ThsAmericanLife Posted November 11, 2011 Posted November 11, 2011 Have you ever actually asked other women why they work part-time or give up careers? I work in a government job that has approx equal numbers of men and women. About 40% of the women work either part-time or on a reduced working year (3/4 months off). Most of them have husbands who work full time or get other state benefits which allows them to take time off. None of them are the "oppressed victims" of social conditioning you're going on about. I suspect the reason why most of them chose to work in a government job is because it allows them to work part-time. On the other hand I've only ever met one man who doesn't work full-time, and is on a 4 day week. So much for choices eh? Men's choices are: work like a pack-mule for 40+ years or drop out of society. If women want to keep their careers going and have children then they should do what men do - marry men that have jobs that allow them take time off or be stay at home dads. In other words work as many hours as possible to be the breadwinner and hand over your paycheck, that's what most men do. Most men are not stupid enough to believe they can marry a woman of equal position or higher and expect them to give up a career so perhaps women should make the same choices. Yes I have talked to them. Their reasons for leaving their careers run the gamut. In only one case did any of them have a husband who was willing to stay home with the kids for any period... even when she was willing to be the breadwinner and hand over the paycheck. I know of three cases where they suggested the husband stay home. Their husbands rejected that offer. So they negotiated nannies or chose not to have children at all. When I was married, we talked about having children (although I told him before getting married I really wasn't interested). We still got pressure from everyone around us, so the topic came up again a few years after we were married. I was very willing to let him be stay at home dad (it was him and his family who was pressuring us to have kids) He refused. IMHO, that meant he really didn't want to be a dad either. I think you'll find that in countries where men are given equal access to paternity leave they do take it. The truth is in this country, companies give lip service to anyone who wants to have a balanced family and work life. Men or women. It isn't just men who are expected to be pack mules. Sure, when companies are hurting for employees, they offer family friendly policies. With the economy in the tank, those benefits are now being withdrawn. As the other thread about the DINK lifestyle attests too.... many men and women are choosing to forgo having kids at all for that reason.
dasein Posted November 11, 2011 Posted November 11, 2011 you sound like those folks who believe... ...the holocaust never happened ...the moon landing was an elaborate Hollywood hoax ...there is an alien being kept in Area 51 ...climate change can't possibly be influenced by human beings ...the world was literally created in 6 days Comparing someone who has a different opinion than yours to a holocaust denier is self-serving, disgusting, and reflective of not only a sick and ugly attitude, but of desperation. This is the third time in two days on these forums a feminist has resorted to that kind of perversion of reason or something similar. If that is your main argument against someone who believes differently than you, then your beliefs are indeed a house of cards. The lies of feminism were unfortunately accepted as facts years ago without question. Men just blindly accepted that women were in fact treated unequally and then allowed the biggest raw power grab in the 20th century to go unchallenged. That's right "unchallenged," that there ever was a "fight for women's rights" is another big, convenient lie. Politicians loved it because they found women to be a pliant constituency, easy to manipulate. The initial pack of lies has spiraled into a whole gigantic web of lies over 40-60 years that has wreaked untold damage in our society. Thankfully people are waking up to the lies and rebelling against them. Millions stand alongside with me in believing it's all lies, they have just been quiet until now. Among them, some of the loudest debunkers of feminism are women. We are getting noisier and more "inconvenient," just starting to speak out. And unlike other forums, it's harder to shout us down or shame us into silence on the internet, so feminists' two lazy favorite discussion devices are foreclosed. Like them... You are welcome to have your opinions of course. If you sound silly for having those opinions, don't be surprised at the reaction you get from people who prefer objective evidence over wishful thinking. The only sad part for you is that you are wasting so much of your energy being angry at the wrong people. Your choice. Sorry, shaming doesn't work anymore. Feminists need to find a new gimmick, starting with actually offering unbiased reasoning and analysis backing the views they have foisted on us for 40-60 years instead of contortions of the facts and outright lies.
dasein Posted November 11, 2011 Posted November 11, 2011 Yes I have talked to them. Their reasons for leaving their careers run the gamut. In only one case did any of them have a husband who was willing to stay home with the kids for any period... even when she was willing to be the breadwinner and hand over the paycheck. Speaking to the topic of social pressure that has risen in this thread, amusing to see how they demand equal treatment as rational adults out of one side of their mouths, and then claim to be the equivalent of defenseless children unable to resist some imaginary overpowering social pressure out of the other. Women have children because they want to, and a vast majority who want to stay home and raise those children do so because they want to. Making those choices forecloses other options. That's the plain reality. Somehow the issue never turns on human choices and being responsible or accountable for those choices though, but rather on always being the victim, of men, of social pressure, of whatever they can shift blame to. Of course that men are to blame for both the unequal treatment and simultaneously not protecting them enough is a given. In fact, that men are to blame for everything bad in a woman's life runs all through the web of feminist lies. That men are to blame for everything is a lie. Real women don't lie.
NXS Posted November 11, 2011 Posted November 11, 2011 Yes I have talked to them. Their reasons for leaving their careers run the gamut. Well at least that's more honest than the other poster who thinks the evil patriarchy are forcing or coercing women to be household slaves for their "lord and master". In only one case did any of them have a husband who was willing to stay home with the kids for any period... even when she was willing to be the breadwinner and hand over the paycheck. I know of three cases where they suggested the husband stay home. Their husbands rejected that offer. So they negotiated nannies or chose not to have children at all. Well that's just your own personal experience among friends, hardly reflective of society or perhaps you're talking about men who already have a career. Yes my previous post was also personal experience but I've worked in a few different departments and seen it over a wide range of employees. I think you'll find that in countries where men are given equal access to paternity leave they do take it. The truth is in this country, companies give lip service to anyone who wants to have a balanced family and work life. Men or women. It isn't just men who are expected to be pack mules. Sure, when companies are hurting for employees, they offer family friendly policies. With the economy in the tank, those benefits are now being withdrawn. As the other thread about the DINK lifestyle attests too.... many men and women are choosing to forgo having kids at all for that reason. I live in Western Europe so it's a bit different here. Women get up to 6 months maternity leave, either paid or on social assistance, depending on the country. Men can get up to 6 weeks, again depending on the country.
NXS Posted November 11, 2011 Posted November 11, 2011 The lies of feminism were unfortunately accepted as facts years ago without question. Men just blindly accepted that women were in fact treated unequally and then allowed the biggest raw power grab in the 20th century to go unchallenged. That's right "unchallenged," that there ever was a "fight for women's rights" is another big, convenient lie. Politicians loved it because they found women to be a pliant constituency, easy to manipulate. The initial pack of lies has spiraled into a whole gigantic web of lies over 40-60 years that has wreaked untold damage in our society. Thankfully people are waking up to the lies and rebelling against them. Yep the "battle of the sexes" was another big lie, there was no battle, men just gave women whatever they wanted in order to keep the peace. It hasn't worked, feminists have just taken it as a sign to come up with ever more absurd demands whilst labelling men as pigs/abusers/rapists/creeps/misogynists/control-freaks..... There's a whole new generation of young men who have had enough of it. They see the rhetoric from feminists and compare it to their reality and it just doesn't fit, and a lot of Western women are now insufferable. In Japan there's the "Herbivores", a large percentage of young men who've given up on dating and marriage. They don't see the point of being a pack-mule for some entitled woman who'll just treat them like crap. So they just stay inside and play video games and have virtual sex. In Germany there's clubs men can go to where they just pay in for the weekend, they get fed, go to the gymn and have sex with prostitutes. So a lot of men don't see the point in having a girlfriend or getting married. The birth rate has plummeted and a lot of women now in there 40s have never had children. There's a drastic shift in men's attitudes across the world and women have nobody to blame but themselves. They've belittled men and treated them like crap for so long that growing numbers of men are no longer willing to just accept it. Already we see articles from women about "where are all the good men gone?". Well the "good men" have had enough and no longer feel they have a stake in society. So maybe the feminists should "man up" and show they can take over the running.
ThsAmericanLife Posted November 11, 2011 Posted November 11, 2011 Speaking to the topic of social pressure that has risen in this thread, amusing to see how they demand equal treatment as rational adults out of one side of their mouths, and then claim to be the equivalent of defenseless children unable to resist some imaginary overpowering social pressure out of the other. Women have children because they want to, and a vast majority who want to stay home and raise those children do so because they want to. Making those choices forecloses other options. That's the plain reality. Somehow the issue never turns on human choices and being responsible or accountable for those choices though, but rather on always being the victim, of men, of social pressure, of whatever they can shift blame to. Of course that men are to blame for both the unequal treatment and simultaneously not protecting them enough is a given. In fact, that men are to blame for everything bad in a woman's life runs all through the web of feminist lies. That men are to blame for everything is a lie. Real women don't lie. You must be talking about someone else.... regarding making excuses, etc. My observation is that you'd prefer to deny the truth of the statements you claim are 'lying' because you don't like how some women deal with that truth... Same as some groups of people have been legitimately discriminated against make different choices in their lives as well. Some make excuses and give up. Some plow through and find alternate paths to get to their goals. Doesn't mean the hurdles don't exist. I still think you spend waaaaay too much time focused on something that really has very little effect on you in the big scheme of things. It seems your time would be better spent (no offense) getting up to speed on the doings of your local, state, and national politicians if you are so pissed about the world and who or who doesn't have special benefits. That's what I did when I started seeing trends I didn't like. On the other hand... never mind. I'd much rather see people with your opinions flailing hopelessly on a message board rather than cancelling my vote.
dasein Posted November 11, 2011 Posted November 11, 2011 In Japan there's the "Herbivores". In Germany there's clubs This is very interesting, I had no idea of these phenomena in Japan and Germany, thought it was more U.S., Brit and Aussie only. In the U.S. video seems to be a large part of it, porn and gaming. Men are dropping out of a rigged carnival game. The marriage rate here has declined so rapidly that marriage is predicted to be socially irrelevant and dead as an institution by 2040. I am sure women choosing not to marry impacts this statistic also, not saying it's all men, but it is a big chunk of it. I want to take this chance to say I don't blame feminism for every problem I've ever had in my life. I also believe that without men lazily giving in, the problem could never have exacerbated to current levels. In a sense we are all to blame. We are all in life together, and hopefully the big lesson to be learned from the failed feminist experiment is that no "isms" should be created that polarize people against each other in the future. For every challenge women have experienced as a gender, men have experienced similarly. Talking about the "white guy in the castle on a hill" is a convenient distraction. No political action or special interest should be motivated by creating a victimization mentality in its constituents. That is ironically how every oppressive regime in history has begun, inculcating victimization that excuses heinous crimes against the supposed victimizers. This also goes for people decrying feminists. The point we need to get to is not just saying the other person is to blame and taking responsibility and accountability internally as well as assigning it externally.
doushenka Posted November 11, 2011 Posted November 11, 2011 "Go to Arlington Cemetery and tell people putting flowers on graves that. Go to Stirling, go to the Bastille, to Bastogne . . . Tell anyone who had family die in any war that. Go stand on the beach at Normandy and say that." dasein, I would say that comparing the honorable service of a veteran to what happened in the gulags and at Dachau is at least as heinous as what Metis said about Holocaust deniers. I am the daughter of a veteran, who is the son and the son-in-law of veterans. I have cousins, both male and female, serving right now. Ask them if they view their service as oppression. My dad cried at the Vietnam Wall, but never in a million years would he cheapen his comrades' deaths the way you did. Well done. Oh, and have a good Remembrance Day.
dasein Posted November 11, 2011 Posted November 11, 2011 You must be talking about someone else.... regarding making excuses, etc. Who knows, maybe so. I'm still pissed at you for your holocaust denial comment. But on the chance you may not be aware. That's not cute or clever. In many countries, holocaust denial is a very serious accusation, in some major countries it is a felony with accompanying prison terms. In those same countries, falsely accusing someone of being a holocaust denier is a slanderous crime with prison terms. So regardless of your intent, going around insinuating or relating someone's opinion to a holocaust denier is not OK. It is unnecessary and doesn't help your argument either. It isn't a funny joke or just a harmless comment. People with German or Jewish heritage will be especially sensitive to this kind of thing. I have both in my family tree. Feminism is a political doctrine, just like Republicans and Democrats. Stating that feminism is a pack of lies is no different than stating that the democratic or republican platform is a pack of lies. Agree or disagree, up to you.
Disillusioned Posted November 11, 2011 Posted November 11, 2011 This is a spinoff of musemaj11's topic. So while there's this list of what "real men" do, what should be the list of what "real women" should be like? I invite men and women to offer up to this. Just be realistic though. Fire away... Real women are made of flesh and blood. FAKE women are made of plastic, rubber, or (for the super-cheap) pressed sawdust. There now, that wasn't such a brain-buster, was it?
dasein Posted November 11, 2011 Posted November 11, 2011 dasein, I would say that comparing the honorable service of a veteran to what happened in the gulags and at Dachau is at least as heinous as what Metis said about Holocaust deniers. Fail. It is a gross contortion of my words that I equate military service to one's country to oppression. Gross and dishonest, but par for the course. My point is and was in that post that real oppression in the world costs lives whether those lives are spent as direct victims of the oppressors or in the act of stopping and resisting the oppressive power. Both types of lives lost are indeed victims of oppression, together with all those who lose loved ones in fighting oppression. Most of those lives lost of the latter type happen to be male. I shouldn't even have to type that out, this place never ceases to amaze me.
thatone Posted November 11, 2011 Posted November 11, 2011 You must be talking about someone else.... regarding making excuses, etc. My observation is that you'd prefer to deny the truth of the statements you claim are 'lying' because you don't like how some women deal with that truth... Same as some groups of people have been legitimately discriminated against make different choices in their lives as well. Some make excuses and give up. Some plow through and find alternate paths to get to their goals. Doesn't mean the hurdles don't exist. I still think you spend waaaaay too much time focused on something that really has very little effect on you in the big scheme of things. It seems your time would be better spent (no offense) getting up to speed on the doings of your local, state, and national politicians if you are so pissed about the world and who or who doesn't have special benefits. That's what I did when I started seeing trends I didn't like. On the other hand... never mind. I'd much rather see people with your opinions flailing hopelessly on a message board rather than cancelling my vote. i wish you luck with that but luck is what you'll probably need. from experience, you can get a whole pocket full of local politicians for a little bit of money, and make a tidy profit if you have good ideas in mind. and the best part is it isn't even illegal, as long as the money is above the table and reported properly. voting doesn't get anything. it's a fact of elected governments that elections don't mean all that much. money makes the world go round. and when you think about it, that's preferable to any other means we could come up with to limit the effect of political influence from for-profit interests. if it were illegal to buy politicians, only criminals would have influence, and we would arguably be worse off. as i said before the solution i come to is there is no solution. i don't have the answers, i just live here. if it gets too bad, i'll just leave. the cayman islands are always happy to have you if you got a few bucks to spread around.
Mme. Chaucer Posted November 12, 2011 Posted November 12, 2011 There's a drastic shift in men's attitudes across the world and women have nobody to blame but themselves. I'm sorry. Women are not to "blame" for the attitudes of men. I also don't hold men to "blame" for attitudes of women. A woman who wants to sit around whining and complaining about how messed up her life is because of the entire gender of males, I think she is just as pathetic as I think the guys who blubber about their plight being the responsibility of mean bad wimminz. If some guys are happier in clubs with prostitutes or jerking off in front of their computer screens than dealing with relationships with their female peers in real life, that is just fine with me. They don't sound like they'd be very rewarding companions for live people whom they weren't paying to hang out with and f**k them. Believe it or not, there are lots of men who like women; who are fine with women having gained all the rights men have had. Lots of us are able to accept or reject other folks based upon their own merits. Also, it's possible to have a very interesting, honest and informative debate or conversation about gender roles and relations. It happens all the time. But not if one person involved is ready and willing to rewrite history and shut the other person down with claims of "straw man," "placard waving," etc. I think people who "discuss" and argue like that are wise to stay by themselves in front of their computer screen.
Mme. Chaucer Posted November 12, 2011 Posted November 12, 2011 In Japan there's the "Herbivores", a large percentage of young men who've given up on dating and marriage. They don't see the point of being a pack-mule for some entitled woman who'll just treat them like crap. So they just stay inside and play video games and have virtual sex. Sorry, but the "herbivore" boys in Japan are not a reaction to your notion of feminism, or against "entitled" women. It's wrong for you to try to appropriate this cultural phenomenon, which you obviously don't understand, to grind your sad man axe upon. These boys are responding to many aspects of Japanese culture, not the least of which are the roles their "businessman" fathers played in their lives. Yes, the changing roles of women are at play as well. It's not necessarily a negative thing. There are interesting articles about them on the Internet if anyone would like to learn more. Here's a link to one: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=120696816
dasein Posted November 12, 2011 Posted November 12, 2011 But not if one person involved is ready and willing to rewrite history and shut the other person down with claims of "straw man," "placard waving," etc. I think people who "discuss" and argue like that are wise to stay by themselves in front of their computer screen. The rewriting of history took place decades ago, and continues. It's naive to believe that history is not distorted to achieve political ends. It has always been and will continue to be. Propaganda is a powerful force. St. Petersburg - Petrograd - Leningrad - St. Petersburg, and so it goes. A disturbing thing about feminism is that the lies are so transparent, a mere fingernail scratch reveals them to be the lies they are. Once someone sees the truth, it's embarrassing what gullible dupes feminism has made of us. Is the recipe for mass deceit really that simple? Just take an undeniably noble motive such as "equal treatment under the law for all," and then hide a whole slew of political power grabbing lies under that kernel of truth? Is THAT all it takes to fool us? Doesn't say much for our rational capacity as a culture.
fortyninethousand322 Posted November 12, 2011 Posted November 12, 2011 Real women don't care if a man is inexperienced (sexually and with relationships), they'll be perfectly happy to work with a good man, even if there are a few early bumps on the road.
Mme. Chaucer Posted November 12, 2011 Posted November 12, 2011 Oh, yes they are. If not, what else could explain for this attitude change? A kangaroo? So it's never the woman's fault, right? Now, I'm starting to think you're a jokester. He has to pay for part of your rent, pay for some of your groceries, or he has to take you to expensive dinners or concerts or trips out of the country together where everything costs a fortune. So he's paying little by little every month. Or lots by lots if he's a rich guy who has a girlfriend. If he doesn't pay, he doesn't get in your pants. Simple as that. Really? I'm married. My husband doesn't pay for part of MY rent, or some of MY groceries. He contributes to the expenses of the life we live. In my family, I contribute more income than my husband does. He still does contribute, though. So this makes me a kind of prostitute? I would like to not be a prostitute in my relationship with my husband. What do you advise? Should I stop accepting any financial contributions from him? Or stop him from "getting in my pants"? I'm so confused!
dasein Posted November 12, 2011 Posted November 12, 2011 So where are all these good women standing by our side to fight against the dark forces that loom all around us? They are there but silent, and beginning to speak out more and more. Some are here on this forum. You see IRL, the opposition is bullied into silence, even shouted down by pawns of the massive government-corporate-consumer complex that depends on manipulating female purchasing power to perpetuate itself. How many men do you know who need a gigantic house full of expensive trinkets and custom furnishings? Women are the primary target of marketing manipulation, so getting as much wealth into female hands via transfer programs, child support, etc. is the chief aim of the powers that be. The entire housing bubble and recession are the result of manipulating consumer purchasing power, mostly controlled by women, towards unsustainable levels of consumption, to believe this unsustainable standard of consumption and wealth is "necessary" for happiness, safety, or being a good parent. A $1000 stroller is no better than a $150 one. $100 a yard carpet is not $90 better than $10 a yard carpet. No one needs $150 tennis shoes. No family needs 5000 sq ft. of living space for happiness. No child needs a 15k per year preschool to grow up healthy and happy. Could go on and on with examples, but the true power in our society, the government-marketing consumption complex, depends on manipulating female purchasing power to obtain its ends, wealth for the already wealthy shareholders. Hence feminism. Like all advertising, get purchasing power to think something is "wrong" or "lacking" to encourage wasteful consumption. See how this dovetails so well with convincing women they are victims? "Bad men threaten your children... buy this $10,000 alarm system instead of a cheap deadbolt lock." Feminism dupes women as much as it does men. If women will only catch on to how thoroughly they and their purchasing power are being manipulated, we can all move towards better times. Speak out against that system and reap scorn at the least as a crackpot, excoriation or even government scrutiny as "dangerous" at the most. The internet changes all that, but the net is still very young. The voices of rationality are forming up, and there are many female voices among them. We are all in this together.
ThsAmericanLife Posted November 12, 2011 Posted November 12, 2011 (edited) i wish you luck with that but luck is what you'll probably need. from experience, you can get a whole pocket full of local politicians for a little bit of money, and make a tidy profit if you have good ideas in mind. and the best part is it isn't even illegal, as long as the money is above the table and reported properly. voting doesn't get anything. it's a fact of elected governments that elections don't mean all that much. money makes the world go round. and when you think about it, that's preferable to any other means we could come up with to limit the effect of political influence from for-profit interests. if it were illegal to buy politicians, only criminals would have influence, and we would arguably be worse off. as i said before the solution i come to is there is no solution. i don't have the answers, i just live here. if it gets too bad, i'll just leave. the cayman islands are always happy to have you if you got a few bucks to spread around. I guess you believe you can buy your friends too?? Hmm... I'm sorry to hear you have such a cynical view of the world. Although, we are all products of our environment to some extent. Edited November 12, 2011 by ThsAmericanLife
ThsAmericanLife Posted November 12, 2011 Posted November 12, 2011 Who knows, maybe so. I'm still pissed at you for your holocaust denial comment. But on the chance you may not be aware. That's not cute or clever. In many countries, holocaust denial is a very serious accusation, in some major countries it is a felony with accompanying prison terms. In those same countries, falsely accusing someone of being a holocaust denier is a slanderous crime with prison terms. So regardless of your intent, going around insinuating or relating someone's opinion to a holocaust denier is not OK. It is unnecessary and doesn't help your argument either. It isn't a funny joke or just a harmless comment. People with German or Jewish heritage will be especially sensitive to this kind of thing. I have both in my family tree. Feminism is a political doctrine, just like Republicans and Democrats. Stating that feminism is a pack of lies is no different than stating that the democratic or republican platform is a pack of lies. Agree or disagree, up to you. The point is Dasein... you sound silly at best and nuts at worst with some of your posts... hence the comparison to the other 'outliers' I listed who also deny proof of discrimination and have other bizarre beliefs that don't line up with objective proof. Except for the folks who believe an alien is being kept in Area 51. I kinda thought that was funny. Anyway... If you don't like how some groups of people have reacted to legitimate discrimination, then fine. You'll get alot of support from both men and women who don't like folks who make up excuses to justify their life choices..... that is a whole lot different than claiming discrimination doesn't exist and never has. You really need to lighten up, buddy. You seemed to like it when women grow a sense of humor. Think you might try one on for size? Sense of humor that is?
dasein Posted November 12, 2011 Posted November 12, 2011 The point is Dasein... you sound silly at best and nuts at worst with some of your posts.. Here we have shaming, a violation of the community guidelines, and a giant rationalization all rolled into one. I did you the courtesy of explaining why accusing or insinuating holocaust denial was not good posting form, not funny. Most any rational person, the average man for instance, would have just let it drop there. Your response though? "Your posts are silly and nuts, go get a sense of humor." You know what that sounds like? Beavis and Butthead. Par for the course here on LS, just more privileged female pronouncements in a sea of them.
thatone Posted November 12, 2011 Posted November 12, 2011 I guess you believe you can buy your friends too?? Hmm... I'm sorry to hear you have such a cynical view of the world. Although, we are all products of our environment to some extent. i'll come visit in northern europe when you get there . you can't buy your friends, but you can pick them. you can even pick your family, in that you just don't associate with the ones who you dislike. actually i'm somewhat enjoying the politics back home as long as the ex's family are losing elections. the brother just lost one and her father will be losing another one in a couple of years. i don't really enjoy anyone winning, but i do take a lot of pleasure in certain people losing, whether they be local or national. They are there but silent, and beginning to speak out more and more. Some are here on this forum. You see IRL, the opposition is bullied into silence, even shouted down by pawns of the massive government-corporate-consumer complex that depends on manipulating female purchasing power to perpetuate itself. How many men do you know who need a gigantic house full of expensive trinkets and custom furnishings? Women are the primary target of marketing manipulation, so getting as much wealth into female hands via transfer programs, child support, etc. is the chief aim of the powers that be. The entire housing bubble and recession are the result of manipulating consumer purchasing power, mostly controlled by women, towards unsustainable levels of consumption, to believe this unsustainable standard of consumption and wealth is "necessary" for happiness, safety, or being a good parent. A $1000 stroller is no better than a $150 one. $100 a yard carpet is not $90 better than $10 a yard carpet. No one needs $150 tennis shoes. No family needs 5000 sq ft. of living space for happiness. No child needs a 15k per year preschool to grow up healthy and happy. Could go on and on with examples, but the true power in our society, the government-marketing consumption complex, depends on manipulating female purchasing power to obtain its ends, wealth for the already wealthy shareholders. Hence feminism. Like all advertising, get purchasing power to think something is "wrong" or "lacking" to encourage wasteful consumption. See how this dovetails so well with convincing women they are victims? "Bad men threaten your children... buy this $10,000 alarm system instead of a cheap deadbolt lock." Feminism dupes women as much as it does men. If women will only catch on to how thoroughly they and their purchasing power are being manipulated, we can all move towards better times. Speak out against that system and reap scorn at the least as a crackpot, excoriation or even government scrutiny as "dangerous" at the most. The internet changes all that, but the net is still very young. The voices of rationality are forming up, and there are many female voices among them. We are all in this together. i know one, me. not that i spend that money at the mall or at new furniture stores, mind you. i spend it on local skilled tradesmen. that's what's wrong. it's not that people spend their money on material things, people always did that. it's that they spend it on cheap corporate made junk. the consumer society we have is aimed at women since women do most of the shopping but men aren't hapless victims, they sign up for it just as women do. just as women buy thousand dollar strollers, men buy corvettes and mustangs and fiberglass boats and 20 thousand dollar motorcycles, all of which are pitiful excuses for modern machines compared to comparable things that were made decades ago. the town i was born in is a perfect example. it used to have a thriving local business community. now it has a bunch of fast food joints on the edge of town surrounding wal marts and targets, and they were convinced that the solution to their problems was being the site of a new prison, because more jobs would help the ailing older districts. there you have it. americans double down on bad ideas and stupid. and when their solution to the mess they've created is to get rid of anyone who questions the path they're on and give more control to corporate interests, well, i can't convince them. i'll just leave them to it when they run out of places that are worth living in.
Disenchantedly Yours Posted November 12, 2011 Posted November 12, 2011 Real women don't care if a man is inexperienced (sexually and with relationships), they'll be perfectly happy to work with a good man, even if there are a few early bumps on the road. I totally agree with that.
NXS Posted November 12, 2011 Posted November 12, 2011 I'm sorry. Women are not to "blame" for the attitudes of men. I also don't hold men to "blame" for attitudes of women. That's true to a point, the attitudes of men are molded by society which is overwhelmingly misandric in the west. Society is engineered by politicians, bankers and other vested interests for their benefit. Mostly other men. However they have been given women advantages over men in a classic divide and rule strategy and women have jumped on these free handouts. The end result has been a large number of disenfranchised men who feel they've no stake in society and treated as second class citizens. A woman who wants to sit around whining and complaining about how messed up her life is because of the entire gender of males, I think she is just as pathetic as I think the guys who blubber about their plight being the responsibility of mean bad wimminz. Well why didn't you respond to the earlier posts on this thread from the other women acting like this? Don't you have anything to say to them or do you just react when men post here on the subject? Also, it's possible to have a very interesting, honest and informative debate or conversation about gender roles and relations. It happens all the time. But not if one person involved is ready and willing to rewrite history and shut the other person down with claims of "straw man," "placard waving," etc. I think people who "discuss" and argue like that are wise to stay by themselves in front of their computer screen. It's a bit hypocritical to expect an interesting, honest and informative debate when you have failed to counter the screeching feminists on here and have indulged in ad hominen attacks yourself.
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