You've Not Seen This B4! (Looong post)

[1mp]

Hi guys, I'm new and I need your help. I'm a straight talker so appreciate no BS in return (but that's not the green light to be a dick, lol).

 

It's long and I've tried to break it up into sub sections. All I ask is that you appreciate I'm not a mug and I know my woman so believe what I say about her and don't think I'm deluded. Thx.

 

 

WHY WE SPLIT

She split partly because she felt we weren't going anywhere - I proposed 3 years ago but hadn't got her a ring (for various reasons) - but mainly because 6 months into our relationship, when she was 39, she got pregnant and I reacted badly. She miscarried a month later. Whenever she thinks about the baby and my rejection of her she breaks down.

 

On top of this, she's been let down all her life by men (her dad, ex hubby etc) so she feels that men use her and only see her as a casual relationship. She met me and as we never moved in (various reasons) and the ring never materialised she thought I was like all the rest.

 

EG: she broke up with me August 2010 for 2 months. I left it 10 days before going to see her. Her opening words were "I thought you'd forgotten about me" - translation: "I thought my fears were true and you don't care about me".

 

There’s other things such as she felt I treated her badly when I didn’t. See why I said I bet you haven't dealt with anything like this?

 

 

 

WEEK 1 ATTEMPTED RECONCILIATION

We broke up July 30th I went round the week after and had a brief talk but had I followed it up, I wouldn't be here now. The NO CONTACT rule doesn't work with her as it just confirms her fears that she isn't loved. I missed her and late September I made contact via text and she said "go away, I'm seeing someone and want it to work". This sweetest woman I'd known was a bitch, it seems.

 

 

OCT 2 - SUNDAY

I went round and did the whole "love" speech and discovered that she wasn't being a cow but as she still loved me when we split, the easiest thing was to ignore me. This meeting went well as she clearly loved me. We kissed. She looked at me with her eyes of love, stroked my hand like she used to and was very intimate. And she ain't Meryl Streep - it was genuine.

 

She told me about new guy (been seeing him 7 weeks) and it smacked of a rebound:

a) met him just 2 weeks after me when she was still in love with me

b) had known him 20 years yet never felt anything for him (though he always had a thing for her)

c) didn't even want to go out with him when he asked her.

d) was moving very fast and within 4 weeks she'd told him she loved him (after he told her)

e) kept saying he adores her, he'd never hurt her. The thing she ALWAYS felt missing from her relationships he was giving her in spades - no doubt she was intoxicated.

f) she never talked about his qualities she was attracted to - only that he lavished her with attention.

 

I asked about us and she said, most tellingly: "my heart says yes but my head says no". That was major, I believed, as the love was there and the head can always be convinced and so I left asking for a talk to see if we can reconcile.

 

 

OCT 4 - TUESDAY

I went round for a 5 min friendly chat and to generate good vibes for me but she started about "us" and tried to back out of that reconciliation talk so it turned into a 90 min heavy talk. I asked if she loved me and she dodged for a bit with "I'll always care for you" when I put her on the spot, her defences came down, she looked at me longingly and in a similar tone of voice said "yes, yes I love you". Her argument against having that talk was that her friends & family all hate me because of the pregnancy, she doesn't want to 2 time new guy, doesn't want to risk ending a new relationship it for one she feels may fail again and she's worried she can't get over the miscarriage.

 

She delayed the talk with "I need time" and when I asked her to be straight with me if we were over she stuck to "I don’t know. I need time. I'm torn". As I left, I got 2 kisses (no tongues but sensual lip action).

 

 

OCT 8 - SUNDAY

I popped round just to show my face and we ended up in another hour long serious talk and she was again backing away despite admitting she loved me and despite kissing me as she saw me out.

 

 

OCT 9 - MONDAY

Terrible! We had a friendly phone call when all her resentment about the baby came out. She was crying and I raced over. We had a blazing row. She was screaming at me to get out and that that she can only depend on herself as no man will look after her

 

As I left I asked her if we were over for good (I assumed we were) yet even then, in all that anger, she didn’t accept. She still stuck with “I don’t know. I need time” Again, that seemed a result because most people in that state would say “yes” - be it the truth she's been holding back or just to spite.

 

Up to this point, I’d come on strong in these talks (against the advice of the "how to win your ex back" sites) because she confessed she loved me and knowing she feels under pressure from her friends & family, as well as always seeking to avoid conflict (family + new guy) I believed she wanted me but was too scared so I was trying to help her through. I was also showing her with actions and not just words (which was always one of her criticisms of me).

 

 

OCT 17TH + ONWARDS

I wrote 2 letters (Oct 17th and Oct 24th) as I didn't want to harass her by keep turning up at her door unannounced nd she ignored both. When asked she said she was just trying to get on with her life. I then did something silly on Friday 28th Oct - I bought the engagement ring she always believed I never would. I did it because she was putting off the talk and so would never see that I was ready to back up my words with actions.

 

She returned it on Sunday 30th Oct. At the same time we talked a little and she mentioned again how she feels the resentment over the baby and that we wouldn’t work out.

 

I asked her if she’d break off with this guy for us, she said “no”, and I asked if she’d have a two week break from him for us, again she said “no”, Sounds bad eh? But when I asked her if she loved me and she didn’t say “no” - she said “I don’t know” - not as good as 4 weeks ago when she said “yes” but at least it wasn’t “no”. And she still didn’t close the door on us despite me asking. She stuck with “I don’t know, maybe”. In all her answers she was genuine.

 

In the end I let her leave as we’d talked to death over the previous 4 weeks. I sent her a nice email and she replied back warmly - though with an ominous note about how she always had doubts about us. I replied that the doubts were because we never moved in, never appeased her fear I was treating her casually. I also asked 3 questions I forgot to ask:

 

1) How can you not know if you love someone or not?

2) What’s changed from 4 weeks ago when you admitted you did love me?

3) Were you genuine about the chance of us or was that a polite way of saying we’re over for good?

 

She replied saying she is too weary to answer and that she felt I was cornering her and not helping her stress levels. She still didn’t shut the door and said “I honestly don’t know what the future holds, I’m just trying to live day by day and need some normality for now”.

 

And this is where I am now. It's been a long time getting here, lol!

 

The cynic in me sees a constant pattern of rejection

* She refused that talk.

* She ended each of what she thought were parting emails with "take care" - ie: goodbye.

* She refused to break up with him.

* She refused to spend "friendly" time with me.

* Despite saying things that leave the door open she includes ominous comments about "us", like in her last email, and saying there are reasons why we won't work - ie: her mind's made up & not contemplating the options open to us.

 

 

The optimist in me sees a woman who love me and is torn:

* She admitted she loved me & her body language showed she wasn't lying.

* She's scared of what friends & family would say and admits approval is important to her.

* She's scared of leaving a relationship that's started well, in order to come back to me, in case we fail (again).

* She never closed the door despite me giving her chances and asking her straight.

* She never closed the door during that row when anyone else would have bitten my hand off. She actually controlled her boiling anger to say “I don’t know, I need time” which was amazing. Not what you’d expect from someone who really doesn’t want you.

* She does love me and is telling the truth when she says she doesn't know what to think or what the future holds and that there is a chance for us.

 

 

 

SUMMARY

As much as I've identified the times she was genuine, I really don't know anymore. I think she loves me but is unwilling to act on it, especially whilst her current relationship is going okay.

 

What are your impressions? Does she love me and there' hope? What's the meaning of "I don't know" when I asked if she loves me and when 3 weeks earlier it was "yes"? If she doesn't know, why follow up with "it's possible to love two people"?

 

Was she fair in not answering my 3 questions or was she avoiding? If she's not interested then why not tell me straight?

Am I over valuing the fact she never took any opportunity to confirm she closed the door?

 

Have I blown it with my actions? I tried to help as she was keen when she saw me but backing away when I wasn't there - classic MY girlfriend.

 

And what do I do now? It's now been 3 months since we split and 2.5 since she met him, the guy she never fancied and didn't even want to go out with. The longer I leave it the more she falls for him and the more I'm left like chopped liver. Do I tell her we're through and give her a kick up the backside?

Edited November 3, 2011 by 1mp

[HeartOfAPhoenix]

Move on and go NC with her. If she comes back then she comes back and if not you won't be wasting any more time on her than you already have.

 

 

Your constant contact with this woman could be pushing this "rebound relationship" into something with a very long shelf life. She is constantly reminded of you and in a sense you are giving her the cake and letting her eat. Right now she has the satisfaction of her new guy and the company of you.

 

 

No contact with her and focus on improving yourself.

[Space Ritual]

There is no hope.

 

1. WTF were you doing proposing to her and after 3 years not getting a ring? That action alone would make most women want to explore other options.

 

2. Your subsequent "Mr. Milquetoast" routine has done you no favors. The whole pleading thing after the breakup made you look very desperate on top of that. You can't "nice" somebody back into a relationship, especially after leaving them hanging for 3 years.

 

3. I suggest you simply give it up and move on. You have appeared nothing short of weak throughout this. women do not like weak. any chance of reconciliation was lost when you went into the milquetoast "bargaining phase"

[Space Ritual]

See why I said I bet you haven't dealt with anything like this?

 

 

 

You are hardly unique..... Mr. Milquetoasts come here all the time....

[1mp]

Thx for the replies. To Space Ritual, you've got things wrong but fair enough, you don't know me from Adam. To answer your questions:

 

1) None of your business.

 

2) I never pleaded nor did I do Mr Milquetoasts. "Meek, timid, unassertive" - LOL, you really don't know me or how it went down! I am anything but.

 

I admit there was desperation in buying the ring but I only did so after 3.5 weeks, because she thought I wasn't serious about marrying her & because she doubted what was being said about being there for her and taking on the world together, saying "I need action, not words". That was the big stumbling block - her incorrect belief I wasn't serious & she'd waste her time.

 

(I've plenty of info about her incorrect beliefs but my OP was already long enough)

 

I know I said I did the "Love speech" thing but not in the way you've probably perceived it. I did it with confidence and authority - and she pounced all over me. I know how being weak, needy & begging is a turn off. Nor did I try and "nice" her or bargain. I know my post was long but please don't skip chunks and assume based on what others in the past have done.

 

3) I concede the letters may have appeared needy but I only wrote them because we kept descending into long, emotionally draining talks - which isn't good for trying to get her back - and much of what was said was lost. The letters never begged - just addressed beliefs & issues, recapped her admitting to loving me and she should act on it (I know you can't reason with emotion but threw it in anyway) and ratified my stance (with authority not "I'll do anything for you, pwease don't weave me! I wuv you!"

 

Appearing needy or not, I concede they were too much and gave her no space as we had talks on 2nd, 4th & 8th Oct followed by the two letters on 17th & 24th. FWIW, I only wanted the first talk and then to wait but she started the other 2 talks. Also, the 2nd letter was only 1/2 a page - sent because she was reading a book on "love" and the next chapter summed her up so I put it in and sent it, figuring it would get more credence when backed up by the book.

 

If you want any more info, feel free to ask but Milquetoast, no. Yes I came on strong - and again, her main fear was that I was never serious about her, never willing to fight for her so here I was, fighting. But bland, timed, unassertive? LOL! I went too far the other way!

 

As for never seeing this before, I was referring to her and her miscarriage resentment that she'd been fighting - not me - so again, please don't twist and misassume Thx.

Edited November 3, 2011 by 1mp

[1mp]

Move on and go NC with her. If she comes back then she comes back and if not you won't be wasting any more time on her than you already have.

Yeah, I was thinking that. I was thinking of closing the door myself - especially if she really mean it's over for good despite refusing to say so and because our last conversation (when she handed the ring back - not saying "no" by the way but "I can't accept right now") ended with me waiting for her to come back, which did look needy I admit, Space - but that would be a no no right? And probably come across like I'm acting out of hurt, which isn't an attractive trait?

 

 

Your constant contact with this woman could be pushing this "rebound relationship" into something with a very long shelf life.

Yes. Or at least making her forget the good memories and missing me (she admitted she did) and replacing them with stress & hurt of the past few weeks.

 

 

She is constantly reminded of you and in a sense you are giving her the cake and letting her eat. Right now she has the satisfaction of her new guy and the company of you.

She hasn't even got that as she's not seen me bar for those talks but I know what you mean so thanks for that.

 

 

No contact with her and focus on improving yourself.

Yes. She helped. I had put on weight with her and I dropped 14 pounds in 2 weeks and am looking really good now.

 

 

You made some very good points Heart. If you don't mind, could you address the questions in my summary? These are the ones that are doing my head in. It's bad enough losing her but not knowing is worse and preventing me from moving on.

 

One thing I'd like you to do is believe me where I've stated her position (eg: she meant it when she said she loved me). I've admitted what I'm uncertain about but at no stage did I get the impression she was lying or holding so I've not been played. At worst she may have been reluctant to face up to the truth but she wasn't premeditated.

 

 

Cheers.

Edited November 3, 2011 by 1mp

[oldguy]

Hi guys, I'm new and I need your help. I'm a straight talker so appreciate no BS in return (but that's not the green light to be a dick, lol).

 

It's long and I've tried to break it up into sub sections. All I ask is that you appreciate I'm not a mug and I know my woman so believe what I say about her and don't think I'm deluded. Thx.

 

 

WHY WE SPLIT

She split partly because she felt we weren't going anywhere - I proposed 3 years ago but hadn't got her a ring (for various reasons) - but mainly because 6 months into our relationship, when she was 39, she got pregnant and I reacted badly. She miscarried a month later. Whenever she thinks about the baby and my rejection of her she breaks down.

 

On top of this, she's been let down all her life by men (her dad, ex hubby etc) so she feels that men use her and only see her as a casual relationship. She met me and as we never moved in (various reasons) and the ring never materialised she thought I was like all the rest.

 

EG: she broke up with me August 2010 for 2 months. I left it 10 days before going to see her. Her opening words were "I thought you'd forgotten about me" - translation: "I thought my fears were true and you don't care about me".

 

There’s other things such as she felt I treated her badly when I didn’t. See why I said I bet you haven't dealt with anything like this?

This is a matter of opinion then? She believes you treated her badly & you don't see it that why. Until that is resolved her & feelings of being wronged are resolved there is an issue. Her feelings of being wronged are the first issue & the road to resolution is to acknowledge she feels that way & try to understand what made her feel that way in a none combative way. Only then can you move on to the business of the issue at hand.

 

You will never make someone feel better by simply telling them they don't feel bad... or their silly to feel the way they do.

 

 

 

 

WEEK 1 ATTEMPTED RECONCILIATION

We broke up July 30th I went round the week after and had a brief talk but had I followed it up, I wouldn't be here now. The NO CONTACT rule doesn't work with her as it just confirms her fears that she isn't loved. I missed her and late September I made contact via text and she said "go away, I'm seeing someone and want it to work". This sweetest woman I'd known was a bitch, it seems.

 

 

OCT 2 - SUNDAY

I went round and did the whole "love" speech and discovered that she wasn't being a cow but as she still loved me when we split, the easiest thing was to ignore me. This meeting went well as she clearly loved me. We kissed. She looked at me with her eyes of love, stroked my hand like she used to and was very intimate. And she ain't Meryl Streep - it was genuine.

 

She told me about new guy (been seeing him 7 weeks) and it smacked of a rebound:

a) met him just 2 weeks after me when she was still in love with me

b) had known him 20 years yet never felt anything for him (though he always had a thing for her)

c) didn't even want to go out with him when he asked her.

d) was moving very fast and within 4 weeks she'd told him she loved him (after he told her)

e) kept saying he adores her, he'd never hurt her. The thing she ALWAYS felt missing from her relationships he was giving her in spades - no doubt she was intoxicated.

f) she never talked about his qualities she was attracted to - only that he lavished her with attention.

 

I asked about us and she said, most tellingly: "my heart says yes but my head says no". That was major, I believed, as the love was there and the head can always be convinced and so I left asking for a talk to see if we can reconcile.

 

 

OCT 4 - TUESDAY

I went round for a 5 min friendly chat and to generate good vibes for me but she started about "us" and tried to back out of that reconciliation talk so it turned into a 90 min heavy talk. I asked if she loved me and she dodged for a bit with "I'll always care for you" when I put her on the spot, her defences came down, she looked at me longingly and in a similar tone of voice said "yes, yes I love you". Her argument against having that talk was that her friends & family all hate me because of the pregnancy, she doesn't want to 2 time new guy, doesn't want to risk ending a new relationship it for one she feels may fail again and she's worried she can't get over the miscarriage.

 

She delayed the talk with "I need time" and when I asked her to be straight with me if we were over she stuck to "I don’t know. I need time. I'm torn". As I left, I got 2 kisses (no tongues but sensual lip action).

 

 

OCT 8 - SUNDAY

I popped round just to show my face and we ended up in another hour long serious talk and she was again backing away despite admitting she loved me and despite kissing me as she saw me out.

 

 

OCT 9 - MONDAY

Terrible! We had a friendly phone call when all her resentment about the baby came out. She was crying and I raced over. We had a blazing row. She was screaming at me to get out and that that she can only depend on herself as no man will look after her

 

As I left I asked her if we were over for good (I assumed we were) yet even then, in all that anger, she didn’t accept. She still stuck with “I don’t know. I need time” Again, that seemed a result because most people in that state would say “yes” - be it the truth she's been holding back or just to spite.

 

Up to this point, I’d come on strong in these talks (against the advice of the "how to win your ex back" sites) because she confessed she loved me and knowing she feels under pressure from her friends & family, as well as always seeking to avoid conflict (family + new guy) I believed she wanted me but was too scared so I was trying to help her through. I was also showing her with actions and not just words (which was always one of her criticisms of me).

 

 

OCT 17TH + ONWARDS

I wrote 2 letters (Oct 17th and Oct 24th) as I didn't want to harass her by keep turning up at her door unannounced nd she ignored both. When asked she said she was just trying to get on with her life. I then did something silly on Friday 28th Oct - I bought the engagement ring she always believed I never would. I did it because she was putting off the talk and so would never see that I was ready to back up my words with actions.

 

She returned it on Sunday 30th Oct. At the same time we talked a little and she mentioned again how she feels the resentment over the baby and that we wouldn’t work out.

 

I asked her if she’d break off with this guy for us, she said “no”, and I asked if she’d have a two week break from him for us, again she said “no”, Sounds bad eh? But when I asked her if she loved me and she didn’t say “no” - she said “I don’t know” - not as good as 4 weeks ago when she said “yes” but at least it wasn’t “no”. And she still didn’t close the door on us despite me asking. She stuck with “I don’t know, maybe”. In all her answers she was genuine.

 

In the end I let her leave as we’d talked to death over the previous 4 weeks. I sent her a nice email and she replied back warmly - though with an ominous note about how she always had doubts about us. I replied that the doubts were because we never moved in, never appeased her fear I was treating her casually. I also asked 3 questions I forgot to ask:

 

1) How can you not know if you love someone or not?

2) What’s changed from 4 weeks ago when you admitted you did love me?

3) Were you genuine about the chance of us or was that a polite way of saying we’re over for good?

 

She replied saying she is too weary to answer and that she felt I was cornering her and not helping her stress levels. She still didn’t shut the door and said “I honestly don’t know what the future holds, I’m just trying to live day by day and need some normality for now”.

 

It is not uncommon to love someone, especially someone you've been with for a long time, but not be 'in love with them'. It's also possible to love someone while not even liking them.

 

And this is where I am now. It's been a long time getting here, lol!

 

The cynic in me sees a constant pattern of rejection

* She refused that talk.

* She ended each of what she thought were parting emails with "take care" - ie: goodbye.

* She refused to break up with him.

* She refused to spend "friendly" time with me.

* Despite saying things that leave the door open she includes ominous comments about "us", like in her last email, and saying there are reasons why we won't work - ie: her mind's made up & not contemplating the options open to us.

 

 

The optimist in me sees a woman who love me and is torn:

* She admitted she loved me & her body language showed she wasn't lying.

* She's scared of what friends & family would say and admits approval is important to her.

* She's scared of leaving a relationship that's started well, in order to come back to me, in case we fail (again).

* She never closed the door despite me giving her chances and asking her straight.

* She never closed the door during that row when anyone else would have bitten my hand off. She actually controlled her boiling anger to say “I don’t know, I need time” which was amazing. Not what you’d expect from someone who really doesn’t want you.

* She does love me and is telling the truth when she says she doesn't know what to think or what the future holds and that there is a chance for us.

 

 

 

SUMMARY

As much as I've identified the times she was genuine, I really don't know anymore. I think she loves me but is unwilling to act on it, especially whilst her current relationship is going okay.

 

What are your impressions? Does she love me and there' hope? What's the meaning of "I don't know" when I asked if she loves me and when 3 weeks earlier it was "yes"? If she doesn't know, why follow up with "it's possible to love two people"?

 

Was she fair in not answering my 3 questions or was she avoiding? If she's not interested then why not tell me straight?

Am I over valuing the fact she never took any opportunity to confirm she closed the door?

 

Have I blown it with my actions? I tried to help as she was keen when she saw me but backing away when I wasn't there - classic MY girlfriend.

 

And what do I do now? It's now been 3 months since we split and 2.5 since she met him, the guy she never fancied and didn't even want to go out with. The longer I leave it the more she falls for him and the more I'm left like chopped liver. Do I tell her we're through and give her a kick up the backside?

I think you need to stop trying to imagine how she feels; about this other guy & about you. Your only creating scenarios in your mind.

It's been 3 months & in reality "you" are the other guy now. This relationship needed counselling as far back as her pregnancy & your bad reaction to it but at least back to the miscarriage. A lot of time people just feel it is easier to build new than to keep trying to rebuild. Again; when someone tells you their hurt it is counter productive to tell them they are not. Best wishes to you

Edited November 3, 2011 by oldguy

[1mp]

I think you need to stop trying to imagine how she feels; about this other guy & about you. Your only creating scenarios in your mind.

It's been 3 months & in reality "you" are the other guy now. This relationship needed counselling as far back as her pregnancy & your bad reaction to it but at least back to the miscarriage. A lot of time people just feel it is easier to build new than to keep trying to rebuild. Again; when someone tells you their hurt it is counter productive to tell them they are not. Best wishes to you

 

Thx for your thoughst OG. To be fair, I didn't tell her she wasn't hurting - I acknowledged it and actually wanted a heart to heart talk where we both explain our feelings and our hurt (especially since our reconciliation talk last year as we both wanted to move on together but felt the other didn't). I also discussed counselling as we never did talk. But you're right, it should have happened ages ago.

 

Regarding her feelings about me, I can only go off what she tells me and her body language. That's why I haven't let go. When I first went to see her, I would have walked away for good had she said she didn't love me. Unfortunately she did say she loved me, and then admitted she was scared we'd fail and that her heart says yes but her head says no. That's the only reason why I stuck about - not simply because I was hurting.

 

As for him, yeah I am assuming but I think the facts would sound alarm bells in most people as being a rebound.

 

Fancy a pop at my questions I am lost over? Another important thing is I know I need to NC now but as she admitted there'd be no issues if we had a baby and feels her time has passed. I've wanted one with her for 2 years and have found some great news: there's a 34% chance of success via icsi. But to tell her I have to break NC and I can't wait 6 months as she is 44.

Edited November 3, 2011 by 1mp

[Space Ritual]

Thx for the replies. To Space Ritual, you've got things wrong but fair enough, you don't know me from Adam. To answer your questions:

 

1) None of your business.

 

2) I never pleaded nor did I do Mr Milquetoasts. "Meek, timid, unassertive" - LOL, you really don't know me or how it went down! I am anything but.

 

I admit there was desperation in buying the ring but I only did so after 3.5 weeks, because she thought I wasn't serious about marrying her & because she doubted what was being said about being there for her and taking on the world together, saying "I need action, not words". That was the big stumbling block - her incorrect belief I wasn't serious & she'd waste her time.

 

(I've plenty of info about her incorrect beliefs but my OP was already long enough)

 

I know I said I did the "Love speech" thing but not in the way you've probably perceived it. I did it with confidence and authority - and she pounced all over me. I know how being weak, needy & begging is a turn off. Nor did I try and "nice" her or bargain. I know my post was long but please don't skip chunks and assume based on what others in the past have done.

 

3) I concede the letters may have appeared needy but I only wrote them because we kept descending into long, emotionally draining talks - which isn't good for trying to get her back - and much of what was said was lost. The letters never begged - just addressed beliefs & issues, recapped her admitting to loving me and she should act on it (I know you can't reason with emotion but threw it in anyway) and ratified my stance (with authority not "I'll do anything for you, pwease don't weave me! I wuv you!"

 

Appearing needy or not, I concede they were too much and gave her no space as we had talks on 2nd, 4th & 8th Oct followed by the two letters on 17th & 24th. FWIW, I only wanted the first talk and then to wait but she started the other 2 talks. Also, the 2nd letter was only 1/2 a page - sent because she was reading a book on "love" and the next chapter summed her up so I put it in and sent it, figuring it would get more credence when backed up by the book.

 

If you want any more info, feel free to ask but Milquetoast, no. Yes I came on strong - and again, her main fear was that I was never serious about her, never willing to fight for her so here I was, fighting. But bland, timed, unassertive? LOL! I went too far the other way!

 

As for never seeing this before, I was referring to her and her miscarriage resentment that she'd been fighting - not me - so again, please don't twist and misassume Thx.

 

I did not misassume anything. I read your post three times...the mere fact that you forewarned us all about being dicks shows that there is a vast difference between what you want to hear(which is what you came here looking for) and what you needed to hear. You are not ready for my less than eloquent brand of advice, and that's ok... If its any consolation you probably would stand a better chance of successfully healing if you would just go no contact with her and do a 180. I mean nothing else has worked has it? Good Luck:)

[CarrieT]

And what do I do now? It's now been 3 months since we split and 2.5 since she met him, the guy she never fancied and didn't even want to go out with. The longer I leave it the more she falls for him and the more I'm left like chopped liver. Do I tell her we're through and give her a kick up the backside?

 

Leave her alone and go no contact.

 

Why tell her you are through? She knows it and has moved on. The fact that she "never fancied and didn't want to go out with him" is irrelevant and has nothing to do with you now. Her motivations for moving on are obvious based on your history but with whom and how should not be part of the equation; you have no idea what their relationship is and where the connection might have occurred between them now.

 

You aren't chopped liver - but you are an ineffective partner who acted irresponsibly while in the relationship. She sees that now and has moved on herself. Learn the lessons and move and treat your next girlfriend better.

[1mp]

I did not misassume anything. I read your post three times...the mere fact that you forewarned us all about being dicks shows that there is a vast difference between what you want to hear

Clearly you did misassume as you got me all wrong about how I acted but thanks for the follow up message anyway. The comment about dicks was only because when i say I like straight talk some people take that as the greeen light to go OTT.

[1mp]

Why tell her you are through? She knows it and has moved on.

Yeah but has she? She told me she still loved me, that her heart said yes but her head said no, and that though she loved me was scared we'd fail again which is why she won't end it wit this guy but that I have to wait and see how it pans out. When we discussed the engagement I asked, half jokingly, if she'd accept if I turned up with a ring and her heart leaped in her chest and she had to resist saying 'yes'.

 

 

You aren't chopped liver - but you are an ineffective partner who acted irresponsibly while in the relationship. She sees that now and has moved on herself. Learn the lessons and move and treat your next girlfriend better.

Sorry dude but you're in no position to cast that judgement. You have no idea about me as a partner or if and how irresponsible I reacted so you'll understand why I'm going to dismis syour comment about treating others better.

[1mp]

As for her heart leaping about marriage - I didn't dream it. I saw it.

 

 

So general consensus is to go NC but can anyone take a shot at the questions I asked in the summary and the ;ositive/negative view I listed just before it?

 

 

there is a vast difference between what you want to hear(which is what you came here looking for) and what you needed to hear.

I came here looking for the answers to my questions that have so far been overlooked, lol!

Edited November 3, 2011 by 1mp

[ChelseaLS]

WOW. Okay so I will be honest and say if I were in her situation and you were doing all this... I would be running the other way. The whole buying an engagement ring after the break up.. that would just piss me off that it took a break up to get you to commit.

The letters, that doesn't bug me. I like letters, I find they are a good way (if written properly) to get it all out at once in a clear way.

You need to give her space. Stop pestering her about what she wants, and how she feesl, if there is a future.. she is clearly not sure, but the more you bug her about it, the faster the answer of "no I don't want to be with you" will come.

This new guy is probably a rebound, but that is not your concern.

[immitable]

I came here looking for the answers to my questions that have so far been overlooked, lol!

 

 

The answer is go No Contact immediately and dissapear.

 

People want what they can't have as simple as that.

If she is convinced she can't have you she may slowly start turning towards you.

[ChelseaLS]

The answer is go No Contact immediately and dissapear.

 

People want what they can't have as simple as that.

If she is convinced she can't have you she may slowly start turning towards you.

 

 

I like it.

"If she is convinced she can't have you she may slowly start turning towards"

[1mp]

WOW. Okay so I will be honest and say if I were in her situation and you were doing all this... I would be running the other way. The whole buying an engagement ring after the break up.. that would just piss me off that it took a break up to get you to commit.

The letters, that doesn't bug me. I like letters, I find they are a good way (if written properly) to get it all out at once in a clear way. You need to give her space. Stop pestering her about what she wants, and how she feesl, if there is a future.. she is clearly not sure, but the more you bug her about it, the faster the answer of "no I don't want to be with you" will come.

This new guy is probably a rebound, but that is not your concern.

 

Thx for your reply. Just to clarify, there wasn't a commitment issue at my end with regards to getting a ring earlier. But I understand everything else you say.

 

 

The answer is go No Contact immediately and dissapear.

 

People want what they can't have as simple as that.

If she is convinced she can't have you she may slowly start turning towards you.

Fair enough. Guess I'm not going to get my answers They are just so brain f&*king! As much as I love her, I could let go if I knew she didn't love/want me but the not knowing is driving me crazy.

 

One other thing, I'd been researching for ages about IVF methods and found one with a good success rate with 40+ women and she says there'd be no issue if we'd tried again. (for the record, I agreed 2.5 yrs ago to a baby but that's another story). She feels she's missed her chance but this option reopens the door. Time is of the essence at 44 so what do I do? If I go NC then I can't pass on this info but if I tell her then I'm not giving her space.

Edited November 3, 2011 by 1mp

[flitzanu]

sorry, i'm actually a dick, and i stopped after the first section. you proposed, then took no action to move forward. i'd say she saw no future with you, or in you, and no sign of commitment.

 

now, your stance (again didn't read, i'll just guess ehre and you tell me i'm right) that you have done everything to convince her you're earnest, committed, etc, and how you want to marry her now, blah blah.

 

she's probably saying "too little too late" or thinking it, or "why now and not then..." yadda yadda.

 

also probably pretty angry or mad at you if you're adjusting behavior to be and do those things she wanted? yeah, resentment. means she liked you and wanted them, but now you're just being fake and she's not going to believe you.

 

my summary...she wanted committment, you didn't give it, and she's finally broken and shut you off. she didn't make this decision lightly, it was coming for a long time. i wouldn't say your chances are good after this.

 

as others said, best you cut her out and disappear. quit talking to her because you're not helping your case.

[1mp]

now, your stance (again didn't read, i'll just guess ehre and you tell me i'm right)

 

LOL, no, but thanks for your honesty.

 

 

Eagerly awaiting what to do about the IVF news. And just in case some think this is just a ploy to get her back, we discussed kids in detail last October - she wanted to but felt it was too late and that's when I started researching. It isn't a knee jerk reaction. I got the news in July and was to discuss it on our weekend away (which never happened as we split).

Edited November 3, 2011 by 1mp