Happy for him, AND his wife...?

[skylarblue]

I genuinely felt that I would be happy if MM recommitted to his M and all was happy between them. I’ve tried several times to convince MM to work on his M. Even though I sincerely want him/them to be happy, I’ve recently had thoughts that would disagree with that. A few months ago, I saw a fitness mag belonging to MM’s W. At first, I thought sarcastically “how cute”. When I saw she’d purchased the following month’s issue I kinda got pissed. It was like I was mad that she was putting in any effort to try to improve the R between her and her H. MM and I decided to end our R a few days ago. Since then I’ve had thoughts hoping he was taking his misery out on her therefore making her miserable. Or that they won’t go back to the happy, pre-A couple. I know it is wrong of me to think that way and I’m surprised I have. When I do, I quickly remind myself to not think that way. I really do want MM to be happy, but I guess I don’t want him/them to be too happy.

[frozensprouts]

i've read the responses and thought about it, but i still don't understand it.

 

 

if someone says to me " i want my ex-married man/woman to be happy in their marriage if that is what makes them happy", then why even get involved withb them in the first place? if you want their marraige to be happy, then why get involved in a relationship with them?

 

i know that many say their marriages aren't happy in the first place, etc., but i think it's pretty hard to argue that having an affair will do much to improve the situation.

 

this is not meant as a jab, it is just an observation.

[woinlove]

i've read the responses and thought about it, but i still don't understand it.

 

 

if someone says to me " i want my ex-married man/woman to be happy in their marriage if that is what makes them happy", then why even get involved withb them in the first place? if you want their marraige to be happy, then why get involved in a relationship with them?

 

i know that many say their marriages aren't happy in the first place, etc., but i think it's pretty hard to argue that having an affair will do much to improve the situation.

 

this is not meant as a jab, it is just an observation.

 

One is words and the other is action. Often these two don't align in an affair. A WS may say "I didn't want to hurt you" and the BS might reply "then why did you?" The point is, in an ideal world, the WS would have like to have an A and also not have the BS hurt. But when it came to the real world and actions, they chose to take care of themselves and not the BS.

 

In most cases, people are not talking about concrete actions here. They are talking about feelings and those may be projected on an ideal or fantasy world, where they can want to be with, and even be with, the MM while still "feeling" that they would be happy if the MM stayed married and was happy. They don't necessarily want to actually do something to make it more likely that the MM would stay married and happy -- that would be an action.

[Silly_Girl]

i've read the responses and thought about it, but i still don't understand it.

 

 

if someone says to me " i want my ex-married man/woman to be happy in their marriage if that is what makes them happy", then why even get involved withb them in the first place? if you want their marraige to be happy, then why get involved in a relationship with them?

 

i know that many say their marriages aren't happy in the first place, etc., but i think it's pretty hard to argue that having an affair will do much to improve the situation.

 

this is not meant as a jab, it is just an observation.

 

I get that you can't appreciate that particular situation. If you met someone who was dead inside, romantically and spiritually, who came alive and fulfilled as a result of the relationship, and you thought they were a wonderful, loving person... Why wouldn't you wish that they could that in their life? Maybe not with you, maybe with their spouse? I think you're trying to apply what some of us have experienced to the LS-MM charicature.

[MissBee]

Were you close friends with his wife? I'm wondering about the "AND his wife" in your title and "all 3 people". Why was/is the wife a concern for you so that you think in terms of 3 people as if they were on equal footing in your mind?

My own tendency was to try not to think of the W at all as it didn't feel good thinking about the W when involved physically and emotionally with her H. Later, I did feel some guilt in thinking of her and did try to offset that with some positive feelings - but likely, I was really just thinking of myself. Do you think you feel some guilt toward the wife?

 

Those are my sentiments....the situation was never this communion between the 3 of us where I was concerned about her and how she felt and working things out so all 3 of us could be happy or so that he could be happy with her. It would be disingenuous for me to say that I was invested in their relationship working out...I was not...or else I would have left him alone and/or given him counseling on how to work on that I did not. My concern was on us as a coupled unit and not a triage between all of us.

 

I think for me (and many people): I can be happy for someone I love...but nevertheless my wishes usually are that I hope their happiness can include me as well and not be at my expense. That's the truth. In my A it wasn't a matter of choosing between me and her as I said earlier...but for example, with my most recent ex, at the time, I wanted him to be happy BUT I hoped more than anything that his happiness wouldn't exclude me and that somehow he could also be happy and I could be happy too with his choices. His decisions later on to be with other women were not met with my congratulations and authentic happiness...I was upset! I felt rejected! That's the truth. Intellectually I wanted him to be happy but viscerally I did not want that to mean he would be happy with another and no part of me was truly delighted he was with another woman. It was only after much removal and emotional detachment that I came to really feel like whatever choices he made that brought him happiness are fine with me.

 

It's like being a parent and having your child choose something diametrically opposed to what you want for them...you cannot help but feel hurt or even try to dissuade them. You of course want them to be happy, you of course don't want to wish bad on them, if it all works out, you will no doubt feel great...but nevertheless there is still a part of you that can't help be hurt and you may not genuinely want to support that decision and say "Oh yess I am rooting for you to drop out of college to join the circus". You're not rooting for that decision....you do however want their happiness and if that is what will make them happy, you hope it can pan out...but to say you are genuinely rooting for that choice....probably not.

Edited November 11, 2011 by MissBee

[frozensprouts]

Those are my sentiments....the situation was never this communion between the 3 of us where I was concerned about her and how she felt and working things out so all 3 of us could be happy or so that he could be happy with her. It would be disingenuous for me to say that I was invested in their relationship working out...I was not...or else I would have left him alone and/or given him counseling on how to work on that I did not. My concern was on us as a coupled unit and not a triage between all of us.

 

I think for me (and many people): I can be happy for someone I love...but nevertheless my wishes usually are that I hope their happiness can include me as well and not be at my expense. That's the truth. In my A it wasn't a matter of choosing between me and her as I said earlier...but for example, with my most recent ex, at the time, I wanted him to be happy BUT I hoped more than anything that his happiness wouldn't exclude me and that somehow he could also be happy and I could be happy too with his choices. His decisions later on to be with other women were not met with my congratulations and authentic happiness...I was upset! I felt rejected! That's the truth. Intellectually I wanted him to be happy but viscerally I did not want that to mean he would be happy with another and no part of me was truly delighted he was with another woman. It was only after much removal and emotional detachment that I came to really feel like whatever choices he made that brought him happiness are fine with me.

 

this is what i was trying to say, but you put it much better ( you usually do:laugh:)

 

as much as i would like to believe that i am an enlightened person who can put others before myself, i just can't seen the sceario in the original post in this thread working for me.

 

if i reverse the situation ( which would frame in it a way that meshes with my own experiences), if my husband had decided to end our marriage and continue in his relationship with the other woman, I don't see how, on any level, that would have made me happy. Even though i love him dearly, i just can't see me feeling that way.

after much time had passed, maybe that would change, but i don't see it.

 

the idea that someone's other man/woman could be counseling someone about their marriage but they are still chosing to remain in the other man/woman doesn't make any sense to me at all. to me, the first step in seeing if the marraige could be repaired would be for the other man/woman to bow out until their affair partner determines the true state of their marraige and whether or not it can be repaired.

i guess i just don't buy the idea of the other man/woman as a marriage counselor to their affair partner

[SoMovinOn]

You say that you would be glad if he was 'happy", but how would you determine this?

 

The best way to determine if someone is happy is to ask them. They may lie to you, either way, but, it's really only their opinion that counts. If they think they are happy, they are, and if they think they aren't, they're not.

 

If someone I loved told me they'd be happy with someone else, I would simply believe them and leave it at that. The last thing I'd want if for someone I loved to be with me for any reason other than because that's what they wanted to do.

[SoMovinOn]

if someone says to me " i want my ex-married man/woman to be happy in their marriage if that is what makes them happy", then why even get involved withb them in the first place? if you want their marraige to be happy, then why get involved in a relationship with them?

 

I cannot define what makes someone else happy. If MM/MW is involved in a A, obviously, committing to their M is not what they feel would make them happy. If at some later point in time, they decide otherwise, then the AP who wishes them to choose whatever it is that makes them happy, supports their decision in mind and action (i.e. stepping away from the R).

[SoMovinOn]

if i reverse the situation ( which would frame in it a way that meshes with my own experiences), if my husband had decided to end our marriage and continue in his relationship with the other woman, I don't see how, on any level, that would have made me happy. Even though i love him dearly, i just can't see me feeling that way.

after much time had passed, maybe that would change, but i don't see it.

 

I see it before the A, and told my W exactly this before we got M - If you ever feel you need to be with someone else, feel that I am not what you need, I will love you enough to let you go. ... and, had she been honest with me about how she felt, it would have been much easier on both of us. I wouldn't have flipped out. I wouldn't have tried to tell her she couldn't. I wouldn't have demanded an immediate D. She knows that, but she can't fathom that level of honesty and love, because she can't be that honest, nor can she love, in any capacity.

 

That doesn't mean *I* would be entirely happy with it. I would most assuredly be sad about what it meant to me, but I would be happy that *she* was happy. ... but then, nothing about her ONS's or A's made her happy.

[frozensprouts]

I see it before the A, and told my W exactly this before we got M - If you ever feel you need to be with someone else, feel that I am not what you need, I will love you enough to let you go. ... and, had she been honest with me about how she felt, it would have been much easier on both of us. I wouldn't have flipped out. I wouldn't have tried to tell her she couldn't. I wouldn't have demanded an immediate D. She knows that, but she can't fathom that level of honesty and love, because she can't be that honest, nor can she love, in any capacity.

 

That doesn't mean *I* would be entirely happy with it. I would most assuredly be sad about what it meant to me, but I would be happy that *she* was happy. ... but then, nothing about her ONS's or A's made her happy.

 

somovimgon,

 

i'm sorry, but i don't think that your version of "honesty" or "love" are the same as mine ( nor an awful lot of other people's). You are cheating on your spouse with a married woman, you have cheated before ( if i understand you properly, please correct me of I am wrong). To me , these do not equate, on any level, with honesty or love.

 

Your cheating on your spouse rather than divorcing her has little to do with "love" or honesty. To be quite frank, I'm not sure what your reasons are, and even if i did, i don't think i'd understand them.

[frozensprouts]

The best way to determine if someone is happy is to ask them. They may lie to you, either way, but, it's really only their opinion that counts. If they think they are happy, they are, and if they think they aren't, they're not.

 

If someone I loved told me they'd be happy with someone else, I would simply believe them and leave it at that. The last thing I'd want if for someone I loved to be with me for any reason other than because that's what they wanted to do.

 

and you feel that you could totally emotionally divest yourself of the situation and give honest and bias free advice on how your married affair partner should fix her marriage which would mean there would would be a very high chance that she would end her relationship with you to focus on her marraige?

 

that's like asking coke to give pepsi advice on how to make a better cola

 

how can you not see the inherant hypocracy in someone giving marraige advice to their married affair partner...serriously... am I totally nuts here in thinking the idea is somewhat ridiculous?

[MissBee]

and you feel that you could totally emotionally divest yourself of the situation and give honest and bias free advice on how your married affair partner should fix her marriage which would mean there would would be a very high chance that she would end her relationship with you to focus on her marraige?

 

that's like asking coke to give pepsi advice on how to make a better cola

 

how can you not see the inherant hypocracy in someone giving marraige advice to their married affair partner...serriously... am I totally nuts here in thinking the idea is somewhat ridiculous?

 

 

 

I may be nuts too....

 

I'm sorry but there is no way I was giving my A partner advice on his relationship...in fact, a "plus" (if you can call it that) of my A....and why I think I allowed it was that I really knew nothing about his relationship, muchless to be advising him on it. I think my A was bred in a situation in which I was afforded the opportunity to ALMOST forget of the existence of a third party. I think that is why I was able to do it...and even then here and there it would become apparent that there was a third party and it would make me sick and upset. Therefore, it is very hard for me to comprehend how one comfortably conducts an A...all the while hearing about how horrible this 3rd party is or the relationship, knowing them, AND WORST giving your lover advice on how to work on their relationship with this person. It doesn't compute for me.

[MissBee]

duplicate post

[Silly_Girl]

as much as i would like to believe that i am an enlightened person who can put others before myself, i just can't seen the sceario in the original post in this thread working for me.

 

Putting others before oneself wasn't what I was getting at, though. It was wishing them well if they decided, finally, to actually do something about the state of their marriage.

[Silly_Girl]

 

It's like being a parent and having your child choose something diametrically opposed to what you want for them...you cannot help but feel hurt or even try to dissuade them. You of course want them to be happy, you of course don't want to wish bad on them, if it all works out, you will no doubt feel great...but nevertheless there is still a part of you that can't help be hurt and you may not genuinely want to support that decision and say "Oh yess I am rooting for you to drop out of college to join the circus". You're not rooting for that decision....you do however want their happiness and if that is what will make them happy, you hope it can pan out...but to say you are genuinely rooting for that choice....probably not.

 

Are you a parent? What sort of scenario are you thinking of? Your analogy is off though. 'quit school and join the circus' is vastly different to 'return to your pre-existing marriage and try and figure this out so that you and her don't spend the rest of your lives in wedded purgatory, or so you can split cleanly both knowing you did your best'.

 

It is absolutely possible to encourage soneone in a decision that is at odds to your own wants/needs because it's good for them. My work life will be totally shot if my right-hand woman leaves and I'd probably have to move on from the best job/salary I ever had to something lesser. But things aren't working for her on a couple of fronts so I'd be delighted for her if she found something perfect. As Summer Breeze said: 'bittersweet'...

[Silly_Girl]

and you feel that you could totally emotionally divest yourself of the situation and give honest and bias free advice on how your married affair partner should fix her marriage which would mean there would would be a very high chance that she would end her relationship with you to focus on her marraige?

 

that's like asking coke to give pepsi advice on how to make a better cola

 

how can you not see the inherant hypocracy in someone giving marraige advice to their married affair partner...serriously... am I totally nuts here in thinking the idea is somewhat ridiculous?

 

Who's giving their MAP marriage guidance? Not me. I did say that if things didn't work out between he and I and transforming his marriage was the way to go there were several things I'd advise/suggest. Such as his wife not seeing her MM. Me not seeing my guy was a given because the instant that was the choice I'd not be hanging about like I was watching some sort of soap opera. It would be for them to do, and to reap the rewards if it paid off.

[Silly_Girl]

 

I may be nuts too....

 

I'm sorry but there is no way I was giving my A partner advice on his relationship...in fact, a "plus" (if you can call it that) of my A....and why I think I allowed it was that I really knew nothing about his relationship, muchless to be advising him on it. I think my A was bred in a situation in which I was afforded the opportunity to ALMOST forget of the existence of a third party. I think that is why I was able to do it...and even then here and there it would become apparent that there was a third party and it would make me sick and upset. Therefore, it is very hard for me to comprehend how one comfortably conducts an A...all the while hearing about how horrible this 3rd party is or the relationship, knowing them, AND WORST giving your lover advice on how to work on their relationship with this person. It doesn't compute for me.

 

If you were in denial as to the existence of a spouse, stands to reason you'd not be able to be happy for them as two people separate from yourself.

 

As for the bolded, I can't comment as that wasn't my experience and I don't recall reading an OW's posts in that vein.

[Summer Breeze]

this is what i was trying to say, but you put it much better ( you usually do:laugh:)

 

as much as i would like to believe that i am an enlightened person who can put others before myself, i just can't seen the sceario in the original post in this thread working for me.

 

if i reverse the situation ( which would frame in it a way that meshes with my own experiences), if my husband had decided to end our marriage and continue in his relationship with the other woman, I don't see how, on any level, that would have made me happy. Even though i love him dearly, i just can't see me feeling that way.

after much time had passed, maybe that would change, but i don't see it.

 

the idea that someone's other man/woman could be counseling someone about their marriage but they are still chosing to remain in the other man/woman doesn't make any sense to me at all. to me, the first step in seeing if the marraige could be repaired would be for the other man/woman to bow out until their affair partner determines the true state of their marraige and whether or not it can be repaired.

i guess i just don't buy the idea of the other man/woman as a marriage counselor to their affair partner

 

Again I haven't had time to reread the thread but I don't think anyone has said anything about counselling about the M. Wishing someone the best because it's part of the person you care for being happy is a far cry from counselling. My xMM never really spoke of his W but when I walked away I hoped he'd do things the right way. If he did then it would hopefully make them both happy. I guess I don't see that as strange.

[Summer Breeze]

I get that you can't appreciate that particular situation. If you met someone who was dead inside, romantically and spiritually, who came alive and fulfilled as a result of the relationship, and you thought they were a wonderful, loving person... Why wouldn't you wish that they could that in their life? Maybe not with you, maybe with their spouse? I think you're trying to apply what some of us have experienced to the LS-MM charicature.

 

I agree SG.

 

My opinion is this. A married person does not fall into an A if the M is healthy and happy. The problem may be with the M or it may be internally an issue with the WS. At the end of the day they are not happy with something. I could see a difference in xMM from the moment we started talking and it grew through the time we were socially close and flourished when we were together. Why? No idea. He wasn't happy about something and being with me gave him some happiness. When I walked away because I wanted more I reminded him of it and how I hoped somehow he found a way to do the same again in his M. To this day I hope he is happy and by virtue of him being happy I would assume she is too so I wish her to be happy as well.

[Summer Breeze]

Really? I mean... an old girlfriend might pop into my head from time to time, but I really don't go into a mental lapse about what became of her. Its more like I would see something that reminds me of her/them(I'm not a man-whore. I've had maybe five relationships in all, with three being somewhat serious) that makes me think of them, but that's the jest of it.

 

I think you're making a meal of what I said. I don't go into mental lapses and never said I did. I think of them when a song plays or when I drive through a certain part of town. I might go to a diner where we went as kids. All sorts of things trigger different thoughts and I wonder. I didn't say I sat and looked out the window at a perfect moon and pined for the 12 year old I left behind (when I was 12 as well!).

 

I do the same with xMM. In all honesty he may cross my mind during the day but I don't think about him or my xH in any great depth till I'm in here. I still hope they're happy though and that includes their wives.

[SoMovinOn]

i'm sorry, but i don't think that your version of "honesty" or "love" are the same as mine ( nor an awful lot of other people's).

 

I think honesty is a pretty easy one. If you have some other version, then, OK.

Love... I'm sure everyone here has a different idea of what love is.

 

You are cheating on your spouse...

 

No. I am not cheating on my spouse.

 

You have cheated before ( if i understand you properly, please correct me of I am wrong).

 

I have, on my first wife, and, as a SG, I've dated married women. Also, as a SG, I dated a number of SW at the same time. In none of those situations was their any dishonesty involved. If I was dating, I told my W. The MW I dated, their H's were aware we were dating.

 

To me , these do not equate, on any level, with honesty or love.

 

Because you are thinking of a single type of A. My current A with MW is the only one I have been involved it that would fit your narrow definition. Her H is unaware of my R with her, and we take every step possible to keep it that way, primarily to avoid him physically hurting her.

 

Your cheating on your spouse rather than divorcing her has little to do with "love" or honesty. To be quite frank, I'm not sure what your reasons are, and even if i did, i don't think i'd understand them.

 

I think you would. I've explained them before, but have no problem doing so again. I would have D my W two years ago, but ... she didn't have a job and hadn't had one for 6 years prior. The housing market tanked, so selling the house wasn't an option. We had other shared financial obligations and issues to deal with (primarily due to her not working for so long). She is a hoarder, so she has a ton of crap to clean out and get rid of. Over the past few years, she became a severe alcoholic, and suffers from depression that has been anywhere from severe to worse over the past few years (worsened by her failed A's). She also has some medical issues (primarily due to her alcoholism) so getting a D would create a problem for her in that she'd lose her medical coverage (insurance through my job).

 

When I told her we were splitting up 2 years ago, I told her we didn't need to do anything immediately in order to give her time to find a job, get professional help to deal with her demons, get our finances in order, figure out what to do with the house, give her time to get herself together and get out, etc. I also told her she was free to date or do whatever else she pleased from that moment on (not as though she hadn't already been doing exactly that), and that I might do the same (I had not yet, at that point, reconnected with GF).

 

I could have booted her on D-Day, but I didn't, because she said she wanted to stay, wanted to stay M, wanted to work things out. I spent 15 months doing everything I could, while she did nothing. At the end of those 15 months, I told her I had no idea what else to do for her, that she needed professional help, that, although we were splitting up, I would continue to do anything and everything I could for her, help her in any way I could.

 

I do. I have. I still do. ... even though she doesn't deserve an ounce of caring from me.

 

I see my GF for lunch now and then. W stays at a BF's house, getting drunk and sleeping, for days. If she gets a DUI or creates other legal trouble, I risk spending tens of thousands of dollars to deal with it, money I don't have. The safe, smart thing for me to do would be to D her. I don't, because doing so would put her out on the street (none of her BF's care enough to offer her a permanent place to stay - they tire of her after a few days and send her home), as well as create further difficulties for her financially, medically, emotionally.

 

I do all this, and put up with her abuse and other problems, because I love her. I don't like her. I can't be M to her - because I can't trust her. ... but I will always love her. That's not something I can choose to stop.

 

So... do you want to explain to me again about how I don't know what love is??

[SoMovinOn]

and you feel that you could totally emotionally divest yourself of the situation and give honest and bias free advice on how your married affair partner should fix her marriage which would mean there would would be a very high chance that she would end her relationship with you to focus on her marraige?

 

Who said anything about giving her advice? It's pretty simple - if she comes to me one day and tells me she has decided she wants to stay M to her H, she feels she would be happier with him, I walk away and never contact her again.

 

how can you not see the inherant hypocracy in someone giving marraige advice to their married affair partner...

 

How do you think wanting your AP to be happy, in whatever manner they choose to do so, equates to giving them advice?

 

 

... am I totally nuts here...

 

Perhaps not totally.

 

 

...in thinking the idea is somewhat ridiculous?

 

It is a ridiculous idea. I have no idea how or why you came up with it.

[alexandria35]

I think honesty is a pretty easy one. If you have some other version, then, OK.

Love... I'm sure everyone here has a different idea of what love is.

 

 

 

No. I am not cheating on my spouse.

 

 

 

I have, on my first wife, and, as a SG, I've dated married women. Also, as a SG, I dated a number of SW at the same time. In none of those situations was their any dishonesty involved. If I was dating, I told my W. The MW I dated, their H's were aware we were dating.

 

 

 

Because you are thinking of a single type of A. My current A with MW is the only one I have been involved it that would fit your narrow definition. Her H is unaware of my R with her, and we take every step possible to keep it that way, primarily to avoid him physically hurting her.

 

 

 

I think you would. I've explained them before, but have no problem doing so again. I would have D my W two years ago, but ... she didn't have a job and hadn't had one for 6 years prior. The housing market tanked, so selling the house wasn't an option. We had other shared financial obligations and issues to deal with (primarily due to her not working for so long). She is a hoarder, so she has a ton of crap to clean out and get rid of. Over the past few years, she became a severe alcoholic, and suffers from depression that has been anywhere from severe to worse over the past few years (worsened by her failed A's). She also has some medical issues (primarily due to her alcoholism) so getting a D would create a problem for her in that she'd lose her medical coverage (insurance through my job).

 

When I told her we were splitting up 2 years ago, I told her we didn't need to do anything immediately in order to give her time to find a job, get professional help to deal with her demons, get our finances in order, figure out what to do with the house, give her time to get herself together and get out, etc. I also told her she was free to date or do whatever else she pleased from that moment on (not as though she hadn't already been doing exactly that), and that I might do the same (I had not yet, at that point, reconnected with GF).

 

I could have booted her on D-Day, but I didn't, because she said she wanted to stay, wanted to stay M, wanted to work things out. I spent 15 months doing everything I could, while she did nothing. At the end of those 15 months, I told her I had no idea what else to do for her, that she needed professional help, that, although we were splitting up, I would continue to do anything and everything I could for her, help her in any way I could.

 

I do. I have. I still do. ... even though she doesn't deserve an ounce of caring from me.

 

I see my GF for lunch now and then. W stays at a BF's house, getting drunk and sleeping, for days. If she gets a DUI or creates other legal trouble, I risk spending tens of thousands of dollars to deal with it, money I don't have. The safe, smart thing for me to do would be to D her. I don't, because doing so would put her out on the street (none of her BF's care enough to offer her a permanent place to stay - they tire of her after a few days and send her home), as well as create further difficulties for her financially, medically, emotionally.

 

I do all this, and put up with her abuse and other problems, because I love her. I don't like her. I can't be M to her - because I can't trust her. ... but I will always love her. That's not something I can choose to stop.

 

So... do you want to explain to me again about how I don't know what love is??

 

If everything you say about your wife is true then you sound like her enabler and enabling a person to continue in their life of alcoholism and self destruction isn't an act of love.

[findingnemo]

I think honesty is a pretty easy one. If you have some other version, then, OK.

Love... I'm sure everyone here has a different idea of what love is.

 

 

 

No. I am not cheating on my spouse.

 

 

 

I have, on my first wife, and, as a SG, I've dated married women. Also, as a SG, I dated a number of SW at the same time. In none of those situations was their any dishonesty involved. If I was dating, I told my W. The MW I dated, their H's were aware we were dating.

 

 

 

Because you are thinking of a single type of A. My current A with MW is the only one I have been involved it that would fit your narrow definition. Her H is unaware of my R with her, and we take every step possible to keep it that way, primarily to avoid him physically hurting her.

 

 

 

I think you would. I've explained them before, but have no problem doing so again. I would have D my W two years ago, but ... she didn't have a job and hadn't had one for 6 years prior. The housing market tanked, so selling the house wasn't an option. We had other shared financial obligations and issues to deal with (primarily due to her not working for so long). She is a hoarder, so she has a ton of crap to clean out and get rid of. Over the past few years, she became a severe alcoholic, and suffers from depression that has been anywhere from severe to worse over the past few years (worsened by her failed A's). She also has some medical issues (primarily due to her alcoholism) so getting a D would create a problem for her in that she'd lose her medical coverage (insurance through my job).

 

When I told her we were splitting up 2 years ago, I told her we didn't need to do anything immediately in order to give her time to find a job, get professional help to deal with her demons, get our finances in order, figure out what to do with the house, give her time to get herself together and get out, etc. I also told her she was free to date or do whatever else she pleased from that moment on (not as though she hadn't already been doing exactly that), and that I might do the same (I had not yet, at that point, reconnected with GF).

 

I could have booted her on D-Day, but I didn't, because she said she wanted to stay, wanted to stay M, wanted to work things out. I spent 15 months doing everything I could, while she did nothing. At the end of those 15 months, I told her I had no idea what else to do for her, that she needed professional help, that, although we were splitting up, I would continue to do anything and everything I could for her, help her in any way I could.

 

I do. I have. I still do. ... even though she doesn't deserve an ounce of caring from me.

 

I see my GF for lunch now and then. W stays at a BF's house, getting drunk and sleeping, for days. If she gets a DUI or creates other legal trouble, I risk spending tens of thousands of dollars to deal with it, money I don't have. The safe, smart thing for me to do would be to D her. I don't, because doing so would put her out on the street (none of her BF's care enough to offer her a permanent place to stay - they tire of her after a few days and send her home), as well as create further difficulties for her financially, medically, emotionally.

 

I do all this, and put up with her abuse and other problems, because I love her. I don't like her. I can't be M to her - because I can't trust her. ... but I will always love her. That's not something I can choose to stop.

 

So... do you want to explain to me again about how I don't know what love is??

 

SMO, people like you are the reason I hate labels. When one hears that you are M and yet seeing someone, it is difficult for them to imagine a situation like yours. Before you told your story, I was thinking "WTF?" One has to hear your story to understand where you are coming from.

 

Sometimes I wonder when the institution of M became more important than the individual human beings involved. We all have preconceptions about it and ignore the stark realities. I applaud you for realizing that yours is an individual situation that required an answer that works. D is not always the answer. When there are issues like yours, you just have to figure it out in a way that works for you. And loving your W regardless of her problems is something else. I'd want that for me. So kudos for making such a big sacrifice.

[woinlove]

woinlove, don't think anyone's suggesting any back-patting, just sharing thoughts and feelings and identifying with those who held/hold similar views.

 

And that's my point. Lots of us have had those feelings connecting with affairs, but I learned upon reflection that those feelings didn't match up with my actions at the time. So, positive feelings for the BS not connected to actual positive actions toward the BS, may just be a way to make us feel better. One can learn from asking oneself what actions back up those feelings.