My boyfriend jokes about hitting me?

[johan]

 

If Kali does choose to detach herself from this guy, I hope that it will be because she recognises that she's placing herself at risk in this relationship and because she's ready to find something better for herself. It shouldn't be because she's afraid about worrying other people, or because strangers on a message board are frustrated that she isn't following their advice 5 minutes after they dispensed it.

 

That would simply be another example of her just reacting to other people's control issues, frustrations and needs (to have their advice validated and followed).

 

What is with people anyway? Like she's going to make this big move in her life because of what they said. Some people seem to think they speak the word of God, and their advice must be followed immediately. Or else it's time to drop the hammer and start tearing her down.

 

I would be a little alarmed to see her post, "ok, I dumped him and left. That was easy. Now tell me what to do next!"

[Taramere]

What is with people anyway? Like she's going to make this big move in her life because of what they said. Some people seem to think they speak the word of God, and their advice must be followed immediately. Or else it's time to drop the hammer and start tearing her down.

 

I would be a little alarmed to see her post, "ok, I dumped him and left. That was easy. Now tell me what to do next!"

 

 

I know. I think it's the nature of online community advice that 12 hours is like the real life equivalent of 12 months. People want to see some kind of fast resolution, and that desire kind of takes over and supercedes common sense.

 

Surely we all know logically that when a person expresses a problem to others, it's just one small (though often important) step in the problem solving stage. And they will respond to potential solutions with lots of "yes, but"...because it's human nature generally to be quite resistant to change. Even if it's change that they know deep down is for the better.

 

It's kind of useless to berate a person for having that fearful resistance to change. Like screaming at a child who is nervous about swimming to "just jump into the effing pool, for Christ's sake." Especially when somebody has been through a traumatic situation and is entrenched in an abusive relationship. "Tough love" is something they're already getting more than enough of....and I don't believe it's the way to empower a frightened person.

[betterdeal]

Naturally, we'd all like for her to not be further abused. Given the parameters we have i.e. she is not ready to leave him, I gave a suggestion for change within those parameters. If she feels safe in doing so, actually spelling it out to him may have a remarkable effect. It may not. She likes the guy, she doesn't like being threatened, jokingly or otherwise.

 

My guess is he has something much more ordinary in his mind and it's triggering an extraordinary reaction. Perhaps he has an ulcer; whatever it is, he's expressing himself in anger and is perhaps not even aware of what it is that's bugging him.

[johan]

True. I don't expect OP to leave. But meh, she asked for advice, and people are giving it. What is frustrating is that it's a "yeah he is that, but..." situation, because it's always frustrating when you can recognise the signs of abuse.

 

Then again, a lot of people on message boards ask for advice, and don't take it themselves. Win some, lose some. All same to me!!:bunny:

 

In the end, she is going to do what she is going to do. She might break things off with him, but it will be when she has reached some kind of limit. When the cost of being in the relationship outweighs the benefits, as she sees them.

 

It is also worth noting that it takes some time to get the courage up to leave someone who apparently is perfectly willing to get nasty when things aren't going well. And until you have gotten the courage up, you have to justify staying. To yourself and others.

[carhill]

OP, how do you feel about being alone?

[LurkerXX]

Someone who is at a low in their life is going to be defensive when someone tries to 'tell them the hard truth'. That is why I just answer the question and leave it at that. People can and do change, and positive support can encourage someone to do the hard work that makes that change stick. But those initial first steps, or those second or third times attempting to change-the early stages are internal-the person has to make those and that is just something out of any other person's control. I never knew that sort of abusive life because my mom made that choice to leave an abusive man-so it is possible. I got to grow up with both parents being loving. And who she is today is one of the strongest people I know.

Edited November 5, 2011 by LurkerXX

[Star Gazer]

Kali, it strikes me that no matter what people tell you, you won't leave or help yourself. You're not ready to admit what is right in front of your face.

 

I'm not going to moddy coddle you, or say I feel sorry for you, because I don't. You're making a choice here in staying, and that choice is saying to him to continue to treat you this way because you find it acceptable. I don't think you are some poor girl, I think you are astute enough to know this is wrong, but you are too comfortable to leave it.

 

I can tell many people are frustrated with certain posters coming here for advice, and not listening, even though it's palpably obvious to everyone but the OP what is really going on (and often the OP as well, they're just willfully denying it). But I urge you all to look at the situation presented, and tailor your advice to it.

 

The above sort of advice, IMO, is appropriate for someone who's trying to figure out whether a relationship is right for her, whether the two people are compatible, whether they have relationship skills, and perhaps deal with unsavory details, like determining whether the partner is selfish and narcissistic and able to meet her relationship needs, or cheating. That is, someone who needs advice dealing with dating, and thus is in the dating forum.

 

HOWEVER, the above sort of advice, IMO, is NOT AT ALL appropriate for someone in the OP's situation - one dealing with obvious emotional abuse, and eventual physical abuse. If anything, it makes her feel justified in staying, because... "he's the only one who understands her."

 

I agree entirely with Taramere that the OP should seek out a forum dealing with abuse, because the advice OP is receiving here does not fit her situation.

[Nexus One]

Sometimes when we're walking he'll grab hold of my neck.... This usually only happens when we're walking from the car to apt, where nobody can see. We were walking to the car from the beach last night and a group of people were walking by. He was holding me by the neck and as we got closer I tried to remove his grip, but he wouldn't let go. He smiled and asked if I was scared they'd think he beat me. I wasn't sure if he was joking or not, but I was high and he totally knocked me down a few notches. I was just confused, and he was hurting my neck. I don't know what happened, but he suddenly let go and looked at me funny. "What's wrong, you don't want me holding you?" Maybe I was high and being paranoid, but that's not something I normally do. It just didn't feel right.

 

Absolutely unacceptable behavior. By grabbing your neck like that and hurting you and scaring you he crossed a major line.

 

He talks about how he manipulates people to get what he wants... After the neck thing last night I'm thinking maybe I should pay more attention to these types of comments.

 

He's exposing a darker side of himself to you, so YEAH, I think you might want to pay attention to what he's saying and make a decision on whether or not that's the kind of person you want to have a relationship with.

Edited November 5, 2011 by Nexus One

[Star Gazer]

I give advice based on what I think, and I think no matter how it is written, or presented to her, she is not going to listen until she is ready to regardless. Essentially, most posters are saying the same things, just in different ways. I think sitting, patting someone's back whilst saying "poor girl" is inappropriate entirely for this.

 

Then again, I also think it's a public forum whereby people can and will post in the manner they see fit, and not how someone else tells them is appropriate. I wasn't being nasty, just honest. I don't doubt for one minute that this is difficult for her. In fact, I'm not going to determine what is appropriate by other people's standards to post, or not.

 

I said nothing nasty, aside from just being honest. I'm not even frustrated, just being honest. It's time people on here started focusing on their own posts, and not the posts of others.

 

If you know anything about me, Sweetz, you know that I hate, hate, hate when people focus on the way I post as opposed to the point that's being made. I don't think I've ever before commented on the harshness or (in)appropriateness of advice before, but that's because I've never seen someone in this particular type of situation (a rape victim being taken advantage of and abused by her rescuer) basically being told she's weak and will never change.

 

There is still a time and a place for the type of advice you're providing. I can think of two particular posters who it fits. But she's not those posters. If she's real, and if the situation is actually as she's presented it, then we all know she's in a literally abusive relationship (emotional for now, physical inevitably), which is quite different than someone just making relationship mistakes, and needs to be treated differently than someone who's just making relationship mistakes.

 

Further, much unlike a couple of our infamous posters who repeatedly come here for advice and refuse to listen, the OP has NOT established a repeated and unhealthy relationship pattern, or that she's resistant to advice. She came here for the first time about 36 hours ago. Do you expect miracles to happen that quickly?

 

I'm by no means advocating kid gloves, but that the advice be tailored to the situation. The situation is: this girl was RAPED, and now her boyfriend, who she views as her rescuer from a sh*tty situation, is taking advantage of her current-emotionally weak position, and emotionally abusing and exploiting her, and appears to be ready and able to physically and sexually exploit her. She's made the right first step in coming here to present the situation, as it shows she KNOWS something is off...

 

So, telling her she'll never change and never listen isn't going to motivate her to change. It's only going to further drive her into his arms, as her rescuer.

 

Instead, I suggest we all encourage her to focus on and evaluate and analyze that bad feeling that she DOES have, that she's said he has, that something's not right, that's making her feel uneasy and giving her anxiety, and support her analysis that this isn't right and that she needs to get the eff out.

[snug.bunny]

My bf constantly makes jokes about hurting me. Slapping me, losing teeth, bloody noses, eyes swollen shut. He's always sizing me up and saying how small, weak and fragile I am, calling this cute. And how I'm the weak woman and he's the strong man. How easy it would be for him to break a bone or knock me out. He makes up stories and puts us in these weird scenarios. Like me waking up in the hospital and not remember anything except for the silhouette of his fist. Me telling my friends that what doesn't hurt me makes me stronger. How people think he's such a good dude and would never suspect he'd do such a thing. He's always saying things like "I really don't want to have to hurt nobody today." Balling his fist...

 

Sometimes when we're walking he'll grab hold of my neck.... This usually only happens when we're walking from the car to apt, where nobody can see. We were walking to the car from the beach last night and a group of people were walking by. He was holding me by the neck and as we got closer I tried to remove his grip, but he wouldn't let go. He smiled and asked if I was scared they'd think he beat me. I wasn't sure if he was joking or not, but I was high and he totally knocked me down a few notches. I was just confused, and he was hurting my neck. I don't know what happened, but he suddenly let go and looked at me funny. "What's wrong, you don't want me holding you?" Maybe I was high and being paranoid, but that's not something I normally do. It just didn't feel right. I just kept pulling away and telling him to let go. He apologized sarcastically later. "Sorry if I shook you up, a man shouldn't scare or slap his woman around. You're so cute." Then he proceeded to talking about how he wouldn't want to have to hurt me because I was too cute... I told him he was a storyteller. He asked if I liked his stories... I asked if he was kidding and he said nevermind. I asked him later on what he meant by it and he said "whatever I said, I was just joking." And that was the end of that.

Though he woke up today the same old him, talking about kicking my butt.

 

Just a few minutes ago he was looking for something and I told him where it was. His response: "See, you are good for something"

 

He talks about how he manipulates people to get what he wants... After the neck thing last night I'm thinking maybe I should pay more attention to these types of comments.

 

He always turns casual conversations into argument. For example the other day we were in traffic and a dude on a Harley was in the lane next to us. My bf asked if his bike looked new. I'm thinking we're just engaging in insignificant chatter. I told him the bike looked new, but considering the fact the he had on a bikers' jacket, it probably wasn't. He just took care of his bike. My boyfriend agreed. Then I just decided to change it up. I said maybe it was a new bike. That since he's in a biking club, he's probably been riding forever, and that Harley probably wasn't his first bike. It turned into a huge argument. He said I was trying to prove him wrong, and that I should just listen to him... That he knew these types of things. I didn't know it was that serious. I thought we were just talking. He hates being wrong. We can't just talk about silly things unless I feel like holding my tongue and just nodding at everything he says.

 

Does this sound red flag? Am I overanalyzing?

 

Going by your initial description of your boyfriend’s behavior towards you, his behavior comes across as bullish and patronizing, and he makes comments that come across as “threatening” almost as if to “instill fear”.

 

It kind of sounds like he enjoys taunting you, and enjoys asserting his “dominance” over you (he portrays you as the “fragile one“, and portrays himself as the “strong one”). Abusers tend to belittle the other person frequently, sometimes out of “thin air“, which strips away the recipients self-esteem and erodes it over time. The problem with abuse, is that sometimes it can be so subtle, that by the time you recognize what is going on it is too late because you are already emotionally dependant on the abuser (“too late” in the sense that it becomes very difficult for the person to walk away unhinged).

 

When you say “he grabbed my neck”, was he choking you or gripping the back of your neck and squeezing it?

 

Other things to pay attention to is his temper. Does he have a noticeable temper, whereas he loses his temper quite frequently and acts out when he does (I.e. yells at the person, punches/hits things, throws things, etc.).

 

Ultimately, when someone is abusing another person, it is done to dominate and control the other person, their thoughts, their feelings, their entire being and existence. This is done through fear mongering, intimidation, bullying, constant belittling, mocking, yelling, humiliation, trying to make the other person feel guilty and shameful, and sometimes physical assault.

 

Try to pay close attention to your thought process, how you feel when he says certain things, and the outcome. I know when someone makes an “off-comment” to me (nothing like what you wrote per se) my body reacts in a way that “signals” or “alerts” me to danger, almost like a “fight /flight” response. Sometimes it’s difficult to distinguish whether or not a comment that is made by someone, is full of malice and/or what your response should be (fight, flight, or nothing). So, try to be aware of what is going on “around” you.

 

Aside from that, you say your boyfriend is a good boyfriend, is respectful of you and treats you well otherwise. Would you be able to have an open discussion with him about this (outside of an argument of course)? Because as I see it, ignoring his behavior won’t solve anything, and it bothered you enough where you are now questioning the relationship and whether or not it would be wise to continue it. So, it would be an appropriate time to intervene and inspect the issue a little more closely.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

If there was one word to be described as the most useless in the English language, it's "should". You'll be surprised at what some people think or don't think. He may think he is making a joke. He may not think, this is hurting the person I love.

 

I'm also impressed with your seemingly preternatural ability to predict what he will or won't do. What's that based on? A few posts by her on this thread?

 

You're defending abusive behavior.

 

I am surprised you think a kind word from her is going to be having him so "oh gosh, it's not right to say you want to make your girlfriend bloody and loosing her teeth and give her a trip to the hospital? It's not right to squeeze her neck to the point she is scared and uncomfortable? Well gosh darn, I better stop that." Especially because she talks about how he argues with her over stupid things and has regularly displayed a disregard for her feelings and body. This isn't one red flag. It's a series of behaviors he's regularly doing that is already abusive toward her.

 

If a woman needs to teach a grown adult man that it's not right to joke about abusing women, that man is not a good one.

[Kali91]

Thank you to everybody who took the time to answer. I especially appreciate those who used consideration to/when give/giving their mature, unbiased opinion of my situation. Your words have not fallen on deaf ears, or should I say numb fingers. I have read the entire thread thoughtfully and am truly thankful for the concern and information some of you have given me. Be assured you did not waste your time responding. I did not come here as a prank or to troll. I did not come here to stir or insult anybody. I did not come here to be patted on the head or croon blues of woe. I came here because after the "beach incident" an alarm went off in my head that perhaps my boyfriends remarks have been more than a perverse sense of humor. I am a bright and optimistic young woman. I understand the urgency of my situation and am evaluating my relationship. I'm confident that I will manage to do whatever is in the best interest of my well-being pysically, mentally and emotionally.

[missed_theboat]

Kali91, you're just just four years younger than me, the same age as my cousin, whom I love dearly. She has been in abusive relationships that she cannot leave because she has such a connection with him, feelings that she cannot leave...because he's all she has.

 

Believe me, you are very articulate in your posts. Some of the writing is very very good! You sound very intelligent, and I KNOW that it's hard to walk away from someone you love, because it's a mind-****.

 

But if you're making excuses for him and he does anything but love, respect, and nurture you, he's not worth it! You know there are wonderful men out there that will comfort you when you have an anxiety attack, never blame you for your rape (I'm so sorry that happened to you) or make any off-color remarks about it OR joke about hurting you.

 

Once I joked to my ex that I would "kill him" if he ever cheated on me, and I was teasing, in that way that you say "Man, I'll kill him" but he was put off by it, and kind of said "Man, I hope you wouldn't kill me," but he just didn't like the phrase, and I saw how it affected him so I didn't say it again. Even something so simple between lovers can really hurt someone, even if it's completely harmless to the other. But, explicitly referring to hurting your partner is completely disrespectful and a sign of serious emotional abuse, a precursor to physical abuse.

 

I see he's he's already laid hands on you. Lovers should only touch each other in loving passion, not angry passion. The difference is, you feel comfortable. You are not afraid of someone, worry what he'll think of something you say, do, or wear. Love is supposed to be kind and forgiving and blissful. If it's not, get out.

 

Girl, you're a beautiful soul and you have so much to offer this world. You can do something wonderful and you don't even need a man to do it. Make lots of good friends and have fun, but please remember you do not deserve to feel anything less than safe and secure and loved, even if that is on your own. As the Buddha says, "You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection." It's hard, but if we love ourselves impeccably, we won't stand for anyone who claims to love us and doesn't do so impeccably.

[Kali91]

Kali91, you're just just four years younger than me, the same age as my cousin, whom I love dearly. She has been in abusive relationships that she cannot leave because she has such a connection with him, feelings that she cannot leave...because he's all she has.

 

Believe me, you are very articulate in your posts. Some of the writing is very very good! You sound very intelligent, and I KNOW that it's hard to walk away from someone you love, because it's a mind-****.

 

But if you're making excuses for him and he does anything but love, respect, and nurture you, he's not worth it! You know there are wonderful men out there that will comfort you when you have an anxiety attack, never blame you for your rape (I'm so sorry that happened to you) or make any off-color remarks about it OR joke about hurting you.

 

Once I joked to my ex that I would "kill him" if he ever cheated on me, and I was teasing, in that way that you say "Man, I'll kill him" but he was put off by it, and kind of said "Man, I hope you wouldn't kill me," but he just didn't like the phrase, and I saw how it affected him so I didn't say it again. Even something so simple between lovers can really hurt someone, even if it's completely harmless to the other. But, explicitly referring to hurting your partner is completely disrespectful and a sign of serious emotional abuse, a precursor to physical abuse.

 

I see he's he's already laid hands on you. Lovers should only touch each other in loving passion, not angry passion. The difference is, you feel comfortable. You are not afraid of someone, worry what he'll think of something you say, do, or wear. Love is supposed to be kind and forgiving and blissful. If it's not, get out.

 

Girl, you're a beautiful soul and you have so much to offer this world. You can do something wonderful and you don't even need a man to do it. Make lots of good friends and have fun, but please remember you do not deserve to feel anything less than safe and secure and loved, even if that is on your own. As the Buddha says, "You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection." It's hard, but if we love ourselves impeccably, we won't stand for anyone who claims to love us and doesn't do so impeccably.

 

Total mind****. I don't think some people have any idea. I think my bs meter has failed me. I'm so much better at being single. I've invested more of myself into him than I have past boyfriends, and I guess it was a flop.

 

In a perfect world, I'd be a several times published writer.

 

Thanks for your thoughts! And I love the quote. I'm going to write it down!

[Taramere]

Thank you to everybody who took the time to answer. I especially appreciate those who used consideration to/when give/giving their mature, unbiased opinion of my situation. Your words have not fallen on deaf ears, or should I say numb fingers. I have read the entire thread thoughtfully and am truly thankful for the concern and information some of you have given me. Be assured you did not waste your time responding. I did not come here as a prank or to troll. I did not come here to stir or insult anybody. I did not come here to be patted on the head or croon blues of woe. I came here because after the "beach incident" an alarm went off in my head that perhaps my boyfriends remarks have been more than a perverse sense of humor. I am a bright and optimistic young woman. I understand the urgency of my situation and am evaluating my relationship. I'm confident that I will manage to do whatever is in the best interest of my well-being pysically, mentally and emotionally.

 

Great post, Kali. Lots of luck to you. You certainly do sound like a bright, articulate person...and I sincerely hope you'll go back to college. I'm sure you'd make a great success of it.