NXS Posted November 12, 2011 Posted November 12, 2011 Sorry, but the "herbivore" boys in Japan are not a reaction to your notion of feminism, or against "entitled" women. It's wrong for you to try to appropriate this cultural phenomenon, which you obviously don't understand, to grind your sad man axe upon. These boys are responding to many aspects of Japanese culture, not the least of which are the roles their "businessman" fathers played in their lives. Yes, the changing roles of women are at play as well. It's not necessarily a negative thing. There are interesting articles about them on the Internet if anyone would like to learn more. Here's a link to one: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=120696816 Did you even read the article you posted: "a particularly important one in Japan, where the declining birthrate has caused alarm: The new Japanese man doesn't appear to be interested in women or sex. " "In the streets of Harajuku, Alex Fujita explains why he is not interested in taking it any further. "Nowadays, women have more education and enjoy working. Women are scary now," he says." Yes it also has to do with the traditional male role of the "salaryman" but that doesn't account for the changing views towards women and sex. Here's another example of how feminism destroyed society, this time in 1917 in Russia: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1926/07/the-russian-effort-to-abolish-marriage/6295/
ThsAmericanLife Posted November 12, 2011 Posted November 12, 2011 on the other hand, Thatone, if this is your way of discouraging some of the more angry posters here from voting... please continue I'd prefer they didn't vote either. Just keep 'em busy composing long rambling posts here.
Woggle Posted November 12, 2011 Posted November 12, 2011 i'll come visit in northern europe when you get there . you can't buy your friends, but you can pick them. you can even pick your family, in that you just don't associate with the ones who you dislike. actually i'm somewhat enjoying the politics back home as long as the ex's family are losing elections. the brother just lost one and her father will be losing another one in a couple of years. i don't really enjoy anyone winning, but i do take a lot of pleasure in certain people losing, whether they be local or national. i know one, me. not that i spend that money at the mall or at new furniture stores, mind you. i spend it on local skilled tradesmen. that's what's wrong. it's not that people spend their money on material things, people always did that. it's that they spend it on cheap corporate made junk. the consumer society we have is aimed at women since women do most of the shopping but men aren't hapless victims, they sign up for it just as women do. just as women buy thousand dollar strollers, men buy corvettes and mustangs and fiberglass boats and 20 thousand dollar motorcycles, all of which are pitiful excuses for modern machines compared to comparable things that were made decades ago. the town i was born in is a perfect example. it used to have a thriving local business community. now it has a bunch of fast food joints on the edge of town surrounding wal marts and targets, and they were convinced that the solution to their problems was being the site of a new prison, because more jobs would help the ailing older districts. there you have it. americans double down on bad ideas and stupid. and when their solution to the mess they've created is to get rid of anyone who questions the path they're on and give more control to corporate interests, well, i can't convince them. i'll just leave them to it when they run out of places that are worth living in. I fully agree with you that consumer culture has ruined America but I honestly do not believe this can be blamed on feminism. I am proud to say that mom and pops still own about 90% of my town.
ThsAmericanLife Posted November 12, 2011 Posted November 12, 2011 Here we have shaming, a violation of the community guidelines, and a giant rationalization all rolled into one. I did you the courtesy of explaining why accusing or insinuating holocaust denial was not good posting form, not funny. Most any rational person, the average man for instance, would have just let it drop there. Your response though? "Your posts are silly and nuts, go get a sense of humor." You know what that sounds like? Beavis and Butthead. Par for the course here on LS, just more privileged female pronouncements in a sea of them. I haven't 'accused' you of anything except being silly and ridiculous in your arguments. FYI... my mom's side of the family is German and I regularly spend passover with Jewish friends. I'm a Unitarian (and so respect all religions) We (as in me, and my friends) make fun of holocaust deniers because they are asanine. Not a big leap there. ... so, care to turn over that broken record you keep playing? Doesn't sound like it.
dasein Posted November 12, 2011 Posted November 12, 2011 but men aren't hapless victims, One major point in my posts to this thread has been that we are all to blame, fingerpointing does little good. Since feminism and other strands of victimization politics have been holding sway for decades now though, I don't think fingerpointing at those destructive cultural influences is as bad.
dasein Posted November 12, 2011 Posted November 12, 2011 flailing hopelessly on a message board you sound silly at best and nuts at worst with some of your posts silly and ridiculous in your arguments. ... so, care to turn over that broken record you keep playing? Lawlz 67890
Taramere Posted November 12, 2011 Posted November 12, 2011 I fully agree with you that consumer culture has ruined America but I honestly do not believe this can be blamed on feminism. I am proud to say that mom and pops still own about 90% of my town. I think thatone was also questioning the argument that feminism can be blamed for consumer culture. It's probably more accurate to say that feminism is one by-product of industrialised society, and the explosion in consumerism is another. When I was growing up, feminism tended to be associated with resistance towards over-consumption. Cosmetic surgery was an example of something that no self respecting feminist would opt for unless it was for something like serious burns or a congenital deformity (which small boobs or a less than beautiful nose are not). However, the advertising industry is extremely skilled in adopting all kinds of social movements, philosophies and lifestyle choices, and twisting them to its own advantage. Watch the following link to see how Freud's nephew Edward Bernays (father of PR) twisted the notion of feminism to encourage women to take up smoking. (kind of gives the lie to Freud's claim that "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar). Something like pro-porn feminism helps to bridge that gap between feminism and cosmetic surgery. Suddenly, women who regard themselves as feminists can undergo potentially dangerous and medically unnecessary operations in order to be prettier...and feel true to their feminist roots, because two powerful industries (porn and cosmetic surgery) have put a lot of money and effort into reassuring women that they can have false boobs, botox and liposuction and still be real feminists. As one friend said to me, when she lifted up her sweater to show me her new boobs, "I bought and paid for these myself. They're 100% mine!"
Taramere Posted November 12, 2011 Posted November 12, 2011 And, of course, the advertising industry has also been known to pander to the anti-feminist contingency http://www.oddee.com/item_96674.aspx
ThsAmericanLife Posted November 12, 2011 Posted November 12, 2011 (edited) Oh, and something just for you Dasein... (bless your heart!). Miranda Lambert - Only Prettier Edited November 12, 2011 by ThsAmericanLife
Woggle Posted November 12, 2011 Posted November 12, 2011 And, of course, the advertising industry has also been known to pander to the anti-feminist contingency http://www.oddee.com/item_96674.aspx They play both sides in the battle of the sexes and reap the profits.
Taramere Posted November 12, 2011 Posted November 12, 2011 TAL, TAL....you robbed me of my editing powers. I was about to delete my link because a) it is a commercial site b) when I took another look there was a load of naked women with (mainly silicon) boobs at the bottom of it. c) I thought it might, in some way, be deemed oppressive to men
ThsAmericanLife Posted November 12, 2011 Posted November 12, 2011 Lawlz 67890 ha ha... well... note to self. Daseign is a humorless curmudgeon.
NXS Posted November 12, 2011 Posted November 12, 2011 However, the advertising industry is extremely skilled in adopting all kinds of social movements, philosophies and lifestyle choices, and twisting them to its own advantage. Watch the following link to see how Freud's nephew Edward Bernays (father of PR) twisted the notion of feminism to encourage women to take up smoking. That's an fascinating 4 part documentary: The Century of the Self http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9167657690296627941
ThsAmericanLife Posted November 12, 2011 Posted November 12, 2011 TAL, TAL....you robbed me of my editing powers. I was about to delete my link because a) it is a commercial site b) when I took another look there was a load of naked women with (mainly silicon) boobs at the bottom of it. c) I thought it might, in some way, be deemed oppressive to men Sorry 'bout that! and about c) well golly... let's hope at least some others aren't going to have their sensibilities TOO offended, eh?
Taramere Posted November 12, 2011 Posted November 12, 2011 That's an fascinating 4 part documentary: The Century of the Self http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9167657690296627941 Yes. I saw one part (part 3 it was) some years ago, then more recently somebody from here linked me to it. It's very interesting.
ThsAmericanLife Posted November 12, 2011 Posted November 12, 2011 I posted a link to this on another thread... thought it had some relevance here for some of the more frustrated men seeking relationships with women who don't seek to be 'equals'. http://www.takeninhand.com/an.overview.of.taken.in.hand Don't get me wrong. I personally find the idea of what they are proposing to be pretty repulsive and counter to my experiences of what is 'healthy'. I can, however, stomach it long enough to see some similarities in their approach with some of the things a few posters here seem to want from a woman. Plus, if they do find someone there, perhaps that would be one less angry, whining guy here complaining about where all the 'good women' have gone.
NXS Posted November 13, 2011 Posted November 13, 2011 I posted a link to this on another thread... thought it had some relevance here for some of the more frustrated men seeking relationships with women who don't seek to be 'equals'. http://www.takeninhand.com/an.overview.of.taken.in.hand Don't get me wrong. I personally find the idea of what they are proposing to be pretty repulsive and counter to my experiences of what is 'healthy'. I can, however, stomach it long enough to see some similarities in their approach with some of the things a few posters here seem to want from a woman. Plus, if they do find someone there, perhaps that would be one less angry, whining guy here complaining about where all the 'good women' have gone. I used to think you feminists where clueless about men but now I'm starting to think you're clueless about women too.
ThsAmericanLife Posted November 13, 2011 Posted November 13, 2011 I used to think you feminists where clueless about men but now I'm starting to think you're clueless about women too. It's just an option. I see plenty of similarities between what some of the posters on this thread say they want in a woman and what people from the link I attached say is the ideal relationship between a man and a woman. The fact that there are women there happy to provide that seems like a win-win for both. Not for me, but who am I to judge? If some men sincerely believe they are being manipulated by 'feminist' doctrine and women in general, then the link I attached seemed like a perfect fit. I'm actually a bit mystified why you aren't thrilled at the prospect of meeting women who don't want to be treated as 'equals'. Seriously. So, what could your gripe possibly be now?? Lemme see... you don't believe that women should be treated equally... but you don't want to look for women who also believe that? What am I missing here?? Or maybe you are just mystified that I'd actually take the trouble to dig up a link for another site that might help these guys find someone they are compatible with? Even if it is diametrically opposed to my own viewpoint on relationships? Oh right... 'Feminists' don't care about men. I forgot.
Taramere Posted November 13, 2011 Posted November 13, 2011 We're back with the article for our second installment. http://www.thefrisky.com/2011-09-25/...-be-feminists/ Yes, feminism has ruined men and has destroyed a number of their lives, but not due to the efforts from clowns like this one. Nobody would listen to the lame suggestions offered by Feminist Me Me Me. She says, There are plenty of adult men out there who support women’s rights and work equally as hard to continue to make sure that girls and minorities are at the forefront of the discourse about equal rights. The question is, are we raising boys who are sensitive to inequity, critical thinkers, and culturally aware? Well, no. No we're not. Because if we were, then the nephew who you tried to brainwash would've pointed out to you that affirmative action amounts to state-sponsored discrimination against males on the behalf of women. That is the definition of social INjustice. So equal rights is the last thing feminists desire. I say be strong, be independent, wait your f--king turn. If women want to succeed, they should reject feminism. Reject it. Avoid stewing in their own grievances, and stop asking the government to intervene every time you get a hangnail, you wimp. Just a hint here: an independent woman is not one who's giving everything and then has the repulsive nerve to itch about it all day long. Women do not have it bad in the least. Stop lying. A critical thinker is not what princess Geezer wants, as he would stand up and defend himself. But fear not. Guys like me are going to try to fill the cultural void so that she can have a little more company in her arguments. What terrifies a pig like this the most is the thought of a guy like me talking freely with the boy and telling that kid the truth. If enough kids meet guys like me, then it's over. Seriously. You see, our side has the monopoly on the truth. The truth remains a very important impotent. Endorphin. Back to the octagon. It’s also interesting to note that there are several terms used for the male version of feminist: feminist, pro-feminist, and meninist ... You know, I like to add a few of my own. Let's see, we've got pansies, and then there's drone, and there's mangina. I think any of those three is great. I'm just trying to help her and add to her vocabulary. I'm sure she's going to use some of these words. I think we need to get beyond the labels and potentially negative meanings for each in order to reach an understanding of the main concepts. Let me translate this for the readers who are not used to this trash. No matter what feminists want to call their male allies, obvious arguments against shady men are inevitable. But she hopes to find a flattering term for her vassals. "Good boy, good boy! You obeyed me. Good boy!" Thus, she recommends that with young boys (and I'm sure you're going to agree here because she's so sensible), it's okay to ... --Teach these goys that it’s okay to be emotional and that holding feelings in is not what being a man is about. Um, no. Let's just teach them that emotions are just a fact of life. I mean, we all have emotions. What we should do is overcome those emotions. We need to try to embrace logic and reason over emotion every single time. That's what our goal should be. Can't always do it, I can't always do it, but we should try. People who are emotional all the time are known as basket cases. And, son, you don't want to be a basket case, now do you? No, I didn't think so. Become media literate so that they can become aware of how gender is portrayed in terms of what they are seeing and hearing. When a boy sees an ad or a TV show in which stereotypes are present, make sure you point it out. Better yet, read my posts, read dasein's posts, read Woggle's posts, thatone's, NXS's, musemaj's, and any other on-point guys who I'm leaving out so that you can become familiar with the evil forms that misandry takes. Misandry is a word that the press doesn't even recognize. But study up on it so that you can point out the ways that feminists perpetually lie about masculinity and have turned the basic fact of being a male into a hate crime. I'll be back here tomorrow in where I'm going to finish off this article. I'm beginning to think you're a militant feminist plant who's out to make men look ridiculous.
ThsAmericanLife Posted November 13, 2011 Posted November 13, 2011 One hundred percent agreed. Feminism has corrupted the minds of many. The ether has seeped its way into their ideas and likes of what they look for in relationships. But ether is bad for you, which explains all the disharmony in relationships. So many divorces and so many singles who are always in search for answers that will inevitably screw them over even more. Here you go... it was with you and a few others in mind that I posted this link. Both men and women at this site seem to share your viewpoint about male/female relationships. Perhaps you'll find some kindred spirits there. I personally find the idea of either gender 'controlling' their partner as counter to healthy relationships... However, given the number of men here (like you) who seem to be practically obsessed to the point of distraction about the idea of 'control' or 'power' being exercised by women in any way, shape, or form, I honestly felt that this group might be a better fit for you. There are women there who seem to share your viewpoint too. Now if you just want to be angry and complain.... can't really help you with that. http://www.takeninhand.com/an.overview.of.taken.in.hand Here is an excerpt from their site... "An overview of Taken In Hand A Taken In Hand relationship is a wholehearted sexually exclusive marriage in which, to the delight of both spouses, the man actively controls the woman. The degree of control and the way the husband retains control vary from Taken In Hand couple to Taken In Hand couple, but in all cases both husband and wife actively want the husband to have the upper hand. No matter how strong, tough and forceful a Taken In Hand wife may be, and no matter how hard she might try to take control in their marriage, she would be aghast if her husband were to let her get the upper hand. Likewise, no matter how loving, kind and considerate the husband may be, he prefers to keep his wife firmly in hand."
Taramere Posted November 13, 2011 Posted November 13, 2011 (edited) I personally find the idea of either gender 'controlling' their partner as counter to healthy relationships... However, given the number of men here (like you) who seem to be practically obsessed to the point of distraction about the idea of 'control' or 'power' being exercised by women in any way, shape, or form, I honestly felt that this group might be a better fit for you. There are women there who seem to share your viewpoint too. It's a good point. Why would a man not simply seek out a woman who subscribes to this Taken In Hand thing, rather than arguing for the entire world to conform to how he believes things should be? As long as that's the kind of relationship both parties want and are happy with, I've no problem with anybody entering into that kind of arrangement. It sounds like an extension of a consensual BDSM relationship where certain things are possible as a result of strong mutual trust and respect. I think the problems arise, around that kind of set-up, where a) the woman wants it because she doesn't really believe that she can function as an autonomous adult. Which is different from her knowing that she can function autonomously, but preferring to opt for this Taken In Hand thing. b) the man has a fundamental lack of respect for women that is a constant - regardless of whether or not they conform to his world view of how things ought to be. The wording used in the site you linked makes it sound as though there's strong love and mutual respect in these situations. However, there's certainly no guarantee of that. It depends on the emotional health of the individuals themselves. An unhealthy person isn't going to magically be transformed into a healthy one because they enter into a "Taken in Hand" relationship with another human being. Edited November 13, 2011 by Taramere
ThsAmericanLife Posted November 13, 2011 Posted November 13, 2011 It's a good point. Why would a man not simply seek out a woman who subscribes to this Taken In Hand thing, rather than arguing for the entire world to conform to how he believes things should be? As long as that's the kind of relationship both parties want and are happy with, I've no problem with anybody entering into that kind of arrangement. It sounds like an extension of a consensual BDSM relationship where certain things are possible as a result of strong mutual trust and respect. I think the problems arise, around that kind of set-up, where a) the woman wants it because she doesn't really believe that she can function as an autonomous adult. Which is different from her knowing that she can function autonomously, but preferring to opt for this Taken In Hand thing. b) the man has a fundamental lack of respect for women that is a constant - regardless of whether or not they conform to his world view of how things ought to be. The wording used in the site you linked makes it sound as though there's strong love and mutual respect in these situations. However, there's certainly no guarantee of that. It depends on the emotional health of the individuals themselves. An unhealthy person isn't going to magically be transformed into a healthy one because they enter into a "Taken in Hand" relationship with another human being. totally agree (about the relative health of the individuals). I've observed people draft all kinds of arrangements over the years... to the extent each person is self-aware and honest with themselves and others... and express that in a way that is not 'abusive'... pretty much dictates the health of their relationship. People get into trouble when they don't know themselves and have little or no accountability or willingness to be honest (and accept the consequences of such). As for this particular type of relationship, and others where one party is expected to play one type of 'role' most of the time... I'd have a hard time understanding how either party could act one way in private with their spouse (ie all dominant or all submissive) and another way with their co-workers and family. It is not intuitive to me how they could really be a fully integrated human being and be able to successfully adapt to the communication styles of other people. Hmm... perhaps that is the real issue on this thread.
NXS Posted November 13, 2011 Posted November 13, 2011 It's just an option. I see plenty of similarities between what some of the posters on this thread say they want in a woman and what people from the link I attached say is the ideal relationship between a man and a woman. The fact that there are women there happy to provide that seems like a win-win for both. Not for me, but who am I to judge? If some men sincerely believe they are being manipulated by 'feminist' doctrine and women in general, then the link I attached seemed like a perfect fit. Can you please point to some of the posts here where men have said they want to control women, frankly I don't see it at all. Most of the posts are about misandry and indoctrination, what has that got to do with men controlling women? To me it's about men standing up for their rights, for justice and fairness. It's not just about relationships either, it's about all aspects of society - law, education, health, employment, family etc I'm actually a bit mystified why you aren't thrilled at the prospect of meeting women who don't want to be treated as 'equals'. Seriously. Another lie, feminists don't want to be treated as 'equals', they want a la carte equality - more rights/benefits without responsibility. Feminism is about giving more to women at the expense of men via government intervention. So, what could your gripe possibly be now?? Lemme see... you don't believe that women should be treated equally... but you don't want to look for women who also believe that? What am I missing here?? No, I want women to be treated equally in every aspect of life and no more special privileges. Or maybe you are just mystified that I'd actually take the trouble to dig up a link for another site that might help these guys find someone they are compatible with? Even if it is diametrically opposed to my own viewpoint on relationships? Oh right... 'Feminists' don't care about men. I forgot. All you've done is attempted to divert the debate into something it's not about. It doesn't surprise though, most feminists are completely incapable of listening to men's point of view about anything and instead use the same old tactic of "oh you want to tie women to the kitchen sink again". It's getting a bit old now. Feminism, just like every other hate-filled ideology, will collapse leaving behind a trail of destruction. It's inevitable. We already see the breakdown in the family, alienation of young males and a generation of women who are deluded into thinking they're something they're most definitely not. There has been one unintended consequence of feminism though that has helped men. Sex has never been cheaper and easier to obtain without commitment and the negative aspects of women, which were previously overlooked, are now fully out in the open for all to see. Cheating, hypergamy, paternal fraud, which I suspect have all been going in since the beginning of time are now part of the awareness of younger males.
Anela Posted November 13, 2011 Posted November 13, 2011 What? They sound the same to me. If you're saying that he pays for the minority of those expenses, and you still give him blowjobs like the good girl that you are, then you are the best prostitute money can buy because he's getting all the goods at a bargain! What on earth? You're equating someone picking up a hooker, with two people who are in love and decided to spend their lives together?
dasein Posted November 13, 2011 Posted November 13, 2011 Can you please point to some of the posts here where men have said they want to control women, frankly I don't see it at all. Most of the posts are about misandry and indoctrination, what has that got to do with men controlling women? To me it's about men standing up for their rights, for justice and fairness. It's not just about relationships either, it's about all aspects of society - law, education, health, employment, family etc Another lie, feminists don't want to be treated as 'equals', they want a la carte equality - more rights/benefits without responsibility. Feminism is about giving more to women at the expense of men via government intervention. No, I want women to be treated equally in every aspect of life and no more special privileges. All you've done is attempted to divert the debate into something it's not about. It doesn't surprise though, most feminists are completely incapable of listening to men's point of view about anything and instead use the same old tactic of "oh you want to tie women to the kitchen sink again". It's getting a bit old now. Feminism, just like every other hate-filled ideology, will collapse leaving behind a trail of destruction. It's inevitable. We already see the breakdown in the family, alienation of young males and a generation of women who are deluded into thinking they're something they're most definitely not. There has been one unintended consequence of feminism though that has helped men. Sex has never been cheaper and easier to obtain without commitment and the negative aspects of women, which were previously overlooked, are now fully out in the open for all to see. Cheating, hypergamy, paternal fraud, which I suspect have all been going in since the beginning of time are now part of the awareness of younger males. Agreed, they simply refuse to discuss the actual issues, preferring to strawman and rationalize around, even telling us to "go elsewhere" to get what we want when all we want is to express a POV counter to the lies. My posts here on this topic are for lurkers and those who haven't gotten up the courage to speak out. Feminists are so entrenched and indoctrinated that any discussion of the actual issues is foreclosed. They will call you crackpot, silly, ridiculous, all manner of "non discussion" shaming because they have gotten so intellectually lazy over the last 40-60 years that they expect the lies to be accepted wholesale without question as they were at the start, and anyone who dares question the Emperor's Clothes is daft. Every time they do this they nail their own coffins in the eyes of the silent watchers. The wage gap is a lie. The glass ceiling is a lie. Historical oppression of women at the hands of men is a lie. The double standard of men being judged differently than women for sexual behavior is a lie. That there is social pressure forcing women to make choices they wouldn't otherwise make is a lie. That men who speak out against feminism want to shackle women is a lie. Any doctrine that polarizes the genders against each other is a lie. Any doctrine that preaches victimization and hate is a lie. That men who speak out against feminism hate women is a lie. That there was ever any "fight for women's rights" is a lie. That men control most of the wealth and power in society is a lie. The patriarchy is a lie. Calling any and all the above lies is not contrary to the rule of law, equality for all people, in fact promotes the rule of law. Real people don't lie.
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