art_Critic]

I'm not talking about meeting random women at bars and clubs and trying to hook up with them. But girls I already know that I may have interest in already.

 

I'm tired of spending time with girls where nothing ever happens. My guess is that with a couple of drinks girls would finally start seeing me more than just a buddy. And once we hooked up a relationship could happen.

 

Somebody else already said it. A relationship has a much better chance of happening from a drunken hookup then starting from a friendzone.

 

I would love to meet a new girl and have sex with her one to two months later without becoming her new girlfriend. And from what I've heard about, alcohol can lower a woman's inhibitions so she might give me a chance.

 

Somedude.. this post is rather..ummm pathetic...

Grow a set of balls and figure out how to date a woman without alcohol..

 

I haven't been a drinker most of my life and all the women I dated and even married I did it without any aids like drugs or alcohol... so can you..

 

Besides.. a few women that I did date that drank on dates also drank to excess and they weren't really good relationship material anyhow.

 

You honestly sound like you are considering an almost date rape scenario..

You should really back off that ledge and look at the path you are pointed down..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_rape_drug

 

Alcohol

 

Alcohol remains the most commonly used date rape drug,[4] being readily available as well as legal. Many assailants use alcohol because their victims often willingly imbibe it, and can be encouraged to drink enough to lose inhibitions or consciousness. Even if the victim agrees to sex, the act may be considered rape in some jurisdictions if the victim's judgment was impaired or incapacitated by alcohol. Some assailants have committed "rapes of convenience" whereby they have assaulted a victim after he or she had become unconscious from drinking too much.

 

Just something that maybe you might want to re-consider since is seems to be rambling around in your head..

[somedude81]

Just don't be transparent about it, and make sure she's not completely out of it. Just act natural and be really flirty/touchy.

 

It's not my preferred way of doing things, but when you're on a cold streak, sometimes you gotta take them any way you can get 'em.

What do you mean don't be transparent?

 

There is no way I'd have sex with a girl who wasn't coherent or too loopy.

 

Cold streak doesn't begin to describe what I've got going on.

[somedude81]

Somedude.. this post is rather..ummm pathetic...

Grow a set of balls and figure out how to date a woman without alcohol..

 

I haven't been a drinker most of my life and all the women I dated and even married I did it without any aids like drugs or alcohol... so can you..

NEWSFLASH!

 

I'm 30 years old and have never had a girlfriend!

 

Of course I'm pathetic.

 

Either say something helpful or get the hell out of MY thread!

[jobaba]

I'm not talking about meeting random women at bars and clubs and trying to hook up with them. But girls I already know that I may have interest in already.

 

I'm tired of spending time with girls where nothing ever happens. My guess is that with a couple of drinks girls would finally start seeing me more than just a buddy. And once we hooked up a relationship could happen.

 

Somebody else already said it. A relationship has a much better chance of happening from a drunken hookup then starting from a friendzone.

 

I would love to meet a new girl and have sex with her one to two months later without becoming her new girlfriend. And from what I've heard about, alcohol can lower a woman's inhibitions so she might give me a chance.

 

Frankly, I'm just thinking I need to do reconsider what a date is to me so I don't keep getting put in the friendzone.

 

 

Yea, it can happen. My most serious girlfriend was the result of a drunken hookup. Of course, I had gotten together with her only a few times. So I wasn't in the friendzone yet.

 

As far as dates, getting drunk on the first date is NOT a good idea. I've been on quite a number of dates and the woman rarely drinks on the first date.

 

The thing to remember SD, is that you must enjoy drinking for this to work. I'm a world renowned alcoholic. I can handle my liquor and then some. I know exactly how much to drink so that I've got my buzz on ... to tipsy and good ... to stoopid trashed.

 

If you're not used to drinking and you get trashed after a cocktail and 2 beers, it's going to ruin everything for you with ANY woman. Take that into consideration.

[Art_Critic]

NEWSFLASH!

 

I'm 30 years old and have never had a girlfriend!

 

Of course I'm pathetic.

 

Either say something helpful or get the hell out of my thread!

 

I did go to edit the post..

I didn't say YOU were pathetic.. but your post certainly was sounding pathetic.

 

Get out of your thread.. no effing way will I allow you to post date rape scenarios without calling you out on that type of illegal trash.

You seem like you are on the edge of doing something you that won't make you feel any better in the end...

 

If you post a public thread such as this then you can expect public answers.. just because you don't like that fact that I don't think you should go down a date rape type road doesn't mean I can't post my opinions on your scenario.

Edited November 17, 2011 by Art_Critic

[somedude81]

Yea, it can happen. My most serious girlfriend was the result of a drunken hookup. Of course, I had gotten together with her only a few times. So I wasn't in the friendzone yet.

Can you tell a bit more about that? How it happened, how long you knew each other before etc.

 

 

As far as dates, getting drunk on the first date is NOT a good idea. I've been on quite a number of dates and the woman rarely drinks on the first date.

Yeah I don't see it as a first date thing. But it needs to happen at some point before the girl locks in her mind what she seems me as.

The thing to remember SD, is that you must enjoy drinking for this to work. I'm a world renowned alcoholic. I can handle my liquor and then some. I know exactly how much to drink so that I've got my buzz on ... to tipsy and good ... to stoopid trashed.

 

If you're not used to drinking and you get trashed after a cocktail and 2 beers, it's going to ruin everything for you with ANY woman. Take that into consideration.

I would not get trashed. I would drink enough to just loosen me up and turn off the noise that's in my head.

[somedude81]

Get out of your thread.. no effing way will I allow you to post date rape scenarios without calling you out on that type of illegal trash.

Date rape?

 

Give me a break.

 

Your concern has been noted. Thank you.

[Floridaman]

I'm not talking about meeting random women at bars and clubs and trying to hook up with them. But girls I already know that I may have interest in already.

 

I'm tired of spending time with girls where nothing ever happens. My guess is that with a couple of drinks girls would finally start seeing me more than just a buddy. And once we hooked up a relationship could happen.

 

Somebody else already said it. A relationship has a much better chance of happening from a drunken hookup then starting from a friendzone.

 

I would love to meet a new girl and have sex with her one to two months later without becoming her new girlfriend. And from what I've heard about, alcohol can lower a woman's inhibitions so she might give me a chance.

 

NEWSFLASH!

 

I'm 30 years old and have never had a girlfriend!

]

We sense your frustration, SomeDude.

We've all been there and had dry spells.

 

I had a big dry spell @29-30. Just a couple months after I turned 30, met a gal I got serious with in dating and everything (for once) began to click.

But that was after dating -- and trying to date -- many other women where it didn't always go so well.

 

Please listen to Tecknoe.

Read the threads he started.

As he posted, he was a lot like you in his late 20s and 30s.

What he posted may help you get into a relationship.

 

If that means you visiting religious singles groups (where women are), go do that kind of thing and meet more women.

[jobaba]

Can you tell a bit more about that? How it happened, how long you knew each other before etc.

 

 

 

Yeah I don't see it as a first date thing. But it needs to happen at some point before the girl locks in her mind what she seems me as.

 

I would not get trashed. I would drink enough to just loosen me up and turn off the noise that's in my head.

 

Sure man. I met her through my band at the time and gave her a ride home one time. We stopped off to get a drink and she told me a little about herself. I wanted to pursue but was cautious at first, so I'd invite her to group settings. So the third time we hung out, we were hanging out with some of my friends getting trashed and I just started touching her. My friend gave us a ride home and we made out in the back of the car on the way home. And that was that. We had a lot in common and dated for a few years. I still talk to her.

 

This was when I was in my late 20s. That worked. But if I were to do it today, I'd jump right in and ask her out on a date. Lessens the chance of one of your d@uchebag friends stealing her away from you.

[aj22one]

What do you mean don't be transparent?

 

There is no way I'd have sex with a girl who wasn't coherent or too loopy.

 

Cold streak doesn't begin to describe what I've got going on.

 

I mean don't make it look like you're trying to get her drunk or what have you. Just go out have a good time and perhaps the alcohol makes here more "open" to your advances. Just don't be creepy I guess is what I'm saying.

 

Some people immediately see "drunk + sex = rape" without really thinking about it. I don't think what you're doing is all that "wrong" really.

 

I know how you feel...sorta. I was 20 before I did anything with a woman. A girl took the reins so to speak and I guess it was the shake up I needed. I've never used alcohol to get women though, I don't drink and I've only ever had alcohol maybe a handful of times in my life. So I have no direct experience in this scenario.

[somedude81]

We sense your frustration, SomeDude.

We've all been there and had dry spells.

 

I had a big dry spell @29-30. Just a couple months after I turned 30, met a gal I got serious with in dating and everything (for once) began to click.

But that was after dating -- and trying to date -- many other women where it didn't always go so well.

 

Please listen to Tecknoe.

Read the threads he started.

As he posted, he was a lot like you in his late 20s and 30s.

What he posted may help you get into a relationship.

 

If that means you visiting religious singles groups (where women are), go do that kind of thing and meet more women.

A dry spell? I've never even had anything. The only people who can really relate are the guys who've gone without for four or more years. It's a certain feeling of being completely pathetic that most men never get to experience.

 

Teknoe completely annoys me. Thankfully he hasn't posted in this thread, I hope I didn't just jynx it.

[jobaba]

A dry spell? I've never even had anything. The only people who can really relate are the guys who've gone without for four or more years. It's a certain feeling of being completely pathetic that most men never get to experience.

 

Teknoe completely annoys me. Thankfully he hasn't posted in this thread, I hope I didn't just jynx it.

 

Haha. That's me man. Which is why I try and help you.

 

A dry spell of a year is not even a dry spell for me. Try seven years. And I was trying pretty hard for a good amount of those seven years.

[carhill]

OP, let say you have a drunken hookup with some gal you hardly know. In the cold light of the next day, when you're back to strangers, will that event advance your cause?

 

If you want to 'hook up' with women, that's easy. My take is that you want a meaningful relationship with a compatible person. That's not so easy. Alcohol won't lubricate the way to that kind of interaction, IME.

 

And, yeah, I walked your path many years ago. My take-away at the other end of it was that I wasted a lot of my life energy on something which isn't that important in the overall scheme of life. YMMV.

[somedude81]

Sure man. I met her through my band at the time and gave her a ride home one time. We stopped off to get a drink and she told me a little about herself. I wanted to pursue but was cautious at first, so I'd invite her to group settings. So the third time we hung out, we were hanging out with some of my friends getting trashed and I just started touching her. My friend gave us a ride home and we made out in the back of the car on the way home. And that was that. We had a lot in common and dated for a few years. I still talk to her.

 

This was when I was in my late 20s. That worked. But if I were to do it today, I'd jump right in and ask her out on a date. Lessens the chance of one of your d@uchebag friends stealing her away from you.

Cool. Sounds like it worked out. Any idea if the booze helped things along?

Haha. That's me man. Which is why I try and help you.

 

A dry spell of a year is not even a dry spell for me. Try seven years. And I was trying pretty hard for a good amount of those seven years.

Damn that's a long time. So you know my pain.

I mean don't make it look like you're trying to get her drunk or what have you. Just go out have a good time and perhaps the alcohol makes here more "open" to your advances. Just don't be creepy I guess is what I'm saying.

That's exactly what I'm talking about.

Some people immediately see "drunk + sex = rape" without really thinking about it. I don't think what you're doing is all that "wrong" really.

I'll just start ignoring them. I know what kind of person I am and what I can and can't do.

 

I know how you feel...sorta. I was 20 before I did anything with a woman. A girl took the reins so to speak and I guess it was the shake up I needed.

Sorry bro, you don't have a clue how I feel.

 

Losing your virginity at 20 to a GF is normal. Being 30 and not having been in a relationship is not.

OP, let say you have a drunken hookup with some gal you hardly know. In the cold light of the next day, when you're back to strangers, will that event advance your cause?

As I said time and time again, I'm not talking about girls I hardly know.

 

Odds are it will be a girl I've met at school, work or some other social function. We'll get to know each other a bit before anything happens.

 

Though I'm still at a loss how I can even get a girl into a situation where we can drink.

 

If you want to 'hook up' with women, that's easy. My take is that you want a meaningful relationship with a compatible person. That's not so easy. Alcohol won't lubricate the way to that kind of interaction, IME.

I want to hook up with girls I like.

 

That has not been easy. More like impossible.

[carhill]

'Know' is in the intimate sense. People we know every day from casual interaction are a magnitude removed from those who are close friends or lovers. They're essentially familiar faces and names. I could name hundreds of people I 'know', none of whom I have a clue about regarding intimacy. If I were to 'hook up' with one, they'd be a familiar face and name with whom I had sex. In every way which matters, they'd still be a stranger, albeit a familiar one.

 

You have the same 'problem' I did at your age, that you want to build a relationship from liking someone, getting to know them and feeling sexual about them as a result of that process. It's pretty clear. That's a relationship 'style'. The cadres of women you're meeting evidently don't have that style, rather more the 'hook up with a guy who makes them wet and then see how it goes' style. Once you meet a woman with a compatible style, all this angst will be long forgotten. Rather than boil your balls in frustration, why not just accept that the women you meet aren't compatible with your style and take proactive steps to meet others. Lose the venting and devote the energy to something more productive.

 

What I did, back then, was save my money and start traveling the world. I figured, if my intrinsic style was unattractive locally, perhaps a wider audience might have a different perception. Bingo. Your path will be your own.