daaplemet Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 (edited) She is married. We have been having an affair (of the heart, mind, and body) on and off for many years. She has small children. I don't have any but I love children and would like to have a child very soon but only in the best environment of stability and love. it would be a big adjustment to my current lifestyle of few commitments. I tell myself that a child is missing in my life and in my heart I know that I would be a great father and have a lot to share with a child provided it could be raised in a loving home. Is there any chance that I can be happy with her and her children and make an honest life for us together without destroying myself, her, and her children's lives? Money is not a concern in this picture. She loves her husband but is not in love with him, has separated from him several times and has a lot of incompatibility issues with him. I am dating someone and contemplating marriage myself but am having an insanely difficult time because of my feelings for the married woman. I realize this isn't fair to my girlfriend, please don't lecture me on it because I am honest to myself and understand the harm it is causing. I am being selfish but also trying to protect myself and solidify my best possible future. My actions may be viewed as selfish but I don't believe I have a selfish character despite this flaw. I don't like being unfaithful and hurting someone innocent and honest. It pains me greatly to do so. If the married woman was not in the picture I would probably already be married to my girlfriend. She is a great girl but we do not have the same intimate connection. Something is lacking. I would probably have a child with her and then break it off at some point, something I know instinctually is laced in selfishness and unfair. She also really wants a family herself, has a busy career which is a big priority and is probably overlooking a lot of our issues because she wants it to work this time. She herself was married before and had a really difficult break up. Nothing is perfect but love is very strong. The married woman and I have been through a lot together, pain and sorrow and intense feelings. It is not simple. I view life is incredibly short and a gift and the thought of not giving it an honest shot with this girl saddens me greatly as she means so much to me on such a deep level. I am more than old and experienced enough to know what life is about and realize that I will not find anyone that I can connect with on such a deep and meaningful level. I believe that what's holding me back is the fear of hurting everyone in the picture including myself. I have overcome many hardships in my life, financia/careerl setbacks and subsequent recoveries and successes, a difficult childhood, some big health battles that I've conquered. I have so much to appreciate in my life and finally want to share it with someone I can really connect with on an intimate level. Can it ever be simple for us? Can it work? Edited November 2, 2011 by daaplemet
IfWishesWereHorses Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 If you want to raise your kids in a home with stability and love then you'll have to find a way to nix the deception and betrayal. The two can't coexist IMO. Certainly nothing will change until the two of you actually choose to change things. If this has been going on for years what will be the catalyst for change?
Author daaplemet Posted November 2, 2011 Author Posted November 2, 2011 If you want to raise your kids in a home with stability and love then you'll have to find a way to nix the deception and betrayal. The two can't coexist IMO. Certainly nothing will change until the two of you actually choose to change things. If this has been going on for years what will be the catalyst for change? Change will come from her coming to terms with the fatal problems in the marriage, ideally with me not influencing her decisions directly. If we got together as a couple there would be no more betrayal of any kind. Only honesty and trust.
IfWishesWereHorses Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 Unfortunately, honesty and trust have more to do with the individuals, than an attraction. You are either honest and trustworthy or you are not. Those aren't qualities that are based on circumstance. Also, you only have control over one person in the relationship, and people can be, well... selfish sometimes.
michelangelo Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 Until you live an honorable life you cannot consider yourself to be husband and parent material. You're with one woman and hittin it with a married woman who has children. Marriage is not playing house. Parenting is a huge thing that involves being a role model for the children to emulate. Can you say you are behaving in a way that a child should look up to? Would the woman you are dating want to marry you if she knew you have someone else on the side?
Author daaplemet Posted November 2, 2011 Author Posted November 2, 2011 (edited) Until you live an honorable life you cannot consider yourself to be husband and parent material. You're with one woman and hittin it with a married woman who has children. Marriage is not playing house. Parenting is a huge thing that involves being a role model for the children to emulate. Can you say you are behaving in a way that a child should look up to? Would the woman you are dating want to marry you if she knew you have someone else on the side? It would be much different if the MW and I got together. The deception would end immediately. This behavior has not been my life's pattern. It is only with this woman that I have strayed from monogamy. She and I have tried to stay out of each other's lives for years only to be pulled back at various times. She and I both want stable, calm and peaceful lives. We do not actively seek this enormous disruption. There must be something good underpinning those feelings. Something that is pure and worth exploring. I realize that for this to have any shot we both need to end things independently of each other. Start by minimizing any further harm to the innocents. Edited November 2, 2011 by daaplemet
frozensprouts Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 Change will come from her coming to terms with the fatal problems in the marriage, ideally with me not influencing her decisions directly. If we got together as a couple there would be no more betrayal of any kind. Only honesty and trust. I know it's hard, but try ad take a step back ad look at your situation objectively. Let's say your married woman is telling you the truth about her marriage ans she decides to leave her husband and start a life with you. How would that look? Do you really feel that there would be any honesty and trust? You are both lying to your significant others...does this sound like the types of actions that are "honorable, trustworthy, honest"? If you want a opinion, I would end things with your girlfriend who you say you don't really foresee a viable future with. You are doing her no favors by keeping her 'hanging on". I would also tell the married woman that you are seeing that you want to have a future with her, and if that isn't going to happen, then you are going to walk away. You want more tha assurnces that her marriage is ending, you want action. I would also insist that she let her husband in on the secret and let him decide what he wants to do. Maybe the marriage really is over, and they'll split up and you two can be together, maybe there is more to the marriage than what you think, and they'll stay together and you'll have to move on. Either way, at least with him "in the loop' the honesty that you say is so important to you will be there and there'll be no more need for deception. One word of caution though... I would take a look at the other men/women forum on here and see what the people there are going through. Your situation is not unique... many of them have "been there, done that" and can give you some useful advice about how to handle your situation. best of luck to you
michelangelo Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 There must be something good underpinning those feelings. Something that is pure and worth exploring. I am very lucky that I wasn't taking a sip of this coffee I'm drinking when I read your response. I'd have sprayed a mouthful all over the computer! You can't seriously believe what you just wrote! Good underpinning destructive behavior? Impossible.
IfWishesWereHorses Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 Some people feel the same way about cocaine or heroine. Just because it feels good, doesn't make it pure or right. Read a little on limerence. Infact it's the same area of the brain involved.
Bugz Bunny Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 "Please don't lecture me" What do you want from us to say then...maybe you want from us to say that it is great that you are f****** someone elses wife and that you are destroying an innocent man and innocent children... She loves her husband but is not in love with him She doesn't love her husband because she is in an affair with you for many years and she is in affair fog... I don't like being unfaithful and hurting someone innocent and honest. It pains me greatly to do so. Oh and it doesn't pain you to hurt someone innocent like her husband or her children because if it were so you would stop with this affair long time ago... Can it ever be simple for us? Can it work? No it can't work because you are destroying an innocent family so that you can be happy...
Author daaplemet Posted November 2, 2011 Author Posted November 2, 2011 Bugz, I asked you not to lecture me because I agree with everything you have said and wanted to save you the effort of repeating things that I understand and agree with. Let me ask another question, or maybe just pose it differently- if she leaves her husband, and if I break it off with my gf, and we are both single because we ended relationships that were not right for either of us, can we ever be happy together? Does anyone think this is possible?
Bugz Bunny Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 Bugz, I asked you not to lecture me because I agree with everything you have said and wanted to save you the effort of repeating things that I understand and agree with. Let me ask another question, or maybe just pose it differently- if she leaves her husband, and if I break it off with my gf, and we are both single because we ended relationships that were not right for either of us, can we ever be happy together? Does anyone think this is possible? No because your relationship started as an affair...this relationship started with betrayal and deceit and it already hurt innocent people... Let me ask you something...Can you really be happy in life knowing that you destroyed someone elses family ? Can you live with this woman and look her children in the eyes every day knowing that you are the cause that their family is destoyed and that they can't see their father everyday as usual because of you...Can you really be happy knowing that ...???
Author daaplemet Posted November 2, 2011 Author Posted November 2, 2011 (edited) No because your relationship started as an affair...this relationship started with betrayal and deceit and it already hurt innocent people... Let me ask you something...Can you really be happy in life knowing that you destroyed someone elses family ? Can you live with this woman and look her children in the eyes every day knowing that you are the cause that their family is destoyed and that they can't see their father everyday as usual because of you...Can you really be happy knowing that ...??? I'm not quite sure that is the case Bugz. They were separated before I was even in the picture or living in the same city. I was living in Oakland at the time and didn't even know her. Clearly there were relationship issues before I was in the picture. Not that I am helping things now of course but it seems like this was a relationship not meant to last for reasons other than yours truly. Edited November 2, 2011 by daaplemet
Author daaplemet Posted November 2, 2011 Author Posted November 2, 2011 Some people feel the same way about cocaine or heroine. Just because it feels good, doesn't make it pure or right. Read a little on limerence. Infact it's the same area of the brain involved. I read up on limerence. This jumped out at me: "Nevertheless Tennov stresses that 'the most consistent result of limerence is mating, not merely sexual interaction but also commitment"
LifesontheUp Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 You posted that you have been having this affair on and off for many years. So why hasn't she left her husband and why haven't you left our gf if the relationship between the two of you is so intimate etc?
norajane Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 Not that I am helping things now of course but it seems like this was a relationship not meant to last for reasons other than yours truly. Except that it has lasted. For years. They are still married. So it would appear that you are not going to be the reason for their relationship to end, either.
Author daaplemet Posted November 2, 2011 Author Posted November 2, 2011 (edited) You posted that you have been having this affair on and off for many years. So why hasn't she left her husband and why haven't you left our gf if the relationship between the two of you is so intimate etc? Believe or not (and Bugz is going to not like this) but I had extreme feelings of guilt about breaking apart her family and never asked her to end it. We tried to stay away from each other many times but something always pulls us back. Since we met (at an industry conference out of town) I don't think I've ever been able to really have a truly deep and intimate relationship with anyone else and she hasn't been able to get over me either. Edited November 2, 2011 by daaplemet
michelangelo Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 Whatever else transpires, her children will never have any respect or affection for you, and likely haver very negative feelings about you once they know of your involvement with their mother. For life. Think about that.
anne1707 Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 Whatever else transpires, her children will never have any respect or affection for you, and likely haver very negative feelings about you once they know of your involvement with their mother. For life. Think about that. You cannot be sure of this at all. My father had an affair when I was a teenager and eventually married his OW. It was not easy at first but I can honestly say I love and respect my stepmother.
michelangelo Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 That may be true, but you would be a rare person. My cousins have nothing buy disdain for the man who kept trying to get them to call him daddy when he'd intruded on their home life. They never were comfortable.
anne1707 Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 That may be true, but you would be a rare person. My cousins have nothing buy disdain for the man who kept trying to get them to call him daddy when he'd intruded on their home life. They never were comfortable. You are talking of one example. I am talking of one example which contradicts yours. From that, it is not possible to say what will happen in the majority of cases. All that can be said is that it will vary from situation to situation.
michelangelo Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 He should not rely on anecdotes, just don't bet the farm that the likelihood that the kids would be accepting of an affair partner as a parent. Regardless, if he is serious in finding out the health professionals opinion and statistical likelihood of outcome, then he should look into it.
anne1707 Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 He should not rely on anecdotes, just don't bet the farm that the likelihood that the kids would be accepting of an affair partner as a parent. I agree. He should not rely on your anecdote just as he should not rely on mine.
2long Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 The OP has posted the cliche "I love you but I'm not in love with you." This makes sense 2 me, though it 2k me a while after my own d-day almost 10 years ago now 2 realize this. Your OW is describing the familiar love, the long-term "caring love" that she has developed for her husband over years of being married 2 him and raising kids with him. This kind of love is far more substantial than romantic love - the "in love" feelings she says she has for you. So, while I do believe it's accurate for a WS 2 say that 2 their BS (more accurate than they realize, in fact), it is also accurate if she were 2 say 2 you "I'm in love with you but I don't love you". 2 many people (most, in fact) believe that romantic love is what life is all about, and so they sacrifice everything, including and especially the promises and commitments they made 2 their sigothers (because they once believed that their romantic love for THEM was "True Love"), 2 drop everything in pursuit of True Love. You can try 2 rationalize your interference in the OW's marriage as not being important because they were separated when you met all you want, but there's simply no way you're not having a negative impact on her family and her own ability 2 make sensible choices by continuing 2 interfere. "Separated" is still "married". It's not permission 2 get involved with someone in crisis, though it's an oft-used lame excuse. -ol' 2long
Richard Friedman Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 Bugz, I asked you not to lecture me because I agree with everything you have said and wanted to save you the effort of repeating things that I understand and agree with. Let me ask another question, or maybe just pose it differently- if she leaves her husband, and if I break it off with my gf, and we are both single because we ended relationships that were not right for either of us, can we ever be happy together? Does anyone think this is possible? Do you think her kids could ever respect a man who ****ed their dad over and broke up their family? Are you delusional or something?
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