Wish more women were into the "DINK" lifestyke

[Pierre]

I fit the bill! haha.

 

I don't want kids. I don't want kids for the incredibly shallow and selfish reason of "I don't want to be alone when I'm old," that's no reason to have a child. I just love how judgemental people are when someone says they don't want children, it's like telling them you worship the devil or something. We don't. We just don't want to raise children.

 

My ex used to want kids, and I didn't/don't, and he used to raise the issue with his mam, and try and get her to convince me to have them. I was called unnatural, several times by them. I'm not, I just don't want children. I think it's far more selfish to have a child simply to satisfy other people, or maybe to satisfy yourself that you are natural etc.

 

Some people want children, others don't. I'm completely into the DINK lifestyle.

 

 

Obviously is much more than not been alone in old age. Children fulfill a natural drive for many and it is a difficult job, no doubt. In any event family is not only necessary for old age. In fact when a person is dying in a nursing home family is a moot point. Family plays a greater role during our entire lives and it is probably part of our humanity and who we are as people. It seems we evolved that way. OTOH, other animals evolved to be solitary and perhaps that is where we are heading I this journey.

 

What I find extremely curious is that childless couples treat their pets as children.

 

There is an obvious reason as to why GYN docs are reluctant to tie the tubes of young women with no kids. The rate of remorse and "I changed my mind" is rather high. Most docs are afraid of litigation and there is always the risk of a lawsuit by a female that may claim she was not counseled properly.

 

I find maternal instincts to be sexy because it accentuates femininity. However, that is my opinion and I say it freely. I am not like the men who say yes to everything women say to be on their good side.

[ThsAmericanLife]

When women set up a high number of criteria regarding what they want in a permanent relationship they are cutting the number of available candidates to almost nothing. As a man I prefer bio kids and I am certain most men feel that way. So by thinking that way you reduce your chances of finding Mr Right. I am just talking generically since you are 47, however, this mostly applies to women in their 20s and early 30s.

 

We had the same issue with women that insisted on having tattoos. By doing so they discard more than 50% of available men.

 

I don't know about how most men feel about it... When I was looking for such things, I'd say it was about 50/50 among men who wanted families.

 

Call me vain, but my stomach is perfectly flat, I have no stretch marks, my boobs aren't saggy and neither is any other part of my body. Yes, I suppose that giving birth can be a beautiful experience with the right man.

 

However, given the 50% divorce rate and the number of kids who legitimately need good homes... I say... keep the nice body and adopt. Or get a surrogate if all the guy cares about is the baby looking like him.

 

The second husband is going to have to be ok with kids from another man ;p. Unless you plan on not dating women who have kids from another man. That would be a bit hypocritical, doncha think?

 

Just remembered... I have a friend who had two children who refused to give birth vaginally after reading what it does to women's urinary function in later life. It took her awhile, but she eventually found a doctor willing to do a cesarean. I suspect she wanted the convenience of 'scheduling' the birth. She was up for tenure at the time. She didn't breast feed either. I guess having boobs that looked like an african bush-woman straight out of National Geographic wasn't her thing either.

 

Are you ok dating women without tattoos, but have stretch marks and baby sag boobs? What would you do if your wife ended up looking like this after giving birth? I recall you were against plastic surgery in a past post.

 

I mean, is having kids more like a 'romantic' thing with you... or can you deal with reality and what it does to a woman's body? alot of guys can't... or they want a woman to raise their kids and have a nice fit young (looking) thing on the side.

 

Four married men in the past two years have tried to hit me up for that deal.

[ThsAmericanLife]

I find maternal instincts to be sexy because it accentuates femininity. However, that is my opinion and I say it freely. I am not like the men who say yes to everything women say to be on their good side.

 

There are plenty of women who have nurturing instincts but would rather adopt.

 

I know you find that hard to believe. Some women feel it is more important to give good homes to the children who are already here rather than create more... and actively seek out men who feel the same way who can love a child regardless of it's origin.

 

If you have a manifest destiny approach to reproduction, then that is fine. The family who lives behind me shares your belief. They don't use birth control and have 9 children. She looks worn out. Good for them.

 

Just don't imply that women who don't want to give birth are not 'feminine' or nurturing. I'd argue that in some cases, the reverse is true. Plenty of women have children for very selfish reasons... as the abundance of bad mothers out there should illustrate.

[xxoo]

I don't know about how most men feel about it... When I was looking for such things, I'd say it was about 50/50 among men who wanted families.

 

Call me vain, but my stomach is perfectly flat, I have no stretch marks, my boobs aren't saggy and neither is any other part of my body. Yes, I suppose that giving birth can be a beautiful experience with the right man.

 

However, given the 50% divorce rate and the number of kids who legitimately need good homes... I say... keep the nice body and adopt. Or get a surrogate if all the guy cares about is the baby looking like him.

 

The second husband is going to have to be ok with kids from another man ;p. Unless you plan on not dating women who have kids from another man. That would be a bit hypocritical, doncha think?

 

Just remembered... I have a friend who had two children who refused to give birth vaginally after reading what it does to women's urinary function in later life. It took her awhile, but she eventually found a doctor willing to do a cesarean. I suspect she wanted the convenience of 'scheduling' the birth. She was up for tenure at the time. She didn't breast feed either. I guess having boobs that looked like an african bush-woman straight out of National Geographic wasn't her thing either.

 

Are you ok dating women without tattoos, but have stretch marks and baby sag boobs? What would you do if your wife ended up looking like this after giving birth? I recall you were against plastic surgery in a past post.

 

I mean, is having kids more like a 'romantic' thing with you... or can you deal with reality and what it does to a woman's body? alot of guys can't... or they want a woman to raise their kids and have a nice fit young (looking) thing on the side.

 

Four married men in the past two years have tried to hit me up for that deal.

 

Good lord, what is with the hating on mother's bodies??!

 

Boobs sag, babies or not. Athletic moms have flat bellies (I've got abs!). Even men get stretch marks.

 

I wish women would stop making other women feel bad about their normal, healthy, BEAUTIFUL bodies.

[carhill]

I'll add my data points since all my partners have been mothers, except my exW...

 

All of the 'moms' had pretty awesome bodies. The oldest was a grandmother when we got together. The youngest was 37. With due respect to my exW, she didn't have anything on them for not having any children. At the other end of the road, admitting I probably saw far more than I really cared to, my mom, at 80+, had a pretty amazing body for a woman that age. Very few wrinkles, no stretch marks (and I was a huge baby) and good skin and muscle tone. The younger ladies didn't have much on her. Like I said, I would rather not have seen that but dealing with her body was part of my job as a caregiver. I won't add in all the female friends who are mothers I've seen in bikinis since I never saw them naked but those data points support the others. Very few were visibly impacted negatively by pregnancy.

 

 

From a male perspective, mine anyway, no complaints about moms.

 

OP, my bet is you'll likely have a better chance of finding a DINK-type lady today than at any time in history, so get that vasectomy and get going

[FitChick]

I've read study after study over the years showing married couples experience a deep decline in marital satisfaction with the birth of a child. If they are lucky to survive eighteen years, after the kids leave home, the couple are much happier in the "empty nest."

 

You can be nurturing to friends, lovers, pets, other family members, not just kids. My men have loved my looking after them after years of neglect by their ex-wives who only had time for the kids and treated their husbands like cash machines. Men in second marriages almost never want more kids, so we childfree women are more sought after than women with a ticking biological clock.

[xxoo]

From a male perspective, mine anyway, no complaints about moms.

 

Thanks for speaking up for the moms!

 

I know many men who would agree with you

[Woggle]

Good lord, what is with the hating on mother's bodies??!

 

Boobs sag, babies or not. Athletic moms have flat bellies (I've got abs!). Even men get stretch marks.

 

I wish women would stop making other women feel bad about their normal, healthy, BEAUTIFUL bodies.

 

There is nothing wrong with mother's bodies. Look at all the known sex symbols who have kids. It's sad that mothers get it from both sides. Conservatives have made it very hard to have a family with their economic policies and some feminists degrade mothers as if the work they do is not important.

 

I respect people who choose not to have kids because my wife and I are among them but I would never discount the very meaningful work that parents do in raising the next generation.

[ThsAmericanLife]

...Welcome to Earth.

 

This world is sick.

 

Why don't you get a personality so men won't leave you over a stretch mark? The same guys who would have a problem over breasts sagging a little bit or some stretch marks because of pregnancy are the same guys who will hump and dump you. I guess that's what you're looking for, good luck with that.

 

 

I find this hilarious.

 

If you are angry about men who dump women with stretch marks and saggy boobs, perhaps you should be venting on them...

[ThsAmericanLife]

Good lord, what is with the hating on mother's bodies??!

 

Boobs sag, babies or not. Athletic moms have flat bellies (I've got abs!). Even men get stretch marks.

 

I wish women would stop making other women feel bad about their normal, healthy, BEAUTIFUL bodies.

 

It's not women making women feel bad about their bodies.

 

I'm skeptical that most men accept most women's post-baby bodies given our abundant porn industry and rate of divorce/infidelity...

 

Most of my friends and family do have children... and most of them were married quite young and stayed together. So, yes, I do see very many examples of men who love their wives.

[Woggle]

Most men are not that affected by porn and women are at fault for a good part of the divorce and infidelity rate. It is not just men cheating on and leaving their spouses.

[OnyxSnowfall]

Mmm, I have stretch marks from having my babies. Hasn't seemed to have deterred males, stranger or otherwise For instance, when they've been visible during summer-time (i.e, when I'm barely covered by my skimpy bikinis)... my lover told me they were kind of hot and had smexy meaning in them, like the female version of male battle scars

 

I personally thought I was sexier without them, but apparently I had enough sexy to still be sexy even with them

[ThsAmericanLife]

Most men are not that affected by porn and women are at fault for a good part of the divorce and infidelity rate. It is not just men cheating on and leaving their spouses.

 

Hmm... given my personal experience... and the frequency of men trying to get me to help them cheat on their wives lately...

 

I'd say my own personal statistic is oh, 0 to 5?? meaning, 5 cheating men to 0 cheating women? I know this isn't the statistic in real life. Just my personal observation.

 

I work around all men, so I realize my opportunities are a bit out of the ordinary. Plus the life-stages of most of the men. Typical mid-life crisis type behavior for these guys.

[Woggle]

Hmm... given my personal experience... and the frequency of men trying to get me to help them cheat on their wives lately...

 

I'd say my own personal statistic is oh, 0 to 5?? meaning, 5 cheating men to 0 cheating women? I know this isn't the statistic in real life. Just my personal observation.

 

I work around all men, so I realize my opportunities are a bit out of the ordinary. Plus the life-stages of most of the men. Typical mid-life crisis type behavior for these guys.

 

Here are some examples

 

I was cheated on myself in my first marriage

I worked with two women who bragged as if they were feminist heroes for cheating on their husbands.

I had a married woman at an event once try and get me into her hotel room on a business trip

When I go out with the guys not even thinking about women I have women with wedding rings on trying to flirt with me

 

You are not a man so you do not see it from our end but there is quite a bit of cheating from women.

[sweetjasmine]

What I noticed in the forums I looked at was that a majority of women were for the male pill and had no problems at all with it. Would love to see what would be said about it here.

 

Count me in for "absolutely a great idea." A male birth control pill would be an excellent advance.

 

There is an obvious reason as to why GYN docs are reluctant to tie the tubes of young women with no kids. The rate of remorse and "I changed my mind" is rather high. Most docs are afraid of litigation and there is always the risk of a lawsuit by a female that may claim she was not counseled properly.

 

Do you have any evidence that the "rate of remorse" is rather high and that OB/GYNs who approved tubal ligations for patients have been sued?

 

The women I know who decided against having children and were eventually able to get a doctor to perform a tubal ligation never regretted their decision, but they were upset by the fact that it took them so much time and effort to find a doctor willing to perform the procedure. It's pretty insulting to tell someone that they'll change their mind one day. Some people really do not have a desire to have their own children, and it's better that they do what they feel is right instead of caving in and having children they don't even want.

[ThsAmericanLife]

I'd be ALL for men having access to birth control other than condoms.

 

Of course, before I got my tubal, I'd still have used birth control myself... but even the pill isn't 100%. Better safe than sorry.

 

... and yea, I agree with the other poster that it is condescending to tell a grown woman she's going to change her mind later on. That is none of the doctor's business anyway. The woman who did mine was very clear that she made it impossible to reverse... for health reasons. An ectopic pregnancy (ie a pregnancy that develops in the fallopian tubes) can be life threatening.

 

If a woman is going to have a tubal, make sure they cut out a section (not just 'snip' it) and cauterize both ends. Those will absolutely NOT be growing back together.

 

If the woman is mentally stable and healthy enough to survive the surgery without complications is all a doctor should care about.

[Pierre]

Count me in for "absolutely a great idea." A male birth control pill would be an excellent advance.

 

 

 

Do you have any evidence that the "rate of remorse" is rather high and that OB/GYNs who approved tubal ligations for patients have been sued?

 

The women I know who decided against having children and were eventually able to get a doctor to perform a tubal ligation never regretted their decision, but they were upset by the fact that it took them so much time and effort to find a doctor willing to perform the procedure. It's pretty insulting to tell someone that they'll change their mind one day. Some people really do not have a desire to have their own children, and it's better that they do what they feel is right instead of caving in and having children they don't even want.

 

For every young childless woman that wants a tubal ligation there are hundreds of older women that already had kids and want the procedure. Doctors are hesitant to perform that surgery in very young women without kids.

 

Thinking of filing suit for not being informed?

 

Many women have contacted us asking if they can sue their doctor for not informing them of all the risks. The answer is yes. Will you win, that is the question...

 

Here is some information that you should be aware of…..

 

Because the issue is that which involves a doctor, and events that occurred in a medical setting one always thinks of medical malpractice. While it may be true that malpractice occurs with the issue of non-consent, so do other laws such as fraud, contract law, torts, and more...

 

For medical malpractice each state has a statue of limitations. That means you have a set amount of time to file suit after you were injured (date of your surgery). In some states this statue is one year, in others it is 18 months, in other states it is two years.

http://www.tubal.org/LR.htm

 

Coalition for Post Tubal Women: Who we Are

 

 

 

 

Who we are:

We are your sister, wife, mother, daughter,

grandmother, friend, neighbor, co-worker,

boss, patient,...

 

We are ordinary women who have had a tubal ligation or knows someone who did who has suffered untold side effects. We are networking and organizing to achieve certain goals.

[Pierre]

 

If a woman is going to have a tubal, make sure they cut out a section (not just 'snip' it) and cauterize both ends. Those will absolutely NOT be growing back together.

 

If the woman is mentally stable and healthy enough to survive the surgery without complications is all a doctor should care about.

 

Some Gyn do not need the headache or the risk of a young woman that wants to be tied up. The threat of a lawsuit is real and the lawyers are lurking.

 

If a woman goes to court all she has to say is that the doctor was not forceful enough in counseling her against tubal ligation.

 

As I said there are plenty of older women with kids that desire the surgery and many docs rater about the risk of a young childless patient.

[Pierre]

Tubal Sterilization For Young Women With No Children

One of today’s patients at Chapel Hill Surgical Center was a woman in her thirties who recently become married and had a tubal ligation at age 24 years when she had no children. Her tubal ligation had been performed by a tubal coagulation procedure in which the fallopian tubes were burned at the junction of her uterus. The tubal lumen or opening within the uterine wall was scarred completely on both the right and left sides from the burning procedure. Therefore, the only way to perform a tubal reversal was through the technique of tubouterine implantation.

 

I mention this case because it was unnecessarily destructive, especially when performed for a young woman with no children. Many studies show that these are women who are most likely to change their minds later on and want to be able to have children. In this case, almost any other tubal ligation procedure would have been preferable. In my view, the best choice of a tubal ligation for a young woman with no children is the clip method (either Hulka clip or Filshie clip).

 

I have encountered other cases like this in the past. I wonder if the doctor who performed her tubal ligation considered the possibility that the patient might change her mind, and therefore it would be preferable to perform a tubal ligation better suited to reversing at a later time, should the need arise.

 

 

Chapel Hill Tubal Reversal Center

109 Conner Drive, Suite 2200

Chapel Hill, NC 27514

[amythan]

I am very much into the DINK lifestyle.

 

I do not have any desire of having children and I do not think this is going to change .. I am in my late 30s ! My ex-bf and I broke up because of this reason but i am not really interested in having a family.

[xxoo]

It's not women making women feel bad about their bodies.

 

IME, yeah, it is.

 

How do you think your post about mother's bellies and breasts come across to mothers?

 

Men of "father" age just don't care about these things, by and large, as long as the woman is "fit" and attractive.

[Pierre]

IME, yeah, it is.

 

How do you think your post about mother's bellies and breasts come across to mothers?

 

Men of "father" age just don't care about these things, by and large, as long as the woman is "fit" and attractive.

 

I think vanity is not attractive in both men and women.

 

Materialism is also not attractive.

 

I agree with your posts on this subject.

[Eclypse]

I'm a 21 y/o male who would like kids in the future, after getting my life in order. She wants them too, but she seems to prefer the adoption pathway. This could potentially cause conflict later on when we do get serious about kids. I want my children to be biologically mine. That would be my ideal option with adoption only really coming in after all other avenues have been exhausted. She however isn't too flash on the idea of pregnancy and childbirth (I can understand that).

 

Well I don't mean to threadjack but that's another dynamic you could throw in..

[allina]

This was me a few years ago. I was certain I would never want or have kids. I was never militant about it, I just didn't think I would ever want them.

 

Now, at 28, I have the most amazing husband in the world and I cannot wait to have his babies :love: These things change, though I believe couples can be happy either way. However, after 5+ years of the "DINK" lifestyle my husband and I are ready for more

[alphamale]

Now, at 28, I have the most amazing husband in the world and I cannot wait to have his babies :love:

remember that you're still a baby