zengirl Posted November 7, 2011 Posted November 7, 2011 I wanted children. I also wanted grad school, and travel, and more Sunday afternoons spent leisurely in bed with my H. It was a tough choice! In the end, we chose kids. But I'm sure we would have remained happy without. I see it a lot like my desire to go to grad school, and pursue a certain career that I always say "in an alternate life" I would have pursued. I made a choice between what were, for me, two very attractive options. It isn't that I didn't WANT to experience grad school--I did, very much. Happiness is wanting what you have, not having what you want. Interesting thoughts to me. I'm in a PhD program now, and a little closer to 30 than I am to 20, so a lot of the "kids" discussion depends on the man. Had I married my last exBF, we likely would've had kids, because he really wanted them and I am ambivalent---I'd really be happy either way. But the current BF is fairly ambivalent, like I am, so though we'd both be excellent parents (and are currently doggie-parents, and yes, dogs are not children to that-in thread argument! I cannot kennel my child in his/her crate when I go to work; at least I hope no one's doing that, and I don't have to worry about my pup's cognitive functioning and whether or not he'll go to school with the tools to read and a high enough IQ, based on my early childhood parenting), I do not imagine we will have children. Personally, I am not eager to be pregnant, though I do want to potentially foster children or adopt. I work with at-risk children so being a positive force in the foster system appeals to me a lot. My BF worries a bit about his genes as well, since his family history is not ideal. But, as you say, there are many roads worth taking. It isn't about regretting what you do close off, but taking a path and being happy with everything it brings!
ShannonMI Posted November 7, 2011 Posted November 7, 2011 I love dogs but I would never have them living inside my house, only outside. They would be working dogs. That doesn't mean I would keep my kids in a kennel jeeez. Some kids belong in outdoor kennels though. Hahahahahahaha you see why I'm not having children?
Emilia Posted November 7, 2011 Posted November 7, 2011 Not too old to adopt or be a foster parent... That's interesting because I find the idea of fostering (not adopting) a possibility. To give slightly older kids a home until suitable parents are found for them. That - with the right partner, not on my own - I would see as giving something back to society and it isn't something that's alien to me, especially as I know older kids have a harder time finding a home.
xxoo Posted November 7, 2011 Posted November 7, 2011 I'm sure your husband would have loved you no matter what but you probably would have felt your life was empty without children. You wanted kids and that's a good way to be. You see how it affected your life and I'm sure you have zero regrets. Maybe had you been ambiguous, you would have regretted having them in the end. My life wasn't empty before we had kids. I've always felt I'd be very happy in that alternative life with my H. But, as you say, there are many roads worth taking. It isn't about regretting what you do close off, but taking a path and being happy with everything it brings! Yes, exactly!
Emilia Posted November 7, 2011 Posted November 7, 2011 My life wasn't empty before we had kids. I've always felt I'd be very happy in that alternative life with my H. I didn't mean it that way. I just think people want things for a reason that's all
Emilia Posted November 7, 2011 Posted November 7, 2011 But, as you say, there are many roads worth taking. It isn't about regretting what you do close off, but taking a path and being happy with everything it brings! I think that's wishful thinking more than anything. Not all emotions can be rationalised.
grkBoy Posted November 7, 2011 Posted November 7, 2011 The only real-life examples I've seen of women who maintained amazing bodies after pregnancy were: a) A single mom who lived at home...so she had time and money to work out and such. b) A "princess" who married a high-earning guy, so she could dump the baby on a relative and work out all the time, as well as get cosmetic surgery when needed. I can't blame women for saying "no" to kids because they don't want their bodies altered, but I also have yet to see a large amount of guys make such a stink about stretch marks compared to women. I haven't seen a guy say "ew...she's got stretch marks".
zengirl Posted November 7, 2011 Posted November 7, 2011 I think that's wishful thinking more than anything. Not all emotions can be rationalised. Perhaps not everyone desires children to the emotional degree you think they do. I do agree that if something is your VERY heart's desire, then not having it might impede your happiness (to that degree, desire is the enemy of happiness, however) and take more effort to get past, but we were discussing a HAPPY situation --- so many rewarding paths to go down, you just have to pick one and be willing to commit to it fully. There's a lot of good in life without having kids. Truly. All depends on the individual.
norajane Posted November 7, 2011 Posted November 7, 2011 I can't blame women for saying "no" to kids because they don't want their bodies altered, but I also have yet to see a large amount of guys make such a stink about stretch marks compared to women. I haven't seen a guy say "ew...she's got stretch marks". Have you heard, "she let herself go after having kids"? A lot of that is not "letting herself go" but the natural effects of child bearing, including stretch marks, the loose tummy skin, breast changes, etc.
Emilia Posted November 7, 2011 Posted November 7, 2011 Perhaps not everyone desires children to the emotional degree you think they do. I do agree that if something is your VERY heart's desire, then not having it might impede your happiness (to that degree, desire is the enemy of happiness, however) and take more effort to get past, but we were discussing a HAPPY situation --- so many rewarding paths to go down, you just have to pick one and be willing to commit to it fully. There's a lot of good in life without having kids. Truly. All depends on the individual. For sure. I don't want any children. All I'm saying is it is a very emotional issue for most people (ie they either REALLY want them or REALLY DON'T want them) and the opposite of what they want happening doesn't usually bring happiness. If you really desire something - and in my experience breeding comes down to emotions at the end of the day - and you can't get it, you can't rationalise your way out of it.
Emilia Posted November 7, 2011 Posted November 7, 2011 (edited) I can't blame women for saying "no" to kids because they don't want their bodies altered, but I also have yet to see a large amount of guys make such a stink about stretch marks compared to women. I haven't seen a guy say "ew...she's got stretch marks". A lot of men won't date single mums because they are worried that their vagina is too loose after giving birth. Edited November 7, 2011 by Emilia
Pierre Posted November 7, 2011 Posted November 7, 2011 A lot of men won't date single mums because they are worried that their vagina is too loose after giving birth. These men are shallow or they have small penis.:laugh:
ShannonMI Posted November 7, 2011 Posted November 7, 2011 These men are shallow or they have small penis.:laugh: Yes any man that says a woman's vagina is too loose, has a small willy.
Pierre Posted November 7, 2011 Posted November 7, 2011 Yes any man that says a woman's vagina is too loose, has a small willy. Stop the presses! Shannon and i are in agreement!!!!!!!!!:cool:
ShannonMI Posted November 7, 2011 Posted November 7, 2011 Stop the presses! Shannon and i are in agreement!!!!!!!!!:cool: I know right??? Hahahahahahaha like I said I heart you Pierre:love: and I respect your opinions even though I don't always agree with them.
Pierre Posted November 7, 2011 Posted November 7, 2011 I know right??? Hahahahahahaha like I said I heart you Pierre:love: and I respect your opinions even though I don't always agree with them. :o:o:o I am not worthy.
ShannonMI Posted November 7, 2011 Posted November 7, 2011 :o:o:o I am not worthy. Why not? Sure you are:)
ThsAmericanLife Posted November 7, 2011 Posted November 7, 2011 That's interesting because I find the idea of fostering (not adopting) a possibility. To give slightly older kids a home until suitable parents are found for them. That - with the right partner, not on my own - I would see as giving something back to society and it isn't something that's alien to me, especially as I know older kids have a harder time finding a home. I think that mature people would be great foster parents. It takes a special person to help them deal with what has to be a difficult childhood for them. I agree that it would have to be done with a partner. I'm not keen on volunteering as a single parent. There are Big Sister organizations that encourage developing mentor relationships with girls. That would be a good first step. There is another organization where you volunteer to take in a child for two weeks or a month over the summer. That might be cool too. You have the option of having them for multiple summers. When my niece was little, she'd spend two weeks with me every summer. Loved it.
ThsAmericanLife Posted November 7, 2011 Posted November 7, 2011 oh, and about my dog Barkley... he performs multiple functions... he is my hiking buddy when I camp solo out in the woods (he's got a vicious bark)... He keeps me warm at night. I call him the 'dog log' because once he settles in he doesn't move. He's a great cuddler. He sometimes snores just a little, which I find adorable. Call me crazy, but I brush him regularly and save his fur... which I will someday have spun into yarn and will knit into a scarf (he will keep me warm long after he is gone!). The undercoat of some dogs is warmer than wool and softer than angora (rabbit). He protects me in my home. (see scary bark above). He provides comic relief in the courses I teach. I've taught lectures where the students had to determine the drag coefficient over Barkley (I still have a problem with students who think I'd put my dog in turbulent flow!)... and this semester, the porcupine quills he got in his snout during our last camping trip will be used as an example of 'column stiffness' in my class. His sister (who died of a brain tumor a few months ago) was a serious frisbee dog... providing hours of entertainment to me and all my friends... Her fur has been added to Barkley's for future knitting. The only thing I regret is not teaching him how to fetch a beer. My male friends constantly complain about that My ex-BF and now best friend comes to visit Barkley regularly. I sometimes think he only keeps in touch with me so he can hang out with the B-man... and use my cast iron bathtub...
zengirl Posted November 7, 2011 Posted November 7, 2011 For sure. I don't want any children. All I'm saying is it is a very emotional issue for most people (ie they either REALLY want them or REALLY DON'T want them) and the opposite of what they want happening doesn't usually bring happiness. If you really desire something - and in my experience breeding comes down to emotions at the end of the day - and you can't get it, you can't rationalise your way out of it. I think that's a misnomer, really. I used to think I was super weird for being "I could have kids or not have kids and still be just as happy," but a lot of my friends seem to be the same way (some have extreme feelings, of course). I wonder if it's really all that weird, or if society just tells us we SHOULD feel strongly so many people pretend they feel strongly sure of their choice. I think you feel more strongly about your choice once you actually choose it anyway.
ShannonMI Posted November 7, 2011 Posted November 7, 2011 oh, and about my dog Barkley... he performs multiple functions... he is my hiking buddy when I camp solo out in the woods (he's got a vicious bark)... He keeps me warm at night. I call him the 'dog log' because once he settles in he doesn't move. He's a great cuddler. He sometimes snores just a little, which I find adorable. Call me crazy, but I brush him regularly and save his fur... which I will someday have spun into yarn and will knit into a scarf (he will keep me warm long after he is gone!). The undercoat of some dogs is warmer than wool and softer than angora (rabbit). He protects me in my home. (see scary bark above). He provides comic relief in the courses I teach. I've taught lectures where the students had to determine the drag coefficient over Barkley (I still have a problem with students who think I'd put my dog in turbulent flow!)... and this semester, the porcupine quills he got in his snout during our last camping trip will be used as an example of 'column stiffness' in my class. His sister (who died of a brain tumor a few months ago) was a serious frisbee dog... providing hours of entertainment to me and all my friends... Her fur has been added to Barkley's for future knitting. The only thing I regret is not teaching him how to fetch a beer. My male friends constantly complain about that My ex-BF and now best friend comes to visit Barkley regularly. I sometimes think he only keeps in touch with me so he can hang out with the B-man... and use my cast iron bathtub... Aren't dogs great? I love my Miloh. My ex wanted visitation of Miloh when we broke up. Talk about treating an animal like a child. I agreed at first but then put a stop to it when I realized it was a way for him to keep in touch with me. Plus Miloh was always MY dog. We did get him together, but I was always the one he loved the most.
ThsAmericanLife Posted November 7, 2011 Posted November 7, 2011 Aren't dogs great? I love my Miloh. My ex wanted visitation of Miloh when we broke up. Talk about treating an animal like a child. I agreed at first but then put a stop to it when I realized it was a way for him to keep in touch with me. Plus Miloh was always MY dog. We did get him together, but I was always the one he loved the most. Now that you mention it... I do know couples who put pet visitation into their divorce papers! My ex-BF and I dated for a year and neither one of us said the L-word. That was a first for me. Probably why we can still be friends now.
ShannonMI Posted November 7, 2011 Posted November 7, 2011 Now that you mention it... I do know couples who put pet visitation into their divorce papers! My ex-BF and I dated for a year and neither one of us said the L-word. That was a first for me. Probably why we can still be friends now. Hahahahahaha so silly, but I guess people consider their dogs their children. I do consider Miloh my baby, but I'm thankful he's not REALLY a baby, if you know what I mean. My ex and I were together for 8 years and HE dumped ME for someone else, so him seeing the dog was never going to happen. At first I let him, but then I found out about the other girl and that was the end of that. He's an @sshole.
ThsAmericanLife Posted November 7, 2011 Posted November 7, 2011 Hahahahahaha so silly, but I guess people consider their dogs their children. I do consider Miloh my baby, but I'm thankful he's not REALLY a baby, if you know what I mean. My ex and I were together for 8 years and HE dumped ME for someone else, so him seeing the dog was never going to happen. At first I let him, but then I found out about the other girl and that was the end of that. He's an @sshole. I DO know what you mean yep, I wouldn't have given your ex visitation either. Me and the ex-BF split amicably. Both of us are looking for a committed relationship leading to marriage and, while we both really respected each other and are good people, we have some fundamental differences in our values that made a life commitment unwise. Neither cheated in either way. No betrayals. It was tough at first... we both missed the physical connection... but neither one of us wanted things to descend into FWB... That's not either of our styles. I'm very fortunate to have such a good friend. We both realize we are kind of freaks for being able to do this without bitterness.
ShannonMI Posted November 7, 2011 Posted November 7, 2011 I DO know what you mean yep, I wouldn't have given your ex visitation either. Me and the ex-BF split amicably. Both of us are looking for a committed relationship leading to marriage and, while we both really respected each other and are good people, we have some fundamental differences in our values that made a life commitment unwise. Neither cheated in either way. No betrayals. It was tough at first... we both missed the physical connection... but neither one of us wanted things to descend into FWB... That's not either of our styles. I'm very fortunate to have such a good friend. We both realize we are kind of freaks for being able to do this without bitterness. I'm envious that you are able to have a friendly relationship with your ex. I sometimes miss my ex terribly because he was my best friend for 8 years. Now I don't have that. It stinks, but with what he did, I can't ever be friends with him. He wanted to remain friendly, but I did not. And I always feel like the "lets be friends" and "let me see the dog" was his way of keeping tabs on me and of keeping me as a backup plan. If we were on good terms he might win me back if he wanted to. I couldn't allow myself to be put in that position. So it's just me and puppy-boy and I'm ok with that.
Recommended Posts