Half or full squat, which is better for me

[StandingO]

Today I was told by a professional not to go below or parallel with squats. That half squats done properly is all I need to do. That it is not a position we use in daily life. She described how it pulls and stretches everything unnecessarily and she made a lot of sense. I have had knee and hip issues before and she thinks this is better for me. My GF who I consider an expert in this area too thinks I can go below parallel if done with the proper form and my knees should be fine. I have done squats before but not on a regular basis cause I usually workout at home. My knees seem to handle them fine but I am not sure I should go so low like my GF does. I should strengthen my legs and admit they have never been the same since my injuries. I was also told that the leg extension and leg curl machines are no good for the joints too.

[silvermane187]

Half squats are terrible for your knees. Go down as far as you can.

 

Download and read the squat section of this book. http://www.mediafire.com/?n5mmiedn5km

 

Any squat that is not deep is a partial squat, and partial squats stress the knee and the quadriceps without stressing the glutes, the adductors, and the hamstrings. The hamstrings, groin muscles, and glutes perform their function in the squat when the hips are stretched to the point of full flexion, where they get tight — the deep squat position (fig. 2-3). The hamstring muscles, attached to the tibia and to the ischial tuberosity of the pelvis, and the adductors, attached between the medial femur and various points on the medial pelvis, reach a full stretch at the very bottom of the squat, where the pelvis tilts forward with the torso, stretching the ends of the muscles apart

 

In a partial squat, which fails to provide a full stretch for the hamstrings, most of the force against the tibia is upward and forward, from the quadriceps and their attachment to the front of the tibia below the knee. This produces an anterior shear, a forward-directed sliding force, on the knee, with the tibia being pulled forward from the patellar tendon and without a balancing pull from the opposing hamstrings. This shearing force — and the resulting unbalanced strain on the prepatellar area — may be the biggest problem with partial squats. Many spectacular doses of tendinitis have been produced this way, with "squats" getting the blame.

Edited November 6, 2011 by silvermane187

[tman666]

A "professional", eh?

 

Hmmmm...

 

Ask yourself this question: what athlete, bodybuilder, powerlifter, etc. uses half squats exclusively over full squats? The answer is: none of them.

 

Everything I've ever heard and seen (and experienced for myself) are that squats are best done full range of motion. Personally, I squat to parallel or just below parallel when going heavy. Full range of motion (ass to grass) is safe as well IF you've trained for it and have the form down tight.

 

An example would be Olympic lifters and the "catch" portions of both the clean/jerk and snatch being done at a full range squat. However, Olympic lifters also practice the technique day in an day out for many years under strict coaching. In my opinion, you're better off going LIGHT for full range of motion squats, focusing on form, mobility and speed. For heavy squats, I would focus on sitting back in the hole at or just below parallel.

 

There are a lot of differing philosophies out there regarding squat depth, but almost EVERYONE (whether they be a bodybuilder, powerlifter, oly. lifter) agrees that you need to go to at least parallel for knee health and strength/growth potential.

[mike111]

Today I was told by a professional not to go below or parallel with squats. That half squats done properly is all I need to do. That it is not a position we use in daily life. She described how it pulls and stretches everything unnecessarily and she made a lot of sense. I have had knee and hip issues before and she thinks this is better for me. My GF who I consider an expert in this area too thinks I can go below parallel if done with the proper form and my knees should be fine. I have done squats before but not on a regular basis cause I usually workout at home. My knees seem to handle them fine but I am not sure I should go so low like my GF does. I should strengthen my legs and admit they have never been the same since my injuries. I was also told that the leg extension and leg curl machines are no good for the joints too.

 

 

I would try the full squats, but just go light at first and see how you feel later. Same with the leg machines.

[tman666]

I also was going to post (but forgot) about box squats. Box squats are a great way to train the squat because (if done properly), you develop glute and hamstring strength at the bottom portion of the lift (the "hole"), which is where most people's form breaks down - chest caves forward, weight shifts to toes, knees cave in, etc.

 

Start with a box height that allows you to sit back to parallel, or just *slightly* above. Remember to sit back into the squat, break the motion with your hips (not your knees), and keep your knees out and tracking over your feet. Start very light and focus on form. With squatting, form is just about everything. Remember to keep your upper body upright (chest out, upper back TIGHT, grip the bar like a motherf**ker, head straight or slightly up, weight back on heels).

 

Keep the reps low so that your form doesn't break down over the course of a set. Train the hell out of your hamstrings and glutes (glute/ham raises, RDL's, good mornings, etc. can help with this).

 

Remember that form is key with all of this. Start light, and work up slowly. If you can't do the lift with good form, then don't put more weight on the bar.

[StandingO]

I forgot to mention. Another post on here regarding a hernia problem reminded me. I seem to have a weak area around my former hernia. I was told not to go heavy by my doctor. I sometimes squat with my GF but I tend to over do it cause she got significantly stronger legs then I do and of course I try to do has much as i can. Not her fault but mine. I got to be careful and this is one reason this "professional" mentioned half squats. She did imply they were better for my knees too so maybe she does needs to update her training. Would a half squat be easier on the lower abdominal area for someone who has a genetic weakness? The more my top half bends forward when I do a deep squat I do tend to get an uneasy feeling. My GF can keep a very straight back while going deep. Years of training and flexibility I guess while I am much bulkier in my top half from years of poor upper body only training habits so I am not very flexible either. If I do a deep leg press I can feel the strain in the area of concern.

[Star Gazer]

A "professional", eh?

 

Hmmmm...

 

Ask yourself this question: what athlete, bodybuilder, powerlifter, etc. uses half squats exclusively over full squats? The answer is: none of them.

 

Everything I've ever heard and seen (and experienced for myself) are that squats are best done full range of motion. Personally, I squat to parallel or just below parallel when going heavy. Full range of motion (ass to grass) is safe as well IF you've trained for it and have the form down tight.

 

An example would be Olympic lifters and the "catch" portions of both the clean/jerk and snatch being done at a full range squat. However, Olympic lifters also practice the technique day in an day out for many years under strict coaching. In my opinion, you're better off going LIGHT for full range of motion squats, focusing on form, mobility and speed. For heavy squats, I would focus on sitting back in the hole at or just below parallel.

 

There are a lot of differing philosophies out there regarding squat depth, but almost EVERYONE (whether they be a bodybuilder, powerlifter, oly. lifter) agrees that you need to go to at least parallel for knee health and strength/growth potential.

 

I also was going to post (but forgot) about box squats. Box squats are a great way to train the squat because (if done properly), you develop glute and hamstring strength at the bottom portion of the lift (the "hole"), which is where most people's form breaks down - chest caves forward, weight shifts to toes, knees cave in, etc.

 

Start with a box height that allows you to sit back to parallel, or just *slightly* above. Remember to sit back into the squat, break the motion with your hips (not your knees), and keep your knees out and tracking over your feet. Start very light and focus on form. With squatting, form is just about everything. Remember to keep your upper body upright (chest out, upper back TIGHT, grip the bar like a motherf**ker, head straight or slightly up, weight back on heels).

 

Keep the reps low so that your form doesn't break down over the course of a set. Train the hell out of your hamstrings and glutes (glute/ham raises, RDL's, good mornings, etc. can help with this).

 

Remember that form is key with all of this. Start light, and work up slowly. If you can't do the lift with good form, then don't put more weight on the bar.

 

I second these messages.

[tman666]

I forgot to mention. Another post on here regarding a hernia problem reminded me. I seem to have a weak area around my former hernia. I was told not to go heavy by my doctor. I sometimes squat with my GF but I tend to over do it cause she got significantly stronger legs then I do and of course I try to do has much as i can. Not her fault but mine. I got to be careful and this is one reason this "professional" mentioned half squats. She did imply they were better for my knees too so maybe she does needs to update her training. Would a half squat be easier on the lower abdominal area for someone who has a genetic weakness? The more my top half bends forward when I do a deep squat I do tend to get an uneasy feeling. My GF can keep a very straight back while going deep. Years of training and flexibility I guess while I am much bulkier in my top half from years of poor upper body only training habits so I am not very flexible either. If I do a deep leg press I can feel the strain in the area of concern.

 

You'll have to find ways to train around your injury, rather than through your injury. The "no pain, no gain" mentality doesn't apply to injuries. Listen to your body. I personally think that perhaps a good alternative to barbell front or back squats in this case would be a

.

 

Due to the weight being supported by your hands and arms only, you'll likely be forced to go much lighter with a goblet squat. It's also a great movement if you're trying to improve your squat form (like staying upright), as it's a very natural, yet non-technical movement. Since your main worry will be not re-opening that hernia, you may want to stick to lighter weight and higher reps. If you do enough volume (reps), you'll still gain some size. To improve your maximal strength and power, you'll have to lift heavy weights, but that can come later after your stabilizing muscles are better trained.

 

I would also get a second opinion from a physical therapist on how to work around the hernia. I'm not a professional, but I am not seeing how doing half squats would be any more or less worse for your hernia than doing full squats.

 

Again, based on what you've described, I would venture that your posterior chain is weak in comparison to your quads (most people are quad dominant, by the way, and it can lead to hip/knee problems). Make sure that you're spending plenty of time training your hamstrings, glutes, lower back, and upper back. RDL's, glute-ham raises, kettlebell (or dumbbell) swings, step-ups and rows should be staples of your training.

 

Also keep in mind that there are other ways to train legs besides squats (sled pulls, sprint work, car pushes, lunges, etc.). If you're not a powerlifter or Oly. lifter, than you really don't need to squat...

[StandingO]

Thanks Tman. I had a look at those globlet squats. I will try them, I have done a similiar squat with dumb bells at my side. My body type is something close to my avatar. I am trying to correct somewhat without going krazy. I have been told by some to just tone down the upper body but that is something I am not willing to do at this point in my life. Your advice I like and it reinforces my though process. I think the main thing is to do what is good for my health joints and other rather then get all frustrated and concern with bulking up my legs.

[StandingO]

I remember one physiotherapist that told me to do sudden half squat drops as part of my rehab. This was years ago now. This "professional" is not into weights but more body weight exercises. Maybe this is this old school versus new school thinking I am not sure. I do find the full squats beyond parallel very difficult. I seem to have no power below parallel. My estimated max squat atg is pathetic.

[StandingO]

BTW, I love those goblet squats. I can feel comfortable going near atg and keep my balance. I seem to keep my back straighter. I tried front squats before and could never feel comfortable with them.

[CokAssold]

Because that is so urgent, here are the practical things in regard to doing this.

[tman666]

BTW, I love those goblet squats. I can feel comfortable going near atg and keep my balance. I seem to keep my back straighter. I tried front squats before and could never feel comfortable with them.

 

Glad you like them!

 

Another movement you might want to try is called a

. These can be great for developing explosiveness, especially if you combine them with a

.

 

Front squats are definitely a tough exercise. It's one of those things that requires a lot of practice (and pain tolerance) to get right. The biggest limiting factor with a front squat is generally your ability to keep your upper back from rounding. Forcing your elbows upwards during the whole movement will help you keep your upper back tight and flat.

[StandingO]

Great Tman. I will try these lumber jack squats too. My GF tried to get me to do those front squats. I hate them with a passion. Its like you said lots of practice over time so its no wonder she can do them easily but she is a squat junkie lol. I think I will stick with the goblet squat with higher reps and give these lumberjacks a try. I know from experience if I hate an exercise I won't do it.

[jimtimuk]

full squat all the way, and yes leg extensions and leg press are bad for the knees. read this article about full vs half squat. http://www.greatweightlifting.com/full-squat-vs-half-squat

 

I have a lower back injury and sometimes my back tingles a little from back squats, especially when i go heavy. as long as you focus on driving up through your hips and keeping your elbows back, with back slghtly arched will save your knees.

 

hope this helps