Why are good looks coveted / valued?

[PJKino]

 

Objectively speaking, I think I have generally shopped down in looks (which is pretty common for women, from studies/papers I've read). Men tend to shop up. ursued by an average Joe. Who wouldn't?

 

Theyres no evidence of that aside from a fat guy with a hot women in sitcoms which isnt real life

[jobaba]

Yes , I remember someone telling me about a girl I know who is for a fact pretty plain, maybe cute, but nothing that special. She's probably never been single for more than a month in her post-pubescent life, and thought she was too attractive for me when I tried to get with her (her personality/interests were really compatible with mine, and we deeply enjoyed each other's company). I don't care about looks within reason and she was attractive to me in her own way. Yet of course all the 6'4 blonde soccer stars at her school would hit on her for sex at parties, this makes her think she can do better.

 

Some girl who was an outside observer than commented to me when I get mad at it that "well, she's pretty, thin, and has a moody quiet mysteriousness to her" I have a thin-athletic build, the girl actually did look like my sister (people would ask if she was related to me) , and her character is bordering on aspergers. But of course, in America she is attractive and I am not, I have to be 100 times better just to be considered equal.

 

Yea. That's pretty much the way it is and it sucks.

 

But those good looking dudes will screw those girls over so many times. Cheat on them. Belittle them.

 

Maybe that makes you feel better?

[azsinglegal]

That's kind of what I already said.

 

I figure that women don't want similar, they demand better.

 

Which means trying to date women equal to me is pointless and I should be dating down...

 

What do you consider dating down? I've seen you and the girl you like, nothing of which says she's above you or you are below her.

 

What do you think "dating down" is to you? Obese? Seriously ugly? deformed?

 

Maybe you should focus on personality and making women laugh then trying to win them over?

[azsinglegal]

Yea. That's pretty much the way it is and it sucks.

 

But those good looking dudes will screw those girls over so many times. Cheat on them. Belittle them.

 

Maybe that makes you feel better?

 

Yes, because one girl isn't enough to keep their ego big so they'll need to find others to help it out.

 

My ex (who was really handsome) was on 3 dating sites, chatting up women on them, on facebook, in text...MY complimenting him was never enough, he needed constant reassurance from several women at once that he was wanted.

[somedude81]

What do you consider dating down? I've seen you and the girl you like, nothing of which says she's above you or you are below her.

 

What do you think "dating down" is to you? Obese? Seriously ugly? deformed?

 

Maybe you should focus on personality and making women laugh then trying to win them over?

Pretty much...*shrug*

 

I'm pretty funny in person, but it's just not enough.

 

BTW I got your PM and I'll do a reply when I'm out of class.

[Wolf18]

Yea. That's pretty much the way it is and it sucks.

 

But those good looking dudes will screw those girls over so many times. Cheat on them. Belittle them.

 

Maybe that makes you feel better?

 

 

To a degree it does.

 

But in the end it doesn't. I want my piece of the pie too, and I don't want the damage piece of pie these types of guys defecate when the woman finally is over the hill/grows up and begins to look for men who actually have something to offer them (and no, I'm not talking about money).

 

I'm not a nerd and I'm willing to take some womanizers sloppy seconds. Women should be held accountable for the choices they make in romance, instead of being able to start from a blank slate when they turn 30 and want to have a family/have financial stability .

[azsinglegal]

Pretty much...*shrug*

 

I'm pretty funny in person, but it's just not enough.

 

BTW I got your PM and I'll do a reply when I'm out of class.

 

Your biggest mistake is short changing yourself. Stop doing that. Seriously.

[Wolf18]

I meant that I'm not willing to take sloppy seconds* . Stupid short editting timeframe.

[ShannonMI]

I'm almost positive Marilyn Monroe would still be considered attractive today. She had somewhat wide hips in a good proportion. If she would've had a gut and been a "size 12" (I bet a size 12 in the 1960's is probably half of that today) then that would've taken points away.

 

The ideal for men has radically changed though, as women have become much more focused on looks and visual stimulation than ever before. Before in movies confidence, talent, and demeanor were more important than male looks when it came to on-screen masculinity. Would you date a lead man like the 5'5 Casablanca era Humphrey Bogart if you didn't know he was rich and famous ? I doubt it.

I might. Or I'd be more inclined to date Gene Kelly. He was short too wasn't he? He was a hell of a dancer though. That's a turn on for sure. A man with some killer moves. I always found him very attractive. Since I was a kid and watched his musicals. I actually had a crush on him.:love:

 

Paul Newman was another one who was gorgeous. Cool Hand Luke he was shirtless quite a bit and had a great body. Even in his 80's he was handsome.

 

Marilyn probably had a belly, but used corsets and girdles to hold herself in. She was a knockout though and still would be today. No doubt about it.

[OnyxSnowfall]

This is what I gather:

 

• People are born with the need to have an attraction to things and or others.
  
• The culture one lives in shapes what those attractions are or will become.
  
• Those attractions have basically nothing to do with health or otherwise.
  
• Appearance is an obvious and easy way to compare oneself among others and or others among each other (and many people are desperate to feel "superior" and or to be "accepted"; it is just an inevitable form of falsely determining/assessing "caliber")
  

 

The exchange in regards to intelligence was interesting. It's something I'm going to have to delve into deeper, because IME, the "symmetrical" people I've known have been far less intelligent/creative than the more asymmetrical ones. There may or may not be a true indication one way or the other.

 

There are heaping gobs of ways for people to "enhance" their looks and many are often at the expense of a person's TRUE health --- "natural", within America and other "more developed" countries, isn't common among females (even in their very early youth), and males are seemingly beginning to frequent the cosmetic butcher shops, follow unhealthy dieting etc, more and more as well (and some have resorted to wearing make-up too lol). Anyway, it could mean that these "symmetrical" people I've encountered have just been resorting to unnatural/unhealthy practices and were never intended to look so "symmetrical". Their efforts to enhance their looks could have been spent honing their minds and perhaps those would have been sharper, too.

 

Also, people (as children even) can encounter something within their environment that mutates their genome in an otherwise benign area --- leaving them physically blemished/altered, but with their mental faculties in tact and able to develop and function in "normal" and "healthy" ways.

 

I think there's also some kind of phenomena with people craving what's "exotic" to them, at certain points in their life-span too. Which the content of that could also then be a result of their culture/environment/experiences. Like the man that has the big-breasted woman who suddenly starts finding himself craving a woman with a small-chest or vice versa ... or the women who get giddy and all warm for a man with a "sexy accent"...

 

Ultimately (currently), good looks does not equate into health nor intelligence. And yes, bring in that "good looks" are subjective and..............

 

Measures and environmentally influenced/conditioned ...

 

Extremely valuable and worthwhile, indeed.

 

I do think it's a cop-out for people to claim their attractions to others are primarily sources of identifying "good health/intelligence/good spawning material"...............

Edited November 2, 2011 by OnyxSnowfall

[Content]

The irony coming from a women who says guys under 5'8 are unattractive and look like children to her:rolleyes:

[OnyxSnowfall]

The irony coming from a women who says guys under 5'8 are unattractive and look like children to her:rolleyes:

 

Piff I didn't state they all looked like boys to me

 

Regardless, if you had been paying attention (not that I blame you for not), it has been something that has contributed to the spurring of my insanity / recent fixation in this area. In another thread I already conceded to it likely being psychological and have been rather fascinated by the notion.

 

Alas, it's not something I've ever defended (beyond not understanding it and claiming "it is what it is") and, while I do think it can be prevailed over, I'm not going to go "test" it while I'm unavailable. I think it was a matter of drawing mental associations --- I'm not satisfied with it (and related things) remaining "unexplained".

Edited November 2, 2011 by OnyxSnowfall

[OnyxSnowfall]

I meant that I'm not willing to take sloppy seconds* . Stupid short editting timeframe.

 

What do you consider yourself then, Wolfy?

[Woggle]

I have actually found that the very attractive women are much easier to talk to than the average ones. They have dated the top 10% of men that women drool over and they know it is not what is cracked up to be. They have been there and done that and sometimes appreciate something different.

 

The average ones tend to be mad that they are average and don't have what it takes to date one of those top 10% and consider it an insult when any man outside of the group dares to breathe their air.

 

I also agree that women who were sex symbols back in the day would be considered fat today which is a shame because these anorexic sticks are not attractive at all. They look like they have no joy in life and a joyless woman is an instant turnoff.

[dasein]

Your post is well written, but I disagree with most of it. Suppose we have an "average" guy, a Plain-Jane and Angelina Jolie. Which one of these two ladies would our "average" guy be more nervous approaching and asking out?

 

I stand by what I posted previously in its entirety.

[dasein]

I can't imagine telling any of my female friends, "You can do better," if I thought their boyfriends weren't attractive.

 

Maybe you can't but it's practically a national pastime for the SATC bred generation of women, "she's too cute for him, he's too cute for her, he's not cute enough for you.... on and on and on." Despite how they bristle at number rankings, and being objectified, it's a large portion of what they sit around doing while with GFs. Men talk sports, women talk "cute." You would think this would end at HS, sadly not today.

[OnyxSnowfall]

Maybe you can't but it's practically a national pastime for the SATC bred generation of women, "she's too cute for him, he's too cute for her, he's not cute enough for you.... on and on and on." Despite how they bristle at number rankings, and being objectified, it's a large portion of what they sit around doing while with GFs. Men talk sports, women talk "cute." You would think this would end at HS, sadly not today.

 

Yeah....... quite a few older females I know have told me "you can do better, you're so pretty / much prettier!", including my grandmother , as if that is indeed what it all amounts to --- for the record, men have told me similar **** though (more things like: you must be going through desperate times; how about I help you out of them baby? [mostly the theme from ex co-workers... although there's been the odd and disrespectful encounters with random strangers while out in public with my lover... usually when he and I are being physically affectionate in some way]).

 

I can't say I'm guilty of telling other people such things though

Edited November 3, 2011 by OnyxSnowfall

[SteveC80]

Maybe you can't but it's practically a national pastime for the SATC bred generation of women, "she's too cute for him, he's too cute for her, he's not cute enough for you.... on and on and on." Despite how they bristle at number rankings, and being objectified, it's a large portion of what they sit around doing while with GFs. Men talk sports, women talk "cute." You would think this would end at HS, sadly not today.

 

 

A lot of women just like shiney pretty things/people, you're not dealing with rocket scientists here

[AHardDaysNight]

I don't necessarily agree with Woggle. I feel that there are both nice attractive and ugly women out there.

 

That being said, I've been surprised at how many attractive women have insecurity issues. Like the OP.

 

The ugly women seem to know where they stand, and are content with it.

[Woggle]

I don't necessarily agree with Woggle. I feel that there are both nice attractive and ugly women out there.

 

That being said, I've been surprised at how many attractive women have insecurity issues. Like the OP.

 

The ugly women seem to know where they stand, and are content with it.

 

They are not content with it which is why they are much more stand offish. It's similar to how people from lower economic backgrounds tend to be much more materialistic than truly wealthy people.

[OnyxSnowfall]

I don't necessarily agree with Woggle. I feel that there are both nice attractive and ugly women out there.

 

That being said, I've been surprised at how many attractive women have insecurity issues. Like the OP.

 

The ugly women seem to know where they stand, and are content with it.

 

Mm, I think everyone has some insecurities (regardless of their physique, status, appearance, wealth, etc). With that said, even insecurities knotted up within appearance usually come from a "deeper" source. I also think what's beneath two, three, four (and so forth....) insecurities that share identical or very similar surfaces can be vastly different from one another.

 

And yes, I do have my fair share of insecurities. I think there are many attached to one root (but that there are a couple of roots) but I have definitely developed mechanisms (for better and worse) that protect them from being "wounded/affected" by others - I've managed to successfully harness some of them for positive motions as well.

 

Still, I don't think one can realistically weed out every single insecurity that they carry with them (or even that is a part of them). As far as the inquiries in the OP are concerned................. they pertain to something a lot larger than little ole me :B - there's some subjective concern yes, but most are primarily from as objective a place as is humanly possible (within my limits, anyway).

 

In any case, I agree with Woggle in regards to:

 

They have dated the top 10% of men that women drool over and they know it is not what is cracked up to be.

Edited November 3, 2011 by OnyxSnowfall

[silvermercy]

Shaven armpits and legs aren't a universal ideal in the Western world. It's not the case in Greece or Spain, for example. As for ideals for women being impractical, have a look at classical statues of women. The figure is curvy, not skinny, breast sizes are around the C cup size.

 

Large breasts are mostly a result of censorship in Hollywood in the mid 20th Century which barred the exposure of breasts. Studios circumvented this by having actresses wear stiff bras that accentuated the size and shape of their breasts. Marilyn Monroe is a good example. She still had much the same curves and body fat as the classical statues portray, but had to wear a bra that exaggerated her boobs.

 

As a reference point, I don't care for huge breasts. Lots of men don't. The most recent example of a classic beauty would be Kate Winslett in her youth, IMO.

I am from Greece actually, and trust me, it's a BIG deal! lol

Edited November 3, 2011 by silvermercy

[verhrzn]

Strangely, I've never been one to require a high level of conventional physical attractiveness in the guy I'm seeing (short slightly pudgy brunettes seem to be my type) but I've always wanted the guy to be completely enamored of MY looks. I am not usually a romantic person, but I've always dreamed of being with a guy who sees me across a room and says to himself," She is so attractive I just HAVE to go talk to her." The guy that says I am the most gorgeous woman he's ever seen, etc.

 

I think, inward or outward, beauty has become tied with social value. I want a guy to see me as the most attractive woman in the room because it tells me I have worth in society. Men gain status from wealth, women gain status from their own physical beauty. If women have a partner who is wealthy, it adds to people's impression of her, and if guys have a partner who is beautiful, it increases his estimate in other people's eyes.

[Wolf18]

She said that? Ouch. So much for substance.

 

 

Hey you NEGATIVE JERK, no wonder no girls like you!!!

 

It isn't about looks, how many times do women have to tell you that it's about confidence and the heart. (as long as that heart belongs to someone 5'8 and up)

[FitChick]

it is NOT an advantage to be beautiful in the dating world, as most men are really, really intimidated by beautiful women, and hesitate greatly to approach them.

 

This reminds me of two incidents that stick in my mind, both were actresses who appeared on the Tonight Show. Raquel Welch told Johnny Carson that she spent most Saturday nights home alone making scrambled eggs. Lara Flynn Boyle, at the height of her beauty and success, told Jay Leno she almost never got asked out and then described one date a friend fixed her up on. The guy took her to In n Out Burger, barely spoke to her and then dropped her off at home. The life of a movie star!