the troubling number of cynical, bitter, sexually inexperienced men on this forum

[Mrlonelyone]

Sumdude.

 

Inspite of what some women here would tell you a woman acting attracted to you is a woman acting attracted to you.

 

These things are not conciously controlled flirting just happens. It's part of our evolved mating behavior...just like breathing. Taramere is the most correct of them in that a woman who is taken may simply be less inhibited; that does not change the fact that flirting is what it is.

 

 

Take it as a sign that you are not as un attractive as you think you are. Take it as a sign that on at least that most basic animal level your not undoable. Your not the elephant man.

 

 

You have gotten two kinds of advice today.

 

1.) Advice that will get women to like you as a friend then sex someone else.

 

2.) Advice that will get women to have sex with you and like you as a boyfriend.

 

Which one of those options do you want right now?

[somedude81]

Here's the thing about that situation dude. As many will tell you women with LTR's and even married women are not averse to fooling around with men they aren't married to. (Yes yes ditto for married and LTR'd men).

 

Why? Remember what I said about our long term evolutionary past. A certain degree of prolificness is in the DNA of every creature that has two sexes.

 

So their saying they have a BF or even husband... may not be shutting you down. It may mean they want you to know that they might fool around with you, but beyond that....

I really don't like the idea of trying to get a girl to cheat to get her to go out with me.

 

Though that may be the only option as it seems that every desirable girl is already taken. And even the more undesirable girls are taken as well. Then there are the girls who take themselves out of the dating game entirely because they are happy being single.

 

Even then, how do I convince a woman that I'm better than her boyfriend?

 

I think it's very likely that there is more than one woman in your life right now who would date you seriously if you made the move. From what you have said, more than one probably wants to do you at least a little. So Cheer up it could be worse. You don't look like this do you?

 

http://www.doctorsecrets.com/images/Joseph_Carey_Merrick.png

If that's the case, I sure as hell would like to know who. I don't have the strength to ask out everybody till I find her, and then I heard that a woman's interest in you would go down if you don't ask her out first.

You said it in the context of responding to a post about how you might be able to get DATES, not SEX. So, along with your posting history in general, I think it points to your preoccupation with sex. .

It's been a very long time since I've been able to get a date. The last real date I had with a woman was June 2010. Since then all I've manged to do is hang out with girls who friendzoned me.

 

 

Certainly it's a normal need and desire. It's the "gypped" part that's the problem.

 

I get the idea that examples like this are completely wasted on you, but here's one anyway:

 

I have a friend who is relatively young and who is "managing" terminal cancer. She is going to die from it. She is not going to have many, many of her "natural human needs and desires" met. But, she is not feeling "gypped." That's why she has a good quality of life, in general.

I have every right to feel cheated. So does your friend. Whether she chooses to or not is up to her.

 

Well, I don't agree with that. And have not lived like that, either.

What do you mean?

 

Have you gone longer than six months without sex when you had the desire for it?

They're probably more relaxed, friendly and approachable precisely because they have boyfriends. If you're happily in a relationship, then it's easy to think that because you've mentally detached yourself from "the market" other people don't see you as being on it.

That's not logical at all.

 

Don't they think that by being very friendly with other men it might start to give those men ideas?

 

Also, why are single women more guarded? Don't they want men to be interested?

 

What's your body confidence like around women? Let's say you went along to something like a dance class. I don't mean ballet...I'm thinking in terms of ceroc or any other Latin American style dancing where you're up close, holding and dancing with a woman. Would you tend to be hesitant about the way you held a woman, or would you grab her quite firmly and confidently?

I've been doing Salsa and ballroom dance for two years. I have no problem at all holding a woman close in that type of situation.

 

Though I admit that when I'm not on the dance floor, I'm more hands off.

 

The primary reason why I even take a dance class, is because it's the only time in my life where I'm allowed to touch women.

The physical presence you have around a woman is hugely important. That's not about being tall; it's aout projecting confidence and energy in your movements. Being confident in the way you touch women (when you touch them).

How do I translate that into real life where I can't just grab, spin and dip girls?

[oaks]

Why? Remember what I said about our long term evolutionary past. A certain degree of prolificness is in the DNA of every creature that has two sexes.

 

Oh, please. We are more than a biological imperative cause by the heritage of our DNA. Well, I am.

[dasein]

I don't know where you get this lack of empathy thing.

 

I know exactly where he gets it. There is an entrenched "scorched earth" defensiveness among women here about admitting that general female behavior in modern culture contributes to any portion of the social problems these guys have at all. Every single one of these guys is openly willing to admit that they share responsibility for their attitudes and results. None of them blame it all on women, or even most of it, that's a stale straw man oft repeated here.

 

But truth is, as Sanman spoke to, these guys don't just drop out of the sky angry and embittered. Most of them are subject to all sort of female chicanery in their early romantic lives. When they come here and complain about it, though, even given specifics of bad female behavior they experience, they are uniformly told, "It is ALL your fault," "YOU need to do more," "YOU have a bad attitude about women" if not worse. I hardly ever see women posting, "Yep there are lots of bitches out there, I know tons of them." (that's empathy) contrary to everything I hear from women IRL which is often as not GRIPING ABOUT THE EXACT SAME BEHAVIOR THE ANGRY VIRGINS DO, only it's being done to their sons, nephews, and male friends. OTOH, men have no trouble admitting there are lots of bad guys out there, lots of the complaints by the angry male virgins aren't directed at women but other men!

 

I sit around and listen to women go on and on about the crappy things they do to each other, their friends who mistreat men outrageously, cheating, lying, all manner of really shocking behavior, yet things seem to get suddenly different when a MAN makes the complaint or slings dirt at female behavior, dig the foxholes and admit to nothing. THAT'S a lack of empathy. It frustrates men to be told "do more more more" when they have done these things and think why should they be expected to do more when cultural and social expectations, accountability, of the women in their dating pool are less than nil, and they hear that FROM WOMEN in their lives all the time, not just men.

 

Only here in bizarro logic land does the statement "women are partially responsible" equate to "you just want to blame everything on women!" That IMO is also a big part of the thread problem.

[Taramere]

Instead, please consider Taramere's very friendly and fun sounding suggestion. Who knows where it could lead.

 

One thing I really get from you - you sound like you are depressed, and I bet it's not all due to your women troubles. More physical stuff - especially if it gets you involved and even physically close to girls - can only help that.

 

I keep meaning to go back to it, as it's a lot of fun. Here's a video of a class for somedude to take a look at.

 

 

You get absolutely all kinds of people going to it, and I think a dance like that is a really positive way for men and women to engage with eachother. It's tactile and has some sexy moves, but it's not that OTT grindy stuff people do in clubs.

 

I actually think that dance of the old-fashioned "tactile, man leading" variety is one of the things that's missing from life. When I went a while back, that really did strike me. I think it's a very natural and right way for men and women to interact with eachother....and it's also very fast and easy way of figuring out who you have chemistry with. The better a man gets at dancing, the more women he's going to be able to create that chemistry with, I'm sure.

 

Damn...I'm going to take my own advice and get back onto that dance floor.

[somedude81]

I hope you have the clarity to know that advice such as this:

 

would harmful to you to consider. You've already been dealing with many rejections.

 

I promise you that it would be a rare occurrence for a girl to tell a guy friend that she's "taken" in order to let him know she wants him sexually. No matter how much more DNA she wants to take onboard. Which is bogus, anyway.

Yeah, I didn't really consider his advice. I just don't see taken women as possibilities.

 

One thing I really get from you - you sound like you are depressed, and I bet it's not all due to your women troubles. More physical stuff - especially if it gets you involved and even physically close to girls - can only help that.

Yes I am depressed. And it's entirely about my women troubles. I've been single for far to long and feel that I'm a failure of a man because I've been unable to attract a woman. I believe that nothing in my life will have any meaning if I'm can't find somebody.

 

Getting a good job, having a nice car, nice house, who cares if just live in it by yourself?

I also said that you can start with a smaller step and smile at whoever you meet. It will make you feel good about yourself when people smile back, which many will do, and it will also make you look like someone who is open to meeting people. Have you tried that?

 

Are you advancing with your training at the gym? If not, get more information or a personal trainer. It seems that the gym is something that really pays off for guys. They get good results really quickly (unlike women).

The smile thing is super basic, so yes I have been.

 

As for the gym, unless I get extremely dedicated and completely change my diet it will be hard for me to get the body I want. And even then nobody knows how much affect that would even have. I'd still be a 5'6 short guy, but look nicer when I'm not wearing a shirt.

Sumdude.

 

Inspite of what some women here would tell you a woman acting attracted to you is a woman acting attracted to you.

 

These things are not conciously controlled flirting just happens. It's part of our evolved mating behavior...just like breathing. Taramere is the most correct of them in that a woman who is taken may simply be less inhibited; that does not change the fact that flirting is what it is.

 

 

Take it as a sign that you are not as un attractive as you think you are. Take it as a sign that on at least that most basic animal level your not undoable. Your not the elephant man.

Odds are they aren't acting attracted to me at all, and I'm just interpreting their friendliness as abnormal. Maybe they're normal and everybody else has been cold to me?

 

You have gotten two kinds of advice today.

 

1.) Advice that will get women to like you as a friend then sex someone else.

 

2.) Advice that will get women to have sex with you and like you as a boyfriend.

 

Which one of those options do you want right now?

I'm sorry, who gave me option 2?

[Mme. Chaucer]

I think the "biological imperative" arguments are as useful here as religious ones would be.

 

Where are the Christian people who can cut and paste stuff from the bible to "prove" that y'all are supposed to remain virginal until married in the eyes of God?

 

Few, if any of us are influenced by self-professed "experts" who cut and paste whatever Google spits up to back up their spurious positions.

 

And most of us who are not Ted Bundy-like are not slaves to our "reptilian brain." Even girls with boyfriends!

 

Real life:

 

A girl telling you she has a boyfriend usually means she is not available and is not interested in you. If she really had a boyfriend and wanted to screw you, she would most likely hide the fact that she had a boyfriend.

 

Also, in case someone has not noticed, somedude has trouble attracting women. The idea that his female friends with boyfriends are ready to sacrifice their relationship for the chance to get some of his DNA is kind of … far fetched. If he were such a sexually compelling individual, he would not be in the pickle he's in.

 

No offense, somedude.

[PlumPrincess]

Also, why are single women more guarded? Don't they want men to be interested?

I think single women are more guarded with guys who come across as less self-confident or might hint at a lack of dating experience. Often, when the woman is not interested, the guy will still not give up. Due to his lack of experience he does not understand the subtle signals she gives him. And then she will be forced to have "the talk" with him or to just disappear or do something else so that he gets the message (= unpleasant things for her). In order to avoid all that, women prefer to only encourage guys whom they're interested in.

[jobaba]

I'd still be a 5'6 short guy, but look nicer when I'm not wearing a shirt.

 

Odds are they aren't acting attracted to me at all, and I'm just interpreting their friendliness as abnormal. Maybe they're normal and everybody else has been cold to me?

 

I'm sorry, who gave me option 2?

 

I work with a bunch of guys who are 5'5", 5'6", and they all have girlfriends.

 

My suggestion to you is to think of some times where you could have done things differently, have been less of a wuss. Because you are a wuss man. That's OK, so am I, but I'm working to change that.

 

For instance, a few years ago, I went out with a bunch of friends and their friends. We ended up at a club and one of the girls with us asked me to dance. I got up and did. After a few minutes, some random guy came along and asked her to dance while I was still dancing with her. I wasn't really into her or anything, but she was OK (later on, when I really got to know her, I had a worse opinion of her, but that's another story). I just walked away and let him dance with her. In retrospect, I should have said something or pushed him away. I let that chance get away. She could have been into me, and if she was my wuss move ended it right there. Claw and scratch for any victory you can. If an undesirable man is a wuss, it's already all over for him.

[dasein]

I think the "biological imperative" arguments are as useful here as religious ones would be.

 

No, arguments grounded in science are based on empirical evidence, sense data, that can be shared objectively with other minds. Religious arguments are conditional on belief, a completely subjective quality, for acceptance.

[Emilia]

I know exactly where he gets it. There is an entrenched "scorched earth" defensiveness among women here about admitting that general female behavior in modern culture contributes to any portion of the social problems these guys have at all. Every single one of these guys is openly willing to admit that they share responsibility for their attitudes and results. None of them blame it all on women, or even most of it, that's a stale straw man oft repeated here.

 

But truth is, as Sanman spoke to, these guys don't just drop out of the sky angry and embittered. Most of them are subject to all sort of female chicanery in their early romantic lives. When they come here and complain about it, though, even given specifics of bad female behavior they experience, they are uniformly told, "It is ALL your fault," "YOU need to do more," "YOU have a bad attitude about women" if not worse. I hardly ever see women posting, "Yep there are lots of bitches out there, I know tons of them." (that's empathy) contrary to everything I hear from women IRL which is often as not GRIPING ABOUT THE EXACT SAME BEHAVIOR THE ANGRY VIRGINS DO, only it's being done to their sons, nephews, and male friends. OTOH, men have no trouble admitting there are lots of bad guys out there, lots of the complaints by the angry male virgins aren't directed at women but other men!

 

I sit around and listen to women go on and on about the crappy things they do to each other, their friends who mistreat men outrageously, cheating, lying, all manner of really shocking behavior, yet things seem to get suddenly different when a MAN makes the complaint or slings dirt at female behavior, dig the foxholes and admit to nothing. THAT'S a lack of empathy. It frustrates men to be told "do more more more" when they have done these things and think why should they be expected to do more when cultural and social expectations, accountability, of the women in their dating pool are less than nil, and they hear that FROM WOMEN in their lives all the time, not just men.

 

Only here in bizarro logic land does the statement "women are partially responsible" equate to "you just want to blame everything on women!" That IMO is also a big part of the thread problem.

 

Some bad behaviour from women annoys me. Even small things like girls going out without any cash because they will expect men buying them drinks all night. Women crucify men for not being tall enough or successful enough and they are embarrassed before their friends if they are not dating someone hot because they are so status conscious.

 

However, none of this is 'cool'. Being a naughty boy, cheating, standing up your date, having sex with your girlfriend's sister is 'cool'. It's ' boys will be boys' territory. No-one slaps a woman's back for being a hellraiser, everyone slaps a guy's.

 

Troublesome women are not celebrated while men are. So you don't hear much about our bad behaviour because it carries too much stigma

[Mrlonelyone]

@Sumdude.

 

That's not what I said at all. I said that taken women still have a sex drive.

 

You need to have enough confidence in your own male intuition to know that a woman is attracted to you when it seems like she is.

 

Attraction is just the first, and most instinctive part of the process.

 

A single woman, married woman, old woman, young woman, pretty woman, ugly woman... ALL show they are attracted in the same unconcious ways.

 

YOU like all other men are programmed by your DNA to know intuitively when they are attracted.

 

I AM NOT SAYING YOU SHOULD BE RECEPTIVE TO BEING A MW'S OM.

 

I am just saying have enough faith in yourself to recognize that women are attracted to you. (There is a huge gap between simple attraction and actually acting on it.)

 

If you go around thinking that every woman who makes eyes at you could only be really friendly then you will NEVER get a woman to be more than a friend.

 

Mating is a competition, don't just surrender yet

 

 

@Taramere

 

I am trying to get sumdude to realize that he has it in him to know when women are acting interested.

 

Subconcious feelings of wanting to "do" someone are lightyears away from acting on it.

 

Don't confuse morality with a emperical approach to problems, which is what I bring.

[Mrlonelyone]

No, arguments grounded in science are based on empirical evidence, sense data, that can be shared objectively with other minds. Religious arguments are conditional on belief, a completely subjective quality, for acceptance.

 

Exactly.

 

This is not a moral issue about which religion has allot to say. This is a issue for how to get guys like somedude to realize they are about as desireable to women as the next guy.

 

Telling him that women who flirt with him could only be being friendly because they have BF's only reinforces his total and utter lack of confidence. (Furthermore it's BS. If that was the case there would not be a board here dedicated to infidelity it happens.)

[somedude81]

@Sumdude.

 

That's not what I said at all. I said that taken women still have a sex drive.

 

You need to have enough confidence in your own male intuition to know that a woman is attracted to you when it seems like she is.

 

Attraction is just the first, and most instinctive part of the process.

 

A single woman, married woman, old woman, young woman, pretty woman, ugly woman... ALL show they are attracted in the same unconcious ways.

 

YOU like all other men are programmed by your DNA to know intuitively when they are attracted.

 

I AM NOT SAYING YOU SHOULD BE RECEPTIVE TO BEING A MW'S OM.

 

I am just saying have enough faith in yourself to recognize that women are attracted to you. (There is a huge gap between simple attraction and actually acting on it.)

 

If you go around thinking that every woman who makes eyes at you could only be really friendly then you will NEVER get a woman to be more than a friend.

 

Mating is a competition, don't just surrender yet

 

I don't have that intution to know when woman is attracted to me.

 

Or if I did, it was beaten out of me a long time ago.

 

And the times when I thought women were attracted to me,

 

"Oh, I'm sorry, I don't like you that way."

[Taramere]

@Taramere

 

I am trying to get sumdude to realize that he has it in him to know when women are acting interested.

 

Subconcious feelings of wanting to "do" someone are lightyears away from acting on it.

 

Don't confuse morality with a emperical approach to problems, which is what I bring.

 

? I'm not sure how this relates to my (ignored) advice about dancing classes. Did you mean to address it to Mme. Chaucer?

[somedude81]

? I'm not sure how this relates to my (ignored) advice about dancing classes. Did you mean to address it to Mme. Chaucer?

Ignored advice?

 

Did you read my previous reply to you?

[dasein]

No-one slaps a woman's back for being a hellraiser, everyone slaps a guy's.

 

Thanks for acknowledging that female behavior is at least a part of these guy's problems but the above is oft repeated BS. It's been decades since "boys will be boys" was accepted as an excuse of bad male behavior in dating if it ever was. Cheating, standing up dates, sleeping with one's SO's friends or family, NONE of those is the providence of men only, and none are applauded by anybody in my experience past teenagers.

 

The opposite is the case. If a man cheats, sleeps with friends, stands up dates, it's his fault. If a woman does those things, amazingly somehow it's usually his fault also for being lacking in some way.

 

"He didn't meet my needs and yelled at me once, so I cheated on him... you go girl, escape the abuser!"

 

"I let him pay for the first three dates, but just wasn't feeling those butterfly feelings I get with my two FWBs, so stopped responding to his calls... you go girl! You don't owe him anything, they should pay for early dates because you are a girl, that's what gentlemen do."

 

"He left me alone with some guy he knows, he should have been more protective of me when I was drunk! You go girl, he just wasn't into you enough, is his friend cute?"

 

A little dramatic, but men are not congratulated for bad behavior, in modern culture it's more likely for women to be, given their amazing powers of rationalizing wrong and accountabillty on their parts into blame on men.

[Mrlonelyone]

@Taramere

 

Whoever said "Well I'm not controlled by my DNA". Then misread my advice about taking women who act attracted at face value.

 

@sumdude

I don't have that intution to know when woman is attracted to me.

 

Or if I did, it was beaten out of me a long time ago.

 

And the times when I thought women were attracted to me,

 

"Oh, I'm sorry, I don't like you that way."

 

Your confusing attraction (subconcious and base instinctive emotions) with actions (concious thoughts).

 

Let me tell you a story.

 

Back in the 60's my father was in college. While in college he met and befriended a young white woman. They were as my father said "just friends". They fooled around one nite and she got pregnant. He wanted to do the right thing and marry her. That woman left school and he never heard from her.

 

 

Sometime in the 80's he found out that woman had his child. That child was now an adult. He's now a GG father due to that child's children.

 

That woman was attracted to him, had sex with him, and raised his children but when he asked to marry the woman... she refused. She did not even want him to see his daughter.

 

Why? Social pressure. He was black, she was white, and that was frowned upon and still illegal in several states.

 

 

What does that have to do with you?

 

Your problem is not just physical. You lack confidence. There's even more to it.

 

I'll bet that in your social surroundings you are low status. Perhaps you don't have that much money. Perhaps you are a racial minority. Perhaps you don't dress in fashion...

 

All of those things can take a woman who is attracted on a basic level and stop her in her tracks.

 

TL;DR: In short, women are attracted to men on a basic level. Attraction does not mean automatic humping. We are more evolved, we have social structures and emotions to take account of. Your problem is a lack of confidence which keeps you from taking oppotunities presented to you. Your other problem may be a lower social status which reduces your number of opportunities.

 

Look at sex as being as necessary to your existence as air, or food. Are you one to let someone else use you as a floatation advice, and drown, or will you fight to get some air?

[johan]

I think the guys who complain on here are full of fear and have entitlement issues. As if they were guaranteed a mate at birth and the universe is going back on its promise. Life is tough. I doubt women find it all that much easier having to be with men. That is at least part of the reason why guys get dumped so much.

 

Complaining about things, to me, is a way to tell the world you can't cope with things. It's a sign of weakness. Acknowledging the world is going to be unfair, and then taking action to set up your life the way you need it to be. If you can't, well that's just another way life isn't fair. Complaining never changed that either.

[Wolf18]

Troublesome women are not celebrated while men are. So you don't hear much about our bad behaviour because it carries too much stigma

 

 

It's the other way around :

 

http://youtu.be/5rkl_oLSKQc

 

Thanks for acknowledging that female behavior is at least a part of these guy's problems but the above is oft repeated BS. It's been decades since "boys will be boys" was accepted as an excuse of bad male behavior in dating if it ever was. Cheating, standing up dates, sleeping with one's SO's friends or family, NONE of those is the providence of men only, and none are applauded by anybody in my experience past teenagers.

 

The opposite is the case. If a man cheats, sleeps with friends, stands up dates, it's his fault. If a woman does those things, amazingly somehow it's usually his fault also for being lacking in some way.

 

"He didn't meet my needs and yelled at me once, so I cheated on him... you go girl, escape the abuser!"

 

"I let him pay for the first three dates, but just wasn't feeling those butterfly feelings I get with my two FWBs, so stopped responding to his calls... you go girl! You don't owe him anything, they should pay for early dates because you are a girl, that's what gentlemen do."

 

"He left me alone with some guy he knows, he should have been more protective of me when I was drunk! You go girl, he just wasn't into you enough, is his friend cute?"

 

A little dramatic, but men are not congratulated for bad behavior, in modern culture it's more likely for women to be, given their amazing powers of rationalizing wrong and accountabillty on their parts into blame on men. [/Quote]

 

So damn true.

[Taramere]

Ignored advice?

 

Did you read my previous reply to you?

 

 

Sorry somedude....I didn't see your response before. I seem to have missed a whole lot of responses in this thread.

 

I've been doing Salsa and ballroom dance for two years. I have no problem at all holding a woman close in that type of situation.

 

Though I admit that when I'm not on the dance floor, I'm more hands off.

 

The primary reason why I even take a dance class, is because it's the only time in my life where I'm allowed to touch women.

 

Is that really the case? That it's only in a dance class that you're permitted to touch women? I mean I have male friends who use touch plenty with me and other women they know. Kissing on the cheek hello, hugging etc. I know I'm not in the US, but on the occasions I've been to the US it seems to me that tactile greetings and goodbyes are the norm there too.

 

 

How do I translate that into real life where I can't just grab, spin and dip girls?

 

Well, if you're talking to a woman in a bar touch is an important way of signalling interest. Touching somebody on the arm or back isn't unacceptably intrusive. If she flinches away, then that's a message that she doesn't want you to continue touching her...but it's not something to worry over much about. Some people are fine with tactile communication, and others just aren't so keen.

 

I don't really know how you can gauge how well you might be connecting sexually/romantically with a woman without an element of touching being involved. I think perhaps some men are afraid to touch women, but nobody's suggesting you get stuck in there groping bodily parts inappropriately. It's just about establishing some physical contact with non intimate areas that encourages the woman into more physical mode.

 

If it's sexual chemistry you want to create, you really do have to focus on the physical in order to create that sort of chemistry. One man can achieve, with a single touch and appreciative (fast) up and down glance what another might not achieve with 4 hours of earnest conversation.

[Queen Zenobia]

I think the guys who complain on here are full of fear and have entitlement issues. As if they were guaranteed a mate at birth and the universe is going back on its promise. Life is tough. I doubt women find it all that much easier having to be with men. That is at least part of the reason why guys get dumped so much.

 

Complaining about things, to me, is a way to tell the world you can't cope with things. It's a sign of weakness. Acknowledging the world is going to be unfair, and then taking action to set up your life the way you need it to be. If you can't, well that's just another way life isn't fair. Complaining never changed that either.

 

Well entitlement implies that they believe they should be able to get a girlfriend or sex with very little or no effort. Let's put this theory to the test.

 

Guys, in any given period of time (let's say 1 month) how many women different women do you meet, how many are single (that you know of), how many do you ask out, and how many actually go on dates with you? What things do you do to try to meet women?

[fortyninethousand322]

 

Is that really the case? That it's only in a dance class that you're permitted to touch women? I mean I have male friends who use touch plenty with me and other women they know. Kissing on the cheek hello, hugging etc. I know I'm not in the US, but on the occasions I've been to the US it seems to me that tactile greetings and goodbyes are the norm there too.

 

 

I'm with SD, on the touch thing. In the past I've tried to do the whole touch thing with women (hugs and such). Only on the very odd occasion have any of them been okay with it. Most of the time women stop me from hugging them or give me a high five instead.

 

One girl who I used to hang out with in a quasi-romantic way let me hug her at first, but then abruptly decided we shouldn't hug any more, it was "inappropriate". That crushed me.

[Woggle]

That is another thing that gets to me. There is this refusal to acknowledge that sometimes the men is not always to blame. No matter what a woman does somehow a man is to blame or it is celebrated as turning the table and we get a goose for gander justification. It's why in that other thread I was somewhat encouraging him to cheat while his fiance was away. I realize now how wrong that is but I know damn well if the genders were reversed there would have been a tone of you go girl comments.

 

It's these little things that just wear on me until I am just so mad that I post things that I am admit are hateful.

[oaks]

To that end, I have designed a new logo for what I feel is an underrepresented, misunderstood subcommunity on this forum -- whom the OP refers to as the "cynical, bitter, sexually inexperienced men on this forum," and whom I prefer to refer to as the far more politically-correct "Loveshack.org Involuntary Celibacy Society."

 

The logo takes the form of a fist, which represents the hidden passions these men are forced to conceal, as well as their need and desire for solidarity in these troubled times. The color palette is representative of their softer, gentle sides, as well as their proud native Loveshack.org, which they call home, day after excruciating day.

 

:lmao::lmao:

 

Love it!